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AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 6:24 am System.out.println("

@Seven, to clarify I'm assuming the mason thing happened in your neighborhood chat unless you're referring to something I missed.

");

No, they were obliquely suggesting it near EoD1. I noticed in my D1 reread as well but wasn't going to draw too much attention to it as there didn't seem much point unless they were in danger of elimination.

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 5:19 am

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:47 pm @seven could've sworn I answered that already. As scum, do you not want to make good reads (usually town reads) that benefits town in hopes to solidify yourself as town? With Bessie my best hope in scum reading is to identify that she is putting a significant enough less amount of effort than she would as town. This game there is enough evidence that she has been playing catching up but still adequately giving content throughout that I'm comfy with town reading from now. And it is a higher post game than usual. I am a little salty that bessie didn't put me as her top town read, but I suppose I'll be satisfied with second for now.

bessie did put you as her top Town read? Like, under herself? This is weird.

Unless. Hmm. May come back to this later.

This sort of thing. bessie had heury as top Town under only herself and heury complained about it.

I've been finding the wording in the write up confusing as well, because to me it looks like BF was protected but died protecting someone else.

I take that as he wasn't the only protection pr and may have been targeted for a kill that got stopped, but died because he protected someone else that was targeted for a kill.

So two night kill's and a day kill... that's a lot of killers. Then again, I'm not dead, so maybe Seven was lying and we just have the two nk's

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:29 amIt makes more sense if moody is otherscum

Ok, as I'm re-reading, I'm realizing that this may make more sense, and I do believe they are scum individually.

moody7277 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:50 amI figured it's been long enough that that cliche belongs to everyone now. Bessie read: +4.

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:04 am Kind of want to soul read moody and heury as Town.

LaserGuy, I'm curious why you gave Moody a soul read as town this early.

bessie wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 4:46 pmI was ok with the Mak and BoomFrog observations, I was pinged by the LaserGuy observation. And what pinged me was not because I was suspicious of LaserGuy which I already covered, but if moody was reading carefully, he too should have realized what was wrong with LaserGuy’s post. So it was a ping for what I though may have been just looking for a reason to post.

Can you elaborate more on this?

moody7277 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:07 amI too am a little weirded out that LaserGuy has me at most townie, that cuts sharply across my usual meta.

Yet Moody never factors this into his read on LaserGuy.

moody7277 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:52 am I applaud LaserGuy's effort of reading through all that, agreed with a lot he said, and award him the rank of towncore.

EGW's responses to LG have been headshake worthy, score -1.5

I think this shows that Moody isn't really trying to sort LaserGuy, and instead is simply propping him up in his towncore.

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 6:53 ammoody - I like moody's play so far this game. There's sort of an openness about his observations that I've noted when he's mafia that I don't see here. Everything comes across as very hedgy. Not much content so far, but I'm comfortable with my Town read here.

This seems weak for Moody being top town, then being second top town, in your reads list.

somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 12:29 ammoody: the strong townread on bessie early on is kind of odd, cf with the read on BoomFrog at the same time, but also seems to be just chilling

Since you agree that the early town read on Bessie was odd, talk to me. What do you think of what I've said so far? Any updated reads?

Quick post

EGW wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:18 am Moody is scum. His initial points on Bessie were too gracious, and his sudden change of read seemed disingenuous. Zeniba pushing him for seeming no solid reason, also makes the push make sense as informed. I'm going to re-read but at the moment that throws a kink in my Zen read. I admit I'm wrong on him (and by extension, Adum)

I'm not that familiar with Zeniba's play, but to me it seems unlikely that mafia would immediately start bussing, even more so when that's pretty much the only thing that slot does. Or are you suggesting the mafia teams are informed about each other?
I'll have to think more about how this push makes sense and what it means for moody.

Seven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:56 am Bluelock is who was targeted.

How do you know this?

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:17 am I think this is a game where flavor is taken into account for alignment and roles and I'm basing this on the Zeniba flip, and that likely includes safeclains. I can't speak for boomfrog because I don't know their character so if I'm being stupid and it makes no sense as a bodyguard please feel free to let me know.

I guess there is a logical connection between GERTY and a bodygaurd (I won't spoil, because y'all should totally watch Moon), but in general I don't think these connections bewteen roles and flavour will be strong enough to sus out false claims.

EGW wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:42 am Since you agree that the early town read on Bessie was odd, talk to me. What do you think of what I've said so far? Any updated reads?

Moody has become more suspicious to me, soft-backtracking on that early bessie townread multiple people commented on is not a great look, but I'm not quite finished mulling over the things that happened after I went to sleep mode.

somitomi wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 9:12 amI'm not that familiar with Zeniba's play, but to me it seems unlikely that mafia would immediately start bussing, even more so when that's pretty much the only thing that slot does. Or are you suggesting the mafia teams are informed about each other? I'll have to think more about how this push makes sense and what it means for moody.

No, I was meaning exactly that Zeniba would be too hyper aware of what her scumbuddy would be doing in thread. However, in my re-read, I've dropped this in favor of Laser. So I no longer think Zeniba was with Moody, I just think Moody is scum individually (with Laser Associatively) and just going from there.

On LaserGuy, note this post:

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:40 pm These are my general impressions so far



Vote: bessie

How do you feel on his push of Bessie? I'm going to sleep, but just asking you this as you read up yourself.

I did receive a message implying that heury is human.

Vote: heury

Heury, claim.

Bessie seems like shes straight up open wolfing to me. That post where she was encouraging George’s traitor theory. Heury being top town read.

Only thing is, i dont think she would ever kill Glue night 1. Unless on a team with someone who is insistent and objective (detached) enough to make the kill.

Theory: bessie and Adum (dissenters) vs heury and Zeniba (humans)

I took the wording of Boom being protected as he was shielded, not that he was saved. The difference being that the latter implies that he was shielded + targeted. @mods if we are supposed to know, can you tell us which you mean here?

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 6:40 am I've been finding the wording in the write up confusing as well, because to me it looks like BF was protected but died protecting someone else.

I take that as he wasn't the only protection pr and may have been targeted for a kill that got stopped, but died because he protected someone else that was targeted for a kill.

So two night kill's and a day kill... that's a lot of killers. Then again, I'm not dead, so maybe Seven was lying and we just have the two nk's

I don’t have a kill. Btw would you mind getting an avatar? Someone else requested this to I think

No, Bessie seemed genuine. Also, Bessie has this malicious tone whenever she is mafia, the last time I've noticed it was in Sumting Sumting mafia. However, I would like to see an in depth reads list from here. I think that would really help. I want you to talk to me about Moody and LaserGuy. Also I don't think Adum is scum anymore.

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 6:40 am

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 5:19 am

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:47 pm @seven could've sworn I answered that already. As scum, do you not want to make good reads (usually town reads) that benefits town in hopes to solidify yourself as town? With Bessie my best hope in scum reading is to identify that she is putting a significant enough less amount of effort than she would as town. This game there is enough evidence that she has been playing catching up but still adequately giving content throughout that I'm comfy with town reading from now. And it is a higher post game than usual. I am a little salty that bessie didn't put me as her top town read, but I suppose I'll be satisfied with second for now.

bessie did put you as her top Town read? Like, under herself? This is weird.

Unless. Hmm. May come back to this later.

This sort of thing. bessie had heury as top Town under only herself and heury complained about it.

Complaining may not be the right word.

Seven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:54 am I did receive a message implying that heury is human.

Vote: heury

Heury, claim.

Impossible

Seven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:34 pm I took the wording of Boom being protected as he was shielded, not that he was saved. The difference being that the latter implies that he was shielded + targeted. @mods if we are supposed to know, can you tell us which you mean here?

In this context being protected does not necessarily mean neither that the protection was needed nor that it was successful in preventing a kill.

madge wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:00 am And finally, the first sacrifice was chosen, raked over the proverbial coals..

Votals:
Seven - 4 - Bessie, EGW, Heury, Somi
Moody - 2 - Makhaira, Zeniba
Zeniba - 6 - Boomfrog, Seven, Adum, Moody, LaserGuy, Gluelock

Zeniba had the highest total and has been voted out.


Day 1 is over: no more posting. It is now Night 1. PM night actions to me and Sabrar (reply all your role PM). If you're in a chat, I will create your chat shortly.

Flip and deadline counter will follow in 20-30 minutes.

Some initial thoughts:

- Zeniba being on the same wagon as Mak makes them unlikely partners, I don’t see two wolfs sitting on the same wagon together like that.

-The wagon on Seven is more likely to contain scum who are working to save Zeniba. There’s a chance of bussing though, like why save a mostly inactive scum-mate?

-the boomfrog kill is weird, it says he was protected then it says he was killed. Are we to take that to mean another bodyguard protected him but then a second killer got to him? Or did he try protecting himself?

-the discussion of a 9-2-2 set up is interesting, I think it makes sense for there to be 3 factions: AI, Dissenting AI, and Human. But have we considered the possibility that Zeniba was a lone human? Flavor wise it makes sense that she was working alone and it’s actually 9-3-1.

(I’ve only really played mountainous set ups so this is a fun twist on the game the really alters how I’ll approach finding scum.)

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:33 am As for setup, 9-2-2 makes the most sense. Going back to thinking of my early interaction with Somi, I'm leaning town based on their response to me.

If Seven's claim is real and he's scum, it'd be a weird ability in a 2 scum teams game.

Seven isn’t scum, they’re too wolfy to be a wolf. You can suggest that Seven is intentionally being twtbw as a way of “hiding in plain sight” but that just descends into a wifom situation.

Simplest solution to me is Seven is harmless and just having some fun with the roles.

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:44 pm

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 6:40 am

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 5:19 am

bessie did put you as her top Town read? Like, under herself? This is weird.

Unless. Hmm. May come back to this later.

This sort of thing. bessie had heury as top Town under only herself and heury complained about it.

Complaining may not be the right word.

Seven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:54 am I did receive a message implying that heury is human.

Vote: heury

Heury, claim.

Impossible

Impossible to claim or impossible that you’re human? If the latter, our flavor cop seems to think otherwise. If the former, is it because you have some sort of amnesiac role?

System.out.println("

Seven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:34 pm Bessie seems like shes straight up open wolfing to me. That post where she was encouraging George’s traitor theory. Heury being top town read.

Only thing is, i dont think she would ever kill Glue night 1. Unless on a team with someone who is insistent and objective (detached) enough to make the kill.

Theory: bessie and Adum (dissenters) vs heury and Zeniba (humans)

I took the wording of Boom being protected as he was shielded, not that he was saved. The difference being that the latter implies that he was shielded + targeted. @mods if we are supposed to know, can you tell us which you mean here?

Why do you think the traitor theory is scummy? Why would scum Bessie that's not on a team with scum heury have an incentive to falsely townread heury so strongly?

Why is are you assuming it was Bessie's theoretical team that targeted gluelock instead of Zeniba's? What's your analysis on why I'd want to kill Gluelock and that I'd be able to convince Bessie to follow my lead?

Bluntly I don't think these points work well together and I think you've convinced yourself of Bessie scum and are working backwards to justify it, but I'm interested in your responses.
");

System.out.println("

Gluelock wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 2:17 pm
- Zeniba being on the same wagon as Mak makes them unlikely partners, I don’t see two wolfs sitting on the same wagon together like that.

That's the same wagon you asked thoughts on the possibility of being both wolves last day phase, what changed in your thought process.

-the boomfrog kill is weird, it says he was protected then it says he was killed. Are we to take that to mean another bodyguard protected him but then a second killer got to him? Or did he try protecting himself?

Given Mod's clarifications it seems like he received a protect and died anyway. Based on the info we know right now and 2 scums being likely, the most logical reason for there being a single NK is that a NK targeted them, they were protected by another player. Given that they were BG, I'm suspecting either one kill went to them and one kill went to their BG target, both kills went to their BG target, or the other kill was roleblocked/hit a BP/etc. Btw they BC'd they were guarding you, it's possible scum picked up on that and chose to target you to remove BF because he was very townie and good for collaboration.

-the discussion of a 9-2-2 set up is interesting, I think it makes sense for there to be 3 factions: AI, Dissenting AI, and Human. But have we considered the possibility that Zeniba was a lone human? Flavor wise it makes sense that she was working alone and it’s actually 9-3-1.

I don't think the 1 would be a cop though.");

Gluelock wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:56 pm

madge wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 11:53 am Some processes idled, their clock speed slowing...

Votals:
Seven - 4 - Bessie, EGW, Heury, Somi
Moody - 2 - Makhaira, Zeniba
EGW - 2 - Gluelock, Seven
Laserguy - 1 - Adum
Bessie - 1 - LaserGuy
Heury - 1 - moody


Deadline is in about 16 hours

@Seven would 2 wolves (Mak and Zen) consolidate together on a wagon like this?

@Adum

If you’re talking about this post above I was inquiring about sevens read list not actually pairing them together.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:27 pm System.out.println("

Seven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:34 pm Bessie seems like shes straight up open wolfing to me. That post where she was encouraging George’s traitor theory. Heury being top town read.

Only thing is, i dont think she would ever kill Glue night 1. Unless on a team with someone who is insistent and objective (detached) enough to make the kill.

Theory: bessie and Adum (dissenters) vs heury and Zeniba (humans)

I took the wording of Boom being protected as he was shielded, not that he was saved. The difference being that the latter implies that he was shielded + targeted. @mods if we are supposed to know, can you tell us which you mean here?

Why do you think the traitor theory is scummy? Why would scum Bessie that's not on a team with scum heury have an incentive to falsely townread heury so strongly?

Why is are you assuming it was Bessie's theoretical team that targeted gluelock instead of Zeniba's? What's your analysis on why I'd want to kill Gluelock and that I'd be able to convince Bessie to follow my lead?

Bluntly I don't think these points work well together and I think you've convinced yourself of Bessie scum and are working backwards to justify it, but I'm interested in your responses.
");

Ran I understand because he was confirmation biasing. Bessie doesn't really make those kinds of reads though. Bessie reads are x action is scummy, person does x, person is scummy. That is, they’re based purely on actions, not underlying motive speculation such as by players like Ran and me.

I suppose it is possible that bessie thinks I’m rambunctious enough to out my whole team in my opening post. But I find it puzzling that she thinks even I would do something so absurd. It seemed like she was goading Ran on.

With regard to bessie town reading heury strongly, let me ask you this: why is town!bessie reading him so strongly? There was not enough town indicative content by heury for bessie to have such a strong read so early, so that leads me to believe she has outside info about heury. The most straightforward way she has this is if they are masons, but if heury is maf that’s not so.

So in the heury scum theory, bessie either has another connection with heury in some manner that is less straightforward or her read isn’t authentic.

As for why the non-human team did the kill, I doubt both teams can kill each night. It’s either the case that one team has no kill, or that the kill alternates between each team each night. For balance purposes, I think because Trisscar was a cop, it’s the non-humans that either started out with or permanently have the kill.

As for why you would kill gluelock, the same reason anyone would. He’s largely town read.

As for why you in particular would be able to convince bessie, its based on personality traits. Different people have different degrees of deference with different people. You and Mak are the only players I think bessie would let take the reigns on the night kill choice.

Seven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:54 am I did receive a message implying that heury is human.

Vote: heury

Heury, claim.

Can you elaborate on this?