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I do believe Wam's claim, just not that he is town-aligned.

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Santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 11:26 am Is it standard here that the watcher doesnt see the name of the players and instead sees the name of the roles?

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 5:08 pm Ok so wam is claiming this then? https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Observer

But hes calling it a watcher? Is the role name actually watcher in your role PM?

For the record, the specifics of role names are arbitrary:

madge wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 10:50 am As usual with Halloween games, standard rolenames are used for convenience, however exact details of the roles might differ from what players could have encountered in the past.

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It's wild that so many people targeted Adum, what a popular guy.

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Jack of all Trades used their [cop] power last night

Jack of all Trades targeted [adum] last night

[Traffic Analyst] has been inherited by the Backup

[Adum] is [non-Town]

From this, we can infer that the Insane Publishing Cop did not do the kill. As scum, they would want to use their ability to miselem a towny. Having Adum flip in the same night they used their ability on him would have revealed their hand for no gain.

I don't think the second JOAT did the kill either given that they are Loud. It would point to them when claims eventually happen.

So I think either Wam's team did the kill or there is a ninja as he suggested.

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Mafia Universe and communities connected with it highly forbid discussion around substitutions in any form. I agree with several aspects of it, but believe that the rules around it have become too highly moralized and stringent. In my view it is rather clear that faking and delaying a replacement request for your team's advantage, such as what Madge proposed in Dancer, is angle shooting and should be prohibited. I do not believe that reading someone from replacing out should be prohibited, and I find it to be an unpleasant aspect of MU's culture. A player's alignment is often, but not always, a factor in their replacing out. Pretending that it is not is anti-intellectual. Replacements are and always will be an integral aspect of online mafia. Speaking of them, therefore, is not inherently a violation of the game's integrity. I hope that one day MU adapts its policy to reflect this.

Regardless, we are not on MU and are not beholden to such policy. We are only beholden to the policy of the host. I believe Adum is correct in his presumption that Madge would not find the discussion around the replacement as a forbidden topic. I made a similar presumption when I made my read on Fred D1 with regard to receiving PMs. Ramenchef Mafia is a tiny mafia community, and we are rather loose in terms of the boundaries of OGI. A bit too loose at times (e.g. Fred posting outside the game thread, and Moody doing so too).

Tbh I think it's POE run through the list and it should.be OK.

If its mutliball and 2/2/7 we have 2 mis elims after me

If its not and us 3/8 we have 2 mis elims after me plus a NL at mylo.

I think myntown core earlier is solid which means scumust be in

JC
Bessies
Somi
Moody
Santy

So either 3/5 or 4/5 so hit everyone on the list we win.

@mak

I have left in my JOAT tool box

Cop (was saving for closer to endgame)
Roleblocker
Parrot - weird one I'm not going to explain as it's more useful that way
Doc (was saving for closer to endgame)

[quote="Seven"I am certain that Wam is scum. I’d appreciate if Mak/Santy revoted.[/quote]

I assume this is based on a hypothesis of one JOAT per faction, and you of course consider yourself town?

Seven wrote:I am certain that Wam is scum. I’d appreciate if Mak/Santy revoted.

I assume this is based on a hypothesis of one JOAT per faction (town and scum), and you of course consider yourself town?

moody7277 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:03 pm

Seven wrote:I am certain that Wam is scum. I’d appreciate if Mak/Santy revoted.

I assume this is based on a hypothesis of one JOAT per faction (town and scum), and you of course consider yourself town?

But there is 3 joats

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:07 pm

moody7277 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:03 pm

Seven wrote:I am certain that Wam is scum. I’d appreciate if Mak/Santy revoted.

I assume this is based on a hypothesis of one JOAT per faction (town and scum), and you of course consider yourself town?

But there is 3 joats

So there are. Interesting that...

Wam wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:00 pm Tbh I think it's POE run through the list and it should.be OK.

If its mutliball and 2/2/7 we have 2 mis elims after me

If its not and us 3/8 we have 2 mis elims after me plus a NL at mylo.

I think myntown core earlier is solid which means scumust be in

JC
Bessies
Somi
Moody
Santy

So either 3/5 or 4/5 so hit everyone on the list we win.

@mak

I have left in my JOAT tool box

Cop (was saving for closer to endgame)
Roleblocker
Parrot - weird one I'm not going to explain as it's more useful that way
Doc (was saving for closer to endgame)

Not that I need you to explain it, but how useful will it be if you get elimmed?

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:09 pm

Wam wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:00 pm Tbh I think it's POE run through the list and it should.be OK.

If its mutliball and 2/2/7 we have 2 mis elims after me

If its not and us 3/8 we have 2 mis elims after me plus a NL at mylo.

I think myntown core earlier is solid which means scumust be in

JC
Bessies
Somi
Moody
Santy

So either 3/5 or 4/5 so hit everyone on the list we win.

@mak

I have left in my JOAT tool box

Cop (was saving for closer to endgame)
Roleblocker
Parrot - weird one I'm not going to explain as it's more useful that way
Doc (was saving for closer to endgame)

Not that I need you to explain it, but how useful will it be if you get elimmed?

Not at all but TBH if the details.of.one power sway someone either way then that would be a nassive surprise to me so this seems the best option.

Please don't read my behaviour in other games, especially as scum, into my likely modding rationale.

Aside about my behaviour in dancers:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

In Dancers, I was doing my usual thing which was reading the rules to try to break them at the seams and get an advantage for my team. I was also very concerned about my plan - which didn't end up getting used - being seen as going too far or being dishonest in some way. I am frankly hurt that the fact I was trying to see where the boundaries were has been taken to mean "Madge has no boundaries, do what you like!"

I think discussion of replacement requests very quickly has the ability to get ugly (e.g. imagine if instead of speculating whether Adumb was really upset that day, you were speculating whether he was really hospitalised?), and I would personally not look kindly on that.

As a result for the next game I mod, and for the rest of this game, I am instituting a new rule:

All communications with the mod (replacement requests, questions, etc) must be submitted via PM only. You may not reference to having made any requests of the mods until after you've received a response, or if it has been an unreasonable amount of time. The only exception to this is communication related to the votals (requesting, pointing out errors, etc).

On a lighter note, I really do appreciate having Sabrar as he helps make sure I don't include too much PIZZAZZ, I think a few years ago I posted some outtakes after the game showing exactly what came out of my mind that he didn't allow haha

Not even thinking about it swaying anyone. Just curious as to why you think it's best to keep that info tucked in your pocket for later, if you're doing nothing to keep yourself around for later.

Personally, I don't think you should be the elim for today, but I didn't think Bessie should have been eliminated last game and I was wrong about her. My reads are usually trash this early in the game, but I think Moody or Somi should be the play today.

Wam wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:12 pm Not at all but TBH if the details.of.one power sway someone either way then that would be a nassive surprise to me so this seems the best option.

Above post was directed at Wam

somitomi wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 4:34 pm Also, spilled milk but if you suspect someone of being a doctor it's generally a good idea to keep that to yourself.

Under threat of "do reads or be night killed", I feel justified in my actions.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 5:08 pm Ok so wam is claiming this then? https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Observer

But hes calling it a watcher? Is the role name actually watcher in your role PM?

And for adum to be town, that 2nd unclaimed and unaccounted for JOAT must be a scum JOAT that framed/tailored either adum or the publishing cop such that the publishing cop's result would present as non-town?

And now adum is suggesting he is BP on some level? And that he has other shit going on with his role too?

Adum now feels increasingly more like a godfather, or some kind of 1 shot BP indy that is supposed to be cop immune or come up town to investigatives, hence his "this is bastard" meltdown

@Wam is you ability one shot? Or limited as even/odd night?

Vote: Bessie

I believe there's two copies of each role, with slight variations (loud/one-shot/etc.)

I think there is merit to directing wam's cop or doc ability tonight and eliming elsewhere

moody7277 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:03 pm

Seven wrote:I am certain that Wam is scum. I’d appreciate if Mak/Santy revoted.

I assume this is based on a hypothesis of one JOAT per faction (town and scum), and you of course consider yourself town?

No, I think he is scum from his play. The role is irrelevant.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:49 pm I think there is merit to directing wam's cop or doc ability tonight and eliming elsewhere

There is merit, but is not the correct play because he is scum.

Seven, why are you pushing Wam so hard?

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:44 pm

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 5:08 pm Ok so wam is claiming this then? https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Observer

But hes calling it a watcher? Is the role name actually watcher in your role PM?

And for adum to be town, that 2nd unclaimed and unaccounted for JOAT must be a scum JOAT that framed/tailored either adum or the publishing cop such that the publishing cop's result would present as non-town?

And now adum is suggesting he is BP on some level? And that he has other shit going on with his role too?

Adum now feels increasingly more like a godfather, or some kind of 1 shot BP indy that is supposed to be cop immune or come up town to investigatives, hence his "this is bastard" meltdown

@Wam is you ability one shot? Or limited as even/odd night?

Vote: Bessie

I believe there's two copies of each role, with slight variations (loud/one-shot/etc.)

2 copies you say...hmm

Yes

So do you think Wam is lying about there being 3 joats?

Also, why would the traffic analyst need to go to a backup of there already was a second one?

Also, Somi, if you're going to go that far, please at least go the whole distance and read the wiki entry for the character.

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 11:02 pm So do you think Wam is lying about there being 3 joats?

Also, why would the traffic analyst need to go to a backup of there already was a second one?

Not what I was saying yes to. I mean that the conclusion I see you coming to is correct

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 11:03 pm

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 11:02 pm So do you think Wam is lying about there being 3 joats?

Also, why would the traffic analyst need to go to a backup of there already was a second one?

Not what I was saying yes to. I mean that the conclusion I see you coming to is correct

The conclusion I was coming to was that you aren't paying much attention.

Well yes, but also another thing

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 11:12 pm Well yes, but also another thing

We should elim Moody?