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Posted: **Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:57 pm**

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:54 pm
The Snide Sniper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:39 am My ability reports the faction (i.e. town, mafia, cult, or survivor) of the targeted player, I'm guessing with some exceptions like a godfather or a framer.
Your predecessor interpreted your role quite differently. @Zenni

I just know what I got.

To paraphrase:

First night result of somi town, second night result of Seven scum.

And then later on: Third night result of Suzaku town.

Posted: **Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:58 pm**

I did ask, though. I'll see when I get a response.

Posted: **Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:00 pm**

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:28 pm Some of the above weirdness has me wondering if Seven/TSS is a thing.

I could see a world where Seven puts TSS/Zenni up to claiming faction cop with a mafia result and then they're bussing each other. Seven doesn't usually bus but maybe he felt his position was sufficiently hopeless that he'd go for it.

I hate bussing and never do it. I prefer the old way of doing things like I did back in the 2000s of bussing being bad sportsmanship (was not even known as bussing at least in my group) and mafia tried to support their team members.

Posted: **Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:03 pm**

Seven/Heury/TSS/Zenni stuff:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:17 am I actually read snide sniper as town based on his response to Boomfrog.

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:54 pm Yeah snide sniper is not gonna be my vote today.

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:29 pm Snide Sniper- This read is based off the knowledge that snide sniper has experience playing mafia but not forum mafia. I interpret snide sniper's asking why Jimbob was being read as town as a townie sincerely trying to understand how things work here. The meta of town of Salem is so fast paced that mafia tend to wait for a scum accusation than join the bandwagon. Not a lot of question time

Heury is quite defensive of TSS. His read just above is much more detailed than any of his other reads. Similar to his read on somi in WWZ mafia, it's based more on OOG info than actual play.

The Snide Sniper wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:35 am Seems way too weak when heury has basically been digging a hole for himself this whole time. Although I wouldn't put a strong scum lean on heury; he seems like he could just be clueless town.

TSS wishy-washy on heury here.

The Snide Sniper wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:39 pm As promised, my heurivote explanation:

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:55 pm Kinda sucks when the number one reason you're being scum read is because you're trying to share your honest opinion.
This overly defensive, moreso than a townie would likely be, although I'm not too familiar with the meta.

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:36 am I'm currently undecided of Boomfrog is scum taking advantage of my slightly scummy appearance right now, or if this is Boomfrog who thinks they laid a trap and actually caught a scum. Thinking more about it, the latter seems more likely.

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:55 pm Kinda sucks when the number one reason you're being scum read is because you're trying to share your honest opinion.
I'm not quite sure, but these posts seems to be trying to insinuate that he's town without actually saying it, which seems quite scummy.

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:53 pm
Wam wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:19 pm

Why?
This is funny coming from you. Answer, because I only vote for people I think are scum.
Seems needlessly aggressive.

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:53 pm
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:04 pm Everything somitomi has said so far is making me read town on him.
You should read his last game. He was mafia and everyone was town reading him out the get go. So I am wary of his town tone right now.
Unless I'm reading this wrong, he seems to be saying "somitomi looks like town, therefore he is scum", which just sounds like marinating.

Comes out pretty strong here in retrospect, though heury had already been yeeted and TSS was justifying their vote. Hmm.

The Snide Sniper wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:14 pm To be honest, I think I'm losing interest in this game. Even a simple reads list can take me hours to make, and I'm having trouble working up the motivation to spend that kind of time. I'd quit outright, but because of my power role doing so would leave the town at a disadvantage.

I might get voted off for this, I might get modkilled, I might get nightkilled, I don't really care at this point. But here's my role.

Role: Phoenix Cop
N1: somitomi - town
N2: Seven - mafia

This is in D3. TSS would have had time to talk to Seven about this.

The Snide Sniper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:39 am My ability reports the faction (i.e. town, mafia, cult, or survivor) of the targeted player, I'm guessing with some exceptions like a godfather or a framer.

TSS is fairly well versed in somewhat uncommon power roles. Though these were mentioned earlier.

The Snide Sniper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:30 pm I'd vote for Seven, but was told L-1 is bad.

This vote is very late for TSS having a mafia result? Why didn't he believe it?

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:15 am Sniper - Could see this going either way, but I think reading him at face value is the way to go.

Says he's Town.

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:02 pm Theory

Pat - Survivor
Wam - Mafia
TSS - Mafia
Somi - Cultist

Says he's scum.

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:18 am the snide sniper - obv town, needs prods

Says he's Town.

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:46 pm What does Phoenix cop mean?

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:56 pm @somi, no my role name is literally Phoenix. So I want to know if Sniper is a Phoenix and Cop or a Cop that looks for Phoenixes. If the latter, his guilty result could just be the fact that I am a Phoenix. If the former, that disproves the Zeneury is Survivor speculation.

Hmm...

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:03 am Sniper - The we post here seems obvnewbie town: viewtopic.php?p=6900#p6900. Considering I'm town, this post is townie: viewtopic.php?p=7165#p7165 because his idea of Pat being scum is centered on the idea of me being her partner. The reasoning for his heury vote seems genuine here: viewtopic.php?p=7933#p7933. Snide is likely town.

Says he's Town. Likely Town seems a little weak here actually?

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:14 pm ]The only reason I think Snide is mafia is because he investigated Somi rater than his scumread, Pat. @Laser this to you as well. And I've been very specific with my wording, I've never once said Snide is "definitely scum." I've said things like "probably just mafia" and "it's looking like he's just mafia here." But IDK until he starts replying to stuff.

Says he's scum.

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:54 am I said earlier that one of somi's posts was a partner slip for him and Sniper, but I don't really think they are the mafia team after thinking about it some more. I just poke at things to see how the accused respond to the idea. (Hence why my play is often viewed as erratic, a la WWZ). I am 95% sure though that moody is mafia. I am also 95% sure that Wam is scum and think it is highly likely that he is mafia as well.

Unsure

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:35 am This is my final read list and legacy unless some new information comes up.

Town
Seven: Phoenix
BoomFrog: Ellen Ripley, town Jack of All Trades
jimbob

bessie
the snide sniper
----

I think both The Snide Sniper and Patzer's roles are true. Mafia has some sort of manipulation role to combat this, like the fabricator variant that was in the Wolf on Wall Street. I think this is the most reasonable explanation for Sniper's result on me. Hopefully, it means his result on Somi is probably true. We need him to confirm that the format of his results is how he put it though. That is, that he specifically got a Town result on Somi.

Says he's Town and the role is true.

Seven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:37 am From there, if you can come to the conclusion that Sniper is telling the truth (it's improbable that he is lying because why would scum!him claim cop when there was already a claimed cop, and why would he claim mafia on me when it would lead to him being killed the next day)

Unless this was part of the plan all along?

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:58 am
Zenni wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:05 am Hi everyone. Still catching up. Yesterday was busier than I expected so I wasn't able to use it to read during the night. But I did submit a check on Seven and got a result of mafia.

Vote Seven

From what I have read, I was leaning town on suzaku and Bessie, but those are very flimsy reads.

Your predecessor already had a mafia result on me from N2.

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:14 am
Zenni wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:09 am
Seven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:04 am You're not someone I could see overlooking that. So who did you really check?

I don't think I know you.

Fusion Mafia. ChazDot. Thanks for replacing in.

This interaction is very weird.

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:17 am
Zenni wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:07 am
Seven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:58 am
Your predecessor already had a mafia result on me from N2.

Huh. Double-checking the PM. Oh, I misread Madge's messages. The Night 3 check was a town result on suzaku.

Hm I don't believe this. You wouldn't have claimed immediately had you not known your slot had already claimed. Additionally you opened with having only a weak read on Suzaku.

So is this.

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:07 pm
Zenni wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:22 am
Seven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:17 am
Hm I don't believe this. You wouldn't have claimed immediately had you not known your slot had already claimed. Additionally you opened with having only a weak read on Suzaku.

The Suzaku result was in a separate message from the other results. I just misread Night 2 as Night 3.
You didn't address the point about you claiming right away. You must have been aware that TSS had already claimed otherwise you wouldn't have done so willy nilly. Yet you're proclaiming to not have read that far.

And you're also pretending that you don't know that Bessie has been eliminated. So essentally you're lying out the arse left and right.

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:55 pmVote: Zenni

Now with the new player he's scum again.

My notes are in the spoiler in bold.

I think there's a case to be made for Zenni/Seven as mafia together. Just watching Seven's read on him ping-pong back and forth for no particular reason over the course of a Day seems really bizarre to me.

Posted: **Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:03 pm**

Sorry, that isn't intended to be directed at the mods at the end there, just forgot to turn off the bold.

Posted: **Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:10 pm**

Which would mean that Seven didn't actually scumslip in the way that I thought he did but, there's no way for him to correct me without tipping his hand.

Also means it's possible that somi was actually cult after all, and somehow that is connected to his lack of flip? Perhaps his role is just that he never flips as cult leader unless all of the cult is eliminated? And therefore Suzaku is the recruit?

Posted: **Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:13 pm**

Honestly I think Seven has sorta TMI'd me as unaligned with him.

Posted: **Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:17 pm**

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:08 pm @Madge: Can we get a prod on Wam? I don't think he's posted at all this phase.

I'm here. As stated previously I was going to be away sat to Tuesday. I'm catching up but I don't think I'm going to be fully up to speed before deadline as I need to sleep!

Posted: **Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:17 pm**

Zenni wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:00 pm I hate bussing and never do it. I prefer the old way of doing things like I did back in the 2000s of bussing being bad sportsmanship (was not even known as bussing at least in my group) and mafia tried to support their team members.

Your predecessor already claimed a mafia result on him. It's not like you would really have had much choice in the matter.

Posted: **Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:21 pm**

So maybe it's

Town: Laser/Wam/moody/BoomFrog/jimbob/patzer
Survivor: bessie
Mafia: Zenni/Seven
Cult: somitomi/Suzaku (recruit)

Posted: **Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:35 pm**

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:03 pm
heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:29 pm Snide Sniper- This read is based off the knowledge that snide sniper has experience playing mafia but not forum mafia. I interpret snide sniper's asking why Jimbob was being read as town as a townie sincerely trying to understand how things work here. The meta of town of Salem is so fast paced that mafia tend to wait for a scum accusation than join the bandwagon. Not a lot of question time
Heury is quite defensive of TSS. His read just above is much more detailed than any of his other reads. Similar to his read on somi in WWZ mafia, it's based more on OOG info than actual play.

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:14 am
Zenni wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:09 am

I don't think I know you.
Fusion Mafia. ChazDot. Thanks for replacing in.
This interaction is very weird.

I don't know if it is normal for this to happen here but it felt like all of this was talking about something that was not related to the game. Seven seemed to be trying to get me to say something by using some kind of code? I don't know. In my experience, this sort of talk comes from mafia distracting other players from the actual game. I felt uncomfortable about Seven's post, and heuristically_alone's might be similar territory?

It kinda makes me feel like there might be some kind of lost wolf or that mafia and cult might both have conversion abilities.

Posted: **Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:56 pm**

Zenni wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:35 pm
LaserGuy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:03 pm
heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:29 pm Snide Sniper- This read is based off the knowledge that snide sniper has experience playing mafia but not forum mafia. I interpret snide sniper's asking why Jimbob was being read as town as a townie sincerely trying to understand how things work here. The meta of town of Salem is so fast paced that mafia tend to wait for a scum accusation than join the bandwagon. Not a lot of question time
Heury is quite defensive of TSS. His read just above is much more detailed than any of his other reads. Similar to his read on somi in WWZ mafia, it's based more on OOG info than actual play.

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:14 am
Fusion Mafia. ChazDot. Thanks for replacing in.
This interaction is very weird.
I don't know if it is normal for this to happen here but it felt like all of this was talking about something that was not related to the game. Seven seemed to be trying to get me to say something by using some kind of code? I don't know. In my experience, this sort of talk comes from mafia distracting other players from the actual game. I felt uncomfortable about Seven's post, and heuristically_alone's might be similar territory?

It kinda makes me feel like there might be some kind of lost wolf or that mafia and cult might both have conversion abilities.

I think Seven was trying to cover for you getting your claim wrong.

Posted: **Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:12 am**

I'm going to sleep but consider my vote on seven if it wasnt hamer

Posted: **Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:43 am**

Anything needed from me? Also, can you guys just call Zenni something else, it's really confusing for me.

Posted: **Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:54 am**

Oh wait Jim hammered me? Yeah I was town. You guys are really overthinking this.

Posted: **Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:14 am**

Nevermind, was skimming.

-The Chazdot thing was letting Zenni2 that I know who he actually is. Just didn't want to reveal it to everyone if he wanted to be anonymous for some reason.
-MafiaMe only makes sense with MafiaJim since the only way the second kill makes sense in a MafiaMe perspective is if Jim shot Boom and was PGO. Otherwise, I'm telling the truth about my vig shot and mafia having a vig shot in this setup is just lulz.
-If accepting the idea that TSS wouldn't claim cop as scum, you also have to accept the idea that town has a faction cop with a town mafia cop which is silly, even with the fact that there is some manipulation/fabrication role. When has Sabrar ever put something so strong in a game? (not to mention its a Phoenix)

@Zenni - please use a different account, otherwise I'm just gonna have to replace (unless I'm just yeeted). Sorry I didn't realize how annoying it would be, I keep thinking people are talking to me.

Posted: **Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:53 am**

@Laser, I cannot express how much multi-tasking is not my thing. My brain just doesn't work the way yours does, I can only have one or two windows open in my mind at the time, everything else is made a background process. I'm busy irl and once bessie flipped, the game seemed pretty much solved to me, so I minimized this game in my mind. When minimized, I just let me thoughts flow as they come and don't really pay attention to details like numbers since I know other people (like yourself) will work it out. I'm sorry that's just a limitation of mine, switching between windows has a higher than normal cost for me than most people I think because I'm oversensitive to stimuli. When in a new window or environment, there is an overwhelming flood of information and I cannot be until all I've organized all of it, hard to explain. But for this reason I have to keep non-priority tasks in the background on skim mode, where even something as small as "counting" escapes my faculties.

You can see this same thing in WWZ Day 3 where I was in stream of conscious throwing things out mode and people were having a hard time reading me until I actually switched Windows and made an analysis post (like I did the other day in that legacy post where you town read me) and people were like why didn't you just say these things before?

I'm sorry it's made your read change on me, I really meant to avoid that going forward from that game. But man you really shouldn't be letting such a small thing taint your read, you were just 90% sure I was town the other day. How are you gonna let one misunderstanding overshadow everything else to the point where you are basing all of your reads on the idea that I'm mafia smh. Like bro as scum I'm just not gonna "slip" like that lol, I'm much more attentive and deliberate as scum. Compare NNY, Witchhunt, Sumting Mafia to my play here, WWZ, Apex Legends, etc.

sorry for typos

Posted: **Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:16 am**

Unvote

Posted: **Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:41 am**

Unofficial Votals:

Seven (1) - Zenni
Zenni (1) - Seven

Not voting: moody7277, Suzaku, Wam, jimbob, LaserGuy

With seven players alive, four votes required to elim.

If this tie goes through at nightfall, then I believe Seven will be elimmed as she got on the list first.

At this point I think I would prefer to elim Zenni to Seven, and I will likely break the tie in that direction if there is no other input prior to deadline.
I will check the thread between now and then as often as I can, but I am at work, so might not respond immediately.

Will also be going back to read over both again to see if I can make heads or tails of them.

Posted: **Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:42 am**

Deadline is in just over two hours.

Posted: **Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:45 am**

Seven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:54 am Oh wait Jim hammered me? Yeah I was town. You guys are really overthinking this.

Seven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:14 am Nevermind, was skimming.

I see.

-The Chazdot thing was letting Zenni2 that I know who he actually is. Just didn't want to reveal it to everyone if he wanted to be anonymous for some reason.

I assumed it was something like that. That part specifically didn't really bother me; that whole exchange just give me weird vibes.

-MafiaMe only makes sense with MafiaJim since the only way the second kill makes sense in a MafiaMe perspective is if Jim shot Boom and was PGO. Otherwise, I'm telling the truth about my vig shot and mafia having a vig shot in this setup is just lulz.

If Town is powered enough I don't think a mafia vig is impossible in principle. There was one in SumtingSumting and Town had awful powers.

-If accepting the idea that TSS wouldn't claim cop as scum, you also have to accept the idea that town has a faction cop with a town mafia cop which is silly, even with the fact that there is some manipulation/fabrication role. When has Sabrar ever put something so strong in a game? (not to mention its a Phoenix)

It's more a question of, under what circumstances would non-Town TSS fake claim something like this, given he's a newbie? Either the role is a given fake claim, in which case, Sabrar did feel it would plausibly fit within the balance of the setup, or it was crafted by TSS and/or mafia!TSS' partner. In the latter case, well, the partner is pretty much either you or Wam since BoomFrog is already confirmed and nobody else is IMHO ambitious enough to attempt something like this.

Posted: **Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:45 am**

I will be voting again before the end of the night. Just didn't want to hammer while I was still musing about things.

Posted: **Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:14 am**

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:45 am
Seven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:54 am Oh wait Jim hammered me? Yeah I was town. You guys are really overthinking this.

Seven wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:14 am Nevermind, was skimming.
I see.

No I'm not trying to fake town slip.

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:45 am
-The Chazdot thing was letting Zenni2 that I know who he actually is. Just didn't want to reveal it to everyone if he wanted to be anonymous for some reason.
I assumed it was something like that. That part specifically didn't really bother me; that whole exchange just give me weird vibes.

Can you be more specific? The weird vibes probably are from Zenni2 because he's scum. Also, I thought you said it was because you thought I was trying to help him with his claim? If you figured it was the alt thing, then?

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:45 am If Town is powered enough I don't think a mafia vig is impossible in principle. There was one in SumtingSumting and Town had awful powers.

That was a large game and it wasn't made by Sabrar. I just can't imagine Sabrar giving town a self-reviving faction cop with a mafia cop on top of that.

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:45 am It's more a question of, under what circumstances would non-Town TSS fake claim something like this, given he's a newbie? Either the role is a given fake claim, in which case, Sabrar did feel it would plausibly fit within the balance of the setup, or it was crafted by TSS and/or mafia!TSS' partner. In the latter case, well, the partner is pretty much either you or Wam since BoomFrog is already confirmed and nobody else is IMHO ambitious enough to attempt something like this.

I'm not sure why you don't think he is cult? He's not mafia, his mafia partner wouldn't allow him to claim that when there was already a claimed cop and he never counter claimed. I don't understand why cultHim would claim either, but the alternative, that the role exists as town, is less believable.

Posted: **Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:17 am**

Also to be clear, I don't think it is a safe claim, I think it's his actual ability. A cult leader with a faction cop ability. That doesn't mean it's safe to claim, it's just his role.

Posted: **Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:27 am**

And like there's no town player who would come into the game immediately claiming his results without having read. Zenni2's intro was just flat-out not natural.

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