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jimbobmacdoodle wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:59 am I don't think we're going to see a quickhammer today, unless a Mafia player knows their goose is cooked already. Setup spec suggests that no team is in a position where a quickhammer is useful.

Vote moody

There were over 12 hours in which a quickhammer could have happened. I think Laser is town and I don't think mafia is going for it. I think Seven probably reassured their buddy that they could handle the thread and shift votes away from themself.

Roped into talking with boss, so not able to focus here.
That said:

Zenni wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:36 pm Is the super NK confirmed or just claimed?

Claimed only, but there aren't many alternatives I can see.

Someone killed BF, and that pretty much has to be either jimbob (who presumably got hit be a PGO-type retaliatory strike) or Seven (who claimed she shot him).

Possibilities I can see:

• scum!jimbob shot BF, got hit by PGO, and scum!Seven claimed the kill for ??townie points?? or to deflect questions from jim when/if he got rezzed
• town!jimbob shot BF, got hit by PGO, and scum!Seven claimed the kill for no obvious reason at all.
• something!jimbob shot BF and independently somebody shot jim, and scum!Seven claimed the BF kill for no obvious reason at all.
• something!Seven shot BF and claimed to prevent sidetracking into a whodunnit conversation, and Mafia!someone shot town!jim.

I have to say that the last option seems most likely to me.

In the last scenario, Seven's claim is townie, as confusion generally serves anti-town.

Suzaku basically summarised my thoughts on Seven's kill. Either Seven is truthfully claiming a super kill (that they gained after a self-rez) or they claimed a kill when in fact they (or a buddy) killed me that night. There's also an outside possibility that there was no super kill that stopped flipping, and rather somehow no rezzes could be used on BoomFrog - LaserGuy, am I right on thinking that this is ruled out by the fact that you could have rezzed BoomFrog?

@Zenii - please answer my questions earlier about your role. It is important they get answered to help clarify my thoughts around you.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:42 pm Suzaku basically summarised my thoughts on Seven's kill. Either Seven is truthfully claiming a super kill (that they gained after a self-rez) or they claimed a kill when in fact they (or a buddy) killed me that night. There's also an outside possibility that there was no super kill that stopped flipping, and rather somehow no rezzes could be used on BoomFrog - LaserGuy, am I right on thinking that this is ruled out by the fact that you could have rezzed BoomFrog?

@Zenii - please answer my questions earlier about your role. It is important they get answered to help clarify my thoughts around you.

BoomFrog flipped immediately. There was no opportunity to rez him. There's no reason in principle I couldn't have, and somi also had an active rez at the time.

Well, I guess somi was using his that night, but patzer didn't flip until my rez was actually used.

Suzaku wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:29 am Unofficial Votals:

Seven (3) - Zenni, LaserGuy
Zenni (1) - Seven

Not voting: moody7277, Suzaku, Wam, jimbob

With seven players alive, four votes required to elim.

Seven is at yeet-1

Posted since the last vote on Seven (LaerGuy, in this post:
LaserGuy
moody (underline vote)
Seven
jimbob
Suzaku

Not posted:
Wam
Zenni

Not sure if the lack of a quickhammer speaks to alignments, caution, confusion over votals, or timezones.

LG/Zenni would you consider unvoting to avoid quickhammer?

No. We have 16 hours left.

Deadline timer. Figure out where you stand quickly, everyone.

Town:
LaserGuy
BoomFrog
patzer
Suzaku
somitomi
Zenni
Moody

Mafia:
Seven
Jimbob

Cult:
Wam

Survivor:
bessie

I'm okay with a Seven elim, have been since at least as far back as D2. The only reason I pulled back slightly start of this Day was that with bessie's flip she wasn't the exact type of scum I was figuring. PoE still says she's some sort.

Current setup possibilities, in my mind, in full:

Cult: {moody} or {Suzaku, somitomi} or {TSS/Zenii} or {wam}
Mafia: {wam, moody} or {Seven, TSS/Zenii} or {wam, Seven} or {wam, TSS/Zenii} or {wam, somitomi} or {somitomi, TSS/Zenii}
Town, more or less confirmed in my mind: LaserGuy, Suzaku, if not recruit.

My current town/scum list:
Town
LaserGuy
Suzaku
somitomi
Seven
wam
TSS/Zenii <- position is changing upwards as I think about my previous post theory, but will sink to bottom without a response to my question
Moody
Scum

I may or may not be around at deadline. If I've got it right, deadline is 9am, my time, and I'm usually awake during my time off by 8.30, but there's no guarantee.

I'm not strongly opposed to a Seven elim, as it'll give a flip, and will hopefully clear me, but I think it's likely a misleet. Yes, I know this makes me look like his buddy, at least in LaserGuy's eyes, if he flips Mafia. I'd prefer a moody or Zenii leet.

For the record, I have nothing that I feel is useful to claim about my role at this time. I didn't resurrect anybody. Flavour indicates I was likely killed by Mafia: I'm a teenager, whose mother grounded me after apparently receiving a bribe (night kill), but later she had problems accessing her fancy flight tickets on her computer so ungrounded me when I helped her fix it (resurrection).

Suzaku wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:05 pm Roped into talking with boss, so not able to focus here.
That said:

Zenni wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:36 pm Is the super NK confirmed or just claimed?

Claimed only, but there aren't many alternatives I can see.

Someone killed BF, and that pretty much has to be either jimbob (who presumably got hit be a PGO-type retaliatory strike) or Seven (who claimed she shot him).

Possibilities I can see:

• scum!jimbob shot BF, got hit by PGO, and scum!Seven claimed the kill for ??townie points?? or to deflect questions from jim when/if he got rezzed
• town!jimbob shot BF, got hit by PGO, and scum!Seven claimed the kill for no obvious reason at all.
• something!jimbob shot BF and independently somebody shot jim, and scum!Seven claimed the BF kill for no obvious reason at all.
• something!Seven shot BF and claimed to prevent sidetracking into a whodunnit conversation, and Mafia!someone shot town!jim.

I have to say that the last option seems most likely to me.

Jimbob and Boomfrog were both killed overnight. Also doesn't that exclude the possibility that there's just some amount of kill power floating around between the various neutrals and mafia? Like, when a town flips, and jimbob has also been relatively townie, my inclination is to believe that it's due to a scum-linked kill.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:42 pm @Zenii - please answer my questions earlier about your role. It is important they get answered to help clarify my thoughts around you.

Can you point them out again? I must admit to skimming over some of your wall posts.

Never mind, found it.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:51 am@Zenii, could you claim your role name again. Going off of memory, TSS seemed confused what their role name was, and I have a theory that's occurred to me about your role, so I want to double check it before explaining. by role name, I mean something like BoomFrog's Jack of All Trades. Also, to confirm, you definitely got Mafia/Town results so far and not some variation that you interpreted as such? Does your role PM explicitly say you get faction results?

Phoenix Cop is the name of the role. I have a nightkill-only resurrection (part of why I think Seven may have an elimination-only resurrection) and I have gotten Scum/Town so far. The wording is a little unclear as to whether or not I'd get Scum or Cult for the cult, but based on how that Seven guy has been playing and also based on a brief skim of heuristically_alone's ISO, I think that slot is more likely Mafia than Cult.

Zenni wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:48 pm Jimbob and Boomfrog were both killed overnight. Also doesn't that exclude the possibility that there's just some amount of kill power floating around between the various neutrals and mafia? Like, when a town flips, and jimbob has also been relatively townie, my inclination is to believe that it's due to a scum-linked kill.

On the jimbob kill, there's also the fact that the only other kill that night was the one Seven claimed. Claiming a kill you didn't do seems rather silly to me, so the only other possibility would be mafia refraining N2 and a third kill being out there. Even with the number of rezzes in this game, that feels a bit much.

Oh and my flavour is one of my favorite characters from any show.

moody7277 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:03 pm

Zenni wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:48 pm Jimbob and Boomfrog were both killed overnight. Also doesn't that exclude the possibility that there's just some amount of kill power floating around between the various neutrals and mafia? Like, when a town flips, and jimbob has also been relatively townie, my inclination is to believe that it's due to a scum-linked kill.

On the jimbob kill, there's also the fact that the only other kill that night was the one Seven claimed. Claiming a kill you didn't do seems rather silly to me, so the only other possibility would be mafia refraining N2 and a third kill being out there. Even with the number of rezzes in this game, that feels a bit much.

I could see it if there's also two protectives.

My reads looks something like this:

Zenni
Suzaku
LaserGuy

jimbob

{somitomi
moody
Wam
Seven}

Seven seems like obviously not town.
The other three I think contain cult leader plus another mafia. My guess is that mafia have a tailor?

The Snide Sniper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:39 am My ability reports the faction (i.e. town, mafia, cult, or survivor) of the targeted player, I'm guessing with some exceptions like a godfather or a framer.

Your predecessor interpreted your role quite differently. @Zenni

Zenni wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:59 pm Never mind, found it.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:51 am@Zenii, could you claim your role name again. Going off of memory, TSS seemed confused what their role name was, and I have a theory that's occurred to me about your role, so I want to double check it before explaining. by role name, I mean something like BoomFrog's Jack of All Trades. Also, to confirm, you definitely got Mafia/Town results so far and not some variation that you interpreted as such? Does your role PM explicitly say you get faction results?

Phoenix Cop is the name of the role. I have a nightkill-only resurrection (part of why I think Seven may have an elimination-only resurrection) and I have gotten Scum/Town so far. The wording is a little unclear as to whether or not I'd get Scum or Cult for the cult, but based on how that Seven guy has been playing and also based on a brief skim of heuristically_alone's ISO, I think that slot is more likely Mafia than Cult.

Thanks for the response. My main issue was the name difference between yours and patzer's role, though that could be explained by the resurrection ability that was previously not stated. I do find it concerning that there is a big difference between what TSS and Zenii said about their role and results, as noted by LaserGuy.

@Zenii, to confirm, your Seven result said "scum", not "Mafia"? Could you ask the mods what you would get if you copped a Cult member, and also what you'd have gotten if you'd copped Bessie, the Anti-Social Survivor, please?

I thought I remembered the "Phoenix Cop" name claim from before, so I theorised that "Phoenix Cop" might have meant a role cop for Phoenix/resurrection abilities, which would put TSS as Mafia. I alternatively am considering the possibility that this is a town role of the same kind, but with a naivety element to it, but I feel like there's an aspect missing somewhere that I haven't figured out. Having thought about it though over the course of the day, the lack of flips means two Town cops is not out of the question, if they were of similar power levels. TSS's claim just doesn't make sense given patzer's flip. On the other hand, I could see a Scum/not scum cop, as claimed by Zenii, fitting alongside patzer. I could also see am edge case for extreme bussing, with Seven and Zenii being mafia buddies, where Seven had instructed TSS to bus him with a truthful mafia result, only for Zenii to not get the same message and mess up the claims.

I'm still stuck a bit here overall. I'm swinging around to believing Zenii, and therefore am inclined to support the Seven vote after all.

@LaserGuy, could you have rezzed bessie last night to your knowledge? I think so, if memory serves me correctly, in which case, I think Seven super-killed bessie and something else non-mafia could have caused my death.

Also, @LaserGuy, in your buddy analysis, did you consider whether a Mafia team might have been largely ignoring each other (unconsciously or otherwise)? I've seen that as a tell among some players before.

Unvote

Vote Seven

I think this is the way forward, having sat and thought about it. Not actually voting, to avoid hammer, but can do so in the morning, if there's consensus to end the day.

@mods, given the double vote, is hammer still the same? There appear to be 8 votes floating around, which would normally mean 5 votes for hammer.

@LaserGuy, you might already be able to answer the above, but figured I'd get this procedural question out of the way...!

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:38 pm @LaserGuy, could you have rezzed bessie last night to your knowledge? I think so, if memory serves me correctly, in which case, I think Seven super-killed bessie and something else non-mafia could have caused my death.

No, I could only target players who were actually dead. bessie was still alive during the Night phase.

Also, @LaserGuy, in your buddy analysis, did you consider whether a Mafia team might have been largely ignoring each other (unconsciously or otherwise)? I've seen that as a tell among some players before.

I didn't specifically look for players who are ignoring each other. I agree this is possible, though this far in the game, most players have interacted with each other to some degree and there was plenty to work with. This is trickier to judge because there's some players (e.g. bessie) who, as Town, interact fairly minimally with their townreads.

I haven't asked about hammers specifically no. My understanding is usually hammer is based on the number of players independent of any powers they may have.

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:17 pm No, I could only target players who were actually dead. bessie was still alive during the Night phase.

Ah, good point, thanks. If another rezzer thinks they should be able to rez bessie, but can't, I'd love to know. That would basically confirm Mafia!Seven in my mind

LaserGuy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:17 pm I haven't asked about hammers specifically no. My understanding is usually hammer is based on the number of players independent of any powers they may have.

Fair enough, that's what I'd expect, although it leads to weird situations towards endgame, I feel.

That's probably my last post before bed. If there are any questions for me before Night, please post them and I'll try to answer before deadline.

Some of the above weirdness has me wondering if Seven/TSS is a thing.

I could see a world where Seven puts TSS/Zenni up to claiming faction cop with a mafia result and then they're bussing each other. Seven doesn't usually bus but maybe he felt his position was sufficiently hopeless that he'd go for it.