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Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 3:56 am**

Makhaira

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D1
post 1: late start, votes Adum
post 2: votes Fred, Santy lean town, Bessie and adum scummy
post 3: asks Santy about voting habits
post 4: unimpressed by Santy's response
post 5: meta for Santy under construction
post 6: read on Adum more vibey
post 7: doesn't like not needing majority to elim

That's just how we roll at xkcd

post 8: hedging on his response to Santy's answer re voting habits, wants to be convinced by Adum about wam
post 9: fluff
post 10: fluff
post 11: wants stronger defense from Fred, confused by wam
post 12: suggestion for endgame re better voting records, Fred and worst votable
post 13: reaction to Adum asking about Mak's read of him, realizes Thea was self-imposed
post 14: figured Fred needed to claim
post 15: asks somi about worst vote
post 16: reminder about tie vote rule
post 17: asks worst about his reaction to Bessie
post 18: upset at worst for poor content
post 19: venting
post 20: votes worst
post 21: poking worst for content
post 22: points to worst's fluff
post 23: more like post 22
post 24: wants worst to work harder at the game
post 25: pulls back about frustration at the worst

laser like focus on the worst here seems to Cynical View like an excuse to not examine other players

post 26: post cool down, votes Fred for disappearing near EoD, Bessie also votable
post 27: will be on for deadline
post 28: doesn't like Seven's scum read of Thea
post 29: Fred and Bessie liability in endgame
post 30: wants explanation of Seven's read of Thea
post 31: responses to Seven about several reads
post 32: promises to make a flip
post 33: Thea least votable wrt Fred and Bessie
post 34: figures Adum was trying to get unbiased reactions to questions early in game
post 35: wants Fred back in thread
post 36: clarification of post 34
post 37: quotes post by Bessie he feels is votable
post 38: asking Adum about endgame
post 39: Fred's antics from last game detrimental later on
post 40: asks Seven to vote Fred
post 41: asking Seven about Fred in endgame
post 42: reading Bessie as scum
post 43: surprised about Santy soft-claiming vig, suggests Seven vote Fred to ensure elim
post 44: repost votals
post 45: asking Seven about following his vote
post 46: correction
post 47: votals
post 48: further correction to post 45
post 49: shamed at having the claim by Santy pointed out to him
post 50: supplement to post 49
post 51: scum!Fred implies town!bessie due to bussing

learned that lesson the hard way last game

post 52: fluff
post 53: wants Fred hammered
post 54: corrects it to wanting Adum and JC hammering
post 55: after Thea mason claim, votes Bessie
post 56: correction
post 57: Fred not playing well as mason, wants Bessie wagon
post 58: correction
post 59: wam more sus, doesn't want vote shenanigans
post 60: Bessie linking to Thea, helped by self-limitation
post 61: says he crumbed role
post 62: asking about scum chat based on mason chat
post 63: asking Seven about her vote despite crumb
post 64: response to Seven, answer
post 65: further about crumbed role
post 66: spec about Fred/Thea
post 67: wants extension
post 68: correction to post 65
post 69: thinks extension isn't going to happen

The whole thing with worst looked very poor, and Mak realized it due to the cool off period after which he started a more diverse view of the game. Cynical view thinks there was a significant amount of calculation in the move. Willingness to sacrifice less reliable townies for a better endgame is a strategic view I'm not well versed in.

D2
post 70: Leroy Jenkins post about Adum based on SoD post

Based on his previous read of Adum, it seems bizarre that he'd be so certain of a result in a game overflowing with pizzazz

post 71: Bessie votable for not following Mak's lead
post 72: has hypothesis of N1, wants Adum quickhammered
post 73: reiterates vote for Adum
post 74: claims PR and cause some of N1 actions
post 75: response to Seven
post 76: fluff
post 77: wants quickhammer to get town ahead of the game
post 78: question about Fred thinking mafia would quickhammer town!Adum
post 79: wants a full claim from Fred/Thea
post 80: still miffed at Fred
post 81: claims no chats
post 82: has to reconsider N1 hypothesis based on Seven claims

Cynical View here: seeing charismatic Seven wasn't going the quickhammer to happen, Mak decides to shift to a new ploy

post 83: further thoughts against his N1 hypothesis, unvotes, congratulates doc
post 84: neutral on the bastardy debate
post 85: no further claim from Mak, wants Seven to further explain
post 86: nervous about Seven's claimed result
post 87: says he considered possible result altering roles, but went guns blazing anyway

As I said previously, this looks very bad to me

post 88: Adum being NK target less clearing in multiball
post 89: reference to post 86
post 90: irl stuff
post 91: specifies what he wants Fred to claim
post 92: answering Adum about his sudden turn, blames misunderstanding of role
post 93: accepts Thea's roleclaim
post 94: definition of Traffic Analyst
post 95: fluff
post 96: T>S list, Thea, Fred, Seven town, Bessie scum and Adum depending on what Seven says
post 97: apologizes to mods
post 98: alternate conditions on town reading Adum

Based on mid-D1 and early D2, final grade -1

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 3:58 am**

Daily rufff! (My throat is still a little irritated from the fire.)

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:35 am Maybe I'll check out the game if it still exists and somebody can link it, but I wonder if boom just did it better mechanically. Similarly to how I think creative use of the quotes would allow you to express more complex thoughts I think.

I’ll look for it.
Pre-post edit, Seven posted the link, be sure to read my analysis of reactions to BoomFrog’s gambit, maybe it will help you understand my play this game.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:41 am Hey Bessie, would you mind explaining if your read of me changed between your last word/grrr list and if so when and why.

Particularly I'd like to know if this happened based on things that happened last game day, between the beginning of D2 and my entrance, and between my entrance and now along with the rationale.

Ok. At the time I made my list, I was unsure of you because I disagreed with your read of Theallieza, and I was considering that your reads of her were forced, and that you were looking for a reason to read her negatively [pre-post edit, refer to my BoomGambit analysis for meta on this]. Towards the day I felt a little better about you because of your interactions with me. You tend to be the town leader in every game I have played with you, so sorting you is of primary importance. I spent a lot of time N1 thinking about you because I needed to be sure you could be trusted. Call me crazy, but from what I have read since the start of D2, I now feel very strongly that you are town.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:43 am Oh yeah, and Bessie, Fredd has great reads as the game goes on but has a tendency to make terrible decisions so I don't know if encouraging him to be town leader is a good idea.

He doesn’t have to be leader, but it would be nice if he posted some functional content. I am trying to encourage Fred’s development into a better mafia player. Many players in this game consider him “confirmed town”. He should step up and start playing like a confirmed townie, not like counterproductive scum.

Fred: https://youtu.be/4ojOXRrsUbY?si=30WEPPcJXO81tbbk

Wam wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 12:00 pm Do think that eod between you and Seven was tvs and if seven is town....

This is so weak it’s more like a non-read. Let’s have some actual reasons.

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 1:13 pm So does anyone have information on a scum candidate or is this D1 part 2?

Well, if you’d like to play the game, you’re free to give us your thoughts on who is scum.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:05 pm I'm pretty sure you said on more than one occasion that you weren't trying to interpret my quotes. I do appreciate you trying to defend me, but I don't necessarily feel that you townreading me here is alignment indicative... I also am mindful that last game you gave me an early townclear when you were mafia and managed to pocket me for the better part of the game.

Where did this come from? And I didn’t need to interpret your quotes. I already understood them. You should try to read my posts. I think you are misremembering this:

bessie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 3:44 am Yes. I feel Thea’s self-imposed post restriction is something she is doing for fun, possibly for role playing. If it is role playing, I currently have no hope in figuring it out so I’m not even going to try. If the gambit is to gather information, I am willing to wait and see her conclusions. And while I am waiting, I am using the reactions to her content to refine my own reads.

Due to the extremely large number of possible time travel characters in this game, many of which are very likely from source material with which I am not familiar, I am not going to even try to find a character that is obsessed with movies that you might be roleplaying. Contrast this to Shakespeare Mafia, where I figured most of the roles on D1.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:05 pm It's something that I feel you would have found interesting and I'm surprised it didn't come up in your commentary on Fred.

I did find it interesting, and scum indicative. And I think that Fred trying to give hints to his role using his avatar is boarderline questionable anyway.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:05 pm Start of Day. Your first post of D2.

Yes, I did prewrite much of that post, because those were my thoughts at the end of D1. I also found the image in advance. I was going to add another image and more comments depending on the night results, but I didn’t need to because nobody died. I was waiting and made my last check before going to sleep, and saw that Madge started the day so I posted what I had.

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 1:58 am Vote: Bessie

Reasons?

More later it’s Hoku’s dinner time.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 4:16 am**

Wam wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 5:21 pm
Seven wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 5:08 pm Santy is your read on Wam based entirely of in thread content? Because I’m like fairly confident he’s scum.
Why?

I'll provide ostensible reasons: 1) You pushed the worst on something entirely superficial. This would be fine for an RVS-exiting vote, but you kept it up to the very end. 2) You bullied me into claiming.

Relevant Quotes:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Wam wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 3:51 pm unvote

Vote the worst

You would only be worried about bessie aura reading you if your aura is scummy

Wam wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 1:58 pm I think I have worked out what you mean. But if I'm right you need to claim all the details as otherwise we are going to lose a day as without the details your not swining this elim no matter how good you think your persuasion skills are.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 4:54 am**

Known / Anticipated Roles

Loud JOAT - Seven
Traffic Analyst - The Worst
Backup [Traffic Analyst]
Role Cop
Loud-Maker - Mak
Loud "Spectator" (The name I'm giving to the role)
Loud Insane Cop
Mason w/ 1-shot ability
Mason w/ 1-shot ability

For balance reasons, I don't believe the cop was unaware that they were Insane. Being informed provides the dilemma of them having to claim when inevitably either their innocent target is on the line or the Town-thread is clearing a guilty.

Reads Sort of

The worst
Seven

Adum
Bessie
Makhaira

Thea
Fred

Somi

JC

Santygrass

Moody
Wam

The only concern I have about Adum is his speculation that I could be indie. It doesn't fit as something my model of town!Adum would say. Bessie I still think is towny from the EoD1. I do agree with Thea that her town read of him seemed rather strong, so I'm not positive there. Mak's end of D1 seemed uninformed. Thea/Fred...sigh. Somi seemed very natural D1. The abruptness of his D2 post was sort of odd, but excusable. My only concern with him if Wam is scum was his statement D1 about not wanting to elim Wam D1 because Wam is a common D1 elim. I don't remember the last time Wam was even elimmed in any phase. PYP? JC: I really do like how he has been playing this game. I don't think it's necessarily town indicative though. I've always anticipated that when he finally rolled scum, he'd have more of a showing. That's not to say I think that having more of a showing = being scum (see: affirming the consequent).

Santy denied me my Wam push D1. I'm really not sure how to feel about it. I'm also not certain why he took my result as clearing for Adum when it could have been the case that my result was the one that was tampered with and the public result was accurate.

Moody I am actually scumreading for once rather than just having him in the pile due to PoE. His post about me here just seemed to pointed and knowing. I will say it is also far out of his character.

Wam I discussed above.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 5:01 am**

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 7:11 am I'd like for everyone that is in a neighborhood chat of one kind of another to claim so. There are two reasons, the primary one being so Traffic Analyst knows who they can target without getting a false positive.

Now that everyone has claimed, I will now go into the second reason. I think we can infer that the Backup is mafia-aligned. Scum claimed a lack of private communication with little hesitation, so they are not afraid of Traffic Analyst. So @Role Cop, I think you should look for this role. Normally, I would have just waited until the BU claimed, and go "hah, got you!", but I don't think I'll be around long enough for that.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 5:17 am**

Unvote

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 6:12 am**

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:44 am
Makhaira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:35 pmHOWEVER ADUM IS COMPLETELY CONTINGENT ON SEVEN EXPLAINING HOW THEY KNOW THE RESULT IS TAMPERED
This is odd to me. I consider myself a mountain-centered player: one who prioritizes player content over PR information. I'll utilize the latter, yes, but the former takes priority when they are in conflict and there are hidden variables. Are you not the same? You believe Adum would react as he did as scum?

This is a completely fair point but I hyper focused on an erroneous worldview wherein I thought my ability use enable an incredible combo so I jump to way too many conclusions thinking I'd hit a home run wanted to rush to go for the combo again, if that makes sense. obviously that was shortsighted and Im very glad we did not listen to me in that moment because I was 100% fucking wrong full stop and doing what I wanted to do would have been anti town given my misunderstanding of my role in that moment and derivatively what exactly had happened. and yes this is 100% a teachable moment about why generally mountainous analysis is the sounder approach

I do think that adums reaction lean townie, but Im also super wary of AtE these days and generally see it as scummy. but with everything playing out as it has and with your full claim as Ill be engaging with below, I am for the most part willing to accept your result over the other one that appears to be tampered with or inherently unreliable

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:44 am That being said, I will lay out my role and speculation since several people are asking for clarification.

What I know:
I am Loud Jack of all trades

The public aspect of my result reveals the name of the role I used, but not who I targeted or what the result of the actions was.

I used my cop ability N1 on Adum. I privately received the result that Adum is town.
What I am inferring:
My reveal was the first in the day start post.

There is a second Loud JOAT that also targeted Adum.

This second JOAT has their results revealed in the form of who they targeted, but not what role they used or what the result of the action was.

There is a third Loud investigative (potentially a JOAT, potentially a cop) that is responsible for the fourth reveal in the day start post. Their results reveal in the form of what the result was.
What I am speculating:
The result that Adum is non-town is false.

Initially I suspected this was due to a Tailor. Note that the difference between Framer and Tailor is that the former targets a player and alters any investigative results on that player, while the latter targets an investigator and alters that investigator's results only. Therefore, if it is the case that reveal #4 is not a result of my cop, Adum could not have been targeted by a Framer since my private result is in disagreement. It is possible, however, that a Tailor targeted the investigator who is tied to reveal #4.

Currently, I think that reveal #4 is a result of a Paranoia/Insane modifier rather than a Tailor due to what others have said.

I agree with this analysis, the discrepancy is most simply explained by a difference it whether the subject being checked has their "status" altered or whether the investigator's received result is being tampered with/reversed etc. The only other thing I can think of would be some strange natural action resolution related timing issue causing an "earlier priority" result to get the untampered result and the later "slower" action getting a tampered one, though this would feel very arbitrary and like poor design which I dont really expect from a madge/sabrar team. Idk how high fidelity the hosts here are to core NAR though I've never really asked

question though, can you be more specific about the manner of your cop check and the set of results in can produce? can you give us specifics about what possible set of results you have and how the check is performed? is it a true alignment check or are you checking for second order objects like "gun" which might give inno on mafia doctors (typically considered "unarmed"), and guilty on other cops or vigilantes, etc. And was your result specifically "town aligned" or like how explicit is the manner and set of your checks?

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:13 am There are several other speculations I have about why the day-start results ended up as I did. One fun one is this:

Results come in the fashion of: [role][target][outcome]

There could be a player that alters the announcement of one of these. For example, N1 they could have chosen to alter [target] to [Adum], such that all public announcements that involve [target] say [Adum] rather than who the players actually did target. I have no evidence for this, it's just a fun thought. The one thing that leads me to something in this general area is that in my initial speculation, all three supposed cops targeted Adum, which I think is very unlikely.

Adum does seem to be implying some sort of lightning roddy role though? For the record, I specifically submitted my action on Adum, not redirected there.

bolded is extremely key, Im live reading as Im typing this up so Im hoping this elephant in the room gets addressed because otherwise this is very unusually unlikely confluence

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:21 am I'm REALLY interested in his role clarification when that does happen, that may help us understand his thought process

the most Im willing to say right now is my fundamental misunderstanding was that I believe I could use my action and the action would have its impact on the same night I used my ability when in reality my ability doesnt actually come into effect until the night FOLLOWING the night I use my ability. I hope this helps you understand why I very clearly had a completely different interpretation of the events that I am completely retracting but I don't want to give away too much to again make the scum have very hard and murky EV choices

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:20 pm Okay, this explanation makes sense to me.

Interesting to piece together how many night actions we have that directly or indirectly interacted with Adum to give us this situation. We have:
-You targeting Adum
-Another JoaT targeting Adum. Or a loud tracker/follower type role targeted you.
-A loud cop-type role targeting Adum
-A (presumably) mafia tailor targeting the loud cop.
-Adum claims he was also the target of the night kill.
-Some sort of defensive role targeting Adum

Adum was a very popular person last night and the confluence of events that would allow these specific results is quite unusual.

reading this after having already drafted everything previous to this message was wiiiiiiiild talk about deja vu lmao

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:40 pm @Thea, if no restrictions, why didn’t either you use your ability N1, considering you had a high chance of being killed?

solid question to ask

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 11:37 pm Because of his comments toward what he thought of his night result, I don't see him making the comments he did and being as excited as he was if he were scum. Then the dial back when he realized he misunderstood the way the ability worked.

this is the start of a beautiful new chapter for me and JC as townbros

if hes pocketing me though Ill be so mad but so proud at the same time

Seven wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 1:26 am For the record, I don't think Adum is cleared. I just think that the results nullify each other until we have more information. They should be ignored and we should read him by his play. If it's true that he was the night kill target, that would be a point in his favor, and clearing if we are dealing with one scum team.

I could see godfather!Adum having the same reaction to the results today if he was targeted by an insane cop.

incredibly salient take seven has to be town or a giga powered indy to be batting like this imo

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 6:20 am**

Seven wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 4:54 am
Reads Sort of

The worst
Seven

Adum
Bessie
Makhaira

Thea
Fred

Somi

JC

Santygrass

Moody
Wam

this is a pretty fair list and guide to POE. basically I would only significantly adjust bessie and JC. I think JC is legit scumhunting. nothing bessie has posted makes me think she is

Vote: Bessie

she feels weirdly non responsive, but im probably not giving her posts a very fair shake because the slot didnt feel great to me early on and im probably tunneling a bit but if im thinking pure mountainous I do think she is the least scumhunting slot

with NA analysis where it's at, I dont think its smart to elim anyone of me you adum thea fred for now to make night action economy difficult for scum

JC im soulreading town, unfortunately bessie seems to be to you what JC is to me this game which sucks lol because idk how im gonna convince you to trust me on bessie here but I really think Im right

wams play is within scumrange so I see where youre coming from and ultimately willing to sheep you there but idk I feel like bessie is the more likely hit relative to me being snowed by scum!wam here but that it just hubris talking so not persuasive from objective POV

moody is always difficult for me to parse but I feel like with more time his slot will be easier to figure out

santy I really didnt like voting for me and yeah its OMGUS but I also think santy is a better player than to think I was the scummiest player in that exact moment of the game so that really threw me off, seemed like subtle FUD-esque oppotunism. also Im admittedly paranoid about the slot especially with multiball possibilities

somi is probably my truest null this game

hopefully this helps you see where Im at here

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 6:23 am**

if we're in some crazy adum/seven mate world Im just fucking washed like I cant keep up with this advance level of scum theater

@adum if you believe you were responsible for the no kill I think you need to come out and walk us through it and everything you know. After seven providing what they have I think you need to lay your hand on the table especially with the unusual number of targets on you last night atleast from what we can discern

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 6:27 am**

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 1:51 am
JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 11:41 pm
Freddino18 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 11:11 pm

Neither one of us had confidence that our guesses would provide useful data
So you just did nothing?

I really hope the two of you are downplaying what you're doing in this chat of yours, because the more you talk about it all it seems to be is an alibi for one another.
They're both one-shot

right but seven's point is that thea claim you both as masons which if taken at face value is two "confirmed" town targets. absent any other PR claims, of which there were really none at EOD1, atleast no hardclaims, you and thea would have naturally been higher chance to be the NK targets because you were "cleared" to the town and at minimum are confirmed to each other which is very powerful in endgame. so given the high likelyhood one of you would be targeted N1 and thus die holstering your ability causing it to be wasted, why would you not both use your abilities to atleast try to get some use out of it even if you were to end up the NK? basically why not use the powers right away to ensure you atleast get one of them in play before getting NKd?

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 6:46 am**

As Thea puts it: these powers become better the later we can use them.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 7:25 am**

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 5:17 am Unvote

Can we get some sort of explanation one way or another...

Why the unexplained vote then unvote?

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:36 am**

bessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 3:58 am Daily rufff! (My throat is still a little irritated from the fire

OMG, I saw the fire mentioned earlier and forgot to comment but I'm glad you're ok and hope you feel better.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:35 am Maybe I'll check out the game if it still exists and somebody can link it, but I wonder if boom just did it better mechanically. Similarly to how I think creative use of the quotes would allow you to express more complex thoughts I think.
I’ll look for it.
Pre-post edit, Seven posted the link, be sure to read my analysis of reactions to BoomFrog’s gambit, maybe it will help you understand my play this game.

Saw it and you are correct. I will also say that I think the reaction there was more negative in that game for similar reasons stated here.

So it's not that you don't have boom's genius @Thea!

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:41 am Hey Bessie, would you mind explaining if your read of me changed between your last word/grrr list and if so when and why.

Particularly I'd like to know if this happened based on things that happened last game day, between the beginning of D2 and my entrance, and between my entrance and now along with the rationale.
Ok. At the time I made my list, I was unsure of you because I disagreed with your read of Theallieza, and I was considering that your reads of her were forced, and that you were looking for a reason to read her negatively [pre-post edit, refer to my BoomGambit analysis for meta on this]. Towards the day I felt a little better about you because of your interactions with me. You tend to be the town leader in every game I have played with you, so sorting you is of primary importance. I spent a lot of time N1 thinking about you because I needed to be sure you could be trusted. Call me crazy, but from what I have read since the start of D2, I now feel very strongly that you are town.

Thank you for that insight.

Oh and you never explained why you thought that Mak would've realized the wood/grrr list was serious content hiding behind jokes instead of just jokes.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:43 am Oh yeah, and Bessie, Fredd has great reads as the game goes on but has a tendency to make terrible decisions so I don't know if encouraging him to be town leader is a good idea.
He doesn’t have to be leader, but it would be nice if he posted some functional content. I am trying to encourage Fred’s development into a better mafia player. Many players in this game consider him “confirmed town”. He should step up and start playing like a confirmed townie, not like counterproductive scum.

That's fair.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:03 am**

Actually @Bessie, mind giving me some additional clarity?

You said you felt better about me towards the end of the day, mind quantifying that?

As in scumlean but less so, null, townlean, or town. Also what did you conclude I was based on giving it a lot of thought N1?

Also, anything that made changed your mind beginning of D1 before I popped in? I know that's only your first post toDay.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:54 am**

Seven wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 4:54 am
The only concern I have about Adum is his speculation that I could be indie. It doesn't fit as something my model of town!Adum would say.

I'm curious why. Could you lay out your thought process?

Makhaira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 6:12 amI do think that adums reaction lean townie, but Im also super wary of AtE these days and generally see it as scummy. but with everything playing out as it has and with your full claim as Ill be engaging with below, I am for the most part willing to accept your result over the other one that appears to be tampered with or inherently unreliable

This is NAI because you did the same thing in dancer and promised never to trust "ATE" again. But I think both conflating arguments based on emotion with having an emotional reaction and that you're choosing to dismiss having emotional reactions as likely inherently scummy is a weakness in your play. This is a game about reading people, emotional reactions are a window into their thought process. You got taken in by a faked emotional reaction (or possibly a NAI one) so the lesson should be to improve how you read an emotional reactions. Not to assume every emotional reaction is Madge pulling the wool over your eyes cause you got burned.

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:13 am The one thing that leads me to something in this general area is that in my initial speculation, all three supposed cops targeted Adum, which I think is very unlikely.

Adum does seem to be implying some sort of lightning roddy role though? For the record, I specifically submitted my action on Adum, not redirected there.
bolded is extremely key, Im live reading as Im typing this up so Im hoping this elephant in the room gets addressed because otherwise this is very unusually unlikely confluence.

Last Halloween I was directly targeted by 3 players night 2 and 4 players night 3.

I think rather than looking at the confluence itself, it makes more sense to look at the individual pieces and ask if they make sense.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:21 am I'm REALLY interested in his role clarification when that does happen, that may help us understand his thought process
the most Im willing to say right now is my fundamental misunderstanding was that I believe I could use my action and the action would have its impact on the same night I used my ability when in reality my ability doesnt actually come into effect until the night FOLLOWING the night I use my ability. I hope this helps you understand why I very clearly had a completely different interpretation of the events that I am completely retracting but I don't want to give away too much to again make the scum have very hard and murky EV choices

I'm not asking you to say anything further now, that was for when you do eventually claim.

Again, I townlean you. There's absolutely no utility in you revealing your role now. Even if it's useless for CCs and the like, it could put a target on your back if its sufficiently powerful. I'd rather you didn't talk say this tbh, but I think this element was easily interpretable from what you said previously.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:05 am**

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 7:25 am
Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 5:17 am Unvote
Can we get some sort of explanation one way or another...

Why the unexplained vote then unvote?

No reason

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 12:40 pm**

Seven wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 4:16 am
Wam wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 5:21 pm
Seven wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 5:08 pm Santy is your read on Wam based entirely of in thread content? Because I’m like fairly confident he’s scum.
Why?
I'll provide ostensible reasons: 1) You pushed the worst on something entirely superficial. This would be fine for an RVS-exiting vote, but you kept it up to the very end. 2) You bullied me into claiming.

Relevant Quotes:
Spoiler (Show/Hide)
Wam wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 3:51 pm unvote

Vote the worst

You would only be worried about bessie aura reading you if your aura is scummy

Wam wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 1:58 pm I think I have worked out what you mean. But if I'm right you need to claim all the details as otherwise we are going to lose a day as without the details your not swining this elim no matter how good you think your persuasion skills are.

I was wrong on the worst. I was open to Fred until the claim but nothing else stood out to me.

Bullied feels.like a very strong description of it to me. But I think that's an emotional reaction to.the term. I don't see how we got away from an adum elim without it.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:54 pm**

somitomi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 1:28 pm

*Ping*

I really think give us your thoughts on what's happened since you last posted in the beginning of the day.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:07 pm**

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:54 pm I really think give us your thoughts on what's happened since you last posted in the beginning of the day.

yeah, sorry, pretty much every time I sit down to catch up I get distracted by something not particularly important. But at least I checked that the RAM works in my Spectrum after the recent reverse polarity incident and I only spent a stupid amount of time doing that.
I'm catching up as I write this, but so far I'm having a hard time thinking anything through

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:09 pm**

Unvote whoever I was voting

Yeet Wam

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:17 pm**

somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:07 pm
AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:54 pm I really think give us your thoughts on what's happened since you last posted in the beginning of the day.
yeah, sorry, pretty much every time I sit down to catch up I get distracted by something not particularly important. But at least I checked that the RAM works in my Spectrum after the recent reverse polarity incident and I only spent a stupid amount of time doing that.
I'm catching up as I write this, but so far I'm having a hard time thinking anything through

Im also waiting for your input and thoughts. If you are having trouble It doesnt matter if they are simple or not fully explained. Its important that you share whats on your mind so its easier to find you / potentially help you sort your thoughts as well

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:20 pm**

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:09 pm Unvote whoever I was voting

Yeet Wam

What a tweeeeest!

Cynical view would like to know why all of a sudden you've decided to stop defending wam, cause he's got a theory.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:47 pm**

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:31 pm I don't really agree with this. We played a game a few years back where BoomFrog did nothing but Woof and Grr at people for the better part of D1 and I do not recall it being difficult for people to engage or interact with him despite the lack of complex thought. Maybe I just don't have BoomFrog's genius, but I disagree that it is impossible in principle to engage with someone whose thoughts are very brief.

You were the only person who expressed this concern, and it was in a "I want you to explain all of your reads in more detail" sense, which I wouldn't have done even if I were playing normally. Specific reads, yes, but the whole thing? Not a chance.

Without casting doubt on BoomFrog's genius, I think the novelty helped with engagement (ugh, I sound like someone giving influencer advice). Most people were perplexed a bit, it took some of us a while just to figure out it wasn't random dog noises for example, so it was for the most part the talk of D1. Whereas now as soon as someone pointed out what you were doing, I thought "okay, Thea's doing a BoomFrog, wait for it to be over" and mostly saw it as a distraction if anything.

bessie wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 1:48 am Curious that you accept Adum as confirmed non-town. Why haven’t you elaborated on this? Who do you think is scum with Adum.

I mean, yeah, I know this is pizazz and everything but at that point I haven't seen anything to cast doubt on that loud result. As we now know, Seven was speficially trying to allude to the conflicting result he apparently has, but I didn't pick up on that. I'm not good with crumbs.

Seven wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 1:26 am For the record, I don't think Adum is cleared. I just think that the results nullify each other until we have more information. They should be ignored and we should read him by his play. If it's true that he was the night kill target, that would be a point in his favor, and clearing if we are dealing with one scum team.

I could see godfather!Adum having the same reaction to the results today if he was targeted by an insane cop.

Finally, I was just about to ask you why the loud result is more likely to have been tampered with than yours.

Nonetheless, I do have the feeling Adum's reaction is more likely to come from town than scum, but I'm not at all certain if that makes you town as well.

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:17 pm Im also waiting for your input and thoughts. If you are having trouble It doesnt matter if they are simple or not fully explained. Its important that you share whats on your mind so its easier to find you / potentially help you sort your thoughts as well

Unfortunatly, most of my thoughts are still along the lines of "I have no idea what's going on" and I just spent like 1.5 hours reading ten pages of backlog and taking notes on who claimed what.
I think right now Mak is my strongest townread, the excitement at having the solve and the tone of the realisation that he misread something feels very townie to me. On the other end of the scale, I have mild suspicion of people hopping on the adum train before anyone claimed anything, but it's something I'm kind of debating with myself.
Unfortunately I must now go have a shower to preserve some semblance of a circadian rhythm

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:48 pm**

Vote bessie

Kind of vaguely feeling Bessie/Santy/JC?

Traveling for the next few days so posting will be sporadic.

Posted: **Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:49 pm**

Afternoon bark! Starting off with a few leftovers from yesterday.

Wam wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:04 pm Bessie - I said end of day 1 I felt bessie c Seven was TvS been back through and still think it is.

Wam, you never responded to my previous post. Is this still your reason for voting for me?
For arguments sake, let’s say I flip mafia. Will you move Seven from your towncore tomorrow and eliminate him?

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:28 pm
Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:21 pm Thea , Fred what have you discussed reads wise in your masonchat and when?
Thea has notes, we have not discussed them.

Sigh. Mason chat is wasted on you, Fred.

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 11:41 pm I really hope the two of you are downplaying what you're doing in this chat of yours, because the more you talk about it all it seems to be is an alibi for one another.

+1, QFT, dude you read my mind, etc.

Seven wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 4:54 am For balance reasons, I don't believe the cop was unaware that they were Insane. Being informed provides the dilemma of them having to claim when inevitably either their innocent target is on the line or the Town-thread is clearing a guilty.

I agree with this. Having the cop aware of their sanity removes the randomness that Madge dislikes, and also makes the role non-bastard.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 6:20 am this is a pretty fair list and guide to POE. basically I would only significantly adjust bessie and JC. I think JC is legit scumhunting. nothing bessie has posted makes me think she is

Vote: Bessie

she feels weirdly non responsive, but im probably not giving her posts a very fair shake because the slot didnt feel great to me early on and im probably tunneling a bit but if im thinking pure mountainous I do think she is the least scumhunting slot

I disagree, but at least you game a reason for voting for me. I’m still waiting for Wam to present an actual reason for voting for me that doesn’t just look like he is setting up two misyeets.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:36 am
bessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 3:58 am Daily rufff! (My throat is still a little irritated from the fire
OMG, I saw the fire mentioned earlier and forgot to comment but I'm glad you're ok and hope you feel better.

I hope you are feeling better too. I was very distressed when I read your opening D2 posts.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:36 am Oh and you never explained why you thought that Mak would've realized the wood/grrr list was serious content hiding behind jokes instead of just jokes.

I thought Mak had played with me enough and was used to my dry wit and odd sense of humor (which is a lot like moody’s, which is why I get him). I ponder over all the game content. I agonize over making good quality posts where I try to convey my thoughts either in a straightforward manner, or in a way that my sarcasm is detectable. I think Mak needs to play with me more often.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:03 am Actually @Bessie, mind giving me some additional clarity?

You said you felt better about me towards the end of the day, mind quantifying that?

As in scumlean but less so, null, townlean, or town. Also what did you conclude I was based on giving it a lot of thought N1?

Also, anything that made changed your mind beginning of D1 before I popped in? I know that's only your first post toDay.

2. Your questioning me at EoD was natural to what I know of your thought process. I played a game a couple of years ago where I picked out scum on the first page, maybe in their OP. That person gave me extensive busywork the entire game. Like it took me hours every night to respond. And if I didn’t respond to every detail, it was “proof” of my scumminess. I did not get this feeling from your questioning.
4. Yes.

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