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That's fine by me. I'm disinterested in having moody claim, and disinterested in explaining why rn. I can't give you anything that'll make him easier to read.

If you have a read on his day play though that would help a lot.

I am completely lost as to how I am at the bottom of so many read lists simply because I was afk during Sabrar. I don’t get the scumreads.

This doesn’t make any sense.

the worst wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:33 am That's fine by me. I'm disinterested in having moody claim, and disinterested in explaining why rn. I can't give you anything that'll make him easier to read.

If you have a read on his day play though that would help a lot.

Yeah, I've changed my mind on him claiming. The only reason why I brought it up was that scum were looking to make him the counter wagon and had the numbers: You, Madge, MB, Morgan, +

If he isn't the counterwagon it doesn't matter.

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:39 am

the worst wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:33 am That's fine by me. I'm disinterested in having moody claim, and disinterested in explaining why rn. I can't give you anything that'll make him easier to read.

If you have a read on his day play though that would help a lot.

Yeah, I've changed my mind on him claiming. The only reason why I brought it up was that scum were looking to make him the counter wagon and had the numbers: You, Madge, MB, Morgan, +

If he isn't the counterwagon it doesn't matter.

Are we in the same game? Like I am confused on simple facts.

Like Morgan says Sabrar didn’t push me even after you said they did and I thought Sabrar had.

You’re saying I would be a vote on Moody despite saying it’s Morgan + Suzaku (now replaced I think?)

I don’t get the foundation of the game and I usually have that by now. Like people just put me at the bottom without answering the question I asked and it’s downright infuriating me and I don’t know where to begin when people are ignoring facts.

Any suggestions?

MathBlade wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:37 am Are we in the same game? Like I am confused on simple facts.

Like Morgan says Sabrar didn’t push me even after you said they did and I thought Sabrar had.

You’re saying I would be a vote on Moody despite saying it’s Morgan + Suzaku (now replaced I think?)

I don’t get the foundation of the game and I usually have that by now. Like people just put me at the bottom without answering the question I asked and it’s downright infuriating me and I don’t know where to begin when people are ignoring facts.

Any suggestions?

I'm actually a bit surprised bessie still has you as her strongest scum read after my wagon analysis. This is why I was scumreading her at the end of day because she wasn't changing her view when faced with contradictory evidence. That is how she played in the recent Halloween game as scum, so if we ever get to the point of indie hunting, it's something to consider.

Bessie is known for extensive tunneling, however. Once you've gone in the hole, it's very difficult to dig your way out. Additionally, she dislikes when people claim townie and insist on their towniness, so you should probably stop doing that.

As for why you would have voted moody is because you would have had no choice. Madge had stated she would vote you over Morgan. Bessie would vote you. Jedi is voting you. Moody is voting you. Morgan is voting you. I wont be on the elimination wagon so wont be voting Morgan. So things were shifting to a gamestate where it was you versus moody, and you would have needed to crossvote.

Votecount

Votee (Votes/Elimination) - Voter(s)
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Morgan (3/6) - the worst, MathBlade, Wam
MathBlade (3/6) - moody7277, Morgan, SuperJedi224
Seven (1/6) - Märklin
the worst (1/6) - Seven

Not Voting (3): bessie, madge, xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx

Day 2 Elimination Deadline will be 10 AM PST on December 2nd.

Reminder that it takes 4 votes to eliminate by plurality and 6 to eliminate by majority.

Wam is V/LA until Tuesday midday GMT.

Still a lot going on here I see, I'll have to reread the last few pages later today when I get the time

Welcome Marklin

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:02 am

MathBlade wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:37 am Are we in the same game? Like I am confused on simple facts.

Like Morgan says Sabrar didn’t push me even after you said they did and I thought Sabrar had.

You’re saying I would be a vote on Moody despite saying it’s Morgan + Suzaku (now replaced I think?)

I don’t get the foundation of the game and I usually have that by now. Like people just put me at the bottom without answering the question I asked and it’s downright infuriating me and I don’t know where to begin when people are ignoring facts.

Any suggestions?

I'm actually a bit surprised bessie still has you as her strongest scum read after my wagon analysis. This is why I was scumreading her at the end of day because she wasn't changing her view when faced with contradictory evidence. That is how she played in the recent Halloween game as scum, so if we ever get to the point of indie hunting, it's something to consider.

Bessie is known for extensive tunneling, however. Once you've gone in the hole, it's very difficult to dig your way out. Additionally, she dislikes when people claim townie and insist on their towniness, so you should probably stop doing that.

As for why you would have voted moody is because you would have had no choice. Madge had stated she would vote you over Morgan. Bessie would vote you. Jedi is voting you. Moody is voting you. Morgan is voting you. I wont be on the elimination wagon so wont be voting Morgan. So things were shifting to a gamestate where it was you versus moody, and you would have needed to crossvote.

Like no I wouldn’t, “not have a choice”. I hate that logic. If I was AFK the rest of the day then maybe, but this game has some horrible defeatist shit.

I don’t think moody is scum so I would either push Morgan a different way or figure out the scummiest person on my wagon.

There’s not a “need” to cross vote unless 1v1. That just dilutes the VCA.

I'm back. Currently re reading day 2 will be a while!

Oh! You really are literal. Now I understand. Your play makes so much more sense now.

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:05 pm Oh! You really are literal. Now I understand. Your play makes so much more sense now.

??? When I say things I mean what I say and say what I mean ???

Like a wagon on the person counter claiming is scummy AF. I counterclaimed you (yes gambit etc I am strictly talking terminology here) and people just don’t address it so I am missing the social context here.

To me it’s really bad mafia play. It’s like running up a cop claim. Unless you have a damn good reason (which it’s all just “but my feels” or “he was afk at end of day and not on Sabrar”) there were a lot of people not on Sabrar. So the wagon on me the counter claimer who is confirmed to tell the truth unless you believe me + TW is just so mind bogglingly bad play that’s like newbie queue bad.

So I don’t know what to do with that since Vaimes is experienced and the other players are claiming experience.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it’s Morgan + Marklin because despite the damn near total agreeance Marklin is scum there’s no wagon. I threatened to block him and then the wagon on me gets worse. That is not a coincidence.

Not being able to answer mafia 101 questions while keeping your vote on me is not a coincidence. It’s not “manipulation” to expect decent play from experienced players. It’s called setting expectations.

Seven did not meet expectations by fake claiming worst visited Wisp. Therefore Seven will always be in my PoE but in response to being wagoned is now being protown. But Seven because of the gambit cannot end game and Seven is also worth a check at some point. But for now as they are protown I am okay leaving them alone.

Morgan in stark contrast shows no desire to interact with the actual arguments being made and labels it all wine. The actual question is why? Why is not a wine in front of me. There’s no dichotomy here. It’s about asking a serious strategic question:

Why would I as scum stop an elim on the worst?
Assume I am scum incorrectly:
Either A-> Worst is my buddy
Or B-> Worst is not my buddy and I defended him for brownie points.

If you still want to think I am scum despite all this you should be looking at motive/motivation. If there’s no scum motivation not scum. It’s pretty damn simple.

And yeah Bessie doesn’t like this I don’t care. The only way people get better is explaining you done goofed.

So if you push this wagon when I flip green everyone is better for it.

Seven wrote:@Moody if you're a comparison cop, your dropping of me makes even less sense considering I digging into both madge and tw.

That's not it, but apparently I'm to keep my role under my hat for now.

At this point I trust bessie and Madge, am okay with wam, WMU, SJ, the worst, and surprisingly Seven. I'm still a bit miffed about the fake claim, but she's done it before as town and so I shouldn't hold that against her.

Marklin +5 for having the same knee-jerk reaction as I did. </joke>

So my votables at this point are:

MathBlade (current), Morgan (a bit because of wagon comp), Marklin.

moody7277 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:08 pm

Seven wrote:@Moody if you're a comparison cop, your dropping of me makes even less sense considering I digging into both madge and tw.

That's not it, but apparently I'm to keep my role under my hat for now.

At this point I trust bessie and Madge, am okay with wam, WMU, SJ, the worst, and surprisingly Seven. I'm still a bit miffed about the fake claim, but she's done it before as town and so I shouldn't hold that against her.

Marklin +5 for having the same knee-jerk reaction as I did. </joke>

So my votables at this point are:

MathBlade (current), Morgan (a bit because of wagon comp), Marklin.

So your votables are me and my solve? Wtf? Consider my townread on you gone.

So your solve involves an original setup of 10-3, or a 9-3-1 with the 3p harmless to town? If you are right about your solve being the other two of my votables, and if we were to elim all my votables starting with you (not likely to happen), town wins D4 never coming near ELO.

moody7277 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:32 pm So your solve involves an original setup of 10-3, or a 9-3-1 with the 3p harmless to town? If you are right about your solve being the other two of my votables, and if we were to elim all my votables starting with you (not likely to happen), town wins D4 never coming near ELO.

I don’t do solves involving a 3P. 3P hunting is a scum claim. We can find a 3P if it exists after scum are dead.

It is factually accurate that my solve currently is Morgan + Marklin but your stock is plummeting fast.

We don’t know what this 3P is or what other things happen. It’s role madness for a reason.

Relax MB. You're not going to be eliminated so there's no reason to be riled up. It's unhelpful to keep recycling the same arguments as it clutters the thread. We have 2 days. You're being wagoned currently, but that can change.

MathBlade wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:36 pm

moody7277 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:32 pm So your solve involves an original setup of 10-3, or a 9-3-1 with the 3p harmless to town? If you are right about your solve being the other two of my votables, and if we were to elim all my votables starting with you (not likely to happen), town wins D4 never coming near ELO.

I don’t do solves involving a 3P. 3P hunting is a scum claim. We can find a 3P if it exists after scum are dead.

It is factually accurate that my solve currently is Morgan + Marklin but your stock is plummeting fast.

We don’t know what this 3P is or what other things happen. It’s role madness for a reason.

Culture clash number 17 (not actual number). Plus it seems you are extremely serious about mafia as a game. Seven is right that the state of play does not favor your elim based on my guess on how our current undecideds would vote and Seven's notice of intent versus Morgan. She's also right on how things are likely to change closer to EoD. The Sabrar wagon to maybe the last 12 hours of D1, I think?

the worst wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:05 am Seven you've already had me out and outed a roleblocker. Stop rolefishing pls, I think you're town and your formidable ability with a claim fishing rod isnt helping.

He did not out MathBlade. MathBlade outed himself, and then counterclaimed.

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:30 am LOL

To be clear, I agree that you shouldn't be eliminated. My vote™ is still on Morgan.

So is this before or after you read my posts and asked me about things that don't make sense to you?

MathBlade wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:37 am I am completely lost as to how I am at the bottom of so many read lists simply because I was afk during Sabrar. I don’t get the scumreads.

This doesn’t make any sense.

lol

To be frank, the fact that I'm putting my thoughts out there, asking for engagement, and receiving absolutely fuck-all is tanking my wim. At this point I'd rather just sit here and twirl a pen until you kill someone.

Morgan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:08 pm

the worst wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:05 am Seven you've already had me out and outed a roleblocker. Stop rolefishing pls, I think you're town and your formidable ability with a claim fishing rod isnt helping.

He did not out MathBlade. MathBlade outed himself, and then counterclaimed.

This is a fairly tiny point of order but Mathb wouldn't have outed if not for the fakeclaim.

the worst wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:10 pm

Morgan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:08 pm

the worst wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:05 am Seven you've already had me out and outed a roleblocker. Stop rolefishing pls, I think you're town and your formidable ability with a claim fishing rod isnt helping.

He did not out MathBlade. MathBlade outed himself, and then counterclaimed.

This is a fairly tiny point of order but Mathb wouldn't have outed if not for the fakeclaim.

I'm not surprised you aren't reading my posts, but no, MathBlade outed of his own free will, completely independent of the fakeclaim. I have talked about this, and it went completely ignored.

Or, if you want to be technical, Math *softed* his block and then outed when he read Seven's claim.

Counting posts to make sure I don't go over the limit is so annoying.

I'll come back tomorrow. Nobody who I actually wanted posts from has posted, and the people who have posted are just echoing themselves.

Morgan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:13 pm

the worst wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:10 pm

Morgan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:08 pm

He did not out MathBlade. MathBlade outed himself, and then counterclaimed.

This is a fairly tiny point of order but Mathb wouldn't have outed if not for the fakeclaim.

I'm not surprised you aren't reading my posts, but no, MathBlade outed of his own free will, completely independent of the fakeclaim. I have talked about this, and it went completely ignored.

Oh we're snarky now are we? I'm reading your posts I'm just not pickin up basically any of what youre puttin down.

If you don't think Seven's claim impacted the amount of material Mathb outed today, all I have to ask is why you think Seven is a viable pocket. Lol. That's such a negligent position it's totally wild.

Gonna dip out for a bit.