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Oh, then I am not sure since im a bit lost on the mech / decided to ignore it for a bit since there are other roles involved and somthing also going on that is better to not reveal rn. So I have it slotted as 'wait for more info'

But regardless if it was directly targeted at you, or a cop or whatever, scum is involved in that last result and would try to get the most benefit from it?

Alternative would be that its a bastard game in where an investigative is paranoid without knowing it, and for the opener statement I think thats discarded

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 4:51 pm If you really are masons, both you and your mason Fred provided less content together than most of the other players in thread individually .

I knew I could clear myself as Town at any point without issue. I don't need to provide you with content to sort me. I was interested in the content you (and others) would provide for me to sort you. I don't mind that people scumreading me and I don't feel that scumreading me for the content I produced is inherently scummy. But I am interested in the process that people used to arrive at those reads.

Fred was going to do what he was going to do, when he did it.

You saw both of you being sussed, and kept still and did almost nothing, until it was too close to EoD and you claimed the masonry. How didnt you saw that coming. As town you let both of you be suspected for most of D1 and were okay with it, when if true you should know how shitty were consensus reads / direction by your own perspective, yet you didnt show any urgency about it, just kept cool in your own movie quotes test.

Even with my best play as Town it's unusual for me to be universally townread; having one or two people scumreading me is not particularly consequential at that stage of the game. I never felt I was in any danger of elimination. When Fred was in danger, I moved to save him the moment I had the opportunity to do so. I thought it fairly likely that I would claim either late D1 or early D2 anyway. IMHO generally it's better for masons to claim early to narrow the PoE, especially in a role madness game where mafia might not be able to afford to eliminate them anyway.

Thea , Fred what have you discussed reads wise in your masonchat and when?

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:56 pm

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 5:30 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 5:09 pm Partly feels like Im antivibing with slots that are more likely town based on mech (masons clsiming early) / some previous read (in case of mak).

And sense that my view is similar to Wam. Which is something in a vaccuum makes me feel good about my townread on them? But then by looking at PoE or my read of scum maybe planning to get Adum over today with last message. I feel like they coul be simply mafia and kinda make sense. So im currently with mixed feelings there. And just troubled with the game in general

Why do you think that last role interaction message was potentially scum out to get me?

Because either you are scum (I dont think this is the case) , or a scum role (either be fake loud poster or tailor or whatever) interacted in some way and provided a red on you.

Its like , fairly obvious thats something scum will latch on to get you yeeted since its best scenario for them (free argument to push without committing on a read+vocal townie out with a yeet. Specially if they tried to kill you like you are theorizing, scum indeed wants you dead.)

I think Seven is right here. The ability that messed with the loud cop's result was not something that could have targeted Adum since it presumably should have also affected Seven's result. Or possibly the cop is insane.

If scum targeted the cop, they would know it was thanks to them Adum is showed with a wrong role thanks to their doing, even if they didnt targeted them directly

The cop being insane massively simplifies what happened last night. Unless whoever flipped the cop results can multitarget.

On the mechanics note, anyone else think a loud results cop is probably just too strong for a setup? Even an insane one.

Whats specifically an insane cop?

Maybe I am thinking a different role

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:44 am

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:58 pm I'm Old Joe from Looper. I am a mason with Fred, as I've said, who is confirmed Town in my PM, and we have a private chat. We both each also have a (different) one-shot loud power that neither of us used last night. I'm not sure that there's any benefit to revealing the details on that at this stage.

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 7:13 pm I am James Cole, I am a town Mason with Thea, and I have an unused one-shot loud non-kill night ability

You don't have to go into detail, but are there any other restrictions on your abilities? I just need a yes or no.

No.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 8:05 pmI have similar feelings about Seven who I felt of all people in this game should have had a reasonable idea of what I was attempting to do and why.

I understood what you were doing. Can you point to what gave you the impression that I didn't? I also very much enjoyed it, particularly because it was clear what you were saying. Do you believe you should have been town read for it?

Not necessarily, but I don't think I did anything that would reasonably warrant a strong scum read either. As I said to Santy, I don't think scumreading me in and of itself is a problem, it's how and why those reads came about.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 8:05 pmA lot of people were asking me about JC, which, IDK, he has seemed more coherent and solid than any game I have ever seen him in, so I felt that was worth a Town lean. It's possible that he is similar to Wam in that the quality of his posting improves as scum, but it was enough for a start.

These were the posts JC had made at the point you put him as a town lean:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 2:51 pm Well hello there.

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:02 pm I can already tell this is going to be a fun game. So much activity already.

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:47 pm I think the question should be how long is Thea going to keep this up?

If you're not able to empathize with someone who thought it was peculiar that you were town leaning him from these, that is more on you I think.

I guess. I do vibe reads on very little in D1 all the time. As I said to Adum, I'll concede this was probably not an optimal strategy for me as a whole..

That being said, I will lay out my role and speculation since several people are asking for clarification.

Btw, if you are lying about your result here and Adum is mafia I will be very upset. Unless you're both mafia, in which case, well done.

Town
Thea
Fred
Mak
Seven
Adum
JC
Somi
Moody
Bessie
Santy
Wam
Scum

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:51 pm Whats specifically an insane cop?

Maybe I am thinking a different role

Insane gets the opposite role, paranoid always gets non town

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:59 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:44 am

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:58 pm I'm Old Joe from Looper. I am a mason with Fred, as I've said, who is confirmed Town in my PM, and we have a private chat. We both each also have a (different) one-shot loud power that neither of us used last night. I'm not sure that there's any benefit to revealing the details on that at this stage.

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 7:13 pm I am James Cole, I am a town Mason with Thea, and I have an unused one-shot loud non-kill night ability

You don't have to go into detail, but are there any other restrictions on your abilities? I just need a yes or no.

No.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 8:05 pmI have similar feelings about Seven who I felt of all people in this game should have had a reasonable idea of what I was attempting to do and why.

I understood what you were doing. Can you point to what gave you the impression that I didn't? I also very much enjoyed it, particularly because it was clear what you were saying. Do you believe you should have been town read for it?

Not necessarily, but I don't think I did anything that would reasonably warrant a strong scum read either. As I said to Santy, I don't think scumreading me in and of itself is a problem, it's how and why those reads came about.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 8:05 pmA lot of people were asking me about JC, which, IDK, he has seemed more coherent and solid than any game I have ever seen him in, so I felt that was worth a Town lean. It's possible that he is similar to Wam in that the quality of his posting improves as scum, but it was enough for a start.

These were the posts JC had made at the point you put him as a town lean:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 2:51 pm Well hello there.

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:02 pm I can already tell this is going to be a fun game. So much activity already.

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:47 pm I think the question should be how long is Thea going to keep this up?

If you're not able to empathize with someone who thought it was peculiar that you were town leaning him from these, that is more on you I think.

I guess. I do vibe reads on very little in D1 all the time. As I said to Adum, I'll concede this was probably not an optimal strategy for me as a whole..

That being said, I will lay out my role and speculation since several people are asking for clarification.

Btw, if you are lying about your result here and Adum is mafia I will be very upset. Unless you're both mafia, in which case, well done.

Town
Thea
Fred
Mak
Seven
Adum
JC
Somi
Moody
Bessie
Santy
Wam
Scum

Why mak.over seven?

So have started this post and got distracted multiple.times this afternoon so apologies for any mistakes.

So I think we can POE this out

Town core
Adum
Seven
Fred
Thea

Possible elim targets
Bessie
JC
Makhaira
Moody
Santygrass
Somi
Wam

Within the above I have the following reads

Town
JC - I haven't changed my day 1 read of this is the .most town JC has looked.

Mak - this feels Town Mak but I'm a little bit questioning of them still being stuck on adum

Santy - got a town lean but will admit based on the 1 game this could be within santys scum range.

Moody - a null read on moody I haven't seen much to sway me.either way. Waiting to see what his promised deep look shows

Somi - feels a bit off needs a re read.

Bessie - I said end of day 1 I felt bessie c Seven was TvS been back through and still think it is.

Scum

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:51 pm Whats specifically an insane cop?

Maybe I am thinking a different role

Cop that produces nonTown result when they target Town and Town result when they target nonTown.

Wam wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:03 pm

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:59 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:44 am
You don't have to go into detail, but are there any other restrictions on your abilities? I just need a yes or no.

No.

I understood what you were doing. Can you point to what gave you the impression that I didn't? I also very much enjoyed it, particularly because it was clear what you were saying. Do you believe you should have been town read for it?

Not necessarily, but I don't think I did anything that would reasonably warrant a strong scum read either. As I said to Santy, I don't think scumreading me in and of itself is a problem, it's how and why those reads came about.

These were the posts JC had made at the point you put him as a town lean:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

If you're not able to empathize with someone who thought it was peculiar that you were town leaning him from these, that is more on you I think.

I guess. I do vibe reads on very little in D1 all the time. As I said to Adum, I'll concede this was probably not an optimal strategy for me as a whole..

That being said, I will lay out my role and speculation since several people are asking for clarification.

Btw, if you are lying about your result here and Adum is mafia I will be very upset. Unless you're both mafia, in which case, well done.

Town
Thea
Fred
Mak
Seven
Adum
JC
Somi
Moody
Bessie
Santy
Wam
Scum

Why mak.over seven?

Poorly defined worry about Seven lying about his result to save his partner.

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:51 pm Whats specifically an insane cop?

Maybe I am thinking a different role

I've heard it use for any cop that doesn't see town when they target town and scum when they target scum consistently, because all the variations (naive, paranoid, etc.) are often referred to as sanities, and the afore mentioned regular cop is referred to as sane.

But as others have said, we usually use it specifically for the "reversed" variation.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:13 pm

Wam wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:03 pm

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:59 pm

No.


Not necessarily, but I don't think I did anything that would reasonably warrant a strong scum read either. As I said to Santy, I don't think scumreading me in and of itself is a problem, it's how and why those reads came about.



I guess. I do vibe reads on very little in D1 all the time. As I said to Adum, I'll concede this was probably not an optimal strategy for me as a whole..



Btw, if you are lying about your result here and Adum is mafia I will be very upset. Unless you're both mafia, in which case, well done.

Town
Thea
Fred
Mak
Seven
Adum
JC
Somi
Moody
Bessie
Santy
Wam
Scum

Why mak.over seven?

Poorly defined worry about Seven lying about his result to save his partner.

But for that to work Seven would have to have targeted his partner n1 with a cop power? Given the lack of a counter claim I can't see another option?

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:06 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:51 pm Whats specifically an insane cop?

Maybe I am thinking a different role

Cop that produces nonTown result when they target Town and Town result when they target nonTown.

And the cop knows they have that modifier?
As in, the insane cop that targeted Adum would know that result was possibly not accurate ?

If thats not the case, isnt that considered bastard?

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:13 pm
Poorly defined worry about Seven lying about his result to save his partner.

I am gonna say that she considers bussing suboptimal.

That said, as Wan correctly points out, copping a partner is really unlikely unless I'm a loud results voyeur. Which doesn't seem reasonable unless we knew the cop was coming.

That said, I do have a tiny bit of paranoia that Seven is an indy JOAT that was hunting for otherscum and saw a pocketing opportunity.

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:29 pm

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:06 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:51 pm Whats specifically an insane cop?

Maybe I am thinking a different role

Cop that produces nonTown result when they target Town and Town result when they target nonTown.

And the cop knows they have that modifier?
As in, the insane cop that targeted Adum would know that result was possibly not accurate ?

If thats not the case, isnt that considered bastard?

The cop sanities, minus random, not only are considered "not bastard", they're considered normal. That includes the cop not being aware of them.

The key phrase is "reasonably anticipated". A lot of stuff has been grandfathered in and normalized for the cop because people have gotten used to it that would be unacceptable for other roles.

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:29 pm

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:06 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:51 pm Whats specifically an insane cop?

Maybe I am thinking a different role

Cop that produces nonTown result when they target Town and Town result when they target nonTown.

And the cop knows they have that modifier?
As in, the insane cop that targeted Adum would know that result was possibly not accurate ?

If thats not the case, isnt that considered bastard?

I think the modifier is usually hidden... otherwise it's kinda pointless. Unless the insane cop is mafia, I guess.

I see.

To me roles having hidden conditionals is more bastard than a mod poster f.e. , I guess its just a culture/meta difference then. But *noted*

Also dont forget about the masonchat reads questions thea pls and tyvm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:21 pm Thea , Fred what have you discussed reads wise in your masonchat and when?

We haven't really discussed reads at all because Fred doesn't really have any as of yet (or he's not telling me for some reason). I have some notes in the chat, most of which I've talked about publicly at this point.

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:43 pm I see.

To me roles having hidden conditionals is more bastard than a mod poster f.e. , I guess its just a culture/meta difference then. But *noted*

It's literally just cop, and only for paranoid(all investigations return scum), naive (all investigations return town), and insane (all investigations return the opposite of the actual alignment).

And this was only implemented because of the immense power of the role, it's little different than roles like miller and godfather existing, just from the other end.

Personally, it annoys me. I'd rather cops be used sparingly or depowered via known modifiers, but it is too standardized of a balancing decision to not be an easily anticipated moderator lie.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:36 pm
And the cop knows they have that modifier?
As in, the insane cop that targeted Adum would know that result was possibly not accurate ?

If thats not the case, isnt that considered bastard?

I think the modifier is usually hidden... otherwise it's kinda pointless. Unless the insane cop is mafia, I guess.
[/quote]

It's not pointless for naive and paranoid cop if you're making a backdoor mountainous!

But ya, that they're a scum cop hunting for other scum is a possible explanation for the role.

Ebwop: garbled quote tag, should read like this:

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:36 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:29 pm And the cop knows they have that modifier?
As in, the insane cop that targeted Adum would know that result was possibly not accurate ?

If thats not the case, isnt that considered bastard?

I think the modifier is usually hidden... otherwise it's kinda pointless. Unless the insane cop is mafia, I guess.

Santygrass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:21 pm Thea , Fred what have you discussed reads wise in your masonchat and when?

Thea has notes, we have not discussed them.