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messie wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 1:54 pm So if you and wam both claim FV, then I'd ask you both to claim your species (like I said, I suspected a cat might leave a dead mouse: check my chat log after the game lol). Then I'd ask whoever claimed the more suspicious species/was more suspicious overall to claim what the gift was.

Then I'd vote for whoever got it wrong / was more suspicious of the two who got it right, and pray.

Okay, that tracks with what I was thinking, although I have targeted Wam yesterday to make sure at least one person would confirm me. Don't know why I did that, I hate being kingmaker, the responsibility is eating at my soul. I have skimmed a bunch of D1 and D2 stuff again, mostly so it feels less like I'm going on gut feel, but I don't think there's much I could ask either of you, most of that stuff has been discussed already. The thing that sticks out in my mind is how messie managed to stay alive all this time despite multiple people suspecting her, reminds me of that post I've read about powerwolfing.

I get the impression that nobody else has anything to say, so here goes:
Vote: messie

Sheep Sabrar for the win (?)

Right choice somi!

"We should wait for sloth," said elephant.

"No need," purred the house cat. "It is clear who it is."

She lashed her tail back and forth, warily eying the wolf spider before her, "The wolf spider poisoned the King. It is the only thing that makes sense."

Before the elephant could respond, she leaped forward and swiped at the spider with her paw, launching it into the crater. The elephant trumpeted angrily as they all watched.

Waited.

Then, they heard a faint, shrill laugh, "You fools, it was I all along. Kookaburra and I slew the King, and you have failed the ritual."

The house cat hissed angrily as she stared at the grinning form the preying mantis as he turned and sprinted away from the volcano. "The King is dead!" shouted the mantid, running past the lumbering sloth who had just reached the top of the volcano.

"Isn't someone going to stop him?" asked sloth, "It has preying mantis and kookaburra who killed the King."

The elephant sighed and shook her head. "I'm afraid not. The ritual has failed. There are dark times ahead for the Animal Kingdom.

messie was swatted into the volcano. She was Wolf Spider, Vanilla TOWN

somitomi, House Cat (TOWN Compulsive Fruit Vendor) was endgamed.

MAFIA WINS

They were Wam, Preying Mantis (MAFIA Goon) and BoomFrog Kookaburra (MAFIA Tracker)

Good game everyone, thanks for playing. Shout outs and role PMs to follow.

Good game everyone.

As I said in spoilers Somi apologies for my post above it was very dickish of me. I hate that kingmaker situation as well.

Good game everyone!

The hydra experiment was fun. It was especially good because I had a bunch of stuff happen that meant I didn't have time for the game around ~D2/D3 but Bessie was able to hold down the fort.

It really reminds me how much I love the endgame of mafia and the logic puzzle aspect, which is why I don't like the early days. Get me some claims, damnit!

Bessie was *absolutely certain* that we were poisoned or arsoned because the dead mouse was a dead animal and it meant someone was out there killing all the animals.

Looking forward to reading spoilers, especially since I have the messie account which doesn't have the filter lol

Laser happy for you to share scumchat if you want too. Thank you for running the game.

The pivotal moment that I think swung it in scums favour was the mak elim which I still don't know where it came from.

Dammit. Well played.

Sorry, Messie

Good game all. Wam had me fooled I think late game. I think after my near miss in Halloween and then this game, I'm going to start policy voting him from now on, just to be safe!

I agree with wam's analysis that the Mak elimination was a major issue. That was town paranoia at its best. Heury's elimination was also bad. If messie had been eliminated instead on either occasion, it would at least have meant that the lingering suspicion on her was dispelled.

Yeah, I actually think Bessie may have been in the right to avoid tactical voting as a VT: if we'd just gone down with the ship then, then we wouldn't be stuck in this position where everyone's scumread for the first 4 or 5 days is up against wam who has a scummy meta and thus can have scumminess somewhat excused.

I'll have to think of things with more strategery in future.

It's funny I got a bad feeling about wam during my interactions read-through and I couldn't shake it. But I couldn't point to anything. But I think this is the sort of thing that bessie talks about when she says I'm "crazy like a fox" except she says something much more complimentary

How did you guys find the hydra? Like, should we play it again? I'm very tempted. I'd also be happy to hydra with someone who also doesn't necessarily have time/availability and hope we can add up to a single player.

Wam - Way to pull it through to the end! As I said in spoilers we were given a gift D1 and I made things much harder for us. I'm glad things worked out or I'd feel more guilty.

Phillip - You've got good instincts, you trusted the right people. But also thanks for officially bowing out when you knew the game want for you. Glad you gave the game a try.

Heury - I would have been so against your elemination if I was town. You played a good game, it was weird to me that you got so much flak.

messie (bessie/Madge) - You guys played well, I liked the Hydra, I feel your schedules helped balance each other out. I think my implosion D1 was somewhat townie boomfrog but your collective love of my shenanigans might have blinded you a bit.

Sabrar - You make me nervous when I'm scum and you are town. Unwavering scrutiny.

somitomi - Tough situation in the end. If you were more townie in early days you could get NEed and leave it to someone else.

Eido - You played a solid game. It is frustrating as scum when someone gets accurately town read based only on tone.

Makhaira - Also a very solid game. You got me D1. Although I do think I would have town read you for the role fishing if I was town, but you are probably right that I was influenced by not wanting to attack too many people at once. The dynamic D3 was weird. I think you came off as trying to steer town and be controlling and that gave you a scummy vibe.

Mark_Cangila - You were on to us D2! You were the only one who seriously consider wam+Boom theatre. Well spotted.

EBWOP: and jimbob of course. - Thanks for replacing in and giving such a solid effort. That's the kind of thing that keeps this community strong.

Good game everyone.

Wam wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:13 pm As I said in spoilers Somi apologies for my post above it was very dickish of me. I hate that kingmaker situation as well.

Was it? I had interpreted it as follow-through. Always maintain the illusion until the mod ends the game.

For the future never, ever eliminate someone the day after they played a key role in eliminating scum unless it's lylo.

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:44 pm Good game everyone.

Wam wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:13 pm As I said in spoilers Somi apologies for my post above it was very dickish of me. I hate that kingmaker situation as well.

Was it? I had interpreted it as follow-through. Always maintain the illusion until the mod ends the game.

I was going for maintaining the illusion but imo came out dickesh!

Good game! You guys are very fun.

Thank you Laser for hosting.

And you too, Barry. There is no way a bee should be able to fly.

PPS. @messie: The opening and closing dog commentary was delightful. I enjoyed it all game.

The chats for the game are available here
https://discord.gg/2HWd3wW4gQ

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:00 pm I was going for maintaining the illusion but imo came out dickesh!

Well, can't say you didn't get my hopes up, but no problem

I think I owe an apology to Makhaira as well, as I said in Gojoe, I got way too paranoid about BoomFrog outsmarting us.

somitomi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:50 am I think I owe an apology to Makhaira as well, as I said in Gojoe, I got way too paranoid about BoomFrog outsmarting us.

To be fair, he basically did. Just not in the way you thought.

Just want to thank everyone foremost for playing such a clean, respectful game. This was really fun to read and there was very little moderation or problems that I needed to worry about. I think both sides played very solidly and had good chances right up to the end.

I leaned into making this a low powered game, which I prefer, especially for smaller setups, but in hindsight maybe giving Town two medium strength power roles instead of one strong and one weak might have been better, as the loss of the doctor D1 basically left the setup essentially pure vanilla other than somi getting a clear at the end of the game.


Shout outs:

Wam: Very impressive game. You and Boom played off each other really well and had some very convincing scum theatre.

Phillip: I think you had good instincts about who you were comfortable trusting. I'm sorry the game wasn't really to your taste, but thanks for giving it a try.

jimbobmacdoodle: Thanks for subbing! Replacing into a game so late is always a challenge and I really appreciate the effort you put in.

Heury: Tough break on that D1 elimination. Would have been very interesting how differently the game would have played out if you had the opportunity to claim. I agree with Boom that you actually felt much more solidly townie this game than the last two I've seen you play, so I'm surprised you ended up being eliminated so early (granted, you were counterwagon to scum).

messie (bessie/Madge): It was fun seeing you guys work together. I'm kind of amused that uber-town bessie + uber-town Madge = perpetually scumread messie. I was thinking that possibly having you guys editing/polishing your posts as much as you did may have given a you weird vibe/tone that people were picking up on.

Sabrar: I've been really impressed with your new non-tunneling style. Your reads have been consistently very sharp and you've been a consistent threat to scum (to the point I think almost every game I've seen you as Town you were NKed N1!)

somitomi: That was a really tough LYLO. I had honestly no clue which way you were going to go with it. I kind of feel like maybe the Mod Madness threw you guys off a bit in LYLO and if you had all taken more time to review and poke around a bit you might have had better chances. I think you used your fruit vendor power about as good as could have been reasonably done to clear yourself (the logic that you were basically a decoy for the scum tracker was correct as far as how I saw the usefulness of the role).

Eido: It's hard to believe that you are as good as you are with so few games under your belt. Your analysis is always very astute, you ask good questions, and you always come across as very townie. You also absolutely had the right instincts on Wam in D2 and I was really hoping you would follow up on that after Boom's flip.

BoomFrog: I always enjoy watching you play as scum. You did a great job of sowing confusion and distancing from Wam in a way that came across as very believable.

Makhaira: You played a great game. I was really shocked that you ended up being eliminated as you were solid Towncore as far as I was concerned. Thanks for signing up. I hope you'll play again sometime.

Mark_Cangila: You had great reads this game and were the only person who saw clearly through the scum theatre. Take it as a badge of honour that you were NKed for having great reads.

osieorb: Thanks for agreeing to mentor!

Seven: Thanks for co-hosting with me and helping me avoid some nearly catastrophic Discord failures at the start.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:54 am

somitomi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:50 am I think I owe an apology to Makhaira as well, as I said in Gojoe, I got way too paranoid about BoomFrog outsmarting us.

To be fair, he basically did. Just not in the way you thought.

Yeah, all right. Still, I locked onto the big scum theater idea instead of examining the other options more thoroughly on D3.