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Also, Thea's role point on Madge is weak, but I realize now that this is more likely town Thea. I also don't think Madge as scum, would respond to Thea with a big post that draws a major connection between them, if Thea was her mate.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:45 pm I didn't say Madge might have a Town role, by the way. I said she does. She revealed her role, and I do not think she did it in a way that is intentional, so I consider it a full clear. If she is anything but Vanilla Town this game I will be genuinely shocked.

Does this change your mind:

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:01 am Flavorful closed, non-bastard, non-pr madness setup.

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:56 pm

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:45 pm I didn't say Madge might have a Town role, by the way. I said she does. She revealed her role, and I do not think she did it in a way that is intentional, so I consider it a full clear. If she is anything but Vanilla Town this game I will be genuinely shocked.

Does this change your mind:

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:01 am Flavorful closed, non-bastard, non-pr madness setup.

My internal Madge meta says that as a last minute replacement who didn't know the flavour was a song, I doubt very much that she read that. But I will concede that scum!Madge with daychat would possibly know the one but not the other, so it's maybe not as strong of tell as I would like.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:13 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:56 pm

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:45 pm I didn't say Madge might have a Town role, by the way. I said she does. She revealed her role, and I do not think she did it in a way that is intentional, so I consider it a full clear. If she is anything but Vanilla Town this game I will be genuinely shocked.

Does this change your mind:

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:01 am Flavorful closed, non-bastard, non-pr madness setup.

My internal Madge meta says that as a last minute replacement who didn't know the flavour was a song, I doubt very much that she read that. But I will concede that scum!Madge with daychat would possibly know the one but not the other, so it's maybe not as strong of tell as I would like.

I'd bet a bar of gold-pressed latinum that she read the sign-up post after day start looking for mechanical info.

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:43 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2024 8:59 pmDo you agree or disagree with the points I made on him and why?

@Alli are the points I made on moody NAI or Scum-indicative?

I agree connecting Bessie/me based on the confirmation analysis is a strange thought. It's such a blatant interaction that it's not the type of thing you would expect scummates to likely do.

I don't know about the Fred analysis. I find it convoluted to follow but I have seen people read stranger things based on tone in RVS.

1. Makhaira - Sitting back and letting EGW stir the pot?

2. Wam - I'd vote them for sheeping onto EGW, their plays in hindsight will look like a

3. Bessie - Woof, town vibes all around so far

4. heuristically_alone -null

5. Gluelock - Wolfiest of wolves, obvi. Be careful of people pushing me just to "secure an elim" that will be a tool wolves use all game to pressure townies into voting on whatever wagon is currently available.

8. Theallieza - The quote "IDK about Gluelock, you may well be right there, but if your entire case on Gluelock is based on me/Madge then it will be dumb luck." is a dead giveaway they are likely town.

9. somitomi - town lean

10. Freddino18 - null

11. moody7277 - ATP will self-pres and vote here since he's the next leading wagon

12. JC_DADDY25 - After reading Wam's insight on JC, JC seems to be acting their usual selves which always from my experience comes across as not trying to solve.

13. EGW -- Clearly they are a big voice in this game, I'm typically drawn to scum reading the louder ones as often they're power wolves controlling the narrative. Knowing that I'm one of their biggest scum reads, and that I'm wrong its either a) an innocent townie tunnel visioned on me or b) loud wolf spinning something out of nothing (I've barely been playing so props to them for building this wagon on me). Either way they are generating content valuable for late game so good for them.

I'll probably not have any stronger theories until D2 if I even make it there.

Vote: Moody7277

Gluelock wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:33 pm 1. Makhaira - Sitting back and letting EGW stir the pot?

2. Wam - I'd vote them for sheeping onto EGW, their plays in hindsight will look like a

3. Bessie - Woof, town vibes all around so far

4. heuristically_alone -null

5. Gluelock - Wolfiest of wolves, obvi. Be careful of people pushing me just to "secure an elim" that will be a tool wolves use all game to pressure townies into voting on whatever wagon is currently available.

8. Theallieza - The quote "IDK about Gluelock, you may well be right there, but if your entire case on Gluelock is based on me/Madge then it will be dumb luck." is a dead giveaway they are likely town.

9. somitomi - town lean

10. Freddino18 - null

11. moody7277 - ATP will self-pres and vote here since he's the next leading wagon

12. JC_DADDY25 - After reading Wam's insight on JC, JC seems to be acting their usual selves which always from my experience comes across as not trying to solve.

13. EGW -- Clearly they are a big voice in this game, I'm typically drawn to scum reading the louder ones as often they're power wolves controlling the narrative. Knowing that I'm one of their biggest scum reads, and that I'm wrong its either a) an innocent townie tunnel visioned on me or b) loud wolf spinning something out of nothing (I've barely been playing so props to them for building this wagon on me). Either way they are generating content valuable for late game so good for them.

I'll probably not have any stronger theories until D2 if I even make it there.

Vote: Moody7277

What about Seven/Madge? You skipped from 5 to 8.

You also didn't finish your sentence on Wam.

That said, I think Glue wagon is high probability going to be bad.

Gluelock wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:33 pm 1. Makhaira - Sitting back and letting EGW stir the pot?

2. Wam - I'd vote them for sheeping onto EGW, their plays in hindsight will look like an opportunistic wolf hitching a ride on town's tunnel vision.

3. Bessie - Woof, town vibes all around so far

4. heuristically_alone -null

5. Gluelock - Wolfiest of wolves, obvi. Be careful of people pushing me just to "secure an elim" that will be a tool wolves use all game to pressure townies into voting on whatever wagon is currently available.


Pasted this list from the page 1 mod post, didn't realize they were missing

6. Madge - I don't trust wall posters, so yes my RVS vote on her was partly inspired by that, partly by the joke of getting noticed, and partly random. Since then nothing outside of the wall posts has pinged me.

7. Seven - I don't know how to read Seven, like at all. That said, they feel different this game then I remember them being last time we played. I'm willing to put them in a scum lean for that alone right now.

8. Theallieza - The quote "IDK about Gluelock, you may well be right there, but if your entire case on Gluelock is based on me/Madge then it will be dumb luck." is a dead giveaway they are likely town.

9. somitomi - town lean

10. Freddino18 - null

11. moody7277 - ATP will self-pres and vote here since he's the next leading wagon

12. JC_DADDY25 - After reading Wam's insight on JC, JC seems to be acting their usual selves which always from my experience comes across as not trying to solve.

13. EGW -- Clearly they are a big voice in this game, I'm typically drawn to scum-reading the louder ones as often they're power wolves controlling the narrative. Knowing that I'm one of their biggest scum reads, and that I'm wrong its either a) an innocent townie tunnel visioned on me or b) loud wolf spinning something out of nothing (I've barely been playing so props to them for building this wagon on me). Either way they are generating content valuable for late game so good for them.

I'll probably not have any stronger theories until D2 if I even make it there.

Vote: Moody7277

EBWODP

Admittedly, I am a good vote. Not because I'll flip wolf but simply I'm spinning a lot of plates irl right now and -- as some have adeptly picked up on -- don't have the usual bandwidth available for this game which is making me appear less "towny" looking for a solve than I usually am.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:45 pm That said, I think Glue wagon is high probability going to be bad.

The language here is ambiguous. What do you mean?

Also what's your updated read on Gluelock.

JC
post 1: afk message
post 2: catching up message
post 3: sus of Fred due to him wanting to hammer Glue
post 4: thread progress slow
post 5: cont from post 4
post 6: asking Fred about response
post 7: asking Fred about further content from Glue
post 8: notes Seven's opinion of extensions
post 9: asking Fred about his "no NK" comment
post 10: follow up on question in post 9
post 11: Seven scummy, Fred/Glue connection, bessie, EGW, Mak town

Biggest thing I notice is the huge preoccupation with Fred, which in players not named bessie I find odd. Reads in the last post are a little ad hoc. Rating -0.5

Seven: Gluelock shrooped on Wam. Thoughts?

So at work, another day another dollar, will be on at EoD unless I am required to do my job, and will try and check for new posts every 30-60 minutes until deadline.

I'd really rather not elim gluelock today, there's few people I find townier than him. If we can move to JC, Heury, Moody, Wam, Somi, Mak, or Thea I'd be inclined as I think that group likely has multiple scum in it.

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:19 pmI'd bet a bar of gold-pressed latinum that she read the sign-up post after day start looking for mechanical info.

Pay up, unironically I expect to sit here, ask questions, and have Bessie come up and give me cited responses like in literally every other game. Why would I read anything myself? (note: I probably will go back and read through things when I have mechanical things to make sense of, but right now there's no mechanical info and I don't necessarily anticipate to have access to mechanical info any time soon, so yeah)


My readslist again (nothing in there is a joke; identical to last post, I just EBWOP some phrasing)

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Townie: Fred, Gluelock, Mak, Somi (roughly that order)

Neutral: Thea, Wam, Moody (again roughly that order)

Voteable: JC, Heury (this is a tossup)

Perfectly within their meta but I struggle to read them: Seven (don't like the extension stuff but nulltell IMO), Bessie, EGW (scummiest on this triad for completely ignoring the context in my readslist that they quoted)

Based on the above, I'm not joining the gluelock wagon unless it's to avoid Fred, Seven, Bessie, and maybe EGW being voted off. Or if it's at EOD to avoid a no-lim.

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 10:03 pm

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:45 pm That said, I think Glue wagon is high probability going to be bad.

The language here is ambiguous. What do you mean?

I expect a town flip with >1 wolves in the wagon.

Maybe exactly 1, actually.

Gluelock is too willing to be voted for inactivity, so slight town lean

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:48 pm

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 5:22 am Human
EGW
Somi
Heury
Madge
Freddino

Why do you have yourself only 3rd on human side?

I am reading others as more human than myself.

Bessie- buddying me quite a bit this game, moreso than I recall before.

When was bessie buddying you?
There's text that feels from her just for me. I tend to town read Bessie immediately, so feels like expecting/wanting me to town read her this game. Though now that I think about it, town Bessie would want that too.

Thea- fundamentally disagree with read on me

How so?

It is factually incorrect.

Thea at least twice has emphasized how we should expect their tone to be different as this account that other account, thus insistent that we don't scum them based off of being different that perceived town meta.

*ebwop

Gluelock is too willing to be voted for inactivity, so slight town lean

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:48 pm

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 5:22 am Human
EGW
Somi
Heury
Madge
Freddino

Why do you have yourself only 3rd on human side?

Bessie- buddying me quite a bit this game, moreso than I recall before.

When was bessie buddying you?

Thea- fundamentally disagree with read on me

How so?

It is factually incorrect.

I am reading others as more human than myself.

There's text from Bessie that feels from her just for me. I tend to town read Bessie immediately, so feels like expecting/wanting me to town read her this game. Though now that I think about it, town Bessie would want that too.

Thea at least twice has emphasized how we should expect their tone to be different as this account that other account, thus insistent that we don't scum them based off of being different that perceived town meta.

Today willing to vote mak, moody or JC in no particular order. maybe wam if you pull my finger but town wam is so useful late game.

well, we need 7 votes.

So we've got two willing to move to mak/moody/JC.

per above, players with votes are as below:

5. Gluelock - 5: Moody7277, Seven, Wan, Somitimi, EGW
7. Seven - 1: Freddino18
11. moody7277 - 3*: Theallieza, Makhaira, Gluelock
12. JC_DADDY25 - 1: madge

If you and I move to moody, that'll put moody on 5, which might be our best chance of changing to a more acceptable target for us. Is anyone else willing to vote moody? What about JC? Or are people set on gluelock? (note: Mak is in my townie box so on recflection I'm not confident enough in my read that Gluelock is townier than Mak to shift a wagon in that direction)

* @mod: can you confirm moody in fact has 3 votes and not the 2 you said in your post? I assume it's a typo?

EGW wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 1:46 pm

Makhaira wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 5:45 pm Meant the coalition on gluelock* doesn't look great and that I prefer moody elim to glue*

Can you explain how you made that mix up in the first place? Also update me on your reads.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 4:20 pm Vote count 3
1. Makhaira - 0:
2. Wam - 1: EGW
3. Bessie - 0:
4. heuristically_alone - 0:
5. Gluelock - 3: Moody7277, Wan, Madge
6. Madge - 2: Gluelock, Seven
7. Seven - 0:
8. Theallieza - 0:
9. somitomi - 0:
10. Freddino18 - 0:
11. moody7277 - 2: Theallieza, Makhaira
12. JC_DADDY25 - 0:
13. EGW - 1: Freddino18

Yes Extension - 6 : Theallieza, EGW, Makhaira, Bessie, Madge, Wan
No Extension - 0 : Seven

The deadline is set for Friday September 6th at 12 am EST.

They were right next to each other on this votecount which is on the same page as my post, I was scrolling up to it and looking at people on each specific wagon and just mixed them up when I typed up the post because I just was typing it up too quickly and got the wagons mixed up

Current reads in order from town to scum:

EGW - no way scum!EGW banks on holding on to a "true" scum read on me hoping to get a powerswap post deadline extension, I'd be genuinely shocked

Freddino18 - slot seems to genuinely not give a fuck about anyone else's perception of his slot which skews town for me, also his posts make me laugh

Seven - good acting re: faking stylistic flourish in ego defense on them being "wrong" and changing their mind on EGW if this is scum!Seven which is def not impossible, slot seems to be actually updating

Wam - seems to be trying to sort atleast some slots

Madge - slot is a little too self centered to be scum imo, genuinely seems to be in her own world this game and doesn't seem to be really "playing off" of any other slots or considering others' viewpoints, I would borderline consider the slots play griefing to their mates as scum tbh. Maybe entirely uncoordinated is the word I'm looking for here which skews town to me. Consistent AtE muddles the slot tho

Theallieza - levelheaded and has had some unique insights that actually keep the ball rolling, seeing some genuine sorting effort but I know scum!Thea is fully capable of faking this well so slot ranks slower due to risk of snow

somitomi - notoriously hard player for me to read, has some posts that would require better "acting" so to speak to pull off as scum so very slight town lean but also has some weird takes and reactions

Bessie - even harder slot for me to read. I think I've only seen scum!bessie once and I still feel like I didn't learn anything about her scum meta. Truest neutral read in the game for me. I generally have to just rely on her voting patterns to read her, her prose is so static its inscrutable to me

Gluelock - entrance to the game was kinda dumb and unhelpful (babyjesus vibes for any mafiascum forum veterans) but the wagon on the slot came too easy imo, I share thea's wariness here

moody7277 - I don't understand why what catches this slot's attention caught said attention, their focus feels alien to me and therefore not towny, but their post count analysis seems a little incongruent for a wolf that is playing a very passive role in the game so far

JC_DADDY25 - I feel bad having JC this low with him townreading me but I feel like JC generally is suss on my slot and I don't really feel like I've done anything to "earn" a townread from him so it just feels weird. also in full disclosure I am very biased against this slot due to previous in-game trauma related to treatment I've received from this slot (i.e. I'm still seething over being vigged in PYP) so this is kind of a self-pres/late game risk profile reduction placement)

heuristically_alone - taking the "oh I'm so absentminded this game awww shucks" approach feels opportunistic, don't get any feel that there is a genuine interest in solving from this slot

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:42 pm

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:45 pmit will be dumb luck.

Towny

you don't think scum!thea might genuinely be indignant about this?

I will be around at deadline to make moves btw