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osieorb18 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:00 pm

boomfrog wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:59 pm

osieorb18 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:54 pm I mean, as a general rule, and this is a core part of why I don't use cold meta usually, players who have more micro-macro contradictions than others, players who don't engage in good faith, players who play to an agenda rather than to an organic progression, players whose posts are forced and whose behaviour is primarily predicated on that of others, rather than a give and take, those players are scum.

...

Bessie ticks all of the scum boxes, and at best a slight few town boxes of mostly meta if you're accurate in your read of her play here and her town meta.

Bessie's progression was organic. Even if she's scum she didn't start with an agenda to target you. She pushed at a few people and you pushed back and if I had more time I'd give details of why your push back didn't go well. But she didn't have an agenda and she did have progression.

She lashed out in response to an innocent question since I didn't pay attention to a naked FoS.

At best.

At worst, she set things up as soon as she saw I was being social in RVS.

end of day 1 please stop posting. Votals and result will be added to this post.
Wnd of day Votals
Osieorb18 - 2 - bessie, moody7277
Bessie - 1 - , the worst
Moody7277 - 4 - boomfrog, Madge, xX_wakemeup1337_Xx, Osieorb18
The Snide Sniper - 1 - Heury

No Elim - 1 - the snide sniper
Not voting - 0

Moody has been eliminated he was town and a motivator - boosts other power roles



In case it gets asked I'm limiting role descriptions to make it harder to tell what roles are left.

It is now N1 please have all actions in within 24 hours day 2 will start approximately 48 hours from nks.

Edit fixed a votal error

boomfrog wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:53 pm If moody flips scum take a hard look at Madge and WMU. As I said, moody likes to be bussed. Madge was a tad early, but WMU fell right into place as the "oh, convince me why moodty is scum, mm, yeah that makes sense". That is a very typical maneuver for scum that have decided to bus.

If moodly flips town then Bessie is suspicious. Madge is still a possibility, as are Heury and TSS. But the later two are unlikely mates with Bessie. Bessie+WMU is possible, but if Bessie is town WMU is probably town. If we had all town wagons then WMU had no motivation to stay so engaged and switch around last minute.

Oof.

I'm going to put in a 12 hour delay to the end of N1. I was late sending it all to seven and I would like my work checked prior to starting day 2.

you all decide that moody is trying to sabotage the party and move it back to December. With that decided you push him out the door and go back to the party. As you go back a sudden realisation comes over everyone that moody was actually a strong proponent of the Jan party and you were wrong.

As the party continues you all realise that no one can find boomfrog. Where have they gone, what nefarious shenanigans are going on in the background.

boomfrog was night killed they were town watcher.

It is now day 2. Deadline is 8pm gmt Friday night. 7 alive 4 votes required to eliminate

Boomfrog!!! I hardly knew ye

reading BF and Moody's posts:

Moody found scum in me, osie, TSS

That is literally... it. Moody had very, very little content. Ouch.

Boomfrog: votes for osie first (specifies it's not RVS), then the worst, then moody (strong scumread); overall defends bessie. neutral on me because i hate d1

Boomfrog left what amounted to a will, quoting in its entirety (except the part about if moody flips scum, because he didn't)

If moodly flips town then Bessie is suspicious. Madge is still a possibility, as are Heury and TSS. But the later two are unlikely mates with Bessie. Bessie+WMU is possible, but if Bessie is town WMU is probably town. If we had all town wagons then WMU had no motivation to stay so engaged and switch around last minute.

If moody and Bessie are both town, The Worst is more likely to be scum and is a good pick of mate with TSS or Heury or Madge. The Worst+WMU doesn't make sense, that argument felt sincere I don't think it was S vs S.

vote: Bessie

I think it's what Boom would have wanted :')

Between work stuff, taxes, and just generally having to be a responsible adult, I couldn't keep focus long enough to hunt down and ISO dive Bessie's old games. That said, I did look part of the way back through this game.

Notes:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

• In retrospect, I think that guessing that Sniper's starting post was role-related was hasty.
• The worst's entrance still slightly pings me, but they're still one of my highest townreads and I'm not sure who their teammates would be, so I'm sorta expecting them to just be town here.
• WMU coming in quickly with being social with me is... The fact that I'm still alive and able to make this post makes me doubt that she's the scum though. I imagine that I would be her first target.
• I could see the madge and wam parts of bessie's first post coming from town, although naked FoS is still not a townie play. Pushing on confirmation posts is apparently a NAI choice, though that whole premise seems a little forced.
• WMU instantly calling out the worst is a slight town ping.
• The social interaction between myself, WMU, and the worst is not really AI; this is normal for the three of us being more familiar with each other. Neither of them feel forced here.
• Bessie's second post is really what gets me; this is kinda where the "Is this player playing in good faith?" question starts out for me. Accusations of active lurking at 30 posts into the game (I counted) just seem very overblown and performative. The fact that she didn't include her comment about taking it from another user in this response post, instead focusing on deflecting a non-pushing question back as a push, still feels really inorganic.
• Boom comes in with a vote for me that they later declare to be serious. They suggest that I've been scummy. In retrospect, this feels like odd buddying or pocketing of Bessie here. Not thrilled. But if Boom is scum with Bessie, then Boom's later posts may or may not make sense... Actually, I'm just not sure what to think about this. I'll come back to it later.
• Madge is instantly cozying up to the worst while RVS voting them. Slaps away bessie's push on her in a good way.
• Bessie almost instantly is starting in on this memetic-style of play. This feels like a convenient way to hide behind the "It's just a meme" without actually progressing arguments. And if anyone argues against any of these points, bessie can just double-down and ignore the thrust of the response (as she did), or step away conveniently into "Oh, it's just joking." Thankfully not much of the latter so far. Former is still annoyingly present.
• Madge's bessie vote post still makes zero sense to me. Madge has yet to suggest anything about it really, as far as I can recall. Definitely doesn't seem like it was a reaction test, though maybe...
• I like that madge continues on with the social element. Feels organic.
• I find malignment walls too easy to make to trust that there was good faith in Bessie's inclusion of said PBPA. The fact that she also strawmanned and dismissed her way through my other responses is just gross. Bessie's already shifted towards one word commands for me to do things for her as if she thinks of me as less than her. As if she thinks of me as under her control. The moody comment looks particularly bad in retrospect. Bessie's declaration of the end of RVS and using it as the premise for AtE is a textbook scum move.
• Boomfrog greeting in response to bessie is a slight team ping for me. Just doesn't quite feel like it fits at that point.
• Boomfrog evaluation of me I suppose fits with seeing me on Smashboards? Not sure on that front.
• If it wasn't bessie's play that he was defending, Boomfrog's response to bessie's claim of rolefishing is quite reasonable. But since they are positioned to work off each other, I'm less thrilled by it.
• Bessie coming in 5 minutes after Boomfrog doesn't help with my paranoia of a Bessie-Boomfrog team. I feel like this is the start of bessie trying to monopolize my time while claiming that I'm doing the reverse. Already continuing in with lots of sarcasm and misrepresentation. Why does bessie post this as if she's on the defense? She also hints that she must be scum with "Which one of us" formation. She's already thinking of this as a scum v town back-and-forth, but she wants to represent it as her being the town rather than the other way around. Also still baffling that someone would argue against a point while admitting in the same thought that they don't understand what it is to which they're responding.
• The worst's reading of me for the rest of the page feels solid. I also very much like their posts in regards to madge, and their responses to bessie and moody. Feels very organic. The worst is clearly enjoying themself at this point, and I think that usually is more likely to come from them as town here.
• Madge has an odd comment about how their read on me is probably mostly playstyle. Could be a preflip excuse. The way she doesn't provide real evaluation of anyone really bothers me.
• Not sure where the worst gets a townread of Madge from here but it may be joking. Odd if serious. Worst's comment on the playerlist feels organic, though.
• WMU feels like she's actively reading and sorting here, although her direct interactions with people leave something to be desired. I'm still very hesistant to ever have a strong townread on her, but she's definitely at a townlean for her play this game.
• Boom popping in with a couple questions and then dipping out. My tinfoil is not going away.
• WMU response to boomfrog could be distancing. A little concerning.
• The worst response to WMU seems legit.
• I really like the way that the worst reads me. The looking for nuance specifically would be a townping for either WMU or the worst here, since they are familiar with me, but particularly the worst.
• WMU's push on the worst feels genuine. I think she really felt like the worst wasn't giving her enough to work with. Her later asking me for a towncase is a good look.
• The worst and I had a similar concern on WMU's interactions. I like it.
• Boom's switch to the worst is... okay? I sorta feel like this push from Boomfrog could have happened no matter what because it feels like he's discounting all of the worst's posts in RVS just based on the wording of the worst's post.
• I like WMU's response to my question about her Madge push outside of the last bit which has a bit too much agenda potential.
• Boom's response to my flavour theory is fair. It was kinda just an idea I was throwing out there.
• Hmm... I'mma reconsider how often the worst takes my words.
• I like the "LAMIST is a town tell" post. I think it's something the worst somewhat believes regardless of alignment.
• Yeah, WMU+Worst still feels TvT as of bottom of Pg 5.
• The worst's last post on Page 5 really sold them for me as town.
• First post of pg 6 made me chuckle.
• "Is anyone talking about me me me?" is just a very bizarre perspective for town. This post is the start of bessie self-victimizing, but not the start of bessie seeming self-centered. Also oddly high amount of focus on posts about her towards other people. Most players I know, myself included, will mostly ignore that sort of content unless there's a ton of it, which there wasn't. The "doesn’t make it true" feel like a cop-out way to try to make me look bad. It's like saying "Oh, and you're fat." May be true, but doesn't make it relevant to my alignment or casing/responding to the posts.
• In my first read-through, I figured boom was definitely townie, but as the game went on I was doubting that read. The response to the worst, someone who for me at this point felt at least somewhat townie in all read-throughs, looks like the cart pulling the horse.
• WMU has a good question here.
• I like Boomfrog's "Undeniable truths" post less and less each time I read it. There's just too much to it that feels questionable. His following post feels like it was a separate thought, but also feels too close to be entirely separate. Odd. If Boom is town, there might be something to this, but either way, the framing isn't great. Positions bessie as alignment-definite as if boom doesn't want to analyze/consider her alignment, while positioning me as uncertain.
• If the good subposts of this post from bessie weren't mixed up with a bunch of dubious to bad subposts, I'd really like most of this post. This reminds me though that boom's "low calorie" comment really doesn't apply to bessie's style. Bessie's subposts are still mostly low calorie, even if she waits a while to combine what would be separate low calorie posts into one post. If anything, that makes them feel less organic. It's like a rice krispie treat. Each subpost is a single rice krispie, and there's a lot of air and a bit of sugary goop holding the dry rice flour and sugar structurally together, but that could fall apart easily if pulled at. That could comfortably be crushed down into low amounts of actual caloric content, mostly just a pile of artificial carbs. Also bessie's handling of the worst here feels like she's TMIing them as town even though the worst was in her PoE at this point in time.
• WMU response to the worst is a good look for her. Town pings.
• Boom calling out lurkers feels a bit LAMIST. Meh.
• A slight ping at the worst not being more paranoid about Boom's "undeniable truths" post, but I suppose I'm not one to talk.
• Two of the best posts from Worst and WMU this game being in response to one another tickles my TvT sensors.
• Boomfrog focusing on deadline and not really doing anything else with their pop-in saddens me.
• WMU usually doesn't make walls with this degree of process involved as scum, iirc. Still makes walls, but with less meat to them. It's hard for me to tell if she actually didn't recognize the use of the word "organic", but I don't really want to go there. That's just nasty. Rephrasing in a way that echoes bessie is a little alarming, but not excessively so. The middle section where they're bringing me up makes me instantly think "Oh no, Mommy and Daddy are fighting!" but that's just me.
• Sniper being new definitely reflects in this post. I wanna say this is slightly more newb town, but I feel like they might do something else beyond that.
• WMU still feeling okay here.
• Bessie framing her post as if she'd been paying significant attention to anyone else prior to this point seems really forced. I actually like the reasoning on the FoS point, but it's drowned out by the fact that most of bessie's attitude in this round of subposts still stinks. Response to WMU is slightly too pockety for Bessie+WMU world, I think. "all my posts are hot fudge sundaes on a brownie." PFFFFFT. I'm kinda tempted to count out bessie's subposts, being as generous as possible in terms of not splitting up, judge content like I would as a host, and then compare to each other player, but that seems unproductive, so I'll leave it be for now.
• Bessie's readlist is REALLY bad. Like, this is a townread on WMU for loose reasons, using Boomfrog's fence-sitting as "Osie is scum for this player's reason", and pre-flip positioning worst as a partner for me with a blatantly false reason; the worst had made multiple posts giving their read on me. And then no read on anybody else. And she puts herself at the top of her readlist, something for which she accused me of her memetic "IS THIS A TOWN CLAIM?" This post feels like really fake effort since she was asked to make a readlist.
• Again, Boomfrog feels like he's backing up bessie's thoughts. Like they discussed what to post before posting it. And again, they're about 5 minutes apart.
• I had mostly stopped replying to bessie by this point, actually. I hadn't even realized this when boomfrog was calling me out later on for ignoring non-existent requests to end the back-and-forth. My bessie-style question wall was the last bit of patience I had for engaging directly with her. After the Night phase, a bit of that patience is back, but it WILL vanish immediately if she continues to engage in bad faith.
• The worst sped up soon after that in a good way. Response to bessie of "Wait, what? I've been posting analysis" near the top of page 8 is a very good look. Feels like townie indignation. A little surprised at not seeing similar incredulity in response to boomfrog. Cliffnotes post on my wall seems in character for them; them recognizing my frustration and reminding me to take a breath is a good look.
• Madge expressing the "ready to yeet so I don't have to read" sentiment I could see being organic even if it isn't a good post to make. WMU call out is good, and madge follow-up feels reasonable, if sparse.
• The worst's posts in mid pg 8 feel like they're firmly down a rabbit hole.
• Sniper response to the worst with random no elim vote feels slightly more like newb town than newb scum.
• Boomfrog response to sniper pings me a little. And the follow-up responses ping me even more. AWWWW, I really don't like my read flipping like this.
• Boom questions are fine. Feel kinda NAI; could be asked as either alignment.
• Boom serious-feeling response to bessie early page 9 is... huh. I kinda sorta like it.

Got to near the beginning of page 9 before needing to head to bed last night.

Oh jeez, Boom flipped. Okay. Well, I guess I'll also follow their point on bessie being scum then.

Vote: Bessie

And now to get back to not being on my computer before exercise in the morning.

Moody flipping town was really sad.
RIP Boomfrog...

I have to think at the game and reread it all, most probably toomorow evening (in 24 hours)
I am not ready to vote, a hammer is counterproductive imo.

Skimming Osie's wall, i have a strong town vibe from him

Sweet release....

So I wanted to vote "no elim" D1 on principle, but apparently voting "no elim" is incredibly off-meta, so I'll be voting for Bessie. I also wanted to say this D1 but missed the deadline by a couple hours.

Vote: bessie

Unvote to avoid possibility of quick-hammer.

Oh, whoops. I forgot about that.

The Snide Sniper wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:49 pm So I wanted to vote "no elim" D1 on principle, but apparently voting "no elim" is incredibly off-meta, so I'll be voting for Bessie. I also wanted to say this D1 but missed the deadline by a couple hours.

Vote: bessie

Any thoughts to add on what's happened so far?

I'm not sure why the wagon switched from you/bessie to moody, but that's mainly because I'm too lazy to read through 5 pages of posts.

The Snide Sniper wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm I'm not sure why the wagon switched from you/bessie to moody, but that's mainly because I'm too lazy to read through 5 pages of posts.

I think there was a general agreement that moody was the scummiest.

This Day, I'm pretty much at Bessie/Madge/Heury in roughly that order of preference.

i would have been tempted to quickhammer i'm ngl

looking at wmu/madge
more closely is probably wise though

The Snide Sniper wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm I'm not sure why the wagon switched from you/bessie to moody, but that's mainly because I'm too lazy to read through 5 pages of posts.

For what it's worth, I still don't "get" the scumreads on moody. I think the best reaction is to just kill scum today.

Ok I’m here. Here’s a brownie for all that care to eat it.

madge wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:40 am vote: Bessie

I think it's what Boom would have wanted :')

No. One reason you hate Day 1 is because you consider Day 2 the day when the aspects of the game you enjoy start, like analyzing night results. So you make the first post of Day 2 and vote, without waiting for anyone to report a night result. And not only do you vote, you trust the reads someone who pushed for what turned out to be a miselimination. If you want to vote for me, fine, but vote for your own reasons. You are not going to get out of explaining yourself tomorrow by saying “BuT BoOmFrog!!!”

So Madge what are your reasons for finding me scummy?

osieorb18 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 3:06 pm Oh jeez, Boom flipped. Okay. Well, I guess I'll also follow their point on bessie being scum then.

Vote: Bessie

Same with you. You are not going to point to BoomFrog on Day 3 and blame my elimination on him. Give your own reasons, preferably reasons that don’t contradict your Day 1 content. And before you auto-attack me for “distancing” or “not posting in good faith” I refer you to your own analysis in this post . Your most likely team is me and moody. Well moody and I are not the mafia team. From your own analysis, Madge+Heury and Madge+Sniper are the next most likely. Interesting you seem to have forgotten what must have been hours of team analysis, and you immediately place your vote following the person on your next two most likely scum teams. And you claim you are sheeping someone who was “80% sure about moody”.

The Snide Sniper wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:49 pm So I wanted to vote "no elim" D1 on principle, but apparently voting "no elim" is incredibly off-meta, so I'll be voting for Bessie. I also wanted to say this D1 but missed the deadline by a couple hours.

Vote: bessie

Give me a single reason why you find me scummy that’s not based on “someone else does”.

osieorb18 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:07 pm I think there was a general agreement that moody was the scummiest.

There was not at all. BoomFrog found moody scummy, Madge followed BoomFrog instead of coming up with her own reads, you voted in self-preservation, and WakeMeUp voted to ensure you were not eliminated.

the worst wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:35 am For what it's worth, I still don't "get" the scumreads on moody. I think the best reaction is to just kill scum today.

He wasn't scummy, he just wasn't overwhelmingly townie and also he is a lighter poster that was likely buried in content, and he shouldn’t have been eliminated. Also keep in mind his elimination gives us no information. You should reread the wagon and think about who may have benefited from having moody eliminated, and how they benefit.

I'm waiting for night results and none are forthcoming, I will be the first to change once I have actual mechanics to dig into. Vote analysis would probably be a good idea, too. I'm sick so I'm going to go lie down a bit more.

FWIW I am not voting for you because of anything my power did or didn't find

I also think BF likely had his finger on the pulse, reads-wise, or he wouldn't have been killed, since so many of us were pocketing him

I trust conftown-goodplayer's opinion over my own (since i'm conftownfmpovonly-badplayer!)

madge wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:43 am I also think BF likely had his finger on the pulse, reads-wise, or he wouldn't have been killed, since so many of us were pocketing him

I trust conftown-goodplayer's opinion over my own (since i'm conftownfmpovonly-badplayer!)

Why would you downgrade yourself like that?

GTH I don't feel this wagon


The worst you are still pushing me which is really bad because you don't explain it at all.