Trust Fall Mafia - Day 1

[Deadbananas0]

Thanks Bop!

Deadbanana: I'm not stretching though? That's also not part of my reasoning for scum reading you. Using meta is fine, in fact I encourage it if it helps people read players better. You mention real analysis, can you explain what you mean by that? Also finally, why don't you see Heury's play as scum play? Why do you strongly town read it?

What I'm trying to say is I thought your push on me felt more natural, you had reasons based on the content of my posts(this is what I meant by real analysis. You ask several people about it, the people you ask don't seem to bite, then you pivot bessie, with the only reason I can see that Wam dropped out + Heury's vote. My mistake on meta, I forget it has multiple meanings, in the above case, I meant using things that could be borderline considered out of game(reasons for someone dropping out, reasons why someone wouldn't believe a player isn't in the game). I personally think its a stretch to say someone dropping out = that slot is probably scum. Changing who you think is sus is totally fine, but I don't like that I felt your case on me was stronger than your reasoning for Bessie, but you still pivoted. Might just be because I don't have a full readslist from you yet, so I only know your theorized scum pair, and then your top town read.

Re heury:
I've made several posts on this, I'll give a brief overview and link the prior posts that come to mind, and you can followup with any questions you have, picked up my fiance for lunch soon, so that'll give some time.

Previous Posts on heury's vote:
viewtopic.php?p=92642#p92642
viewtopic.php?p=92672#p92672
viewtopic.php?p=92881#p92881 - see after where I say "To steal Mak's format"
viewtopic.php?p=92965#p92965

Quick Summary of thoughts outside of just vote logic:
I think Heury's followup to his vote is town indicitive. townHeury would take the gamble, on the belief they could get a confirmed town. When I had the kerfluffle on Bessie, Heury didn't get involved, because they wanted reactions, they also seemed genuinely bummed about that kerfluffle, which makes sense from their town POV. They wanted to gauge reactions, and get a confirmed town, my efforts hurt that. You can also see most of their views come from the reaction to the bessie vote.
Furthermore, they've been more natural, and less validation seeking to me than in the previous scum game, their answer to my question on moody and greedy was honest, and didn't seek to justify what I saw as an odd read.

TLDR: Vote analysis + post analysis = Heury prob town. No paranoia on the slot because only Bessie can trust fall them today.

I also feel you saying I "strongly town read it" is a misrepresentation. When my heury take aways are:

I simply thing that its >rand town instead, additionally, I like most parts of Heury's posts after, I feel it is a bit hyperbolic to say all game, when its mid day 1. I don't have a reason to be paranoid on my Heury read today, I'm always analyzing, but only one person can trust fall Heury, so they are at the bottom of my scared of meter for the day.

Ultimately, even if Heury hadn't voted Bessie, I would not be willing to vote today, this is a slot I would like to see how it progresses over time.

This is the second time I feel like you have overstated my read on Heury, see italized part of first quote.

[EGW]

Deadbananas: I can have a whole case on someone and then realize I may have been wrong. I have been giving your slot some thought, considering if you are just paranoid of my slot and others, however you seem to be tunneling, as if you need to keep a scumread on me. Yet I have noticed, you want more content from me (reads, and town reads), you get those, yet you don't ask Mak or Kay for extra reads / content. Can you explain that? Especially since you had Kay as neutral at one point before you town leaned her, and had Mak as neutral town I believe. Also, how does Bop's read of me factor into your read of me? Sometimes it feels like you say 'Gotcha!' and don't actually listen. I think wam replacing out before game start is a good sign his slot may be scum. However that doesn't dismiss my problems with you, so I would simply have the three of you in a no vote pile.

[EGW]

TLDR: Vote analysis + post analysis = Heury prob town. No paranoia on the slot because only Bessie can trust fall them today.

I noted that Heury this game has a much different tone compared to his town game I mentioned earlier. Not only that, I just find his move to be scum indicative, it only would be helpful to scum. Can you elaborate on the underlined?

[Makhaira]

true to my word I will trustfall with you at any point you wish

Can you go into your read on Bessie and Somi?

Bessie I have as essentially cleared because I think scum!bessie would immediately take the out if its town!heury, and I doubt scum!heury immediately votes his mate like that and puts that kind of attention on his mate. Not a guarantee but again I think the odds are that shes good

Somi I have ranked low because the slot feels very passive and wait & see but its not much more than a gut read tbh

[EGW]

I kinda speedread bananas posts but nothing has explicity town pinged me so far

What changed between here and the post where you townread him more than me.

[Makhaira]

Ok so we have like a day and a half till deadline, I think everyone should post their #1 pick to trust fall with if we pretend that theres a rule that you MUST offer a trust fall to someone before EOD

I would pick bessie here

[EGW]

Somi

[Makhaira]

I kinda speedread bananas posts but nothing has explicity town pinged me so far

What changed between here and the post where you townread him more than me.

I think his style of effortposting here is hard to fake and feels like real attempts to sort

[EGW]

I think his style of effortposting here is hard to fake and feels like real attempts to sort

Ah ah ah, big mistake Mak. Read the chaos game he linked.

[Makhaira]

But im lazy and dont want to

[Makhaira]

Ill take you at your word. Not proposing anyone should trust fall bananas here anyway

[EGW]

Then I'll save you the hassle. I was reading it because I was bored, and forgot that I townread him hard for the exact same reason, and he almost won the game as mafia had he not lost his motivation near the end. I think Swiss himself said that he is a dangerous scum player. Again, MVP Swiss + LaserGuy for realizing that and elimming him at lylo.

[Deadbananas0]

re EGW, trying to keep this short since we have a lot of back and forth:
I don't understand why scumme would need to keep a scumread on you in these settings. Additionally, I have also been back and forth on your slot several times, I've pretty settled on not voting for you day 1 or 2 at this point, but you were more town earlier. I am specifically trying to not tunnel, but it feels like you keep on asking me questions I've answered, I respond and ask for your thoughts, and then you go off to another subject, I don't want to get dragged along in those anymore.

I want more reads from you, because you've asked several people for reads, and are clearly present often, yet have not given a full reads list. Mak has given a full reads list, I would like reasoning, but you already asked for the ones I was most interested in, no point in doubling up. Kay has had slight reads, I would also like to see more from them, but they aren't as uni-present in the thread.

On Bop, I wanted to see where their head was at mainly, since I hadn't seen them in a while. The setup there was significantly different enough I don't think it makes a significant impact on my read. I like to acknowledge that I've seen things, especially in the case where it doesn't change how I feel.

[Deadbananas0]

Man I'm still sour about not being online when Laser and Swiss voted each other at the end. That was a fun game. I'm trying to get my town game leveled up to half of Swiss and Laser in that game. Why is it so much harder to make good reads

[EGW]

Why does thread presence matter to you in terms of read, as in, why is that your focus and not improving your neutral reads? I am asking for reads from players that don't seem to have a push, and I want to know that to have a better read on them. For example with Somi, I townread him, but I still think it's important to see their reads. I have given reads. I am interacting with players to develop reads. I said I would have a reads list later today, yet you seem impatient. Some things take time.

[EGW]

Also, in terms of my playstyle, I always focus on scumhunting first and foremost, and then town reads come after. Therefore, I have to work backwords from that in this game. That's just how I work.

[Deadbananas0]

Your right, I'm overly focused on you because you've interacted with me a lot, we seem to be online at that same time, where as i feel like ive missed Mak when theyve been online, and I keep going back and forth on you making me want to interact more. I think going into this game i wanted to just find solid townies, some people to not vote, and let the middle sort over time. Thank you for being patient, I think I do tend to tunnel as town. Though maybe spiral is a better word. I'm going to try to interact with my middle more, since I think my top townies i don't want to vote today.

[EGW]

I'm only going to get townier in this game, so continuing with me now will be wasted effort for the future. I still have a question to you but I'll let the thread breathe for now, at least with our interactions. It's important that we see what others have to say.

[EGW]

Would never vote for heuristically_alone and think its almost certain Kay is town. Other reads still pretty underdeveloped without metas on people I guess. I wont be voting today or tomorrow regardless so i'm slow cooking.

What's the reasoning for Kay town, what do you expect her to do as town? (So I can improve my read on Kay, would help if Mak could give his 2 cents here as well) What's your explanation in regards to this post from Kay: post

[EGW]

That's a re-post. Ignore that Mak, since you gave your thoughts already. I just want Greedy back in thread, and I still want them to answer to that.

[heuristically_alone]

Heury, why did you leave me out to dry and not use your system to "vote" someone! I feel betrayed. Also who is Jay.

I love dried fruit, yum yum. Jay is Kay's middle name.

whatupppppppp bromigos

anyone who knows what my new (and technically old) avatar is from gets to pocket me for free

you can prove it by filling in the other 9 commandments (#1 is free for anyone who remembers my last ava)

commandment #1 is 100% the move here btw, we just gotta beat the rand elim timer, so lets kick back and experience the magic

1. Chill.
2. Don’t give up on your dreams.
3. Experience the magic.
4. All’s you gotta do is believe.
5. I’m lovin it.
6. Trust me, dude.
7. Kill your parents.
8. Go to the next level, become gods!
9. Resurrect parents (just testing ya before).
10. Don’t rape.


got your pocket ready.png

holy shit I did not expect bessie to be the one to get this

have you actually seen the show??? or was this through detective work hahaha

true to my word I will trustfall with you at any point you wish

Will you now only trust fall with bessie or still open to trust fall with others? (Not an open invitation on my end)

Heury .... Also who is Jay.

I swear if you keep putting Kay twice in all your read lists and making me be the one to notice it I'm going to cry. I feel like this is intentionally trying to bait me into thinking you are scum lmao??? Theres no way you make the same mistake twice after getting called on it the first time????? What?????

I have always beena believer that scum would never use "kerfuffle". Also I am certainly a believer that I was incorrect on my first slight scum lean read on deadbanana based on how hard deadbanas is defending me when it would be easier to add me as a scum read. It is possible I suppose that EGW and deadbanana strategized to take opposite stances on reading me to distance themselves.

Wait, now that I'm typing this I'm second guessing myself. This game format is so confusing. All scum needs to do is pocket one player, give them a high town read to get a reciprocated post. Could scum deadbananas really be taking the word "kerfuffle" in vain? I'm realizing that reads in this format don't feel the same.

[Deadbananas0]

Heury still def town lol. Or wait, should I say heury scum now so he falls for me? Alas.

+1 again on EGW's re-questioning of Greedy

Kay if you had to vote someone today, and it can't be Heury, or Bessie, who would you choose?

Bessie I know your busy, I feel bad asking questions since I know you'll catch up, but, outside of out of game reasons, what would be your chosen time to leave the game? Since I think if you are around tomorrow, almost everyone would think you are like 99% town not worth risking, would you think leaving then would be best, or later?

Mak, I'm looking for those answers on your reads list, but also, if there's one thing on your list you'd like to have put different, but didn't what would it be? Since that's an odd question heres what I mean. I wish I could put Greedy or Moody higher. I don't think they are both mafia here for like, no real practical reason, but i feel like i'd be lying if I didn't say I trusted them the least, it just oddly makes me trust them more? Anything like that for you? You don't have to have one, might just be something I struggle with.

[Deadbananas0]

EGW, I owe you two apologies:
1. arguing with you solidified my read on heury, and your overstatements of it were merely predicting the future.
2. I'm in a better headspace now, feeling focused on that middle ground and the townies.

I'm really excited for this day, we get the bop read list, maybe the EGW one, Bessie has more time as well. Hoping to see some greedy. Also hoping to be able to catch Mak while they are online, I think that would give me the best info, since I've only really had live chats with Mak before, and that helped a lot with my read of them.

Insert upbeat message, I can't think of a good one right now.

[somitomi]

That's where what I said about "how I read the thread" comes into play. I click the "view new posts" icon which takes me to the first new post, which at the start of the game was Seven's big splash pic and the correct list with bessie on it and directly underneath heury's goofy vote for her.

But the confusion didn't happen at game start, it happened near the bottom of P2, by which point the game start post was well out of sight and anyone looking for the playerlist was more likely to see the signup sheet first.

Somi I have ranked low because the slot feels very passive and wait & see but its not much more than a gut read tbh

Can I just say that feels like a very silly reason to put me at the bottom in a game where fading into the wallpaper like I often do just doesn't work as a scum strat because the objective is to get into a trust fall?

Vaguely ordered impressions
If I had to trust fall: KayJayQueue
Very likely town (but what if?): Bessie
I always struggle to read: EGW
Why would anyone do this: Heury
Yeah, all right: Bop, Mak
Still processing: Deadbananas
Mildly suspicious and mostly harmless: GreedyBanger, moody

[Deadbananas0]

Poor Kay, either top town read or bottom scum read for most people in this game, with not a lot of explanation, I don't envy that position.

Somi, from your posts, I know you agree with Kay's logic posts on bessie/heury, and mentioned the paranoia there, is that your main reasoning, or is there anything else?

Also, sorry, what does the yeah, all right category mean? Neutral?