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Makhaira wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 7:46 pm I dont think I ever claimed you were open wolfing. But you being so secretive about your role def pinged indy hiding a stacked role to me, plus what I viewed as a lot of unwarranted self prez. As I reiterated by the end of the game, once thea and fred flipped and I was confident it was 9v3, I only suspected you because of your early game interactions with moody and somi

That's fair, though as I said it was kind of the opposite of self pres and I do think as a town BP it's probably best to try to keep some ambiguity about how I survived. Again, I think my Cassandra self perception (maybe somewhat unwarranted), makes me much more amenable to sacrifice plays in general.

Oh, I do think your read on my early game interactions with Somi and moody were just kind of silly tbh. I was being social, I genuinely like the people here and getting a chance to talk sci-fi in a game is fun!

I did have a secondary purpose of creating an excuse to bring up the Keshet from space opera as a crumb to my claim because it's basically what I was in game, in case I died before I could explain my role, eg targeted twice or strongmanned.

Edit: as far as open wolfing, I'm specifically referencing you reacting to Thea's post which mentioned me open wolfing as basically being exactly what you thought and potentially high level pocketing.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 6:08 pm

Theallieza wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 4:10 am Mason chat
https://discord.gg/w6bCfuTpTG

.... Of all the reasons I considered, of all the arguments you might have made to convince Fredd to vote Santy, "it would be funny" was not on my radar.

I don't really feel like it was hard to convince him, but it was a reason I thought he'd find compelling. He didn't have a particularly strong read on Santy (he may have given that impression in thread but he was confusing Santy and bessie). Objectively Fred was right and we should have just gone for Wam, but I don't think the votes were there.

For the record, I do still stand by my decision that yeeting Santy was the best non-Wam play that we could have made. Santy and Wam were the only slots that were not cleared, and I didn't want to entertain any situation that would let them both reach endgame. We were being pushed as the alternative yeet, which was in my mind a completely losing play for Town, so I did what I had to do to prevent it.

Genuinely it could've changed my mind cause Fredd has a history of that.

I still don't understand why, in the conversation that made me suspicious of you, you didn't just immediately respond that I was right and it was what you thought I was based on my claim rather than what I claimed. I get that you suspected me but I have no idea why you tried to redirect or claim I was being emotional.

Not that I don't take responsibility for my misread. You can take your satisfaction for proving me wrong, this is ultimately still on me and I owe you both apology dances.

Your reaction was over-the-top aggressive and I was trying to figure out what was going on. It actually took me like 4 or 5 posts to realize you were talking about the one-shot BP part as specifically what you were bothered by.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2024 7:16 pm

One thing I do want to say, I do think you were unfair to Bessie and that you were in a tunnel, especially because a fair number of the question I think she already answered or were obvious.

She's a little rigid because of her schedule and her game techniques, but she's a good player and I think discounting her after the flip was a little unfair.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 8:08 pm

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 6:08 pm

Theallieza wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 4:10 am Mason chat
https://discord.gg/w6bCfuTpTG

.... Of all the reasons I considered, of all the arguments you might have made to convince Fredd to vote Santy, "it would be funny" was not on my radar.

I don't really feel like it was hard to convince him, but it was a reason I thought he'd find compelling. He didn't have a particularly strong read on Santy (he may have given that impression in thread but he was confusing Santy and bessie). Objectively Fred was right and we should have just gone for Wam, but I don't think the votes were there.

For the record, I do still stand by my decision that yeeting Santy was the best non-Wam play that we could have made. Santy and Wam were the only slots that were not cleared, and I didn't want to entertain any situation that would let them both reach endgame. We were being pushed as the alternative yeet, which was in my mind a completely losing play for Town, so I did what I had to do to prevent it.

I do get that, but specifically quick yeeting before Santy got his solve out and honestly before I got a chance to reexamine his play.

(I do feel like this is a good example of the limitations of wagonomics, because even a strong town player can just make mistakes and back the wrong horse, so the rationale is more compelling than the positions).

Genuinely it could've changed my mind cause Fredd has a history of that.

I still don't understand why, in the conversation that made me suspicious of you, you didn't just immediately respond that I was right and it was what you thought I was based on my claim rather than what I claimed. I get that you suspected me but I have no idea why you tried to redirect or claim I was being emotional.

Not that I don't take responsibility for my misread. You can take your satisfaction for proving me wrong, this is ultimately still on me and I owe you both apology dances.

Your reaction was over-the-top aggressive and I was trying to figure out what was going on. It actually took me like 4 or 5 posts to realize you were talking about the one-shot BP part as specifically what you were bothered by.

My explanation for that is I picked up on what I thought was you repeating the one hole in your scum game from AI. So, maybe you were just being honest there that it was a play style clash lol

But that's why I was so aggressive, I didn't think you'd make that mistake or at least would apologize for it immediately when pointed out, unless you were reaching for a misyeet.

Though, clearly I was wrong and you were genuinely confused, which I have to just chalk up to the pace of the game, which you mentioned before was exhausting to you.

Oh and before I forget, we really should discuss using replacement rationale.

As in, using it for cases.

ya agreed I dont think I gave bessie a fair shake this game, I have a hard time reading her and I got frustrated and then got extra tilted when she wasnt willing to explain how her role worked when asked, her reasoning not to felt very arbitrary and unreasoned but I shouldnt have carried that past her flip

I personally hate replacing generally and wish people didnt do it. You made a commitment to play, honor it. I get that life happens but I think people replace out for very whimsical reasons a lot of the time. my personal opinion is that discussion of it should be banned like on mafiascum but its not a dealbreaker for me. I just personally will not speculate on it or allow it to enter my analysis because if I did I would literally just policy elim every replacement and Im not joking

I think a big thing is that people who used to play on xkcdia are used to games not going more than 20-30 pages, and the smashboards players produce at a rate that is just unsustainable. It's a major reason why I don't sign up as a player anymore (that and replacements seemed to always be needed and I figured it would be a helpful role to take on).

I think something that sucks about replacements is that you end up not being able to vote them off or NK them the first day, because it feels rude.

I also think that changing the rules to prevent public interactions with mods is something I liked and will keep.

I can't belive I lost this game so badly that I got erased from the timeline.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 2:46 am ya agreed I dont think I gave bessie a fair shake this game, I have a hard time reading her and I got frustrated and then got extra tilted when she wasnt willing to explain how her role worked when asked, her reasoning not to felt very arbitrary and unreasoned but I shouldnt have carried that past her flip

I get it, we're humans and we get tilted.

I personally hate replacing generally and wish people didnt do it. You made a commitment to play, honor it. I get that life happens but I think people replace out for very whimsical reasons a lot of the time. my personal opinion is that discussion of it should be banned like on mafiascum but its not a dealbreaker for me. I just personally will not speculate on it or allow it to enter my analysis because if I did I would literally just policy elim every replacement and Im not joking

Lol, damn, that's harsh. But I do get it.

madge wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 2:59 am I think a big thing is that people who used to play on xkcdia are used to games not going more than 20-30 pages, and the smashboards players produce at a rate that is just unsustainable. It's a major reason why I don't sign up as a player anymore (that and replacements seemed to always be needed and I figured it would be a helpful role to take on).

I honestly feel like it's kind of been mainly me and Seven with some egw.

And I do get it, I think it's less a smashboards thing and more our particular read styles are dependent on having a good amount of material.

I think something that sucks about replacements is that you end up not being able to vote them off or NK them the first day, because it feels rude.

I get it but I don't think it's rude to do that tbh.

I also think that changing the rules to prevent public interactions with mods is something I liked and will keep.

Makes sense.

boomfrog wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 3:13 am I can't belive I lost this game so badly that I got erased from the timeline.

How could somi, moody, and Wam commit such an atrocity?!

Darn you hawk king!!!!

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 4:31 am
Lol, damn, that's harsh. But I do get it.

I've played in multiple recent games where the majority of the scum team in 3 scum games have replaced out and one game very recently where literally all three players who requested replacement were scum, the entire scumteam in a 3 scum game, with zero town replacements. people use it as a crutch for lack of WIM and its toxic

obviously there are genuine circumstances that would make a game onerous for someone and replacement is the humane thing to allow but ultimately I think irl circumstances can be played around with some simple planning or just playstyle adjustments to make the best with what you can contribute. but yeah mostly im harsh on the policy because I think replacements harm game integrity

Makhaira wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 8:23 am

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 4:31 am
Lol, damn, that's harsh. But I do get it.

I've played in multiple recent games where the majority of the scum team in 3 scum games have replaced out and one game very recently where literally all three players who requested replacement were scum, the entire scumteam in a 3 scum game, with zero town replacements. people use it as a crutch for lack of WIM and its toxic

obviously there are genuine circumstances that would make a game onerous for someone and replacement is the humane thing to allow but ultimately I think irl circumstances can be played around with some simple planning or just playstyle adjustments to make the best with what you can contribute. but yeah mostly im harsh on the policy because I think replacements harm game integrity

That is genuinely disappointing, but I'm sad that it's not unbelievable.

Given that experience, I get your point, it absolutely makes sense but thankfully at least on this site I haven't seen this type of behavior.