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Vote EGW

That's a relief, thanks all for the game!

Good games y'all.

Yes thank you!!! I am a little upset that me and Wam didn't get to do the AUDACITY we had gone for, but we tried!!!!!!

In terms of game design I'm mostly upset at how much the flavour mattered. I thought that if I didn't know the flavour it would be OK because I could just play the game as a game - that wasn't so. The alignments with calamnity/etc was very relevant to the cop results and very relevant to our characters. I wish the sign up thread had been more explicit about the requirements to understand the lore, especially because it took us by surprise as scum. I'm really glad I claimed miller early on so I could skate by if my calamnity/etc alignment didn't match, but am annoyed that it took wam out. It felt unfair, though it wasn't.

I'm especially annoyed because the way the alignments worked was really, realy cool! The calamnity/shepherd alignment changing your town/scum alignment depending on game was so clever and elegant, I can see why Adumb was proud of it. I wish there was a way it could have been implemented in a game with different flavour - like a game that was themed around items in a fridge or something and whether you're a fruit or a vegetable has a scum or town lean depending on whether we're talking about a sandwich or fruit salad (with tomato being the miller, of course).

So yeah, I am glad I signed up - had some great moments with Wam in the chat early on (laughing about how the scummiest possible scumteam was rolled), but I don't think I'll sign up for a flavour-heavy game again unless I'm across the flavour.

(I'm OK with all my discords being shared)

Yeah I wasn't into elimming Wam based on flavor, it felt wrong. I just went with the flow. I was also flavor blind. My friend has still yet to finish Tales of Grace.

Also Santy, apologies about being obtuse and not listening to your posts. I intentionally ignored you. You made good posts.

gg everyone, super fun game! It's also late for me so I'm about to crash and will post more thoughts later but gotta say well played town, way to bring it home! well fought by the mafia, definitely an interesting setup with some tough navigation required!

thank you adum and seven for hosting! was fun to play in a theme game for a game series Im a fan of, been awhile since I've really played a theme game were I was more "in the know" so to speak about the background, though Im no maven for this pair of games by any means

great playing with everyone! I'm glad we successfully ran a game of this size, its nice to hit that 15 range every now and again!

EGW you were def the hardest scum to find from my POV your play def out maneuvered my read on you, I thought for sure youd take other avenues as scum hahahaha I def respect the scum push on me, keepin me honest out here lol. bop and madge both played strong games in their own right, it was mostly paranoia that caused me to POE down to having yall im my scum pool, and tbh I mostly just sheeped santy on wam

My reads were genuine. That's why you were town reading me. I just preferred to solve.

This game started while I was out of town so sadly I missed the early game. I should have said that before the game started. I always do around Jan 15th. (Friends birthday)

bessie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:33 am

Oh, @Bessie(ping for visibility), I have been waiting to show you this for several game days cause you were talking about how smashboarders build games but I made this Gojoe post for you:

viewtopic.php?p=86758#p86758

madge wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 7:50 am Yes thank you!!! I am a little upset that me and Wam didn't get to do the AUDACITY we had gone for, but we tried!!!!!!

In terms of game design I'm mostly upset at how much the flavour mattered. I thought that if I didn't know the flavour it would be OK because I could just play the game as a game - that wasn't so. The alignments with calamnity/etc was very relevant to the cop results and very relevant to our characters. I wish the sign up thread had been more explicit about the requirements to understand the lore, especially because it took us by surprise as scum. I'm really glad I claimed miller early on so I could skate by if my calamnity/etc alignment didn't match, but am annoyed that it took wam out. It felt unfair, though it wasn't.

I'm especially annoyed because the way the alignments worked was really, realy cool! The calamnity/shepherd alignment changing your town/scum alignment depending on game was so clever and elegant, I can see why Adumb was proud of it. I wish there was a way it could have been implemented in a game with different flavour - like a game that was themed around items in a fridge or something and whether you're a fruit or a vegetable has a scum or town lean depending on whether we're talking about a sandwich or fruit salad (with tomato being the miller, of course).

So yeah, I am glad I signed up - had some great moments with Wam in the chat early on (laughing about how the scummiest possible scumteam was rolled), but I don't think I'll sign up for a flavour-heavy game again unless I'm across the flavour.

(I'm OK with all my discords being shared)

The sign-up thread did specify that it was encouraged to familiarize oneself with the flavor. There is definitely a difference in philosophy though between how Sabradge and Adum approach flavorful games. This is why Adum and I ended up debating on the relevance of flavor in your last two Halloween games.

Some things to note:
-Suppression Mafia had the marker ability while the second scum team was alive. A marked town player is ignored in terms of endgame parity. Suppression mafia could win via parity or by having other all other living players marked.
-One marked player could also be roleblocked by SM each night. The same player could not be roleblocked on consecutive nights.
-If the Malevolence team died, the marker ability would convert into a night kill.
-Phillip was marked N2 not N3. He failed to mention this. He was roleblocked N3.
-Phillip initially sent his action on Moody N2 but we informed him that was invalid and provided the option to choose another player. However, he never responded.

Some retrospective changes I would make to the setup:
-Make Jailkeeper unable to target same player consecutively
-Make bodyguard odd or even night. Maybe make it a dual role like what santy had in TT that alternates each night.
-Allow supression mafia to choose to either mark or kill after second team is eliminated (rather than mark ability going away)

I think town ended up being too strong with how much protective power they had. I would also make these additions to the role PM's:

-Provide the game each player is from in their role
-Provide the game & shepard/calimity alignment for each of the safe character claims

We were surprised though that Wamadge had decided to use Wam's true alignment though. We had thought you guys figured out the puzzle early considering how well-tailored the Miller claim was.

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 8:16 am

madge wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 7:50 am Yes thank you!!! I am a little upset that me and Wam didn't get to do the AUDACITY we had gone for, but we tried!!!!!!

In terms of game design I'm mostly upset at how much the flavour mattered. I thought that if I didn't know the flavour it would be OK because I could just play the game as a game - that wasn't so. The alignments with calamnity/etc was very relevant to the cop results and very relevant to our characters. I wish the sign up thread had been more explicit about the requirements to understand the lore, especially because it took us by surprise as scum. I'm really glad I claimed miller early on so I could skate by if my calamnity/etc alignment didn't match, but am annoyed that it took wam out. It felt unfair, though it wasn't.

I'm especially annoyed because the way the alignments worked was really, realy cool! The calamnity/shepherd alignment changing your town/scum alignment depending on game was so clever and elegant, I can see why Adumb was proud of it. I wish there was a way it could have been implemented in a game with different flavour - like a game that was themed around items in a fridge or something and whether you're a fruit or a vegetable has a scum or town lean depending on whether we're talking about a sandwich or fruit salad (with tomato being the miller, of course).

So yeah, I am glad I signed up - had some great moments with Wam in the chat early on (laughing about how the scummiest possible scumteam was rolled), but I don't think I'll sign up for a flavour-heavy game again unless I'm across the flavour.

(I'm OK with all my discords being shared)

The sign-up thread did specify that it was encouraged to familiarize oneself with the flavor. There is definitely a difference in philosophy though between how Sabradge and Adum approach flavorful games. This is why Adum and I ended up debating on the relevance of flavor in your last two Halloween games.

For me, "encouraged to familiarise yourself with the flavour" was something I assumed was, like, "in order to get the most from the game" - I remember someone said they reread the flavour in my Brooklyn 99 halloween game after watching the series and finally got all the jokes.

I have done flavour-relevant games, but it's always been the flavour in the posts (e.g. the Party Trap halloween mafia) rather than things you need to know from watching the show or whatever...

Heury's role seemed pretty powerful.

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 8:26 am Some retrospective changes I would make to the setup:
-Make Jailkeeper unable to target same player consecutively

I think that should be a standard for any RB or Doc-related ability.

madge wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 8:29 amFor me, "encouraged to familiarise yourself with the flavour" was something I assumed was, like, "in order to get the most from the game" - I remember someone said they reread the flavour in my Brooklyn 99 halloween game after watching the series and finally got all the jokes.

I have done flavour-relevant games, but it's always been the flavour in the posts (e.g. the Party Trap halloween mafia) rather than things you need to know from watching the show or whatever...

That's totally fair. For the record, I'm actually flavor blind as well so I had a hard time keeping track of all the names and things until Adum made that wonderful summary.

I'm open to sharing the discord. I'll let Bop say if they want to share it as well.

Also I genuinely thought Madge was town here. That tainted the rest of my reads. Oops.

More thoughts cause having trouble going back to sleep.

The other thing I was surprised about was that EGW didn't catch Bop's fakeclaim issue because my interpretation is that there's a very strong culture of "deterministic outcomes only" here, which I agree with and consider otherwise bastard. I would've figured him suggesting asking the mods before posting it.

As far as flavor, while this is absolutely far more built on flavor than the sabrar/madge games, I think that's more of a build choice for this particular game. The insights I picked up from the flavor were extremely on point in time travel for example. I even picked out Wam as actually either the Valeyard or War Doctor (which was why I was trying to get you to explain which doctor you were Seven) so I think my read on how it was used was pretty correct.

As far as the cops' claim, it's kind of both, but the complimentary design was both so one scumteam and town could collaborate for guilties if they chose and so they wouldn't be interpreted as counterclaims of each other inherently. But independently they still functioned as catching individual fake claims. Alignment cops on their own tend to be a little binary and boring. Not that I'd never use them, but they're more a shot of direct power that's ubiquity required Millers and sanities etc

We alluded to this before, but Madge actually seemingly knew exactly what she was doing with her claim after asking the right questions. She was feigning not understanding it to the point that I thought she was bussing Wam, it should've looked really unpairing given she was the second to claim alignments.

I'm kind of disappointed that moody wasn't much of a presence in this game, but its a good illustration of why a role as powerful as Mak's could exist. Most tree stumps unfortunately don't do much. (Worth noting r12 was for both stumping because there was expected to be a lot more of it and for Heury's role) this was really contrasted by Bessie in Heury's deathchat though. I'm not gonna lie, I felt some sort of way when Moody talked about half playing when getting to be a tree stump as town is something I always have wanted.

As you all probably guessed, I drew a lot of inspiration from Madge/Sabrar's AI game with the secret second mafia and the nascant kill. The mark of suppression was to give them more autonomy while nascant without bringing an endgame state too soon, but if I were to run the setup again (which I'm considering doing on another site, with some edits, so I'm wondering if temporarily privating this game is possibe), I'd probably only make it a mark everyone victory condition but let them mark or kill after second mafia is dead.

Dezel was originally gonna be a town compatible condemner we didn't think the game supported it with this size. Making him just town is part of the reason there's not a standard doc in this game because he could facilitate some broken combos.

I made a mistake with the bodyguard wording and if the jailer and bodyguard/JOAT bodyguard ability both targeted the nightkill target, the bodyguard would still die if and only if the protection was successful.

Mak's "without interference" clause was not for roleblocks, which normally don't block passives. It was more of a hint that Malevolence mafia had a kill that bypassed his ability, namely indignation.

EGW wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 8:29 am Heury's role seemed pretty powerful.

Boom was correct on the role, Vigilantes actually tend to be awesome but impractical as roles. They statistically do not contribute to town's win rate at all. The design both fit the character and was attempting to make the role more pro-town.

Edit: and probably gonna be creating a list of non-role specific privately asked clarifications in the future, because, poor Bop. I actually would've preferred more of the questions being public.

Thanks mods for running and players for playing, glad to have been around for apparently the first large game in a bit! It was honestly fun if a little exhausting-but any other game I'd sign up for from here on out I'd have a better idea of the rate of play.

EGW wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 8:57 am Also I genuinely thought Madge was town here. That tainted the rest of my reads. Oops.

For how much our reads differed, we both did.

Also fine with sharing the discord even if it has the embarrassment of day 3(having to be convinced into at least trying to talk my way out of my mistake instead of just bowing out) in full force. I am going to be a nightmare to every single mod for the essays I make them answer from here on out though. Getting caught on private clarification pms stung. (but again....I'm sure similarly to getting caught on the flavor stuff in d2. Karmic!)

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 8:16 am The sign-up thread did specify that it was encouraged to familiarize oneself with the flavor. There is definitely a difference in philosophy though between how Sabradge and Adum approach flavorful games. This is why Adum and I ended up debating on the relevance of flavor in your last two Halloween games.

Funny how the two scum teams initially got got by leaning too heavily towards one and not the other, just opposite.

In the past I always loved digging into flavor I wasn't familiar with so I had a hell of a fun time d1 and 2 digging into that: but I can see why that wouldn't be everyone's bag. As I said like 10,000 times in the private chat, in the past I never used to play in games with mod provided fake claims so I always had to find some obscure side role in a dingy wiki I'd pray wasn't in the game to pretend to be as scum.

Also Wam and Madge/all Zesteria players would've been at a huge disadvantage with the flavor claims just by not entering D1 knowing Berseria was in the game. Any research you would've done initially wouldn't have had a reason to include the prequel in there so you had less time to work that into your plans.