Tales of Desolation mafia Engame

[EGW]

I'll re-read it after I eat food.

[Santygrass]

Another thing to maybe look into is who changed their read on Madge in the second half of D2? She didn't claim to be marked, which I think a townie would almost always do, so suppression mafia could have had a reasonable suspicion on her.

Town Lean
.
14. Madge - I'm slightly convinced by LG's point. And I think LG would make that point as scum or town. Although if LG is scum she could be a buddy.

D1 read

Probably town
14. Madge - I've seen some specific strong town tells. Maybe it's in her scum-range but I don't think so.

SoD2 read

Possible scum
Madge - I don't trust the miller claim. @Bop please take note here as well. She claimed late enough that she was confident there were no other millers who might claim, and she likes mechanics, that includes going for an early mechanical clear on herself. Only scum if it's multiball because she is sincerely trying to scum hunt.

Maybe madge is SK?

EoD read


Sabrar, you might've cooked with this line of questioning. This progression is indeed very weird lol

What changed is that I considered multiball more and more as D2 went on and I'd been chewing on all my reads since we had so many town reads. The whole vibe of the game felt multiball, there were just too many town and that meant too many people able to hide behind sincere scum hunting. The fact that you didn't see it was either scum motivated or... wait for it... a skill issue.

Also, Bop and I were hard vibing. He earned his town tone read (and you agreed with me D2). But start of D3 I was growing suspicious of him. I didn't state it in thread but if you look at my questioning D3 you'll see I was narrowed down to you two containing scum. All my questioning was directed at trying to get you two to commit to more while not tipping my hand that I was susing you two. I am genuinely disappointed that we got a claim failure solve instead of me getting the chance to prove my chops by catching him.

Iirc, EGW in all his flailing D2 never wavered one bit on his Bop town read. I think he put almost everyone else in his solve at some point.

I've got work I need to do this morning, I'll circle back for more later today.

Just for considering multiball and with no flips a confident town read, believing them having *town* tells dropping to the SCUM tier is just wild, you had nothing really to sus Madge for, and if you did please elaborate what did Madge that was *scummy* .
Like I cant understand why madge claiming miller is okay if not multiball, but gets sus if it is multiball ?
Why the considering of multiball made madge a main suspect for you on D2 ?

For the Bop thing, yeah you were vibing (or having the same agenda you know) , what is pingy to me is that I was also on that same train thought and Bop *never* properly townread me or aknowledged it.

[Santygrass]

Santy is townier than Phillip, and would be more beneficial to the game due his desire to solve.

You could substitute any name there instead of Santy and it would be true. Doesn't mean that we automatically need to get rid of phillip, just look at how the Fred-yeet came about. That's why you take mechanics into consideration, because different people play the game differently and you cannot establish townieness solely on activity (Bop being prime example).

To me Frog is scummier than phillip here :hmmyes:

Lets not mix up someone being engaged/posting actively as it being the only towny metric. I already explained why D2 their claim was towny, and today went through Bop posts and showed how their strong TR fading slowly as the game progressed is also a very good look for them

[boomfrog]

D1 read



SoD2 read



EoD read


Sabrar, you might've cooked with this line of questioning. This progression is indeed very weird lol

What changed is that I considered multiball more and more as D2 went on and I'd been chewing on all my reads since we had so many town reads. The whole vibe of the game felt multiball, there were just too many town and that meant too many people able to hide behind sincere scum hunting. The fact that you didn't see it was either scum motivated or... wait for it... a skill issue.

Also, Bop and I were hard vibing. He earned his town tone read (and you agreed with me D2). But start of D3 I was growing suspicious of him. I didn't state it in thread but if you look at my questioning D3 you'll see I was narrowed down to you two containing scum. All my questioning was directed at trying to get you two to commit to more while not tipping my hand that I was susing you two. I am genuinely disappointed that we got a claim failure solve instead of me getting the chance to prove my chops by catching him.

Iirc, EGW in all his flailing D2 never wavered one bit on his Bop town read. I think he put almost everyone else in his solve at some point.

I've got work I need to do this morning, I'll circle back for more later today.

Just for considering multiball and with no flips a confident town read, believing them having *town* tells dropping to the SCUM tier is just wild, you had nothing really to sus Madge for, and if you did please elaborate what did Madge that was *scummy* .
Like I cant understand why madge claiming miller is okay if not multiball, but gets sus if it is multiball ?
Why the considering of multiball made madge a main suspect for you on D2 ?

For the Bop thing, yeah you were vibing (or having the same agenda you know) , what is pingy to me is that I was also on that same train thought and Bop *never* properly townread me or aknowledged it.

You guys are wild for completly ignoring cop results.

Anyway, the madge town read was for sincere scum hunting, which multiball negates. And the Miller reconsider was because I spent all day D2 reconsidering everything multiple times. And by the end of the day her miller claim was one of our weakest peices of evidence. PoE made me think about how she might have faked it. And the way the cop results were working a Miller seemed like an odd layer to add to the already complex cop system.

[boomfrog]

Are you convinced that I am scum? Do you think Santy is incapable of this energy level as scum?

I'm not. You are just a low town read. My only scum read is Phillip. I was way off on my scum reads this game so I dialed it back. However I found Santy's energy level townie while being the default elim today. I have not played with Santy before though, so no knowledge of his meta. Why do you suspect Santy at this moment?

Because as JC said and Santy begrudgingly admitted, Santy is a try hard who loves drama and plays scum very well. I suspect he's the type of scum to be even more motivated the worse the situation as its more fun if he pulls it off.

And he never questioned Bop's towniness even D3 when it should have been the next place to start challenging assumptions.

And his bodyguard claim stinks. It's the weakest role anyone has claimed. And does nothing vs 1 of the 2 mafias and we already have Sabrar and Mak as town protectives.

[AdumbroDeus]

Vote count 4.3
1. EGW(0) -
2. Sabrar(0) -
3. ahippo phillip1882(1) - heuristically_alone
4. TehBubblez Somitomi(0) -
5. Boomfrog(2) - Santygrass, EGW
6. JC_DADDY25(0) -
7. heuristically_alone(0) -
8. Laserguy Santygrass(2) - Sabrar, JC_DADDY25

Not voting: Somitomi, Boomfrog, phillip1882

With 8 players alive it takes 5 to eliminate

The deadline is set for Saturday February 15th at 2 PM EST

[Santygrass]

My issue is Frog *why* the "townie scumhunting negated by multiball* ONLY applied to Madge . I dont think your reads shifted much on other slots considering multiball option. You decided apparently to only negate madge positives because of multiball and not other peoples?

[heuristically_alone]

VOTE: Santy
Makes the most sense today. I won't but Boomfrog before ahippo

[Santygrass]

Are you convinced that I am scum? Do you think Santy is incapable of this energy level as scum?

I'm not. You are just a low town read. My only scum read is Phillip. I was way off on my scum reads this game so I dialed it back. However I found Santy's energy level townie while being the default elim today. I have not played with Santy before though, so no knowledge of his meta. Why do you suspect Santy at this moment?

Because as JC said and Santy begrudgingly admitted, Santy is a try hard who loves drama and plays scum very well. I suspect he's the type of scum to be even more motivated the worse the situation as its more fun if he pulls it off.

And he never questioned Bop's towniness even D3 when it should have been the next place to start challenging assumptions.

And his bodyguard claim stinks. It's the weakest role anyone has claimed. And does nothing vs 1 of the 2 mafias and we already have Sabrar and Mak as town protectives.

I questioned Bop far more than you did~

If you recall, Ive consistently questioned why they were scumreading me if our views aligned a lot when solving.
Yet they cleared you mainly on that, while not adressing it with myself and pushing me as a consideration to yeet

Also, yes I love wolfing there is nothing out of my wolfrange. I enjoy playing mafia and pour my heart into the game. My heart this time is into my solve which atm Im feeling pretty good about as time passed. Specially how you switched tonally from being "wow santy props to you if you are scum" to shading me reactively and trying to point out stuff of why I should be the yeet when you were p chill before o7.

Like, still you havent really replied to Sabrar to who do you think Im misclearing in my solve, yet you are not really tackling me as if I were guaranteed scum . If you are town there is no world in where you think Im a guaranteed hit, that p much I can understand, yet why is there no worry from you here on who is last wolf or trying to talk me into my solve and lead me into the scum? Like, have you even read why Im townreading EGW ? To me it seems you only focused on trying to defend yourself and not that much interested in really figuring it out, after all you only have to focus on the parts that look bad on the surface on slots like EGW and Phillip.

Might I remind to the thread, both slots frog was highly townreading, D2 even poking people why they *WEREN'T* clearing hippo as if they were a very obv villa. You are just waiting for the lhf to fall of the tree for easy picking

[Santygrass]

Anyways Im eepy and today was very rough at work. See you later zzzz~

[Sabrar]

There is nothing I can add right now to the discussion, I'll reread during the night if it comes to that. I hope phillip will show up to vote Santy, at which point Boomfrog can hammer early if he wants to (I would like somi to hold off voting for now). Plan is still here, please don't deviate.

[Santygrass]

Kill me I want to read Gojoe and see if Im right on Frog or not ;-;

[boomfrog]

My issue is Frog *why* the "townie scumhunting negated by multiball* ONLY applied to Madge . I dont think your reads shifted much on other slots considering multiball option. You decided apparently to only negate madge positives because of multiball and not other peoples?

Idk what to say man. My town read on her was based on only a few points one of which was negated by multiball. My EGW read was also damaged by mutiball but the cop claim was enough to keep him ranked as town. In retrospect you and Bop should have been ranked down but my thoughts didn't get there until D3.

[boomfrog]

I'm not. You are just a low town read. My only scum read is Phillip. I was way off on my scum reads this game so I dialed it back. However I found Santy's energy level townie while being the default elim today. I have not played with Santy before though, so no knowledge of his meta. Why do you suspect Santy at this moment?

Because as JC said and Santy begrudgingly admitted, Santy is a try hard who loves drama and plays scum very well. I suspect he's the type of scum to be even more motivated the worse the situation as its more fun if he pulls it off.

And he never questioned Bop's towniness even D3 when it should have been the next place to start challenging assumptions.

And his bodyguard claim stinks. It's the weakest role anyone has claimed. And does nothing vs 1 of the 2 mafias and we already have Sabrar and Mak as town protectives.

I questioned Bop far more than you did~

If you recall, Ive consistently questioned why they were scumreading me if our views aligned a lot when solving.
Yet they cleared you mainly on that, while not adressing it with myself and pushing me as a consideration to yeet

Also, yes I love wolfing there is nothing out of my wolfrange. I enjoy playing mafia and pour my heart into the game. My heart this time is into my solve which atm Im feeling pretty good about as time passed. Specially how you switched tonally from being "wow santy props to you if you are scum" to shading me reactively and trying to point out stuff of why I should be the yeet when you were p chill before o7.

Like, still you havent really replied to Sabrar to who do you think Im misclearing in my solve, yet you are not really tackling me as if I were guaranteed scum . If you are town there is no world in where you think Im a guaranteed hit, that p much I can understand, yet why is there no worry from you here on who is last wolf or trying to talk me into my solve and lead me into the scum? Like, have you even read why Im townreading EGW ? To me it seems you only focused on trying to defend yourself and not that much interested in really figuring it out, after all you only have to focus on the parts that look bad on the surface on slots like EGW and Phillip.

Might I remind to the thread, both slots frog was highly townreading, D2 even poking people why they *WEREN'T* clearing hippo as if they were a very obv villa. You are just waiting for the lhf to fall of the tree for easy picking

I'm trying to take the works where you are town seriously since Sabrar will be working with your legacy while trying to sort me EGW and Phillip. We were on cruise control to win with only a PoE pool of 3 (including you) but adding me means we could lose.

I've read everything you've said carefully but I am confused why you town read EGW. I've made my case for why I think he's scum if you are town.

[Santygrass]

My issue is Frog *why* the "townie scumhunting negated by multiball* ONLY applied to Madge . I dont think your reads shifted much on other slots considering multiball option. You decided apparently to only negate madge positives because of multiball and not other peoples?

Idk what to say man. My town read on her was based on only a few points one of which was negated by multiball. My EGW read was also damaged by mutiball but the cop claim was enough to keep him ranked as town. In retrospect you and Bop should have been ranked down but my thoughts didn't get there until D3.

Yeah, and also Mak defense of hippo aswell. Like by going /sincere solving is negated by multiball/ route almost all the trs you had except the claims were negated. Yet you only applied it to madge , the player who was marked but wasnt claiming it

[Santygrass]

Above from my legacy post, I had the quotes from Bop ISO related to EGW .

I do think Bop showed genuine frustration to EGW reads, and how Bop refuted every push he was doing to hippo, didnt read to me as partnery to me IMO

[boomfrog]

Yeah alright, I admit I skimmed this post aside from my own spoiler. I've read it carefully now.

I am cautious about relying on reading Bop since the dude snowed all of us pretty hard, but I agree the EGW frustration is real. I'll note that mafia seem to only have night chat so it's possible a scum buddy could feel that. But I'm an leaning away from EGW as a partner.

I think your ahippo eval is totally wrong though. Iirc, I and i think maybe some others were hard defending ahippo before Bop was. It makes sense that Bop would jump on that opportunity to hard defend his only scum mate. And that might explain why he townread me extra hard since I was also championing ahippo. If ahippo/phillip is actually scum I really will have to do an apology dance for EGW.

[boomfrog]

Assuming we don't get a red check from any mech I'd want to flip Phillip tomorrow. @Sabrar what do you think about flipping Phillip today and you RB Santy toNight?

[phillip1882]

i'm pretty sure i can no longer use my ability, i'm only allowed 2 uses, ahippo used one and i used one. that my action failed i don't think i can use it again. but i'll confirm with the moderator

Did you confirm? Can you still use your ability?

yes i confirmed. i can no longer use my ability.

vote Santygrass

[Sabrar]

Santy is the biggest unknown for me and I cannot really focus on the others until I see his flip. I also don't want to commit 2 days in advance.

@phillip: thank you!

[Sabrar]

@Boomfrog: if you sus EGW and Santy primarily and would only flip phillip in case of no red checks, why would you want to flip him first without waiting on cop results?

[boomfrog]

Philip was my third sus and EGW was my first but EGW will be resolved mechanically by night actions. I after reading Santys summery and coming to my own conclusions I now sus Phillip most and EGW 3rd. (Maybe 2nd, hard to say but also irrelevant)

My expectation is assuming we don't win the game we will:
Flip Santy or Phillip
Check EGW toNight if green check and nothing else crazy we flip the other.
If we still haven't won something crazy is going on.

Switching the order is only a question of pride for picking scum correctly instead of riding out a PoE. Although I'm admittedly putting more effort into getting it right since Santy has put me back in the PoE which gives us too many to ride out to a lazy win most likely. I'm not sure if you are taking him seriously or not (and you probably shouldn't say either way).

[boomfrog]

Also, something I've been chewing on, aren't arsonist targets usually not informed? I'm concerned why Sabrar hasn't been targeted as he is the one most guaranteed to survive to end game. There's something weird about the mechanic and I'm not sure how many missyeets we really have.

[Sabrar]

There's something weird about the mechanic and I'm not sure how many missyeets we really have.

Yeah, I've been pondering the same since here. Although I think informing the target is done for balance reasons, so Town gets to be aware sooner of the multiball nature of the setup (as we saw it is easier for scum to hide if Town doesn't have this info).

[Sabrar]

@somitomi: you can now hammer if you want.