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Makhaira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 10:26 pm 7-3-2 is kind of insane like Im extremely skeptical sabrar would sign off on something like this.

9-3 seems more straightforward, 8-2-2 maybe? But its been one kill all game like I think that means we should be updating to 9-3 unless its weird jungle republic stuff and JR is 13 players so I guess its not impossible

Adum from your POV if its only you and me or you and wam as the last townies hasnt town already lost? I dont see how no elim advances our wincon at all?

And if its 9v3 then we can miselim here and go to 2v1 endgame so Im really not understanding why we would no elim but ELI5 please if its a thing

As I explained to Wam, Madge announces factional destruction, so we can throw out 2-2. I'm saying that Mafia did the kills (it's pretty clear from the Bessie kill flavor that they did at least that one).

The ELI5 is town is in a kingmaker situation where we can make either mafia or indies win, but town can't win on our own, because it's 2 undies, 1 mafia, 2 town.

I'm trying to leverage that into convincing the last mafia, theur best option is trying to kill Thea and Fredd and try to win in yeet or lose, which makes it possible for town to win again.

Please explain the town cop result in the case that we are non-Mafia Independent. Godfather is a Mafia-specific role

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 11:55 pm Please explain the town cop result in the case that we are non-Mafia Independent. Godfather is a Mafia-specific role

Bwahahahahahahahaha

Not according to your partner:
https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=80697#p80697

Godfather + bulletproof is fairly standard fare for an SK. For a high-powered setup like this one, this is basically the minimum power I'd expect an SK to have to be viable.

That was in relation to you being the serial killer

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 12:16 am That was in relation to you being the serial killer

Which is an Indy role. Which contradicts your assertion it's a mafia specific role. And I didn't even argue the investigative protection was specifically godfather.

How do you expect anyone to take this argument seriously when your own partner said the opposite last day phase?

Just genuinely hilarious.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 10:26 pm 7-3-2 is kind of insane like Im extremely skeptical sabrar would sign off on something like this.

9-3 seems more straightforward, 8-2-2 maybe? But its been one kill all game like I think that means we should be updating to 9-3 unless its weird jungle republic stuff and JR is 13 players so I guess its not impossible

Adum from your POV if its only you and me or you and wam as the last townies hasnt town already lost? I dont see how no elim advances our wincon at all?

And if its 9v3 then we can miselim here and go to 2v1 endgame so Im really not understanding why we would no elim but ELI5 please if its a thing

Adum is operating under the assumption that me/Fred are lovers and hence we are in MYLO.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 11:21 pm

Makhaira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 10:26 pm 7-3-2 is kind of insane like Im extremely skeptical sabrar would sign off on something like this.

9-3 seems more straightforward, 8-2-2 maybe? But its been one kill all game like I think that means we should be updating to 9-3 unless its weird jungle republic stuff and JR is 13 players so I guess its not impossible

Adum from your POV if its only you and me or you and wam as the last townies hasnt town already lost? I dont see how no elim advances our wincon at all?

And if its 9v3 then we can miselim here and go to 2v1 endgame so Im really not understanding why we would no elim but ELI5 please if its a thing

As I explained to Wam, Madge announces factional destruction, so we can throw out 2-2. I'm saying that Mafia did the kills (it's pretty clear from the Bessie kill flavor that they did at least that one).

The ELI5 is town is in a kingmaker situation where we can make either mafia or indies win, but town can't win on our own, because it's 2 undies, 1 mafia, 2 town.

I'm trying to leverage that into convincing the last mafia, theur best option is trying to kill Thea and Fredd and try to win in yeet or lose, which makes it possible for town to win again.

Here's the thing. Mafia has no reason to take your deal. If we were actually survivor lovers, we could just vote a townie at random and let scum hammer. Scum kills the last townie and we win together (or they can betray us and still win). But we could absolutely let mafia win by force and Town loses. They have no reason to risk LYLO against you because he deal we could offer is infinitely better--game is literally already over and Fred and I would just have to trust their beneficence not to kill us in the night.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 2:14 am Here's the thing. Mafia has no reason to take your deal. If we were actually survivor lovers, we could just vote a townie at random and let scum hammer. Scum kills the last townie and we win together (or they can betray us and still win). But we could absolutely let mafia win by force and Town loses. They have no reason to risk LYLO against you because he deal we could offer is infinitely better--game is literally already over and Fred and I would just have to trust their beneficence not to kill us in the night.

I made the offer to explain town compatibility last game day. It's still open.

Given you're still maintaining otherwise, Mafia has just as much reason to assume you win alone as town does.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 3:34 am Given you're still maintaining otherwise, Mafia has just as much reason to assume you win alone as town does.

And what possible benefit would there for me to do that?

I really am actually kind of hoping you are scum to be honest. Because if you're Town your play this game has been completely incomprehensible to me.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 5:52 am

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 3:34 am Given you're still maintaining otherwise, Mafia has just as much reason to assume you win alone as town does.

And what possible benefit would there for me to do that?

There's that obtuseness again.

As Seven said, xkcd has a history of working with town compatible indies. If you're say, a survivor lovers neither mafia nor town has any incentive to eliminate you anymore. Presuming you tell us the truth of course.

https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=81728#p81728

Link so we don't have long quote posts.

So maybe a terminology thing but SK is not an indy. Indys can win with any faction, SK needs to be last person standing to win.

Therefore I don't see how you can apply thay logic that if there was a pair of indy lovers they would have a godfather.

In your scenario is Fred a godfather?

No elim only pays if and only if thea and Fred are town lovers.

If they are not lovers we are throwing away an elim.

If they are lovers but not town your banking on them chosing town in a 1-1-2 situation. Or scum killing them overnight.

So by your world view adum there is 1 scum in me and mak,.who is it?

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 7:27 am

Theallieza wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 5:52 am

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 3:34 am Given you're still maintaining otherwise, Mafia has just as much reason to assume you win alone as town does.

And what possible benefit would there for me to do that?

There's that obtuseness again.

As Seven said, xkcd has a history of working with town compatible indies. If you're say, a survivor lovers neither mafia nor town has any incentive to eliminate you anymore. Presuming you tell us the truth of course.

That doesn't address my question at all.

If I'm survivor indy, I would full claim and then Fred and I just vote anyone. If mafia doesn't quickhammer, then we found scum and we win with Town. If mafia does quickhammer then we win with mafia (or they kill us for spite which is out of my control). There's no play left. If I'm not compatible with mafia, I do exactly the same thing, hope they NK Town and end up in a 2v1 against me and Fred.

You're so obsessed with being right about this read that you aren't thinking clearly about how such a game state could actually work in practice.

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 7:44 am https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=81728#p81728

Link so we don't have long quote posts.

So maybe a terminology thing but SK is not an indy. Indys can win with any faction, SK needs to be last person standing to win.

Therefore I don't see how you can apply thay logic that if there was a pair of indy lovers they would have a godfather.

In your scenario is Fred a godfather?

No elim only pays if and only if thea and Fred are town lovers.

If they are not lovers we are throwing away an elim.

If they are lovers but not town your banking on them chosing town in a 1-1-2 situation. Or scum killing them overnight.

So by your world view adum there is 1 scum in me and mak,.who is it?

By the same token, everyone else in the game has had a mechanical clear on them at some point in the game except you. Which result is false?

Theallieza wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 8:26 am

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 7:44 am https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=81728#p81728

Link so we don't have long quote posts.

So maybe a terminology thing but SK is not an indy. Indys can win with any faction, SK needs to be last person standing to win.

Therefore I don't see how you can apply thay logic that if there was a pair of indy lovers they would have a godfather.

In your scenario is Fred a godfather?

No elim only pays if and only if thea and Fred are town lovers.

If they are not lovers we are throwing away an elim.

If they are lovers but not town your banking on them chosing town in a 1-1-2 situation. Or scum killing them overnight.

So by your world view adum there is 1 scum in me and mak,.who is it?

By the same token, everyone else in the game has had a mechanical clear on them at some point in the game except you. Which result is false?

I'm leaning adum. Seven talked a lot about adum reacting that way as a godfather. It's on my to do list to dig those posts up.

Also that's why I was asking about adums alpha strike comment. It aligns with what I'm thinking, removal of Seven leaves just me without a clear makes endgame nice and easy for the godfather to slide to a win.

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 7:44 am https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=81728#p81728

Link so we don't have long quote posts.

So maybe a terminology thing but SK is not an indy. Indys can win with any faction, SK needs to be last person standing to win.

That's not what Indy means. Indy refers to a third party, any third party.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 8:17 am
That doesn't address my question at all.

If I'm survivor indy, I would full claim and then Fred and I just vote anyone. If mafia doesn't quickhammer, then we found scum and we win with Town. If mafia does quickhammer then we win with mafia (or they kill us for spite which is out of my control). There's no play left. If I'm not compatible with mafia, I do exactly the same thing, hope they NK Town and end up in a 2v1 against me and Fred.

You're so obsessed with being right about this read that you aren't thinking clearly about how such a game state could actually work in practice.

Because I clearly don't think you're a survivor. That's the entire point of this exercise.

And I think mafia has a reason to come to the exact same conclusion.

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 8:28 am I'm leaning adum. Seven talked a lot about adum reacting that way as a godfather. It's on my to do list to dig those posts up.

Bro, you supported the Santy yeet allowing them to yeet him right as Seven changed her mind about Thea and Fredd. That's her last words on record.

And if you're the last mafia, there's no way they're going along unless they have a way to stop you from killing them toNight.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 9:47 am

Theallieza wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 8:17 am
That doesn't address my question at all.

If I'm survivor indy, I would full claim and then Fred and I just vote anyone. If mafia doesn't quickhammer, then we found scum and we win with Town. If mafia does quickhammer then we win with mafia (or they kill us for spite which is out of my control). There's no play left. If I'm not compatible with mafia, I do exactly the same thing, hope they NK Town and end up in a 2v1 against me and Fred.

You're so obsessed with being right about this read that you aren't thinking clearly about how such a game state could actually work in practice.

Because I clearly don't think you're a survivor. That's the entire point of this exercise.

And I think mafia has a reason to come to the exact same conclusion.

It is so odd, isn't it, how you seem so certain you know exactly what mafia is thinking.

You've been giving me weird vibes since D2 and I think I will hate being wrong more about you than I will about Wam. I'll post a full case tomorrow or Monday.

Vote: Adum

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 9:46 am

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 7:44 am https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=81728#p81728

Link so we don't have long quote posts.

So maybe a terminology thing but SK is not an indy. Indys can win with any faction, SK needs to be last person standing to win.

That's not what Indy means. Indy refers to a third party, any third party.

Hey maybe how I have always done it in my head and I'm against the consensus, but as i see it all.indys are third parties but not all third parties are indys.

Indys are the ones who can win independently with each faction. There are anti town 3rd parties that aren't indys in my head, sk, cult etc. But I think this is a distraction

If you dknt think they are survivirs What do you think thea and Fred are?

Also your whole premise about the mods calling the end of a faction is wrong as I asked and they wouldn't call a faction being elimmed.

That's an amusing misinterpretion.

No, this is me trying to persuade mafia not to support you.

As mafia I'd have no reason to try to nix the Santy yeet, I've have no reason to suggest somi as an alternative yeet D2, no reason to hammer my partner D3 when Seven was suggesting Wam as an alternative, who I'd been all day.

Then there's the no kill n1, especially since if my double vote wasn't tied to my BP being used, why would I use it for day 2 and 3 instead of endgame?

But I recognize that this is you signaling to mafia that you want an alliance with me as the elim and hope that they accept you're mafia compatible, which if for no other reason, makes no sense given the flavor, the Chrono gardeners being the obvious Indy choice and explicitly responding to the hawk king.

But as a result, my arguments really don't matter, if mafia and you both decide to toss the dice you can win the night game, I can't stop you, but I think you're playing like fools to trust each other.

Excuse me, I meant I'd been on Wam all game.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 10:02 am

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 8:28 am I'm leaning adum. Seven talked a lot about adum reacting that way as a godfather. It's on my to do list to dig those posts up.

Bro, you supported the Santy yeet allowing them to yeet him right as Seven changed her mind about Thea and Fredd. That's her last words on record.

So you keep going 9n about my support for Sant yeet. But your not pushing Mak who was on the same wagon why?

Also look at it from my perspective other than seven who I was town reading l, everyone else I had a clear on.

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 9:20 pm Oh yes please

Fred you didn't answer my question. Why did.you hammer santy?

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 11:43 am

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 10:02 am

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 8:28 am I'm leaning adum. Seven talked a lot about adum reacting that way as a godfather. It's on my to do list to dig those posts up.

Bro, you supported the Santy yeet allowing them to yeet him right as Seven changed her mind about Thea and Fredd. That's her last words on record.

So you keep going 9n about my support for Sant yeet. But your not pushing Mak who was on the same wagon why?

Also look at it from my perspective other than seven who I was town reading l, everyone else I had a clear on.

I'm not pushing you or Mak.

I'm pointing out that if you're trusting Seven, her last word on the record is voting Thea. I'm also pointing out that your judgement around the Santy yeet was bad and consider trusting mine.