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AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:15 pm @everyone: I'd like thoughts on my game solve plan here: https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=81378#p81378

I think flipping literally anyone except Santy today is pants-on-head crazy.

Where I'm at

People I have reasons to think are not mafia:

Fred: Mason bro.
Seven: Pushed two scum eliminations, never busses.
Mak: Townclear bessie N3, pushed scum eliminations.
Wam: Counterwagon to two scum eliminations, pushed scum eliminations. Scum!Wam would not have watched Adum N1.
Adum: Townclear bessie, Seven N1, presumptive N1 kill.



PoE:
Santy: Pushed against both scum eliminations. Only player remaining with a particularly strong motivation to off JC.

FWIW, I suspect scum has a grab-bag of 1-shot powers similar to Hallowe'en 2023. Logically it seems like there was a Ninja kill N1, Strongman N2. I suspect scum was Godfather N3 and thus didn't care about bessie producing a result.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:17 pm

Wam wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 4:29 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 4:23 pm

Isnt it like, super bastard? Mason is literally confirming a town.

If you are town mason but the other is mafia godfather then you literally cant trust the purpose of your role. To me is one of the most bastard stuff known to man lol

But this is where the crazy ideas start to come in. Bearing in mind we have never independently confirm the masons. Would this be balanced enough to run?

Game starts 8/4
To balance out the scum team the mods did
A) enormous pile of town PR
B) made 2 of the scum team lovers
C) stopped them shooting N1

4 scum in an 12 (previously 11) player game is wild balance-wise. Like, that's enough scum for a 17+ player game.

Um... so in this theory, why exactly would I/we have bussed both of our partners so hard? With a 4 person voting block we could have easily flipped Town!you in D2 and made it to LYLO D3. Or done the same in D3, for that matter. What's my strategy here?

I did state crazy ideas and I hadnt got as far as looking at wagons.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:18 pm

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:15 pm @everyone: I'd like thoughts on my game solve plan here: https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=81378#p81378

I think flipping literally anyone except Santy today is pants-on-head crazy.

I'm on board if you can explain to me why scum have a bodyguard role?

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:56 pm
FWIW, I suspect scum has a grab-bag of 1-shot powers similar to Hallowe'en 2023. Logically it seems like there was a Ninja kill N1, Strongman N2. I suspect scum was Godfather N3 and thus didn't care about bessie producing a result.

Again, in AI you and Somi shared a role with shared powers. Namely Pack of All Trades.

If there's something like that, you and Fredd seem the most likely candidate to be sharing it and Doc avoidance is the only potential reason you're still alive that makes sense, so a D2 strongman makes particularly little sense given it was the most non-sensical kill.

And no, I don't think Santy doing it makes the JC NK make sense, especially with strongman access.

Wam wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:06 pm

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:18 pm

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:15 pm @everyone: I'd like thoughts on my game solve plan here: https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=81378#p81378

I think flipping literally anyone except Santy today is pants-on-head crazy.

I'm on board if you can explain to me why scum have a bodyguard role?

My suspicion is that the roles were created independently of their alignments. E.g. Sabrar and Madge decided they wanted these roles:

JoaT1
JoaT2
JoaT3
Backup
Doc/BG
Publishing Cop
Bulletproof Doublevoter
Traffic Cop
Rolecop
Motivator
Tracker/Watcher*

[*]They had a player join late and I think they split this role into two pieces

Then they randomly assigned alignments to each role.

JoaT1 - Town
JoaT2 - Town
JoaT3 - Town
Backup - Scum
Doc/BG - Scum
Publishing Cop - Town
Bulletproof Doublevoter - Town
Traffic Cop - Town
Rolecop - Scum
Motivator - Town
Mason Tracker - Town
Mason Watcher - Town

Then they gave scum a bunch of extra powers independent of their roles to balance the setup.

This is how I generally try to build my setups, so that you can't just look at someone's role and know that they are of a particular alignment.

Adum, are you a jester of some sorts?

I dont see how is that the best plan for town for your own pov.

Isnt like, for example yeeting Fred better? Even though I know its wrong thea is the one making more sense hahaha

Why there would be a bulletproof in the mafia in that worldbuilding thea? It makes no sense

Santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:19 pm Adum, are you a jester of some sorts?

I dont see how is that the best plan for town for your own pov.

Isnt like, for example yeeting Fred better? Even though I know its wrong thea is the one making more sense hahaha

?

Yes from my POV it's better that Fredd or Thea dies first, but this is a plan for everyone because I think we can basically all agree that Seven and Mak are town in this game state.

I also don't think mafia has a roleblock or a strongman, at least left, unless it's Wam because I don't think the JC kill would've happened with strongman and I don't think the they would've let Bessie's investigation through.

My plan uses three yeets to sort through all the slots the rest of town is suspicious of, I'm suggesting I go first due to pure efficiency.

This is the same rationale I used in Sorc's 11 where I proposed a similar plan (just with Fredd being first cause they claimed and we didnt wanna hit the hunter who hadn't claimed), and jesters are universally agreed to be bastard, plus I wouldn't have tried to get NK'd as a jester.

Santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 4:23 pm

Wam wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 4:13 pm Why is mason+godfather discarded?

Isnt it like, super bastard? Mason is literally confirming a town.

If you are town mason but the other is mafia godfather then you literally cant trust the purpose of your role. To me is one of the most bastard stuff known to man lol

Confirming that I am not a Godfather

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:10 am

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 7:17 pm I will say that I town read Adum and feel that the nontown info is wrong, and that is what I'm basing that town read off of. But emotions and reactions do factor in on some reads, which is the case with Mak for me. It could be theater, and he could be scum, but it doesn't feel that way and I'm willing to ride it out for now.

With Wam claiming to be a 3rd Joat, that bumps him up from bottom of the list to where I have Mak so you and Bessie drop down which means we're looking at a scum team of Moody, Somi, and Santy/Bessie...

Somehow it seems too easy to establish that already, but this is based off of Seven and Wam being honest... which I feel they are.

Totally going to bite me in the rear later, I'm sure.

JC had the whole team caught in D2.

Vote: Santy

Look someone who is paying attention!

Vote: Santy

Pretty much the only explanation for the JC nk imo, that kill made no sense, JC was a slot with mixed opinions on it, I was open buddying the slot and I got pushback on it so its not like he was widely considered towncore. Timing of that kill makes little sense but for this quoted post (I also shamlessly NKd slot just like this offsite in another game recently so Im biased af because I got caught this exact same way)

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:17 pm 4 scum in an 12 (previously 11) player game is wild balance-wise. Like, that's enough scum for a 17+ player game.

Um... so in this theory, why exactly would I/we have bussed both of our partners so hard? With a 4 person voting block we could have easily flipped Town!you in D2 and made it to LYLO D3. Or done the same in D3, for that matter. What's my strategy here?

This correct, 4 scum on the same team is for 16/17+ in more mountainous games, but even tho town is pretty stacked here I think it would still be to many for this game. I think its 2 sets of 2 scum, one set of 3 scum, or maybe 2 scum and an indy or two.

If its 2 sets of 2, thea and fred is an issue we have to reopen, especially because theas strong play this game is perfectly compatible with multiball scum just getting ez cred shredding the other team. Could see a lovers-esque non-killing team maybe with a weird parity rule or other abnormal wincon but that's pure speculation

Could seen it being somi/moody/santy + an indy, adum would be lead category there. Could totally see his character having some multistage win condition, like trigger your double to appear, get an ability off, then get one of your doubles to die in a specific way to "close the loop" or something like that. Ive seen predestination but never read the short story so its neat to see that source material. But yeah his role being indy would not schock me at all.

But yeah I think POE is flip santy here, maybe game ends. If it doesnt, adum next, and if hes town we have to step wayyyy back and really reconsider weird multiball stuff

Sorry bessie I will learn to read you better one day! I see now that moody was trying to play off your suspicion of me to keep me open as an option and wanted to build momentum thru pocketing you and getting people to flip on me which is honestly a decent strategy with her being the cop and people other than me believing her. Had we yeeted her yesterday instead of moody I would not have been surprised at all to be the lead elim today and I think moody was setting up for that, either hoping we would yeet wam and then he could NK bessie and make me look awful after her flip for pushing her. Big respect to scum!moody man put up a good fight for real

Ill be traveling for thanksgiving so not going to be crazy active this phase but tbh I dont think there is much to discuss, flip santy here and see if its just gg

So ya, I'm asking for mechanical potential issues or alternatively if I'm overlooking a major scumcase with Seven or Mak.

My plan isn't for me, my plan is for everyone, if I don't account for everyone's else's lack of knowledge of my slot, I obviously can't make a solve that the rest of town will follow through on, it's that simple.

But yeah Im very wary of adums weirdish "eagerness" to die, like he wants to flip at some exact preplanned moment or timing. It susses me out but given bessies flip I dont think we flip him before santy. I agree he gives strangely jesterish vibes

I am violently opposed to yeeting Santy

Well then you need to explain in excruciating detail why not, POE dictates this is the right play. Its also weird you are this far apart from your mason partner.

No, "vibes" is not good enough here, not by a long shot. If you have an exculpatory case for santy you need to submit it long form ASAP

Thea has not been communicating with me for a majority of the game. I have told them multiple times that Santy is not scum, with no response

Eyy finally communication

I do not have time for a long response right now

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:42 pm But yeah Im very wary of adums weirdish "eagerness" to die, like he wants to flip at some exact preplanned moment or timing. It susses me out but given bessies flip I dont think we flip him before santy. I agree he gives strangely jesterish vibes

As I said, I made the exact same decision in Sorc's, because plans are based on everyone's knowledge, not just mine:

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 4:44 am Actually, I'm pretty sure this game is effectively over mathmaticly.

Either Bessie is seer and Prince J is town, which means 4 of 7 spots are cleared and we have a guaranteed at least 3 town kills left between hunter and lynches. Hunter just has to target whichever of the 3 unconfirmed folks (myself, Freddie, heuristic) we're not currently lynching.

Or Bessie claims J is scum, which means we lynch prince J and then Bessie if they're town with the hunter targeting rhe other.

Or the real seer CCs, we lynch them and Bessie, with the hunter targeting the other of the two.


Unless Bessie fake claimed as town, that's it. Over, done. All scenarios lead to either two potential scum or 3 potential scum, with enough guaranteed kills to end them all, unless I'm misreading something about the setup.

As long as every townie cooperates.

Roles that miscommunicate alignment in death are explicitly bastard. So what exactly am I doing?

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:33 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:19 pm Adum, are you a jester of some sorts?

I dont see how is that the best plan for town for your own pov.

Isnt like, for example yeeting Fred better? Even though I know its wrong thea is the one making more sense hahaha

?

Yes from my POV it's better that Fredd or Thea dies first, but this is a plan for everyone because I think we can basically all agree that Seven and Mak are town in this game state.

I also don't think mafia has a roleblock or a strongman, at least left, unless it's Wam because I don't think the JC kill would've happened with strongman and I don't think the they would've let Bessie's investigation through.

My plan uses three yeets to sort through all the slots the rest of town is suspicious of, I'm suggesting I go first due to pure efficiency.

This is the same rationale I used in Sorc's 11 where I proposed a similar plan (just with Fredd being first cause they claimed and we didnt wanna hit the hunter who hadn't claimed), and jesters are universally agreed to be bastard, plus I wouldn't have tried to get NK'd as a jester.

Actually I double checked, and it's not in at least the linked Mafiascum definition of bastard, but I personally consider the role bastard and would not have continued in the game if I rolled it.

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:47 pm I do not have time for a long response right now

Thats fine when I say ASAP I really mean "atleast 48 hours before deadline"

If you wait till the last second I will aggressively blow you off

Thea not communicating much with you is def weird af to me tho like yall should be cleared to each other and great soundboards for tactics and such

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:18 pm

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:15 pm @everyone: I'd like thoughts on my game solve plan here: https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=81378#p81378

I think flipping literally anyone except Santy today is pants-on-head crazy.

If youre scum and mirroring my diction for more effective pocketing im gonna be so fucking mad cuz its working lmao

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:46 pm Thea has not been communicating with me for a majority of the game. I have told them multiple times that Santy is not scum, with no response

nvm, bad memory. It was Bessie