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Some points to consider (always keep in mind the assumption that at most 1 player is lying):

- the presence of 2 flavor-cops is verified, as it would take 2 false claims out of {Boomfrog, EGW, somitomi} to fake that.
- the game design of the 2 town cops having to work together feels extremely neat to me, if one of them is scum then the other basically has no purpose as they cannot uncover scum on their own.
- Boomfrog is about 98% cleared because they would have to be Godfather of some sort to fool the N1 investigation and I highly doubt that with cop-utility already restricted we would have GF in the game.
- In case Bop flips indie, then it is actually unlikely that Santy is scum. This is based on heury's claim that his kill takes priority. In that scenario there is no one who could have shot Mak as we yeeted wam, madge was devoured before she could perform the kill and Santy was jailed. Of course Santy could have Strongman.
- ahippo/philip should be confirmed as Motivator by now for everyone, as I have claimed RB for N2 and both of my targets confirmed it. It would take about 3 false claims if Motivator wouldn't be true.
- that basically leaves Santy, JC and heury. Santy's claim cannot be reasonably tested, so the safe play is to have heury shoot him and do cross-checks on everyone else. My idea is something like this:

• Both cops target JC
• We test Boomfrog's and JC's claim by having them track philip.
• heury shoots Santy
• I withhold my action
• philip targets randomly
• Santy's action (if true) shouldn't matter as heury's kill takes priority

D4 the claim order should be:
1) both cops
2) if they say JC is fine then Boomfrog claims next
3) next is JC
4) finally philip

If there is any discrepancy between two results then yeet both players in order and you're fine. Of course if heury cannot be confirmed then yeet him first.

This is the mechanical portion. Next we can discuss what should be modified depending on Bop's flip.

I'm also a little bit concerned that EGW didn't have anything to say in the last 2 days, just popped in to claim.

boomfrog wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 6:45 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 11:59 am If Bop flips other type of mafia > This would confirm multiball, and should only 1 partner from Bop remain in the game, with Sabrar/heury being our only clears. Want to reread Bop for this but imo my head goes to EGW/Somi as plausible partners (moreso Somi I think, but its also a fact how Bop never sussed EGW though I have to recheck this) , Somi is moreso the fact that they didnt care to wait to their flavor claim yesterday (maybe they alrrady knew it?)+the overly charitable read from today.

Why would you not sus me in this case?

Because the way Bop played off your idea + you thinking you were probably miller at SoD2 . Though I think the biggest factor in me not considering you is the likely clear you have from the 2 cops .
In my head you could fit as a parallel to Madge's role if we are indeed in multiball, but its not something that weighs that much for me tbh

Sabrar wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 7:39 pm I think I'm going to do this in small chunks as I finish a section, rather than a huge info-dump 2 days later.

As I mentioned previously, due to the closed setup at some point we will have to commit to some assumptions. It is impossible to analyze every scenario imaginable and come up with a coherent plan that takes everything into account. The first such big commitment is the number of non-town roles in the game.

With 15 players we can safely exclude 6 non-town, and if the game does not end after we yeet Bop then we know it's at least 4. Now comes the assumption. I believe we can also disregard 5 as a possibility. Looking at the wiki, we see that there are very few setups for 15 (and even 16) players with 5 non-town. It just doesn't feel right. It's not entirely impossible, however accounting for 2 more players lying with their claims is also terribly difficult and I'd rather not spend my time on that. So every analysis from now on will assume that we only need to find 1 more scum.

Fully agreed here. 5 non-town is *a lot* for a setup of 15, town should be much more strong if it were the case to try to make up for that, and only heury could fit the description of a powerful role from all the claims imo

Scum could be ligit tracker. I don't think JC is scum, but this plan doesn't clear him.

Sabrar wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 8:27 pm I'm also a little bit concerned that EGW didn't have anything to say in the last 2 days, just popped in to claim.

Given what he said today I feel like real life issues are the likely cause regardless of Alignment. Hoping everything is well

Sabrar , wouldnt one cop being scum render the other useless be the same as if one of the cops dies? While I do agree that the role feels towny dont think its good logic to clear them because of that. Regardless, both coordinating should be able to give us valuable info so not a priority regardless

Also I am strongly against making phillip targetting randomly. I havent gone into much detail, but I think if possible them motivating you Sabrar can potentially lock the game

boomfrog wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:02 pm Scum could be ligit tracker. I don't think JC is scum, but this plan doesn't clear him.

Both cops targeting JC should clear him.

Does heury kill really take priority? Thats busted and also inconvebient cuz them shooting me guaranteed my protection isnt going to happen smh

Sabrar wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:20 pm

boomfrog wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:02 pm Scum could be ligit tracker. I don't think JC is scum, but this plan doesn't clear him.

Both cops targeting JC should clear him.

What if one cop dies?

Santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:09 pmSabrar , wouldnt one cop being scum render the other useless be the same as if one of the cops dies? While I do agree that the role feels towny dont think its good logic to clear them because of that.

True, but then we get back to the old question: why have flavor cop in the first place? Role feels very weak either way, scum flavor cop makes absolutely no sense (unless maybe as part of a JOAT-set but then usage N1 was townie).

Santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:22 pmWhat if one cop dies?

Then probably JC has to be yeeted, depending on other results. Obviously in that case JC should claim before Boomfrog.

Again, there are too many possibilities to consider. What if Santy does not die? Does heury claim to be RB-ed or not? It is not necessary to make preparations for every single outcome, just evaluate it when results are known.

In my head the play should be somewhat centered around Sabrar, since Jailer is our biggest card.

Cops check Sabrar (only if Bop flips Indy. If Bop flips non Malevonce mafia they are super cleared).
Phillip Motivates Sabrar. Frog Bodyguards Sabrar
Heury shoots me or JC - Sabrar jails whoever heury doesnt shoot

Me and JC are sitting ducks for the phase, whoever Sabrar jails is cleared if there is a nk, or damned if not

Sabrar wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:26 pm Again, there are too many possibilities to consider. What if Santy does not die? Does heury claim to be RB-ed or not? It is not necessary to make preparations for every single outcome, just evaluate it when results are known.

Tell me if Im cooking or not with my proposed actions idea, because at least in my mind its more solid and doesnt have a more clear scum counterplay / its more broad. In most scenarios where me/JC doesnt contain the last scum the plan fails its purpose.

My proposed actions at least feels like it covers that + leaves you all at a better position game-wise (as in, you being cleared with a double Jail to use)

Santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:31 pm In most scenarios where me/JC doesnt contain the last scum the plan fails its purpose.

My proposed actions at least feels like it covers that

I don't see this part, my plan checks Boomfrog, yours doesn't. I agree that me being motivated again would be useful, I'm somewhat scared that we would misclear because of Strongman. I've jailed both you and JC last night and still there was a scum-kill. So if Bop flips indie then we might have to do something completely different.

I mean, Boomfrog doesnt need to be checked? As you said, they have already the check from both cops, and proved their psychic power. I dont know how proving their tracker changes anything.

Frog also said it, scum can just legit have a tracker.

I think scum having tracker is more likely than scumhaving unlimited strongarm or something tbh

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2025 6:21 pm Btw something else so should probably claim is that my ability outprioritizes a standard kill but other special kills may outprioritize my kill. We haven't seen any other special kills, but it is a possibility in this game still

Can you expand on this heury? What does outprioritizes mean?
The target you kill cannot kill , or is it that you kill even if you are killed ? What happens if you try to kill a bodyguard, do they get to guard ?

Santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:27 pm In my head the play should be somewhat centered around Sabrar, since Jailer is our biggest card.

Cops check Sabrar (only if Bop flips Indy. If Bop flips non Malevonce mafia they are super cleared).
Phillip Motivates Sabrar. Frog Bodyguards Sabrar
Heury shoots me or JC - Sabrar jails whoever heury doesnt shoot

Me and JC are sitting ducks for the phase, whoever Sabrar jails is cleared if there is a nk, or damned if not

I forgot that Frog already traffic analysed you, so you should be clear mech-wise regardless and cops can coordinate on another player hmmm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:27 pm Me and JC are sitting ducks for the phase, whoever Sabrar jails is cleared if there is a nk, or damned if not

Incorrect, scum could withhold to gamble on a missyeet. This is a very common scenario in an endgame.

Santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:21 pm Does heury kill really take priority? Thats busted and also inconvebient cuz them shooting me guaranteed my protection isnt going to happen smh

It outprioritizes standard kills, not protections.

I imagine the purpose of been not able to outprioritize is to ensure that death mason activates on all my targets. With the exception of a potential more special kill, which maybe scum have a 1 shot override everything

I like Sabrar's plan, and frankly I'm feeling unmotivated to come up with anything better. Maybe let's say, the motivate should target between Somi, EGW and Sabrar. That's enough variance to make guessing hard but still ensures it goes to a useful target.

I could make a case for why Santy is the next most likely scum if there's any left but the long and short of it is he's a try hard and I think this is in his scum range. And bodyguard is a weak power and strange when we also have a jailer and JOAT bodyguard shot.

If Bop flips scum or either mafia I think I'd take out Santy next in all cases, so my vote is:

Heury eats Santy

heuristically_alone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 12:20 am I imagine the purpose of been not able to outprioritize is to ensure that death mason activates on all my targets. With the exception of a potential more special kill, which maybe scum have a 1 shot override everything

Can you ask the mod if you devouring the player who is carrying out the mafia elem would stop it?