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Sabrar wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:38 pm @Santygrass: please elaborate on how you knew wam's claim was fake (besides flavor).

Because I am bodyguard. It would be extremely OP if I had another player that passively prevented me from dying while I am protecting someone else.

Laser protected Mak n1 , N2 I think near the end I softed quite strongly who I was trying to protect haha

Also that why I said I was self-resolving earlier, with correct usage I am just very likely to end up dying .

As long as Im alive we can make sure someone doesnt die and I take their place. Can just guard heury and make sure we got at least 2 shots from them if all goes well f.e.

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 4:44 pm
You might want to reassess on that thought real quick hmmyes.

When I get to reread I try to reasses anyway. I'll think on your points.

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:28 pm

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:39 am Madge, Heldalf, Malevolance Mafia Jack of all trades, has been devoured.

But all is not well.

"He had all the 8 types of Malevolance, you may fully awake once again and retake your throne, nameless Empyrean. Innominat."

Music to set the stage

The ground around the remaining party shudders as the very earth pulse convulses.

Then, a greyish aura starts emerging in populated areas. The party, out searching for Sorey, sees it from afar and rush back to Pendrago. What they are met with, chills them to their very soul.

Everyone in the city is acting like emotionless husks without any free will.

Visual illustration.

"Oh no", the still weak Eleanor moans, "it's happening again".

This is far from over.

@Bop fille me in here if there are any other alternatives or events. But does this point to Innominat being present in the game? y/n ?
If it is, how likely they are indy vs part of the malevolence mafia?

It feels like it does point to them being in the game-the initial D1 flavor pointed to the Lord of Calamity spreading malevolence, i.e, Madge. And if this follows, indy feels more right to me than another malevolence mafia member flavor wise. Immonant and those who use his power are specifically doing the "emotionless husks without any free will" plan to get rid of all malevolence(bc negative emotions are how humans fall to it). If they existed at the same time, they'd be opposed. So I feel like a scum indy is more likely but then I have to think of this game as multiball and that inherently complicates all my reads.

Sabrar wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:47 pm @JC: don't you feel you also owe us some claims?

Nope

Okay then.

Vote: JC

Sabrar wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:19 pm Okay then.

Vote: JC

Weak

I don't care.

Sabrar wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:24 pmI don't care.

You obviously don't. You should though.

Elim preference: heury

I think it's more likely he's Sk than town vig, and I think Santy is being ridiculously naive by having him as a hard clear.

moody7277 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:32 pm Elim preference: heury

I think it's more likely he's Sk than town vig, and I think Santy is being ridiculously naive by having him as a hard clear.

I agree with this.

moody7277 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:19 am I'm saying she had a loudener ability that I told her she should use on heury because I thought he'd be the one to do the NK. Right for the wrong reason here.

Ah, madge loudened Heury, that's a bit amusing

phillip1882 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 3:56 pm i never know what to type for these things. can anyone recommend a good target for my power?

I can't help you with that, but can you answer this?

somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:53 am @philip: please claim whether you're Zestiria or Berseria and if you're aligned with a Lord of Calamity

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 4:35 pm Theory-wise it should be. If not claiming Cop its clearing which I just dont agree should be the case . Like, for example we can treat the proven flavor cop in EGW case as a positive , but not as *clearing*. I always treat mech (and specially mech-speculation) as a complement to social solving

But the whole idea of two cops complementing each other doesn't work if one of them is scum. And also, what use is the flavor cop to mafia?
Claiming cop is normally clearing, but since the cop is prime NK target it all balances out and cops don't claim unless they have a guilty result or need to avoid being eliminated.

Bop wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 4:26 pm But also, if Mak was right here and we've got an independent or multiball scum who gains power from killing and devouring certain people(needing to eat malevolence...being mentioned in flavor as "waking up" after devouring Malevolence Mafia) I wouldn't exactly clear heury who matches the flavor and was kinda forced to claim after being loudened. That concerns me greatly too.

What do you think of Heury saying he didn't even notice that and claimed regardless?

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:23 pm Somitomi - Other than Bubblez Ateing EoD in a very towny way , I cant point to something else being towny. And its also a fact that they claimed their flavor alignments *after* Bop explained the implications. Fits a mafia team that struggled in that department imo

For the record I was waiting for JC to get their claim out in accordance with the claim order as set by moody

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:01 pm Also that why I said I was self-resolving earlier, with correct usage I am just very likely to end up dying .

Yeah, I actually suspected something like that might be the case when you said that.

The other thing about the flavor cops working together to solve... wouldn't that require them to out themselves? I doubt they have their own channel to speak and work with each other.

I think the game design is that they are useless until one is outed and claims all they're info then someone starts comparing notes.

moody7277 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:32 pm Elim preference: heury

I think it's more likely he's Sk than town vig, and I think Santy is being ridiculously naive by having him as a hard clear.

I suggest you read my post again, heury is hard cleared from being malevolence mafia , Im not taking Indys into consideration

Or if a non cop claims early they could maybe be caught in a lie.

I think the roles are intended to be balanced around much weaker versions of standard roles.

@Bop, how many mafia do you think are left?

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:19 pm

moody7277 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:32 pm Elim preference: heury

I think it's more likely he's Sk than town vig, and I think Santy is being ridiculously naive by having him as a hard clear.

I suggest you read my post again, heury is hard cleared from being malevolence mafia , Im not taking Indys into consideration

Are you saying multiball is off the table? Because you still have bessie's death to account for, and it's the same flavor as Madge's.

moody7277 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:40 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:19 pm

moody7277 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:32 pm Elim preference: heury

I think it's more likely he's Sk than town vig, and I think Santy is being ridiculously naive by having him as a hard clear.

I suggest you read my post again, heury is hard cleared from being malevolence mafia , Im not taking Indys into consideration

Are you saying multiball is off the table? Because you still have bessie's death to account for, and it's the same flavor as Madge's.

Im saying you should reread.
Because a) heury also claimed the bessie kill today to be from them. They are either vig or the scum doing the killings (be sk or another mafia). And b) I did say for now I wouldnt yeet considering multiball or indy hunt, we can force heury to target who we want, and depending on what flips tomorrow we will be sure or not if Malevonce mafia is still here or not.
If malevolence is not killing anymore, or heury doesnt kill who we say , we yeet them

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:38 am

somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:35 am @mod: Would the flip reveal if/when a faction is eliminated?

nope, sorry!

already answered

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:38 am

somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:35 am @mod: Would the flip reveal if/when a faction is eliminated?

nope, sorry!

@Moody7277

Thanks.

somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:54 pm What do you think of Heury saying he didn't even notice that and claimed regardless?

Totally missed it! That removes the forced bit! I still don't think they're inherently cleared, but I don't think most of our givens are.

boomfrog wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:19 pm @Bop, how many mafia do you think are left?

1-2? (making the total in-game at most 4. 5 would be a third of max player count from the start, that seems crazy.). To me it's either a. 1 Malevolence and a sk, b. just the sk, or c. 2 from a separate mafia faction. Either way, to me the Immonant awakening from devouring all 8 types of malevolence flavor from today points to a clear separate negative player or faction we have to deal with no matter how I slice it. Which

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:35 pm b) I did say for now I wouldnt yeet considering multiball or indy hunt, we can force heury to target who we want, and depending on what flips tomorrow we will be sure or not if Malevonce mafia is still here or not.
If malevolence is not killing anymore, or heury doesnt kill who we say , we yeet them

This just seems foolish to me. If there is multiball at all, we've potentially made no progress on that front, and it only helps that person/faction to pretend they can't exist today(especially if we've cleared them based on madge/wam).

And in your strat with heury, couldn't a remaining Malevolence just not use their kill, or get role blocked, leaving you to think "oh, we're safe, lets go kill heury?" And in the other hypothetical where no Malevolence are left, we're be going off of almost fully outdated information in terms of clears and reads. And a hypothetical sk heury would love to kill who we say bc it wouldn't make a difference to them winning.

boomfrog wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:17 pm I think the game design is that they are useless until one is outed and claims all they're info then someone starts comparing notes.

Right! I think the flavor/mech puzzle box situation we started yesterday was intended.

Bop wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2025 12:06 am

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:35 pm b) I did say for now I wouldnt yeet considering multiball or indy hunt, we can force heury to target who we want, and depending on what flips tomorrow we will be sure or not if Malevonce mafia is still here or not.
If malevolence is not killing anymore, or heury doesnt kill who we say , we yeet them

This just seems foolish to me. If there is multiball at all, we've potentially made no progress on that front, and it only helps that person/faction to pretend they can't exist today(especially if we've cleared them based on madge/wam).

And in your strat with heury, couldn't a remaining Malevolence just not use their kill, or get role blocked, leaving you to think "oh, we're safe, lets go kill heury?" And in the other hypothetical where no Malevolence are left, we're be going off of almost fully outdated information in terms of clears and reads. And a hypothetical sk heury would love to kill who we say bc it wouldn't make a difference to them winning.

This is plain wrong.

First, we *have* made progress even if its multiball, potentially wiping out a faction is one hell of progress to me. And its only benefitial to that scum/indy only if they are cleared/unpaired from the other mafia, we still have PoE slots that are useful to sort through in BOTH multiball and non multiball scenarios, so until having further info/confirmation to me is just a no brainer to solve the slots that no matter the scenario can be scum.

If they dont use their kill, its good for us still. If they get RB'ed is good and have potential info on why it happened later when we see a kill again. And like, doesnt matter if SK!Heury loves that kill, the matter of fact is that it helps *us* more , we have them on a leash regardless and can solve.

I dont mind foolishly believing a potential SK!Heury here for a day, against just doing a very dumb move if heury is town vig here and yeeting them. To me its just playing optimal way and not assuming stuff about the setup when we have no confirmation

heury's read on Bessie D1:

here 4th towniest out of 13 (he includes himself and declares Madge "Secret Mod")

here 7th out of 13

when he went all nerdy with the charts, he put an x for the intersection with himself instead of a 15, and apparently "secret mod" translates to middle of the pack. bessie is given an 8

I put an X on everyone for themself.