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Santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:55 am And also the no cop on n1, to cop the mason on n2 which didnt align with their approach from before, just because it was better "objectively" also hard to believe for myself

Wam said a couple times that he was paranoid about me/Fred so I don't think this was an entirely unreasonable play. His night action usage has been fairly reasonable IMHO.

Wam wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:18 pm 2. Is an objection because how when I made the false claim did I know that JC didn't watch you as well. Hence why it would be stupid to claim visiting ehen you didn't.

But the other bit is my powers are one shot, so I'm trying to poke at why you haven't thought this through. So if it was a false clai, I either

A) watched someone else, why wouldn't I claim that? Who could I have watched that would make me look scummy?

B) I used a different power which is going to become blindingly obvious as the game goes on as I won't have one of the claimed ones and will have a watcher.

But I'm done on this. Believe me or don't. But your theory is full of holes your not seeing and assumes I'm smart enough to add publishing to the cop but not smart enough at the same time to add loud to the obviously loud joats.

I really don't care what you're done with, these are just possible explanations for the inconsistency, but we have no clue what JC actually did and the inconsistency is what says it's a fake claim.

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:12 pm Adum, you’re ignoring that JC also likely watched you and likely received the same result as Wam.

I'm not ignoring it because I don't believe it.

Wam wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:26 pm My experience is bessie claims when needed and thinks it through I saw no evidence of that it was her thinking strategically it was just thrown back at me as questions.

Bessie holds off on claiming until it is needed. Why on earth would she claim immediately at the start of day. She had no idea whether Adum would be miselimmed at that point, and no idea you guys would go blood thirsty aggressive for a quick elimination.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:29 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:12 pm Adum, you’re ignoring that JC also likely watched you and likely received the same result as Wam.

I'm not ignoring it because I don't believe it.

That is a logical error.

bessie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 3:26 am

Is your power compulsive?

And to clarify "from the beginning", means you know your sanity each night you use it from the beginning of the game right?

I will eliminate moody and wam only. Neither of their reasonings for their reads on Bessie are sensible. Additionally, Wam and Adum are the only players who weren’t being observed last night, so it is likely one of them did the kill. I’m not sold that the kill came from Indy. In fact, I don’t think I buy into it at all.

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:30 pm

Wam wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:26 pm My experience is bessie claims when needed and thinks it through I saw no evidence of that it was her thinking strategically it was just thrown back at me as questions.

Bessie holds off on claiming until it is needed. Why on earth would she claim immediately at the start of day. She had no idea whether Adum would be miselimmed at that point, and no idea you guys would go blood thirsty aggressive for a quick elimination.

It's probably a different mindset but I don't know how your an insane publishing cop and don't assume a town player with a public not tow result.is not.going to be the elim.

Adum certainly assumed that when they came back in.

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:30 pm

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:29 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:12 pm Adum, you’re ignoring that JC also likely watched you and likely received the same result as Wam.

I'm not ignoring it because I don't believe it.

That is a logical error.

You're making an assumption that don't seem to fit with the mechanics. Wam HAD to lie about something, otherwise his results wouldn't be inconsistent like this. I already asked him to explain the ability in detail and he gave nothing that would explain it. Even if you're right and it's just adding the publishing modifier.

And the funny thing is, this is just explaining how the idea he can't be paired with whoever submitted the kill on me. He's also just scum from play.

Wam wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:36 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:30 pm

Wam wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:26 pm My experience is bessie claims when needed and thinks it through I saw no evidence of that it was her thinking strategically it was just thrown back at me as questions.

Bessie holds off on claiming until it is needed. Why on earth would she claim immediately at the start of day. She had no idea whether Adum would be miselimmed at that point, and no idea you guys would go blood thirsty aggressive for a quick elimination.

It's probably a different mindset but I don't know how your an insane publishing cop and don't assume a town player with a public not tow result.is not.going to be the elim.

Adum certainly assumed that when they came back in.

I did not assume that actually. Seven had already claimed their result and either way I think if I really wanted I could've played through it.

My issue was (and still is frankly, but not to the degree I initially thought) a disagreement about what constitutes bastard.

Wam wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:36 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:30 pm

Wam wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:26 pm My experience is bessie claims when needed and thinks it through I saw no evidence of that it was her thinking strategically it was just thrown back at me as questions.

Bessie holds off on claiming until it is needed. Why on earth would she claim immediately at the start of day. She had no idea whether Adum would be miselimmed at that point, and no idea you guys would go blood thirsty aggressive for a quick elimination.

It's probably a different mindset but I don't know how your an insane publishing cop and don't assume a town player with a public not tow result.is not.going to be the elim.

Adum certainly assumed that when they came back in.

Exactly how many eliminations on xkcd have you seen occur before the end of day. Santy in Dancer is the only one I can recall in all my time playing here. Why would Bessie be under the mindset that this wouldn’t hold true. You’re being maliciously uncharitable.

bessie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 3:26 am

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:51 pm We elim bessie today. Mak is never wrong when he’s like this. Adum could you claim though? It would help with the paranoia.

Why the pressure on Adum to claim? Suspicious.

I know this is directed at Seven, but since I've been pushing this as well, I will say that I do not think there is any benefit in Town hiding actions or abilities at this stage in the game where most of the cards are already on the table. It only creates space for scum to hide. Having everything in the open and forcing accountability for everyone's actions is the path forward in this type of setup. As we've discussed before, I feel that people who hold their claims till the end have a significantly higher chance of flipping scum that people who are open with their claims. Santy and Adum (and Moody, I suppose) are all suspicious in my mind for their lack of transparency.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 11:02 pm 1) Would mean that two mafia, both Wam and bessie, targeted Adum separately with their powers AND tried to NK him. This seems... extremely implausible.
2) Would mean that Somi did not rolecop Mak, so the only way he could know Mak's exact role is if Somi and Mak are mafia. So the only team that works is Somi/Mak/Wam.
3) Wam and Somi are not mafia together.

Wam and somi both knew my role (Wam from claim, somi from role fishing). Why not Wam got my role, and somi was doing the role fishing to find out my sanity? And I totally think Wam is a good enough player to get “Publishing Cop” and figure out it was me, and that I had to be paranoid orinsane.


Sorry that this post is kinda rushed but content overload and I’ve already been typing for over an hour. I’ll read more carefully after I cook Hoku’s dinner.

My hypothesis is that if Wam watched Adum, then it is very unlikely that he would have participated in a NK on Adum. I think there is a world where scum!Wam would be interested in watching Adum to try to see who the protective and/or investigative roles might be, but not at the same time that he would be trying to do a kill there. So I do not think that Wam and Somi are aligned. Wam might be otherscum or indy, but I don't think he's in the same camp as Somi.

I snipped your question about a mafia supporter and don't want to dig up the quote. I can't rule it out but there isn't really any direct evidence either. Not really in my current theorycraft but I guess it's possible.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:37 pm And the funny thing is, this is just explaining how the idea he can't be paired with whoever submitted the kill on me.

Ebwop:
And the funny thing is, this is just explaining how the idea he can't be paired with whoever submitted the kill on me is wrong.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:37 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:30 pm

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:29 pm

I'm not ignoring it because I don't believe it.

That is a logical error.

You're making an assumption that don't seem to fit with the mechanics. Wam HAD to lie about something, otherwise his results wouldn't be inconsistent like this. I already asked him to explain the ability in detail and he gave nothing that would explain it. Even if you're right and it's just adding the publishing modifier.

And the funny thing is, this is just explaining how the idea he can't be paired with whoever submitted the kill on me. He's also just scum from play.

I’m not making any assumptions. JC targeted you. JC made a statement that Wam was correct on the Publishing Cop. It can be inferred then that JC Watched you and received the same result. You’re also not considering that there is a clear difference between bessie’s role and the others.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 4:22 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:07 pm Bessie progression on somi

Also please read since insights of people with more knowledge of bessie's meta are needed

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

bessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:51 am Woof

bessie – Dog.

Wam – Town.

somitomi – Town lean.

Santygrass – Town lean.

Theallieza – Town lean.

AdumbroDeus – town lean, however, I am a bit suspicious

JC_DADDY25 – neutral

the worst – Scum lean.

Makhaira – Scum lean.

Freddino18 – Scum lean.

moody7277 –Possible scum

Seven – Scummy.

(This post was edited to be more easy to read)

bessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 6:36 pm

Suspicious for the same reason it was suspicious when Seven did it.

bessie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 3:15 am Tentative reads list.

Woof
bessie
JC
Theallieza
The worst
Wam
Santygrass
moody
Makhaira
Adum
somitomi
Seven
Fred
Grr


Seven has been sick so I will update if he posts more content tonight.
Fred is my strongest scum read.

bessie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 7:54 am Some meta for those that don’t know me well. I HATE EARLY CLAIMS!

I’m having a hard time convincing myself to move my vote off someone who’s not actually contributing and doesn’t care enough about the game to vote.

My next scummiest reads are somi and Seven and I don’t think either is happening.

IT IS NOW D2

bessie wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 1:48 am
Interesting opening post from somitomi. He responded to Seven so he’s reading the thread, and he is deliberately not commenting on any discussion thus far.



No, just introverted, cocky, insane, and tired, I've had one hell of a day.



Curious that you accept Adum as confirmed non-town. Why haven’t you elaborated on this? Who do you think is scum with Adum.

bessie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 2:59 am

Then why didn’t you vote for Adum!?



Interesting! Please explain how you accept Adum as town, but not Seven for derailing Adum’s elimination!

bessie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 11:30 pm

Interesting! You suspect scum!Seven derail an almost guaranteed yeet of the strongest and towniest player in the game just for town cred! Even though if Adum is not eliminated, Adum’s alignment is not confirmed so the town cred Seven is trying for may or may not happen! I think your reasoning is scummy!



Think creatively!


Woof
the worst
bessie
Adum
Seven
JC
Makhaira
Moody
Santygrass
Thea
Fred
somitomi
Wam
Grr


Vote: Wam

bessie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:20 am
1. Yes. If we eliminated Fred, the worst might still be alive. We wouldn’t know the worst’s alignment but he would be generating reads and content and asking questions. And, if Fred flipped town mason, Thea would be confirmed town and we could trust her reads, and not waste any investigations on either of them. If Fred didn’t flip town mason, we would have an easy yeet today.
2. I would have reluctantly swung to somitomi. Reason for not going to Seven, per xkcd tradition he was sick so he gets a little of an allowance for his lack of Zen level D1 content. Reason for “reluctant” modifier, I have a history of tunneling somi into the ground on D1 regardless of either of our alignments. See here: https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=47589#p47589
I am consciously trying to get away from this because I recognize that I do it, so I have been giving him a D1 pass even if I find him scummy. https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=47858#p47858
I think it was another game that I was almost voted off on D1 because I didn’t want to vote somi on D1. But I’m done looking through old games because I’ve been working on this post for almost an hour and I’m on page 36 of 43.


Quicker readthrough.



Noting this for now. I will think about it, but my initial reaction doesn’t change my original read.

Did bessie have a meta of not bussing? I have that recollection from past game, but others chiming in would be appreciated here to see if its clearing. I dont think bessie *voted* somi , but the way they changed the initial townlean to then adamantly sus somi since D1 seems rather unpairing, specially if their meta is that they dont like to bus

I don't think I have ever seen bessie vote for a partner before. She might give a partner a scumlean if she feels it is warranted but will rarely actively push a partner.

@seven you might want to reread what thea said?

Also, Im at work and not fully here. And saw Seven saying that JC used the watcher on Adum or something like that.

Wouldnt that make it possible that scum wam actually watched or "stole" JC result? Is another mech explanation on why they have that info despite scum attempting to kill adum (if that were the case)

@seven you might want to reread what thea said?

bessie was not actively pushing for somi to be ellimed.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:28 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:55 am And also the no cop on n1, to cop the mason on n2 which didnt align with their approach from before, just because it was better "objectively" also hard to believe for myself

Wam said a couple times that he was paranoid about me/Fred so I don't think this was an entirely unreasonable play. His night action usage has been fairly reasonable IMHO.

I read their ISO, and only found it once near EoD. Before they were towncoring both of you even assuming multiball.

As a fact, they said in that only mention that they would believe that all joats are non town, or that you/fred are scum.

They have the greencheck on you, see that JC flipped town joat, and havent pursued Seven as sus at all. I was witholding that information until Wam made a pish in the day to see if that rationale was pursued. But obviously it isnt and is more likely fake thoughts from Wam

Wam wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 1:44 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 1:29 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 1:26 pm Santy
Thea - Fred

Adum

Mak
Seven
Bessie

Moody

Wam

Current readlist kinda sorted

Edited to better reflect grade of confidence between some reads

Why Mak over seven?

I think Mak is more unpaired + less indy equity. But its not that big of a difference. First answer that came to mind is 'eh maybe I should switch them' haha~.

Vote: moody

I think moody and Santy are more or less the only people who I think make sense as partners to somi. Santy, actually, probably has the best reason to have killed JC in the night so I think that's somewhere that is worth following up on regardless of moody's flip.

I think Wam is probably a great information yeet. My gut is that he is a miss but I'd be willing to go there over other choices.

bessie and Mak I'm fairly confident are both misses.

Adum's claim of one-shot BP looks like a huge outlier in this setup and I don't believe that he has no night actions of any sort. His play today has been very strange. I'm parking this read for now and I will try to come back to it later.

Town
Thea
Fred
Seven
Mak
bessie

Probably not mafia, maybe indy
Wam
Adum

Possible scum
moody
Santy

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:44 pm

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:37 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:30 pm That is a logical error.

You're making an assumption that don't seem to fit with the mechanics. Wam HAD to lie about something, otherwise his results wouldn't be inconsistent like this. I already asked him to explain the ability in detail and he gave nothing that would explain it. Even if you're right and it's just adding the publishing modifier.

And the funny thing is, this is just explaining how the idea he can't be paired with whoever submitted the kill on me. He's also just scum from play.

For clarity I don't agree with your interpretation.

I’m not making any assumptions. JC targeted you. JC made a statement that Wam was correct on the Publishing Cop. It can be inferred then that JC Watched you and received the same result. You’re also not considering that there is a clear difference between bessie’s role and the others.

For clarity, it's this post.

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 1:43 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 1:37 pm What does that mean/imply JC?

Sorry, phone posting...

Wam actually name dropped the Publishing Cop, there is no way he would know the actual name of a role if he was making up his action.

I think you're overreading into this (like you thought me trying to convey a plan to you was crumbing a role, or like how last year you thought I had role info that Heury wasn't human).

This doesn't read like role information, this is both too overt and too casual. I think if he had information to the contrary he would've counterclaimed instead of this, but it reads as his estimation based on things like, the cop not seeing him.

It IS different, because loud publishes role targeting and publishing publishes results. But I fully disagree that they're different enough to show up differently, either in results or flip.

It IS different, because loud publishes role targeting and publishing publishes results. But I fully disagree that they're different enough to show up differently, either in results or flip.

That’s not the difference I am speaking of.

Sabrar wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 3:58 pm 9 players alive and 6 to hammer (still not a typo)

This is still super weird.

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:35 pm I will eliminate moody and wam only. Neither of their reasonings for their reads on Bessie are sensible. Additionally, Wam and Adum are the only players who weren’t being observed last night, so it is likely one of them did the kill. I’m not sold that the kill came from Indy. In fact, I don’t think I buy into it at all.

You never responded to how you feel about Moody's "you're next" post to FF.

Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:12 pm

It IS different, because loud publishes role targeting and publishing publishes results. But I fully disagree that they're different enough to show up differently, either in results or flip.

That’s not the difference I am speaking of.

Then what is the difference?