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Santygrass wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:21 pm

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:17 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 1:32 pm

Wha
Why Im at the bottom? And why are you voting Seven and not me ?

So, I've felt this slot belonged on the bottom since last day phase, and had my vote there. Thing is, I also feel Seven is scum and feel the solve is there.

I wouldn't mind switching the vote to you though.

Still doesnt answer my question. Did you vote Seven first because Im a sub ?
And what last phase did you make think that? None of the events from today, or what I did had made you reconsider? (As in, I feel like you came into the day with a conclussion already and are not looking to reassess on it or absorb new information into your solve)

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:35 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:21 pm

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:17 pm
So, I've felt this slot belonged on the bottom since last day phase, and had my vote there. Thing is, I also feel Seven is scum and feel the solve is there.

I wouldn't mind switching the vote to you though.

Still doesnt answer my question. Did you vote Seven first because Im a sub ?
And what last phase did you make think that? None of the events from today, or what I did had made you reconsider? (As in, I feel like you came into the day with a conclussion already and are not looking to reassess on it or absorb new information into your solve)

I voted Seven this day phase because of the way she started the day phase, and no nothing you have done or said has made me reconsider because by your and Seven's explanations...you're a damn good wolf.

bessie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:53 am

Theallieza wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 6:35 pm I am specifically curious why you think that Wam's result was manipulated, rather than that Wam's result is correct and Seven is lying Town. This is the simplest explanation that is sufficient to explain all of the data. It's weird that your default assumption is that this is some sort of a scum power play against you rather than Seven doing Seven things. What's your working theory for why scum!Seven would behave this way?

If you have a specific role-related reason why you believe Wam's result is manipulated, I'd strongly encourage you to share it.

I think Wam’s result was manipulated because I think Seven lying scum. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Hmm, I was thinking about this, and I think the problem is that you are not seeing my point of view. You are looking at it like one of town!Seven’s gambits because you don’t know either of our alignments. Conversely, I do know one of our alignments, and am using my knowledge of one to formshape my theories of the alignment of the other.

I have no specific role-related reason to believe Wam’s Seven result was manipulated. Ot that Wam’s result on you was manipulated. Is that the information for which you were fishing?

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:33 pm There might be one bussing scum committed to going deep. Presumably Santy in that case.

Santygrass wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:36 pm Deadline is tomorrow though no?

Makhaira wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 5:41 am

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2024 3:22 pm So Seven is lying town. I'm a VT cop, N1 seven came up as vt. Night 2 Thea, came up as vt.

So.thats a town core of 3 which should be enough!

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2024 1:33 pm That's L-2, please hold

I'm waiting for an answer from the mod then I will post wams game winning solution. Or.some approximation of that.

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2024 7:55 am

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2024 7:43 am @Madge @Wam I don't have anything further I wish to claim (yes, I'm aware this just makes it further look like I'm gambiting). But Wam, you of all people know that I'm good.

Your also lying and whilst I don't always agree with it a lot of people have a elim all liers policy.

@ SEVEN & @ THEA

I want each of your answers to the following: What is significant about the relationship between these three specific posts as it pertains to Wam's credibility and what trap am I being deceptive about with this post?

Makhaira wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:04 am

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 4:28 pm Wam and Seven's claims directly contradict each other. No way both can be telling the truth. I can verify Wam at least is telling the truth about his result on me. Based on this, Seven seemed to know that Wam had a result on him, and doesn't seem to be pushing back against Wam contradicting him, so I think the most likely conclusion and the most consistent with Seven's meta in particular is that Seven is lying Town.

I don't think that Wam is likely to be scum here, though I did seem him claim a clear on someone who was Town as mafia before (Stellaris, I think it was).

I don't care for bessie's reaction to this and will need to spend some time rereading her. If she is scum it has been a long while since she has snowed me so completely, but I suppose I can't rule it out.

How does town!Seven (who is also a VT in this world) know for sure that Wam is town that town!Wam has confirmation that Seven is in fact town at the point Seven made the linked post?

Santygrass wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:37 pm

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:35 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:21 pm

Still doesnt answer my question. Did you vote Seven first because Im a sub ?
And what last phase did you make think that? None of the events from today, or what I did had made you reconsider? (As in, I feel like you came into the day with a conclussion already and are not looking to reassess on it or absorb new information into your solve)

I voted Seven this day phase because of the way she started the day phase, and no nothing you have done or said has made me reconsider because by your and Seven's explanations...you're a damn good wolf.

That statement came from the middle of the day though, I had a stream of posts before that iirc

Makhaira wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:06 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:10 am

Makhaira wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:02 am enlighten me

An appeal to emotion is attempting to sway others by provoking an emotional reaction. Using a word that describes an emotional state is not an emotional appeal in itself. It could be used to make one, however. For example:

"It aggravated me when bessie ate my chocolate bar" vs "I am disgusted by the recent rise of dog- and cat-eating immigrants! Are you with me my fellow Americans!?"

I see AtE as a little broader than that atleast for in-game purposes/how I interpret it is meant in common mafia parlance

I see AtE as also encompassing a player stating they they experienced or are experiencing a particular emotional state in reaction to new information, an accusation, or out of game stimuli that is impacting their ability to play. I believe implicit to this kind of statement is a suggestion by the player that said emotional state they are experiencing is bona fide, which suggests they are coming from an "uninformed" PoV and are experience a genuine reaction of surprise, indignation, excitement, etc. The assumption made here is that a scum player would not genuinely experience such emotions because of their informed status and thus would have to fabricate an emotional reaction in order to emulate a town PoV. Here, you represented you had a genuine emotional reaction to something that naturally follows from a purported town PR claim PoV. This did not actually happen by your own admission and you fabricated having an emotional reaction to "new information" you would have obtained from your claimed town PoV KNOWING that falsifying this emotional reaction would strengthen the appeal of your claim for this very reason. Being willing to falsify perspective of town PoV even when town aligned is a faustian bargain in that future attempts to communicate such genuine "updating" will be poisoned by your admission that you have the capacity and will to fabricate such reactions for to bolster claim credibility

This is really a meta debate tho so I won't push it further, just wanted to clarify my view on this

Santygrass wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:35 pm And for JC meta insight appreciated as well. I do think that the 'solve' they are pushing is v/v so I could see the angle. At the same time I dont think me or Seven get yeeted today :wowee:

Makhaira wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:06 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:10 am

Makhaira wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:02 am enlighten me

An appeal to emotion is attempting to sway others by provoking an emotional reaction. Using a word that describes an emotional state is not an emotional appeal in itself. It could be used to make one, however. For example:

"It aggravated me when bessie ate my chocolate bar" vs "I am disgusted by the recent rise of dog- and cat-eating immigrants! Are you with me my fellow Americans!?"

I see AtE as a little broader than that atleast for in-game purposes/how I interpret it is meant in common mafia parlance

I see AtE as also encompassing a player stating they they experienced or are experiencing a particular emotional state in reaction to new information, an accusation, or out of game stimuli that is impacting their ability to play. I believe implicit to this kind of statement is a suggestion by the player that said emotional state they are experiencing is bona fide, which suggests they are coming from an "uninformed" PoV and are experience a genuine reaction of surprise, indignation, excitement, etc. The assumption made here is that a scum player would not genuinely experience such emotions because of their informed status and thus would have to fabricate an emotional reaction in order to emulate a town PoV. Here, you represented you had a genuine emotional reaction to something that naturally follows from a purported town PR claim PoV. This did not actually happen by your own admission and you fabricated having an emotional reaction to "new information" you would have obtained from your claimed town PoV KNOWING that falsifying this emotional reaction would strengthen the appeal of your claim for this very reason. Being willing to falsify perspective of town PoV even when town aligned is a faustian bargain in that future attempts to communicate such genuine "updating" will be poisoned by your admission that you have the capacity and will to fabricate such reactions for to bolster claim credibility

This is really a meta debate tho so I won't push it further, just wanted to clarify my view on this

Makhaira wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:30 pm @Seven do you legitimately believe it would be dishonorable to truthfully tell the other players that one was experiencing a serious life event that impacts their ability to be present at crucial game moments as scum, but that doing so as town is completely fine?

Relatedly, do you believe somi seeking replacement at this juncture of the game with no clear provided reason to be dishonorable? And if so does your position depend on somi's alignment?

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:51 pm

Makhaira wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:04 am

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 4:28 pm Wam and Seven's claims directly contradict each other. No way both can be telling the truth. I can verify Wam at least is telling the truth about his result on me. Based on this, Seven seemed to know that Wam had a result on him, and doesn't seem to be pushing back against Wam contradicting him, so I think the most likely conclusion and the most consistent with Seven's meta in particular is that Seven is lying Town.

I don't think that Wam is likely to be scum here, though I did seem him claim a clear on someone who was Town as mafia before (Stellaris, I think it was).

I don't care for bessie's reaction to this and will need to spend some time rereading her. If she is scum it has been a long while since she has snowed me so completely, but I suppose I can't rule it out.

How does town!Seven (who is also a VT in this world) know for sure that Wam is town that town!Wam has confirmation that Seven is in fact town at the point Seven made the linked post?

Wam said he softed the result here having Seven as top town based on "gut". Also here. He repeated he was softing it here. Seven claimed he knew Wam had a result on him here.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:33 pm

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:30 am Wam
Thea
Bessie
Moody
Madge
Fred
Seven
Santy

Interesting, thanks.



So I've been piecing together everyone's reads today. Reading down the column will give how that player feels about everyone else. Reading across the row will give how that player is being read. I don't have full reads from Fred or bessie yet since they seem to be playing chicken with their reads for some reason that I do not understand. Anyway. Red is strong scum, orange is scum lean, yellow town lean, green strong town.

I think it is very interesting that there's a couple players who have such wildly different reads on them. Fred probably being the most polarized player with a couple of strong scumreads and a couple strong townreads. Seven is similarly polarized.

JC and moody are being read as scum by basically everyone.

bessie, moody, and JC all have very similar scumreads. Thea, Wam, Seven, Santy, Madge all have fairy similar ones. What I've gathered from Fred tends to align with the latter group.

I think it is unlikely that this split perfectly divides Town and scum. There might be one bussing scum committed to going deep. Presumably Santy in that case.

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:41 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:36 pm Deadline is tomorrow though no?

Deadline is in a little over 11 hours.

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:59 pm

Makhaira wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:30 pm @Seven do you legitimately believe it would be dishonorable to truthfully tell the other players that one was experiencing a serious life event that impacts their ability to be present at crucial game moments as scum, but that doing so as town is completely fine?

Relatedly, do you believe somi seeking replacement at this juncture of the game with no clear provided reason to be dishonorable? And if so does your position depend on somi's alignment?

I wouldn’t consider anything mentioned here to be dishonorable. It *would* be dishonorable to use the major life event as AtE to avoid being elimmed at crunch time as scum.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 5:02 pm @THEA @SEVEN

Kind of disappointed yall didn't catch my trick in the wam quotes post. If I told you I intentionally manipulated the quote order in my post to make it look like they were posted in temporal order but they were in fact in reverse order, what do you think I was getting at about Wams play in that post progression and how it might inform us about his POV?