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Wam wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 1:26 pm

EGW wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:02 am

Wam wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 8:56 amOr your first content felt.townie and later pinged me and I forgot to remove the first entry....

You do this with Madge too. You have her as neutral and then you say she's scummy. Can you explain why she was neutral to you and then explain what felt scummy to you? Then do the same with me, tell me what town pinged you from my posts and then show where you got a scum ping and why.

First 5 posts from madge are normal day 1 madge.

This post pinged me. https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73056#p73056

Esp

madge wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2024 12:27 am
do mafia have daychat? it's probably in the rules which i did read ut didn't memorise.

Feels faked.

How about for George?

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 7:18 am I don't want to do want until he gets back to post. He's usually pretty easy to sort. Would you do Moody with me?

vote moody

I don't like this, feels a bit like scum probing the waters

EGW wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 8:31 am Vote: Gluelock

His entrance feels like he was already caught up and only posted when called out (reactive) rather than posting actively. Madge, vote with me.

Why did you call on madge specifically here?

Not sure what to make of wam's list, EGW is there twice but Seven isn't anywhere

EGW wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 8:26 am Scum that helped coach Bessie play a townie game as scum. I can understand the idea behind support scum but not sure what you mean by point scum. They also meant to kill me N1 but I got bodyguarded. (Thanks to JC) I understand Seven the most here most likely. I still think he's town. Him not pushing me at the very least shows that he either didn't truly believe I was scum early game, or if he does somehow (boo) then he'd wait to see how I play to truly develop his read on me. In the other game, he just instantly read me as town. (Yeah EGW you're town I get it, *votes Mak*) So, towntell for Seven for pumping the brakes.

I kinda feel the opposite, I'm rather weirded out by Seven dropping off the face of the planet all of a sudden.

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 2:09 pm The rules seem to be intentionally ambiguous, this was a valid question. If there's no night elim, I have a theory about the gamerule.

Sure, but madge doesn't cite the ambiguity, she apparently just decided not to check the rules again, which does feel a bit performative. Then again of all the people in here, madge is the one I could imagine just not bothering because y'all are lucky to even play with her

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:44 pm Why weren't you paying too much attention? If you're trying to solve shouldn't you be paying attention to the specific reads different slots have on each other? Or do you not care what others think much this early in the game because it doesn't affect you existentially and you already know everyone's alignment and derivatively who's reads are right and wrong already?

It was page two, it takes a bit for my mind to spin up to mafia-RPM

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:44 pm What faction benefits from having a smaller papertrail and lower average contribution per slot in any given game? Town or Scum? Said another way, which faction benefits the most from lurking?

Also, who is more likely to throw a game in endgame? A person who has been engaged and trying to contribute and solve all game, or someone who coasted by and did little to no thinking for themselves the whole game?

Yeah sure, which is why the basic mafia advice for noobs is not to lurk as scum so you don't look scummy and have more control over the game. We're in a game with fairly experienced players so I personally wouldn't expect anyone to try lurking but I will admit this to be wine.

Lurkers can be a liability in endgame sure, I'm not saying never eliminate low activity players, I'm just saying getting information early in the game is valuable so we should do our best to find someone actually suspicious today and not just roll the dice that one of the lurkers turns out to be scum. Those can be PoE-d later using information we get if we correctly identify the "point scum" as you called it and even if we miselim, the wagons and the discussion around that woudl have more information than "yeah, let's all elim the guy who hasn't said anything".

Vote: No Extension

Extensions are unfair—particularly publicly voted extensions—and in this case, unnecessary.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:44 pm Point scum = the "point man", i.e. the person who is leading the charge and playing the most active scum role. The powerwolf in the context of the game so to speak. Support scum = the mate who takes the back seat and plays around what the point man is doing.

I'd argue that seven was the point scum in that game and their play here is not incongruent. Their read on your slot here may be flipped but this is still seven trying to put their thumb on the scales early with some bravado. scum!seven used the same overconfident approach to get me yeeted that game, they thunderdomed me ffs!

No, still not thinking Seven is scum here. The thing is in Baldur's Gate mafia he was neutral to me from the beginning, and then suspicious. Here he seems townie from the get go. I said that I understand him most here, and I'm sticking to it. I've seen him play like this as town. Of course this will require for him to lay his cards out.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:44 pmhow did you get this from gluelock simply blockquoting one post from madge and simply voting madge? are you saying the slot is reacting to the prod or people generally calling out inactive slots? Or are you saying the slot is defensively reacting to something madge said in their post?

I'm saying the slot is reacting to my post, he didn't get prodded. So that would require for him to have been in thread. That's literally Gluelock caught slanking.

somitomi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 7:24 pm Seven isn't anywhere

This is why I asked you about the percentage of words you have been reading, as this is the 3rd-4th time you have made an error such as this.

somitomi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 7:24 pmWhy did you call on madge specifically here?

Since Gluelock is voting Madge and I know she'd vote Gluelock to self pres. I want her vote on him if she won't be around in deadline.

somitomi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 7:24 pmI kinda feel the opposite, I'm rather weirded out by Seven dropping off the face of the planet all of a sudden.

I'm not surprised to see Seven do that as town. He's done it before.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:52 pmYes, your reasoning for both is terrible and feels very forced. I think getting either player off of null is hard to justify at this stage without a very strong meta tell. The timing that you made this push immediately after I started asking for votes for moody is also interesting.

Ok then. Go into it for me. Why is the reasoning terrible? On timing, I was waiting for Wam to post content as he promised. The underlined feels pretty tacked on as a reason for you to suspect me.

Theallieza wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2024 8:01 pmThis post gives me a weird vibe. I think I'd put a slight scumlean on somi.

I'd like for you to talk about this now. In what way does your reason make Somi scum to you? Is this not an error like you have told me I have pushed for in the past (as my own mistake)? Can it come from town? Why or why not?

somitomi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 7:24 pm here?

Not sure what to make of wam's list, EGW is there twice but Seven isn't anywhere

Well seven wasn't anywhere other than at the bottom.with a vote...

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 7:04 pm

Wam wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 1:26 pm

EGW wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:02 am

You do this with Madge too. You have her as neutral and then you say she's scummy. Can you explain why she was neutral to you and then explain what felt scummy to you? Then do the same with me, tell me what town pinged you from my posts and then show where you got a scum ping and why.

First 5 posts from madge are normal day 1 madge.

This post pinged me. https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73056#p73056

Esp

madge wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2024 12:27 am
do mafia have daychat? it's probably in the rules which i did read ut didn't memorise.

Feels faked.

How about for George?

Liked

https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=72955#p72955

https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73052#p73052

Disliked
https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73053#p73053
https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73057#p73057
https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73086#p73086

Felt like scum feeling they should say things rather than trying to solve.

Hope I got the links right quotes were large!

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 12:50 pm The attempted bussing is blatant and, frankly, insulting. Please don't try to insert your reads into my opinions.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by bussing?

Wam wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 1:22 pmWhat happened to your solve?

There are (in all likelihood) 3 Dancer, I only have only identified 2. Fred has a greater than random chance to be Dancer, but only marginally. Further, upon review of this exchange:

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 11:28 am

Makhaira wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 3:47 am

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 12:33 amAlready posting too many words. Biggest offender is EGW, and he was mean to me.

Vote: EGW so I don't have to read so much.

ohboyherewego.png

atleast freddy posted tho. No wam, gluelock or jc is lame af

It's the immediate vote. NOTHING SINISTER.

Unvote: EGW.

moody7277 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 11:50 amGot another chuckle from Fred's latest. RVS is RVS, and I'm getting a good town read on him now.

It appears that moody's comment was in defense of EGW, not of Fred as I originally interpreted it. To clarify, defense isn't the optimal word choice—downplaying and de-escalating the read is more precise.

Wam wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 8:22 pm Liked

https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=72955#p72955

https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73052#p73052

Disliked
https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73053#p73053
https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73057#p73057
https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73086#p73086

Felt like scum feeling they should say things rather than trying to solve.

I am not certain how believable this is as those are questions intended to foster discussion and hold players accountable for their reads and statements, which is typical of EGW play. Do you generally tend to find his questions weird in other games?

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:44 pm@Seven how does this specific post impact your EGW read?
@Seven again, how does EGW early power grabbing here affect your read of the slot?

They do not.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:44 pmwhy wam over moody if you're so convinced moody is scum? do you believe scum!wam is likely commit such an unforced error as scum this early in the game under relatively low pressure?

Moody is going to be the D1 elimination. Due to the tendency of players to utilize all of the phase time, he is not going to be eliminated until the end of Day, and therefore it is not optimal for my vote to be on him at this time.

Some clarifications:

Dgames had always played with Day Chat by default so it was rarely mentioned in the ruleset. It is possible Adum made the game with Night Chat only, but I would imagine that would be something that was explicitly mentioned. @Madge what motivated you to ask about this?

@Mak, EGW clarified above, but to reaffirm, Glue did not receive a prod. He responded after EGW requested a prod, but before Adum delivered it.

@Madge, mountainous refers to games where everyone is vanilla. Is that what you meant?

@Fredino, there is always a Town Faction and a Mafia Faction. This game simply refers to the Town Faction as 'Humans' and the Mafia Faction as 'Dancers'. The mafia faction always has a night kill.

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 8:37 pm

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 12:50 pm The attempted bussing is blatant and, frankly, insulting. Please don't try to insert your reads into my opinions.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by bussing?

Whatever the term is for trying to push someone under the bus so they get voted out with minimal input

Been a really lazy holiday for me. Right off the top of my head I have Fred and Thea as non-elim, and based how much I agreed with one post by Thea that analyzed the 7vEGW, I should probably have 7 as non-elim as well.

Lot of talk about the contradictory bits in wam's reads list. Madge being all over the place is something I can understand; her and D1 not the best of friends, but having EGW both town and somewhat scummy is the huh? part to me, especially with a vague "the vibes tell me so" explanation.

Seven wrote:It appears that moody's comment was in defense of EGW, not of Fred as I originally interpreted it.

No, I was definitely talking about Fred in that comment. I don't have a firm opinion on EGW yet.

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:30 pmThe mafia faction always has a night kill.

Not always, there are some infection-type games.

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:16 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:30 pmThe mafia faction always has a night kill.

Not always, there are some infection-type games.

For your sake, they do.

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:16 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:30 pmThe mafia faction always has a night kill.

Not always, there are some infection-type games.

Cult is the worst. F**k cult.

moody7277 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:15 pmBeen a really lazy holiday for me. Right off the top of my head I have Fred and Thea as non-elim, and based how much I agreed with one post by Thea that analyzed the 7vEGW, I should probably have 7 as non-elim as well.

What do you mean by this?

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:15 pmWhatever the term is for trying to push someone under the bus so they get voted out with minimal input

Let's re-read what I said shall we.

EGW wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:49 am

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 2:58 am Imma be honest, I don't even know if I'll be awake for deadline. My sleep schedule has been drastically shifting this week after getting fired and trying to transition to a day shift position. I am on US Mountain Time btw.

At the very least proxy your vote to mine if you have no other idea.

I wasn't encouraging minimal input. I was trying to have a placeholder in place in case you didn't have the time to give input, which is why I said 'at the very least'.

Let's all remember. This game has no plurality. I was acting with that in mind, with two players I saw that said they wouldn't be around for deadline.

Never mind Moody, I now understand what you meant. You meant Seven.

I'm still waiting for Thealliza to respond to me.

Holiday bark!

Gluelock wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2024 4:38 pm Vote: Madge

Hi Gluelock! Can you explain your vote for Madge in a little more detail?

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 2:58 am Imma be honest, I don't even know if I'll be awake for deadline. My sleep schedule has been drastically shifting this week after getting fired and trying to transition to a day shift position. I am on US Mountain Time btw.

Sorry about your job Fred. I hope your job search is successful.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:16 am

somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 7:07 pm

Makhaira wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 3:47 am I dont think I've ever seen EGW make a post like this, wild

What is wild about it?

the fact that I honestly cant ever recall EGW giving such an abridged reads list with so little context so early in the game with this kind of delivery is wild. EGW usually isnt so willing to just give reads without explanation

Hmmm. I’m noting this for now but I don’t think I agree with your reasoning. Makhaira’s read of EGW feels very forced to me.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:16 am Im not sure if heury is actually tryin to contribute

Heury gets overwhelmed easily so I’m hoping for more content before Tuesday night when I will probably need to finalize my reads list and vote.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:19 am Seven posturing as very confident on the D1 solve and not actually pushing their picks is a bad look here tbh

Noting this because I might want to come back to it.

somitomi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:56 am

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2024 9:34 pm

somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 7:07 pm How would it influence your read if I told you I specifically did something non-conforming just for you, you, you?

So did you?

Also, starting from Adum's start-of-day post, roughly what percentage of the total words have you read from the posts up to this point?

Yes I did

Within a small margin of error all of them

1. I still don’t believe you. Your confirmation post was acceptable. If you were trying to poke me, I would expect something deliberate and totally in your face, like the opening line of Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy or something.
2. Of what percentage of the total words did you think about, not just read?

Wam wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 8:01 am Mak - town
EGW - town
Thea - Town

Somi - lean town
Bessie - lean town
Huery - lean town

Moody - neutral
Madge - neutral
JC - neutral, lack of content

Egw - lean scum, weird vibes but can't put my finger on what is making me suspicious.
Fred - lean scum, again not sure why but something is pinging me


Madge scummy , but always is day 1.
Glue - scummy one line vote having been quiet doesn't show desire to solve.

Don't like seven going day 1 solved and being quiet

vote seven

Happy with seven or Glue.

I don’t like your reads list, Wam. It feels like you pre made this list, then edited it as you skimmed the thread.

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 12:50 pm Pre-edit: Shit, just lost everything before the EGW quote. My rewrites are not up to the quality I had before. /pre-edit

I started writing my posts in Word years ago because of this. If you’re phone posting, just multi post. In mafia games, multi posting isn’t discouraged like it is in other parts of the forum. I generally don’t like multi posting because my brain gets overwhelmed when there is a high number of posts and not so much with long posts. However, I would much rather have lots of content than a low post count.

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:44 pm Also, who is more likely to throw a game in endgame? A person who has been engaged and trying to contribute and solve all game, or someone who coasted by and did little to no thinking for themselves the whole game?

Hahahaha I have chosen wrong so many times at endgame. I get what you’re saying but I just thought this was funny.

somitomi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 7:24 pm Not sure what to make of wam's list, EGW is there twice but Seven isn't anywhere

-1

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 7:26 pm Vote: No Extension

Extensions are unfair—particularly publicly voted extensions—and in this case, unnecessary.

This post pings me. From the opening post:

2. Up to 3 deadline extensions may be granted for up to 48 hours, first will require a simple majority of players, 2nd 2/3rds, then unanimous. Requests for deadline extensions must be done in thread as follows "vote: deadline extensions"

Requests for extensions are fair according to the game rules, and are to be made publicly by voting in-thread.

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:30 pm @Fredino, there is always a Town Faction and a Mafia Faction. This game simply refers to the Town Faction as 'Humans' and the Mafia Faction as 'Dancers'. The mafia faction always has a night kill.

I think we had some experimental games on xkcd that were all town or all scum. However, this isn’t one of them. Adum stated in the sign up thread that this was a non bastard game.

Fred, if a game is experimental or non-standard the mod is expected label the game as such, or label it as a bastard game. You need to work on your scumhunting not game mechanics. I'm pretty sure we have had this discussion before.

Ok Bessie is town.