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Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:49 pm**

Somi ISO , quoting stuff that picked my interest without elaborating what I think of them (for now)

Please also read them and form your own opinions please and ty

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

somitomi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 2:46 pm
Seven wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 2:21 am I didn't know Santy was in! I was looking forward to bessie's confirmation post-analysis; I had something fun lined up. I'm loving Thea's self-imposed movie quote restriction. I took the flavor to mean that town are the Hawk King's servants before they were his servants, and scum are the utopian rebels.
Filing this away for when you flip Hawk King

somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:45 am
Seven wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 1:47 am Honestly, I'm just trying to figure out what Fred's avatar (DW from Arther) means about his role/alignment. My off-the-cuff guess is that it means he is Bus Driver: https://youtu.be/yFZnNEriyRc?si=_ZJg1Vu0LhBxZou-
You too?
Well, look what it got us, he switched to... someone from Power Rangers apparently.
Santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:33 am No pfp change + scummy focus (trying to rolehunt rather than solve alignments)

As for thea is just vibes not vibing. But if I need to put some other words aparts from failing the simple answer to the are you town question, is that they feel particularly boxed/stiff when talking, and making post just to have some sort of 'presence' than I usually see is more wolf shaped
Seems perfectly normal to think about what Fred's avatar means after he said it's always some secret breadcrumb thing, but it's possible I'm biased because I had done that a bit. I agree with your assessment of Thea though, this is rather active lurky

somitomi wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 3:48 pm
moody7277 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 1:07 am The whole self-imposed post restriction is attention grabbing, which I would think is contra-indicated for scum. Gun to my head, I'd say it's Thea's positive reaction to bessie's reads list. Then again, +0.5 is the least possible town lean in my system.
It's also a good excuse to be kinda crypticly vague all the time

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 8:13 pm So Fred is claiming that he had not read his role yet before that confirmation post, but he had a profile picture that he says he usually uses as a breadcrumb to his role that he had changed prior to his first post. Confirmed by his post on regards to making sure it wasn't directly tied by the title to what his actual intent was...

Is that right?
My understanding is that the first avatar was actually breadcrumbing "didn't read, LOL" until he ended up reading his role PM and changed avatars according to that. Still somewhat confounding behavior and I'm inclined to believe Seven's reasoning for why Fred didn't stick to his guns about not reading the role PM.
Vote: Fred
I'm also inclined to vote the worst, not particularly feeling the case on wam and since he's prone to being miselimed on D1 I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt. I think we're kindred spirits in that we both do better in the latter parts of the game.

somitomi wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 9:19 pm
bessie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 2:59 am
somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:47 pm I mean, yeah, I know this is pizazz and everything but at that point I haven't seen anything to cast doubt on that loud result. As we now know, Seven was speficially trying to allude to the conflicting result he apparently has, but I didn't pick up on that. I'm not good with crumbs.
Then why didn’t you vote for Adum!?
Because I didn't want to be the idiot who accidentally quickhammers before everyone had a chance to chime in.
bessie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 2:59 am
somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:47 pmFinally, I was just about to ask you why the loud result is more likely to have been tampered with than yours.

Nonetheless, I do have the feeling Adum's reaction is more likely to come from town than scum, but I'm not at all certain if that makes you town as well.
Interesting! Please explain how you accept Adum as town, but not Seven for derailing Adum’s elimination!
When it comes to Seven I can't entirely silence the suspicious bastard in me wondering if he did this for the everlasting town-cred.
Makhaira wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 7:32 pm See moody thinking I'm a play here is crazy to me adum like you have to be kidding me like how can a townie think this
Why not vote moody then?

A glimpse into the enigmaticidiotic workings of the somi mind follows, please keep your hands inside the vehicle.

town core in no particular order
- Adum, Mak (tone as discussed already)
- Fred, Thea (I'd probably scumread Fred in isolation, but I don't think there's a way mafia!Thea would do something as audacious and risky as claiming masons D1)
high-probability town
- Seven (clearing Adum)
scares me
- Santy (super open posting that's hella townie to me, but from what I recall they did just about the same as my replacement, so I have all the paranoia)
PoE
- JC
- moody
- wam
- bessie
Yeah, look at me calling all these kettles black, but the PoE group didn't leave much of an impression on me so the differences are rather marginal. JC feels a little more townish than the rest but I can't justify this vague impression. I'll go back to reread these people a bit, but for the moment it seems like picking any would likely hit scum and we're one NK ahead so the order isn't critical.
...
Yes, I hear the little alarm bell saying some kind of nuke will go off N2 to completely turn me on my head.

somitomi wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 11:36 pm
JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 6:38 pm With Wam's claim in willing to hold off on eliminating him, though my first thought was role cop when he described his results. Also curious as to why his results were not loud like the other two joats
I'm pretty sure Wam is claiming to be one of the two jacks mentioned in the daystart post. See here for example
JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 7:17 pm With Wam claiming to be a 3rd Joat, that bumps him up from bottom of the list to where I have Mak so you and Bessie drop down which means we're looking at a scum team of Moody, Somi, and Santy/Bessie...

Somehow it seems too easy to establish that already, but this is based off of Seven and Wam being honest... which I feel they are.

Totally going to bite me in the rear later, I'm sure.
What is it about wam's claim that makes it read so town to you?

somitomi wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 9:56 pm
Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 9:51 pm
I'm a Role Cop, each night I can learn someone's role (but not their alignment). N1 I targeted Mak because I didn't catch his crumb
I knew you were role cop which is why I included it in the known/anticipated role list. I don’t believe you though on why you targeted Mak. What is his role?
Motivating Loudener, but also how did you know my role?

somitomi wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 10:01 pm
Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 9:59 pm Fascinating. Somi and bessie are both mafia. Somi crumbed bessie’s role before bessie crumbed it herself. Somi was setting up a safe claim to say that he role copped bessie.

Targeting Mak doesn’t make any sense since he said at end of D1 that he crumbed it.
Fascinating theory, where do you think I did that?

somitomi wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 10:15 pm
Seven wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 10:11 pm Bessie is Insane Publisher Cop. Adum was a scum read at the end of D1 so she investigated him. Somi came into today crumbing the role before bessie gave any indication of this. When I picked up on bessie's crumb later, I inferred Somi was role cop.
You know those moments when you use the wrong equation and your math is wrong but you somehow get the right result? This is one of those moments

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:07 pm**

Bessie progression on somi

Also please read since insights of people with more knowledge of bessie's meta are needed

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

bessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:51 am Woof

bessie – Dog.

Wam – Town.

somitomi – Town lean.

Santygrass – Town lean.

Theallieza – Town lean.

AdumbroDeus – town lean, however, I am a bit suspicious

JC_DADDY25 – neutral

the worst – Scum lean.

Makhaira – Scum lean.

Freddino18 – Scum lean.

moody7277 –Possible scum

Seven – Scummy.

(This post was edited to be more easy to read)

bessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 6:36 pm
somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:45 am You too?
Well, look what it got us, he switched to... someone from Power Rangers apparently.
Suspicious for the same reason it was suspicious when Seven did it.

bessie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 3:15 am Tentative reads list.

Woof
bessie
JC
Theallieza
The worst
Wam
Santygrass
moody
Makhaira
Adum
somitomi
Seven
Fred
Grr

Seven has been sick so I will update if he posts more content tonight.
Fred is my strongest scum read.

bessie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 7:54 am Some meta for those that don’t know me well. I HATE EARLY CLAIMS!

I’m having a hard time convincing myself to move my vote off someone who’s not actually contributing and doesn’t care enough about the game to vote.

My next scummiest reads are somi and Seven and I don’t think either is happening.

IT IS NOW D2

bessie wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 1:48 am
somitomi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:14 am Quick morning post, I have nothing I want to claim and no private chats.
Interesting opening post from somitomi. He responded to Seven so he’s reading the thread, and he is deliberately not commenting on any discussion thus far.

somitomi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 1:28 pm That is a lot of fingers for a puppy, aren't you a little paranoid?
No, just introverted, cocky, insane, and tired, I've had one hell of a day.

somitomi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 1:28 pm
Seven wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:33 pm I see. That was the last piece needed I believe. Wam, Moody, Santy are the scum team I believe.
Curious that your scumtean does not include the one confirmed non-town player
Curious that you accept Adum as confirmed non-town. Why haven’t you elaborated on this? Who do you think is scum with Adum.

bessie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 2:59 am
somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:47 pm
bessie wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 1:48 am Curious that you accept Adum as confirmed non-town. Why haven’t you elaborated on this? Who do you think is scum with Adum.
I mean, yeah, I know this is pizazz and everything but at that point I haven't seen anything to cast doubt on that loud result. As we now know, Seven was speficially trying to allude to the conflicting result he apparently has, but I didn't pick up on that. I'm not good with crumbs.
Then why didn’t you vote for Adum!?

somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:47 pm
Seven wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 1:26 am For the record, I don't think Adum is cleared. I just think that the results nullify each other until we have more information. They should be ignored and we should read him by his play. If it's true that he was the night kill target, that would be a point in his favor, and clearing if we are dealing with one scum team.

I could see godfather!Adum having the same reaction to the results today if he was targeted by an insane cop.
Finally, I was just about to ask you why the loud result is more likely to have been tampered with than yours.

Nonetheless, I do have the feeling Adum's reaction is more likely to come from town than scum, but I'm not at all certain if that makes you town as well.
Interesting! Please explain how you accept Adum as town, but not Seven for derailing Adum’s elimination!

bessie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 11:30 pm
somitomi wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 9:19 pm When it comes to Seven I can't entirely silence the suspicious bastard in me wondering if he did this for the everlasting town-cred.
Interesting! You suspect scum!Seven derail an almost guaranteed yeet of the strongest and towniest player in the game just for town cred! Even though if Adum is not eliminated, Adum’s alignment is not confirmed so the town cred Seven is trying for may or may not happen! I think your reasoning is scummy!

somitomi wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 9:19 pm - Fred, Thea (I'd probably scumread Fred in isolation, but I don't think there's a way mafia!Thea would do something as audacious and risky as claiming masons D1)
Think creatively!

Woof
the worst
bessie
Adum
Seven
JC
Makhaira
Moody
Santygrass
Thea
Fred
somitomi
Wam
Grr

Vote: Wam

bessie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:20 am
Wam wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 1:37 pm Questions for bessie

1) do you still feel.we.shpuld have elimed Fred day 1?
2) given the late claim and end of day bits who should we have swung too if you controlled all the votes?
1. Yes. If we eliminated Fred, the worst might still be alive. We wouldn’t know the worst’s alignment but he would be generating reads and content and asking questions. And, if Fred flipped town mason, Thea would be confirmed town and we could trust her reads, and not waste any investigations on either of them. If Fred didn’t flip town mason, we would have an easy yeet today.
2. I would have reluctantly swung to somitomi. Reason for not going to Seven, per xkcd tradition he was sick so he gets a little of an allowance for his lack of Zen level D1 content. Reason for “reluctant” modifier, I have a history of tunneling somi into the ground on D1 regardless of either of our alignments. See here: https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=47589#p47589
I am consciously trying to get away from this because I recognize that I do it, so I have been giving him a D1 pass even if I find him scummy. https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=47858#p47858
I think it was another game that I was almost voted off on D1 because I didn’t want to vote somi on D1. But I’m done looking through old games because I’ve been working on this post for almost an hour and I’m on page 36 of 43.

Quicker readthrough.

somitomi wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 4:34 pm
bessie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 11:30 pm Interesting! You suspect scum!Seven derail an almost guaranteed yeet of the strongest and towniest player in the game just for town cred! Even though if Adum is not eliminated, Adum’s alignment is not confirmed so the town cred Seven is trying for may or may not happen! I think your reasoning is scummy
Do keep in mind that this is a fringe theory rattling in my mind that I myself mostly disregarded in the same post, but yeah, Adum will in all likelyhood be night killed sometime before the game is over, at which point this gambit could pay off big time.
Noting this for now. I will think about it, but my initial reaction doesn’t change my original read.

Did bessie have a meta of not bussing? I have that recollection from past game, but others chiming in would be appreciated here to see if its clearing. I dont think bessie *voted* somi , but the way they changed the initial townlean to then adamantly sus somi since D1 seems rather unpairing, specially if their meta is that they dont like to bus

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:09 pm**

Im going to rest for a bit and wait for some insights regarding bessie. Plan to do Wam progression on somi next

Be back later and dont ignore the spoilers please

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 4:12 pm**

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:18 pm I guess the JC kill had to be mafia. Possible reasons are hard dangerous PR read, redirected, or just they felt they didn't have better targets.

That last one weirds me, they obviously have a reason not to go after me, but why not seven or the claimed masons? Why not the claimed cop? Why not Santy?

Maybe they have Indy reads and are trying to dodge BP?

JC was PoE scum from most players. They are a terrible NK target for mafia.

I think there is a serial killer in the game who targeted JC, under the assumption that if the kill were observed, they could plausibly explain it was from a Town Vig.

Possibly mafia and SK are alternate even/odd kills, or possibly mafia has just had terrible luck and had both of their kills blocked.

This also gives mafia a plausible reason to have a bunch of townie powers available to them.

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 4:22 pm**

Santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:07 pm Bessie progression on somi

Also please read since insights of people with more knowledge of bessie's meta are needed

Spoiler (Show/Hide)
bessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:51 am Woof

bessie – Dog.

Wam – Town.

somitomi – Town lean.

Santygrass – Town lean.

Theallieza – Town lean.

AdumbroDeus – town lean, however, I am a bit suspicious

JC_DADDY25 – neutral

the worst – Scum lean.

Makhaira – Scum lean.

Freddino18 – Scum lean.

moody7277 –Possible scum

Seven – Scummy.

(This post was edited to be more easy to read)

bessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 6:36 pm
somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:45 am You too?
Well, look what it got us, he switched to... someone from Power Rangers apparently.
Suspicious for the same reason it was suspicious when Seven did it.

bessie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 3:15 am Tentative reads list.

Woof
bessie
JC
Theallieza
The worst
Wam
Santygrass
moody
Makhaira
Adum
somitomi
Seven
Fred
Grr

Seven has been sick so I will update if he posts more content tonight.
Fred is my strongest scum read.

bessie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 7:54 am Some meta for those that don’t know me well. I HATE EARLY CLAIMS!

I’m having a hard time convincing myself to move my vote off someone who’s not actually contributing and doesn’t care enough about the game to vote.

My next scummiest reads are somi and Seven and I don’t think either is happening.

IT IS NOW D2

bessie wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 1:48 am
somitomi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:14 am Quick morning post, I have nothing I want to claim and no private chats.
Interesting opening post from somitomi. He responded to Seven so he’s reading the thread, and he is deliberately not commenting on any discussion thus far.

somitomi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 1:28 pm That is a lot of fingers for a puppy, aren't you a little paranoid?
No, just introverted, cocky, insane, and tired, I've had one hell of a day.

somitomi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 1:28 pm
Curious that your scumtean does not include the one confirmed non-town player
Curious that you accept Adum as confirmed non-town. Why haven’t you elaborated on this? Who do you think is scum with Adum.

bessie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 2:59 am
somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:47 pm
I mean, yeah, I know this is pizazz and everything but at that point I haven't seen anything to cast doubt on that loud result. As we now know, Seven was speficially trying to allude to the conflicting result he apparently has, but I didn't pick up on that. I'm not good with crumbs.
Then why didn’t you vote for Adum!?

somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:47 pm Finally, I was just about to ask you why the loud result is more likely to have been tampered with than yours.

Nonetheless, I do have the feeling Adum's reaction is more likely to come from town than scum, but I'm not at all certain if that makes you town as well.
Interesting! Please explain how you accept Adum as town, but not Seven for derailing Adum’s elimination!

bessie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 11:30 pm
somitomi wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 9:19 pm When it comes to Seven I can't entirely silence the suspicious bastard in me wondering if he did this for the everlasting town-cred.
Interesting! You suspect scum!Seven derail an almost guaranteed yeet of the strongest and towniest player in the game just for town cred! Even though if Adum is not eliminated, Adum’s alignment is not confirmed so the town cred Seven is trying for may or may not happen! I think your reasoning is scummy!

somitomi wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 9:19 pm - Fred, Thea (I'd probably scumread Fred in isolation, but I don't think there's a way mafia!Thea would do something as audacious and risky as claiming masons D1)
Think creatively!

Woof
the worst
bessie
Adum
Seven
JC
Makhaira
Moody
Santygrass
Thea
Fred
somitomi
Wam
Grr

Vote: Wam

bessie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:20 am
Wam wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 1:37 pm Questions for bessie

1) do you still feel.we.shpuld have elimed Fred day 1?
2) given the late claim and end of day bits who should we have swung too if you controlled all the votes?
1. Yes. If we eliminated Fred, the worst might still be alive. We wouldn’t know the worst’s alignment but he would be generating reads and content and asking questions. And, if Fred flipped town mason, Thea would be confirmed town and we could trust her reads, and not waste any investigations on either of them. If Fred didn’t flip town mason, we would have an easy yeet today.
2. I would have reluctantly swung to somitomi. Reason for not going to Seven, per xkcd tradition he was sick so he gets a little of an allowance for his lack of Zen level D1 content. Reason for “reluctant” modifier, I have a history of tunneling somi into the ground on D1 regardless of either of our alignments. See here: https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=47589#p47589
I am consciously trying to get away from this because I recognize that I do it, so I have been giving him a D1 pass even if I find him scummy. https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=47858#p47858
I think it was another game that I was almost voted off on D1 because I didn’t want to vote somi on D1. But I’m done looking through old games because I’ve been working on this post for almost an hour and I’m on page 36 of 43.

Quicker readthrough.

somitomi wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 4:34 pm
Do keep in mind that this is a fringe theory rattling in my mind that I myself mostly disregarded in the same post, but yeah, Adum will in all likelyhood be night killed sometime before the game is over, at which point this gambit could pay off big time.
Noting this for now. I will think about it, but my initial reaction doesn’t change my original read.

Did bessie have a meta of not bussing? I have that recollection from past game, but others chiming in would be appreciated here to see if its clearing. I dont think bessie *voted* somi , but the way they changed the initial townlean to then adamantly sus somi since D1 seems rather unpairing, specially if their meta is that they dont like to bus

I don't think I have ever seen bessie vote for a partner before. She might give a partner a scumlean if she feels it is warranted but will rarely actively push a partner.

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 4:47 pm**

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 4:12 pm
AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:18 pm I guess the JC kill had to be mafia. Possible reasons are hard dangerous PR read, redirected, or just they felt they didn't have better targets.

That last one weirds me, they obviously have a reason not to go after me, but why not seven or the claimed masons? Why not the claimed cop? Why not Santy?

Maybe they have Indy reads and are trying to dodge BP?
What do you think of the potential reasons I provided?
JC was PoE scum from most players. They are a terrible NK target for mafia.

I think there is a serial killer in the game who targeted JC, under the assumption that if the kill were observed, they could plausibly explain it was from a Town Vig.

Possibly mafia and SK are alternate even/odd kills, or possibly mafia has just had terrible luck and had both of their kills blocked.

This also gives mafia a plausible reason to have a bunch of townie powers available to them.

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 4:51 pm**

Santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:00 pm
AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:43 pm
Santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:32 pm And Mak was copped by somi, so strongly town as well.
As explained earlier, we don't actually know if Somi targeted Mak, if Mak was his partner Somi could've gotten the role directly from Mak and lied about their target.
That is true! Just more of a complex scum play and rather risky. For example if somi does that and mak was watched or them tracked, then not only they are caught as lying scum, it also heavily implies Mak as scum, so its not worth lying and I think its unlikely for scum to try to pull off. Specially on short notice (the claim of somi was asked near EoD)

Literally this. If I didn't want somi elim'd last phase, I could have made that happen. There was zero need for somi to last minute claim a "clear" on me knowing he would flip scum to try to give me endgame equity. Its a ridiculous all in strategy that the game state in no way warranted. If somi was my mate, Wam would have been elim'd yesterday, full stop.

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:37 pm My only concern with Mak is his posting after the deadline. It seems like something scum!mak would do and that town!mak would not do.

I genuinely feel bad about this. I was rushing to phonepost a final post before deadline, I had just gotten out of a meeting and was like trying to type everything up as fast as possible to get something up before deadline and simply failed. I wasn't looking at the time, just was typing a reply in the quick reply box and hit send as soon as I was done. That was reckless and selfish and I deserved admonishment from the mods and frankly I was expecting to be saddled with a mod vote or some similar sanction this phase because yeah my post wasn't submitted until 5 min after deadline which is a bit egregious. Id ask that people look at that as NAI or honestly just disregard the post entirely. If mods want to delete it I would not object

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 4:56 pm**

Vote: Bessie

I really think it's just bessie here for somi's mate. Long and the short of it is I am firmly convinced she is scum based on play and I think her role is literally designed to create disinformation for the scum team. Her being informed of her status night to night is extremely scum coded to me. This info directly assists the scum cop with knowing how to get perfect fake results on slots with built on excuses for why the results aren't reliable. I think bessie was told about her cycling reliability on purpose to help the scum team target certain slots when paranoid, certain slots when insane, certain slots when naive, etc. but that the mods didn't intend for her to actually claim having that knowledge, and rather we're hoping or expecting that she would simply fake claim a "publishing cop" that "doesn't know" her actual reliability for plausible deniability for the eventually scenario when a slot flips differently from what her investigations are returning

Im going to do a more granular analysis of night action stuff later this week when I have more time but yeah really think bessie is the only play here

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 4:59 pm**

Wow I’m tired. My reply ended up inside the quote block.

@Thea: What do you think of the potential reasons I provided?

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 5:04 pm**

somitomi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 1:28 pmaren't you a little paranoid?

Vote: bessie

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 5:25 pm**

Scum has night chat only. Bessie doesn’t know the order of her sanities. She’s informed at the start of day what it was the previous night. Somi was communicating with her in that feeling paranoid post.

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 5:35 pm**

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:25 pm
AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:18 pm I guess the JC kill had to be mafia. Possible reasons are hard dangerous PR read, redirected, or just they felt they didn't have better targets.

That last one weirds me, they obviously have a reason not to go after me, but why not seven or the claimed masons? Why not the claimed cop? Why not Santy?

Maybe they have Indy reads and are trying to dodge BP?
I think it is one of the following:

1. They were avoiding a Doc protect. Wam, JC (presumably), and I all have a Doc. There’s lots of protective power this game. Additionally I informed Wam not to target me, bessie, or Mak because I had a trap in place. So scum may have been inclined to avoid triggering said trap.

Even ignoring you/bessie/Mak, I still think there were much better targets to choose. It's such a marginal kill choice because I think JC was at least plausibly going to be misyeet bait (I had cased him/somi overnight as a possibility).

2. That JC was JOAT was deducible from scum!moody’s point of view.
3. Scum were aiming for the traffic analyst and had a 50:50 shot between moody and JC. They are more afraid of TA than cop because they have a Godfather.

Possible, but again, IMHO choosing between two players who, from their point of view are both likely misyeets seems like a very poor strategic choice.

JC kill makes a lot more sense coming from a Town kill, or, barring that, a 3rd party kill.

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 5:36 pm**

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 5:25 pm Scum has night chat only. Bessie doesn’t know the order of her sanities. She’s informed at the start of day what it was the previous night. Somi was communicating with her in that feeling paranoid post.

I'd be surprised if scum has night chat only while we have both day and night chat. Like it's possible but seems needlessly crippling.

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 5:53 pm**

Seven wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:53 pm
AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:51 pm
Seven wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:42 pm What results are you referring to as being publishing voyeur? I think it was just JC’s actions.
I forgot Santy's targetting was loud.

But somebody published Mak's targeting, their targeting wasn't loud last game day. However, it's distinct from last game day's announcement.
That was Fred.

Close. I published all players targeting Wam, just happened to only be Mak

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 6:01 pm**

From what I've seen, bessie tends to tunnel one person at a time. Having seen none of that this game, I highly suspect her as a scum candidate.

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 6:33 pm**

So this is roughly where I'm at:

Unlikely partners for Somi:
Fred: Mason
Seven: Doesn't bus, pushed somi hard EoD2
Adum: Likely N1 kill target
Wam: Wouldn't target Adum if he was going to be NKed. *
bessie: Wouldn't target Adum if he was going to be NKed
Mak: I think it's unlikely somi claims his partner's role. Pushed somi over Wam (though Mak does bus).*

[*]Theres a weird interaction possible where Somi cops bessie's role, and Wam claims Watcher of publicly known information + bessie role. But this would imply scum is exactly Wam/Somi/Mak since somi claimed he targeted Mak and corrected IDed his role. I think unless scum is exactly Somi/Wam/Mak, both Mak and Wam are probably clear.

Leaves Santy and moody. Santy pushed hard against somi wagon. Moody parked his vote on Wam and never moved it.

Now moody couldn't have carried the NK. Santy could have only if he was a Ninja.

I am leaning toward a situation where we only have two mafia, somi and moody, and one serial killer, probably Adum.

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:05 pm**

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 6:33 pm So this is roughly where I'm at:

Unlikely partners for Somi:
Fred: Mason
Seven: Doesn't bus, pushed somi hard EoD2
Adum: Likely N1 kill target
Wam: Wouldn't target Adum if he was going to be NKed. *
bessie: Wouldn't target Adum if he was going to be NKed
Mak: I think it's unlikely somi claims his partner's role. Pushed somi over Wam (though Mak does bus).*

[*]Theres a weird interaction possible where Somi cops bessie's role, and Wam claims Watcher of publicly known information + bessie role. But this would imply scum is exactly Wam/Somi/Mak since somi claimed he targeted Mak and corrected IDed his role. I think unless scum is exactly Somi/Wam/Mak, both Mak and Wam are probably clear.

Leaves Santy and moody. Santy pushed hard against somi wagon. Moody parked his vote on Wam and never moved it.

Now moody couldn't have carried the NK. Santy could have only if he was a Ninja.

I am leaning toward a situation where we only have two mafia, somi and moody, and one serial killer, probably Adum.

You're trying to stick a square peg in a round hole here. The idea that there's more than one kill makes no sense given the kills we've gotten and alternating kills is a last gasp to explain some true weirdness, which mafia targeting a suboptimal kill because they think the others won't work isn't.

Also, the idea of me being the most likely SK is just strange. If I was setting up a kill I was claiming as POE, why wouldn't I claim it? Why wouldn't I kill Wam? What happened to my N1 kill? Why did both Bessie and Seven's investigations give the expected return for town? Why did I react the way I did on seeing Bessie's results D2? Why did I claim to be almost positive I was the N2 kill target?

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:09 pm**

*ebwop: n1 target, not n2

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:10 pm**

Makhaira wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 4:56 pm

Again, why did you motivate Wam?

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:11 pm**

@Seven: question, would your parrot copy factional abilities?

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:17 pm**

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:05 pm Also, the idea of me being the most likely SK is just strange. If I was setting up a kill I was claiming as POE, why wouldn't I claim it? Why wouldn't I kill Wam? What happened to my N1 kill? Why did both Bessie and Seven's investigations give the expected return for town? Why did I react the way I did on seeing Bessie's results D2? Why did I claim to be almost positive I was the N2 kill target?

-I don't think SK!you would want to claim your kill. But in the event that you were investigated, you would have cover for it.
-You may have thought Wam was actually mafia and didn't want to risk eliminating their faction after one player was already killed
-Possibly you couldn't target each night. Possibly the kill was blocked in some other fashion that has not been claimed. Possibly you intentionally withheld because you didn't want to tip Town off to the fact that there are multiple killing factions. Possibly your protective abilities don't work in conjunction with your killing power. Sabrar and Madge have had a lot of creative serial killer roles over the years. IIRC, there was one that was immune to all night actions, but if it were ever targeted by 3 at once it died instantly, for example.
-Godfather would produce these results.
-You were expecting that you should show as Town to investigations and felt cheated that your power didn't behave the way you thought it did.
-Likely you had a one-shot bulletproof power and you are alerted when it goes away.

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:20 pm**

Given the power Town has in this game, I expect that if there is a serial killer, they are probably stocked with a strong suite of defensive abilities.

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:22 pm**

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:17 pm -You may have thought Wam was actually mafia and didn't want to risk eliminating their faction after one player was already killed

Or you thought that Town would be suspicious of a kill targeting Wam when he was the counterwagon to scum, I suppose.

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:23 pm**

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 6:33 pm [*]Theres a weird interaction possible where Somi cops bessie's role, and Wam claims Watcher of publicly known information + bessie role. But this would imply scum is exactly Wam/Somi/Mak since somi claimed he targeted Mak and corrected IDed his role. I think unless scum is exactly Somi/Wam/Mak, both Mak and Wam are probably clear.

This is a bad point. 1. Wam's role watcher is missing part of Bessie's rolename, 2. The only element of Bessie's role that was included in the result but not public at this point is "publishing", which is just the actual standard modifier for "posted in the thread by mod". As a result it's also weird that it didn't detect Seven's "loud" but did detect Bessie's "publishing".

Now moody couldn't have carried the NK. Santy could have only if he was a Ninja.

Are you suggesting Santy's odd night power is ninja?

Posted: **Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:33 pm**

Theallieza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 5:36 pm
Seven wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 5:25 pm Scum has night chat only. Bessie doesn’t know the order of her sanities. She’s informed at the start of day what it was the previous night. Somi was communicating with her in that feeling paranoid post.
I'd be surprised if scum has night chat only while we have both day and night chat. Like it's possible but seems needlessly crippling.

Regardless, somi saying the paranoid thing is too coincidental for me to let it pass.

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