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Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:49 pm
by Wam
That's a very good question I haven't asked. I have been assuming I stay town and win with Town but I don't know. And it's too late. We will find out one way or another!

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:54 pm
by boomfrog
phillip1882 wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 12:59 pm hey guys. newbie joining in place of ahippo.
i'm not really sure what more to post, but will try to comment every day.
Welcome to the jungle!

I'm sure this ridiculous thread has got you totally overwhelmed. The game day is going to end soon, so the main thing you need to decide on is your night action. hippo claimed you were a 2-shot motivator and already motivated Sabrar N1. moody has been "treestumped" which means he "eliminated" but still get's to post. That means he's revealed as 100% confirmed town but can't do anything but talk. So good news! for targeting your action you can just follow his advice. I recommend moody gives a top 4 town list of people he recommends you target and you choose randomly between those. That will make your target unknown enough that scum can't confidently interfere but gives you good odds of targeting town.

You could choose to hold onto your 2nd use of the power but it takes effect 1 Day later so it's unlikely to be very useful if you don't use it toNight.

@moody could you ping phillip with such a list before the end of the game day?

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:57 pm
by somitomi
Replies to stuff I read at sort-of random
Wam wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 1:48 pm Right well at this point I might as well fullclaim and lay all my cards on the table. So on odd days I am an elimmer for my brother (who I now know is sant) as I have accepted his fate and want to end his suffering. On the even days I'm town as im still working with and trying to save my brother. As per the flavour I have " I orignally try to protect my brother but eventually kill them when they become a dragon". So to align with that I have three powers. My brother/Sant can't be nkd, whilst I'm.in the game. On odd nights I can check a player to see if they are my brother i checked hippo N1 they weren't. On even nights I'm a traffic analyst. PS Plan for tonight was to check madge.
This was probably answered, but "elimmer" means the role that was called "lyncher" in the olden days, i.e. someone who wins if a specific player gets eliminated by vote?
Wam wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 2:05 pm Bubbles/somi
The end of day stuff from bubbles screamed town. Somi is coasting a bit on this.
That's absolutely inaccurate, I am fully freewheeling
Bop wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 7:01 am
to conserve screen space
FACT:

In tales of Zestiria, we follow a hero Shepard in their fight against an evil Lord of Calamity.

In tales of Berseria, we follow a hero Lord of Calamity in their fight against evil Shepards.

THEORY:
I think this is the crux of the use of this flavor, especially with flavor cop abilities in the game. Look at the flavor for the initial day one, when the game was soley discussing Zestiria:
AdumbroDeus wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 12:05 pm In a world where humans who become too emotional, can lose control and turn into demons through only a moment's weakness, war is smoldering on the horizon. People are starving. The land itself is even corrupted in many places.

Tales speak of a Lord of Calamity, one who seeks to destroy all life by making all humanity fall to the corruption of malevolence, and by their corruption turn all Seraphs as well. The Lord seeks to fan the flames of conflict for this purpose, depending on humanity to let itself fall when tested.

But one has arisen to stop this, a Shepherd for humanity and Seraphs alike with the power to purify Hellions and challenge the Lord of Calamity.

The inherent flavor is a Lord making humanity fall to malevolence, and a Shepherd helping us overcome. This makes sense to me as clear alignment, which is why some players assumed. I believe Zesteria players who are aligned with a Shepherd are likely town, and a Lord are likely scum.

Likewise, as you can learn in the synopsis, Berseria follows the hero Lord of Calamity and Therieon, Velvet. She fights against the Abbey and their Shepherds(top exorcists according to the wiki) evil plans. This also would make sense to me as generally alignment indicative within their own game. I believe Berseria works the opposite way, and Moody's claim checks out with my own. I believe Heroic (town) characters from Berseria are the ones aligned with a Lord of Calamity, and evil ones would align with a Shepherd, that game's villains.

So far, only three claims don't fit that main pattern.

Madge is from two games. There are some characters who live an extremely long time, and as her later game is Zestiria I would see aligned with a Shepherd as likely town. But it is one of the non standard ones.

Santy claims to be from Berseria, but aligned with BOTH a Lord of Calamity (heroic in Berseria) and Shepherd (evil in Berseria). This could be scum, but also would make sense an an independent with my theory.

Wam claims to be from Zestiria, but aligned with a Lord of Calamity (evil in Zestiria). This seems most likely to be scum to me.

Madge's claim of being a miller from the get makes me trust her, and being from both games mean with research we could probably guess her role.
But I cannot find a Zestiria character who makes sense to be aligned with a Lord of Calamity who isn't evil, and I cannot find a Berseria character who makes sense as aligned with both (or, to be honest, MOODY's character would make sense as she was trained in the abbey. However, Moody has confirmed he just was aligned with a lord.)

I for sure want a character claim from Wam, bc none of my research pulls up a character matching the flavor criteria who makes sense as town. I think Wam claimed assuming there was no harm in listing game/alignment not catching it could be a tell, but if Wam can claim a character that disproves me, who both makes sense to be aligned with a Lord but also that is heroic within the game of Zestiria, we can go from there.

I'd also want a character claim from Santygrass as well. Bearing in mind that we could have a multiball or sk situation, this would still fit within my "I can't figure out why I'm reading them both scummily" if they were scum as well. Being aligned with both a lord and shepherd, I'd believe independent is likely-but that doesn't rule out sk.
Oh wow, that's a heaps cool idea. Also, I greatly appreciate the detailed explanation because I'm still pretty flavour blind.
Santygrass wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 2:18 pm I'll give you an star for effort, and deeply apologize if you are truthful.

But if you are truthful, you are claiming something that is not against town at all, so like the lying and need to blend in shouldnt be there. Like yeah during one type of phase you want to elim a town but its still workable ? Its pretty busted for town even if it were true because if you decide to openly work with town (optimal) its like an insta clear *that cant be killed until you die*. And If I add my own role into it its too much.

Also there is the fact that acvoding to flavor, Edna wants to kill me when I fully lost it and Im a dragon, and thats something the whole gang of protags do together so doesnt make sense to be a indy condition idk .

So yeah I dont really believe much in it
Can you say what part of your role makes this "too much"? Or did you do already?

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:00 pm
by boomfrog
I'd normally hold this back to talk about D3 since I think wam is the right elem toDay, but I want Santy's input on this and to give him more to work with. I think Heury has accidentally confessed to being scum. He didn't claim a game and as we can see from the sample role PM the Tales of Zestiria characters don't get an indicator about game. So neglecting to specify a game means he's from Zestiria.

Aligned with a Lord of Calamity and from Zestiria is another outlier. And he's trying to hide it.

Unvote Sabrar
Vote Heury


For the record I feel like wam is telling the truth, but also, like could easily be lying.
Wam wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 1:48 pm my calamity/shepard alignment depends on the day and being flavour blind I just tried to fit in and failed
Which days are you which alignment?

Vote Heury with me.

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:00 pm
by somitomi
@Boom: thanks for the summary, man

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:02 pm
by boomfrog
somitomi wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:57 pm This was probably answered, but "elimmer" means the role that was called "lyncher" in the olden days, i.e. someone who wins if a specific player gets eliminated by vote?
Yes

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:02 pm
by boomfrog
somitomi wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:00 pm @Boom: thanks for the summary, man
I just spend like 4 hours catching up on this nonsense. I'm glad I could help.

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:02 pm
by somitomi
Also sorry everyone, I thought I'd have some time this evening but then a uni friend called in the afternoon asking if I wanted to meet up and it's not often we get to do that since he moved out of the city

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:19 pm
by boomfrog
Also, btw, I think we are multiball which is why all the "sincere scumhunting" tells are making everyone seem so townie.

@Santy, Here's my reads to help you with your final great work.

Very likely town
ahippo / Phillip
TehBubblez Somitomi - I know you weren't convinced but I'm very confident about my read that scum!bubblez doesn't make the specific claim that Mak will be 0 for 4 after the yeet. If bubblez had flipped scum or indy that would have completely invalidated bubblez point they were making and they were trying to make a point.
Laserguy / Santygrass - Scum if and only if he's one of the top 3 scum players I've ever met. I resonate so hard with almost all of his reads (except bubblez) and the mech result of wam's confirmation makes it hard to not be town. The only reason you aren't high is I don't know you, and you clearly are a very good player, so it's possible still. But I'm willing to lose to scum!santy at this point. Only goes down if something wild is revealed about the wam situation.
Bop - We three are all on the same wave length way too often.
Sabrar - I still need to talk through why he was so against my claim plan and understand why he didn't *get it*, but everything else is very very townie. He's trying really hard to solve and the "my bottom 4 is 11" post is way too real. The EGW vote was sincere.
EGW - The absolutely vigor is so townie, and it's very hard for EGW to keep this level of energy up as town. And I think the targeting choice was a townie motivated move, and the claim is real. Lowest of my hard town reads because being persistently and aggressively wrong is a great strategy as scum. This is how EGW *should* play as scum. I'm just not sure if he can pull it off as scum or not.

Town lean
1. Mak - Really like the hard defense of ahippo D1, feels townie.

Possible scum
Madge - I don't trust the miller claim. @Bop please take note here as well. She claimed late enough that she was confident there were no other millers who might claim, and she likes mechanics, that includes going for an early mechanical clear on herself. Only scum if it's multiball because she is sincerely trying to scum hunt.
4. Wam - I kinda beleive him, but not flipping him is a risk.
12. JC - Just no content and PoE makes him scum. Yeah, he's got some decent takes, but he's avoiding leaving a paper trail.
13. heuristically_alone - case stated in previous post.

Maybe madge is SK?

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:20 pm
by boomfrog
somitomi wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:02 pm Also sorry everyone, I thought I'd have some time this evening but then a uni friend called in the afternoon asking if I wanted to meet up and it's not often we get to do that since he moved out of the city
Go have fun. Leave your vote on wam or Heury.

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:25 pm
by somitomi
boomfrog wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:20 pm Go have fun. Leave your vote on wam or Heury.
Fun has been had already, it's sleeptime now, so I'm going to sheep Bop. Also, I've yet to see anyone explain how or why Heury supposedly getting a "no comment" on fake claims makes sense if they're not town, so I do not believe in that at all

Vote: Wam

If I'm not mistaken, that's E-1, tread with caution

Good luck

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:29 pm
by Santygrass
Unvote: Wam

Dont want a hammer to happen when I still havent made my legacy, will get to it later

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:33 pm
by madge
okay so Boomfrog is being weirdly unhinged. I now see what people saw in him. I don't really have words for it either.

I slept in and I'm going to have a busy day at work. I think Wam is today for sure so I'm not going to feel the need to be around to change my vote. I probably will visit the thread at work at least once but don't count on it.

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:49 pm
by boomfrog
madge wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:33 pm okay so Boomfrog is being weirdly unhinged. I now see what people saw in him. I don't really have words for it either.

I slept in and I'm going to have a busy day at work. I think Wam is today for sure so I'm not going to feel the need to be around to change my vote. I probably will visit the thread at work at least once but don't count on it.
Which part is unhinged?

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:51 pm
by EGW
This feels like the usual Boomfrog I have seen in the past. Tone wise I don't feel like it's Madge though. Boom I will respond to you soon.

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:56 pm
by boomfrog
Wam wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:45 pm
boomfrog wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:42 pm
Wam wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:39 pm Why an I not asleep.

You have caught up but didn't realise my claim?
If it was an odd day you would still be getting yeeted. What would actually be different?
I could make an argument for a santy yeet and still be playing to wincon.
Wait, but if you are yeeted on an even (townie) day then you can win with town still. And if you were yeeted on an odd day you straight up lose. So you should be happy it's an even day.

This claim is so bad. We 100% have to elem wam today. But it's such a wild thing to make up. His actual role probably is some weird odd even day thing.

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:59 pm
by boomfrog
I've past used up my mafia time budget today, but I'll try to respond to pings, especially from Santy. I'll be mostly checked out though. I'll check near deadline to make sure nothing crazy happened.

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:00 am
by boomfrog
somitomi wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:25 pm I've yet to see anyone explain how or why Heury supposedly getting a "no comment" on fake claims makes sense if they're not town, so I do not believe in that at all
I've been avoiding thinking about that since it's solving the game through tainted knowledge from a mod error. I think we should avoid discussing it.

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:02 am
by EGW
Boom, why do you think Sabrar voted me?

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:17 am
by Santygrass
boomfrog wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:00 pm I'd normally hold this back to talk about D3 since I think wam is the right elem toDay, but I want Santy's input on this and to give him more to work with. I think Heury has accidentally confessed to being scum. He didn't claim a game and as we can see from the sample role PM the Tales of Zestiria characters don't get an indicator about game. So neglecting to specify a game means he's from Zestiria.

Aligned with a Lord of Calamity and from Zestiria is another outlier. And he's trying to hide it.

Unvote Sabrar
Vote Heury


For the record I feel like wam is telling the truth, but also, like could easily be lying.
Wam wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 1:48 pm my calamity/shepard alignment depends on the day and being flavour blind I just tried to fit in and failed
Which days are you which alignment?

Vote Heury with me.
NO, Heury used a term that is specific to characters from Berseria- /Therion/
If anything is the purest game claim of them all because its almost an unconcious game claim

For those who dont want to read the wiki, its a term for a species of demons kindof , and its only a denomination that happened in the times of Tales Of Berseria, and not Zestiria.

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:18 am
by EGW
boomfrog wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:34 pmEGW, the fact that you sincerely think you will not actually change your answer is amazing to me. How can you not learn from your own past? How can you not accept that we all have to work with "probablies" all the time.
Did you not just see me flip my reads in the past few pages? I am just tired of being so unsure on the correct answer and decided to stick to my gut. Also your scum picks don't feel correct.
boomfrog wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:34 pmWhat was the misunderstanding from wam's perspective?
This post.

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:21 am
by EGW
boomfrog wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:34 pmBut I'm willing to lose to scum!santy at this point. Only goes down if something wild is revealed about the wam situation.
Yet I'm not.
boomfrog wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:34 pmSanty completely misunderstanding wam's purpose here is interesting. - It show's Santy is not concerned about wam's push on EGW. Maybe non-partner indicative with EGW, but also, not caring about wam's behavior which is weird as Santy's main scum read. So -town points for Santy.
Santy, can you explain this?

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:24 am
by EGW
I wish Boom stuck around because I desire interaction with him to help me improve my read on him.

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:24 am
by Santygrass
I would reread the post being linked there, its me actively questioning Wam motivation there , dont you see it?
And even asking them about their heury read, because even though heury was a main point of interest in that progression, the most they said about their alignment was "I can relate to that feeling"

Re: Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:25 am
by boomfrog
EGW wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:02 am Boom, why do you think Sabrar voted me?
I think he sincerely thought he had a solve. You've been avoiding scum reading a pretty small list of people while flailing all over trying to get traction anywhere even on people generally considered lock-town. If one assumes you are scum and never pushed a scummate then there's a short list left. Add a few more people ruled out by other things (some reads some mechanical like thinking wam was a cop.

It was a good attempt at a solve. And it's at an appropriate time for town sabrar. Short answer is, he started to belive I was town and so the next most resonable solve left is that you are scum.