Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

[Seven]

Vote count 2.7
1. Makhaira(1) - EGW
2. EGW(1) - Sabrar
3. Wam(2) - Santygrass, Makhaira
4. Sabrar(1) - Boomfrog
5. ahippo phillip(0) -
6. TehBubblez Somitomi(0) -
7. Boomfrog(1) - heuristically_alone
8. Bop(0) -
9. JC_DADDY25(0) -
10. heuristically_alone(0) -
11. Madge(0) -
12. Laserguy Santygrass(0) -

Not voting: phillip, Somitomi, Bop, JC_Daddy25, Madge, Wam

With 12 players alive it takes 7 to eliminate

Day 2 ends Thursday January 30th at 2 am.

[JC_DADDY25]

JC, how does that help you solve EGW in any way?

This feels more like a justification of 'you are not that useful anymore its okay to yeet yoy' rather than you actually committing to a read here. Like the reply to this doesnt help you solve EGW at all?

If he is town, then he's useful, and he is not okay to yeet. But we don't know if both of either flavor cops are town. If Boom and EGW are both scum and Boom did in fact use his JOAT ability to self target with his psychic ability and found out he was targeted by a flavor cop. And his scum mate is also a flavor cop, then he would know he can claim there are two flavor cops.

And how does all this theorizing relate to the question you did to EGW here?

Like, truly I dont see how any reply he has to this question will help your read on him. So I am asking to see how any reply of him help you solve his alignment.

Like, Im asking to make you help me understand what is your solving angle with this question.

Like, if he is useful you dont yeet him, but if he isnt you yeet him? Like, how does townyness relates to usefulness?

If I claim Vanilla Town you yeet me then?

In other words, how does this information help him to solve? Can he get information from that flavor that can help us?

Right now, if he is scum, he has info on everyone that he can just use to not really put his role claim in jeopardy of being debunked. And it's pretty much giving him -- and Boom to an extent -- town cred.

Does the info help me solve? I'm not sure, but something about the whole thing seems odd.

[JC_DADDY25]

Oh, and if you claim vanilla town I won't yeet you, but if you claim vanilla town and you target someone... good chance I would.

[Bop]

Flavor is modconfirmed not AI?

Are you sure of that?

As in, I do believe that the statement that being aligned with a shepard or lord of calamity *alone* isnt AI , but contrasti g it with other info could lead to results.

Otherwise EGW role would be useless, and all the talk about being aligned with one lord or shepard, or all the heavy flavor/lore summary Adum was making

This is the other half of where the flavor claiming comes from. As a standalone, I don't think the alignment is AI. But, from the people who have flipped and claimed, as well as from my role pm, the aligned with a Shepard vs aligned with a Lord of Calamity seems to tie directly with the character, and I think we can likely gleam in game alignment from that. I believe it can be a critical piece.

And I've been waiting on Somi but I don't want to wait before we can get 7 people if this leads to a good reveal or vote today. Maybe that's a misplay to not wait, but the risk is higher if I do. Here's my thoughts on the current claims and theory.


FACT:

In tales of Zestiria, we follow a hero Shepard in their fight against an evil Lord of Calamity.

In tales of Berseria, we follow a hero Lord of Calamity in their fight against evil Shepards.

THEORY:
I think this is the crux of the use of this flavor, especially with flavor cop abilities in the game. Look at the flavor for the initial day one, when the game was soley discussing Zestiria:

In a world where humans who become too emotional, can lose control and turn into demons through only a moment's weakness, war is smoldering on the horizon. People are starving. The land itself is even corrupted in many places.

Tales speak of a Lord of Calamity, one who seeks to destroy all life by making all humanity fall to the corruption of malevolence, and by their corruption turn all Seraphs as well. The Lord seeks to fan the flames of conflict for this purpose, depending on humanity to let itself fall when tested.

But one has arisen to stop this, a Shepherd for humanity and Seraphs alike with the power to purify Hellions and challenge the Lord of Calamity.

The inherent flavor is a Lord making humanity fall to malevolence, and a Shepherd helping us overcome. This makes sense to me as clear alignment, which is why some players assumed. I believe Zesteria players who are aligned with a Shepherd are likely town, and a Lord are likely scum.

Likewise, as you can learn in the synopsis, Berseria follows the hero Lord of Calamity and Therieon, Velvet. She fights against the Abbey and their Shepherds(top exorcists according to the wiki) evil plans. This also would make sense to me as generally alignment indicative within their own game. I believe Berseria works the opposite way, and Moody's claim checks out with my own. I believe Heroic (town) characters from Berseria are the ones aligned with a Lord of Calamity, and evil ones would align with a Shepherd, that game's villains.

So far, only three claims don't fit that main pattern.

Madge is from two games. There are some characters who live an extremely long time, and as her later game is Zestiria I would see aligned with a Shepherd as likely town. But it is one of the non standard ones.

Santy claims to be from Berseria, but aligned with BOTH a Lord of Calamity (heroic in Berseria) and Shepherd (evil in Berseria). This could be scum, but also would make sense an an independent with my theory.

Wam claims to be from Zestiria, but aligned with a Lord of Calamity (evil in Zestiria). This seems most likely to be scum to me.

Madge's claim of being a miller from the get makes me trust her, and being from both games mean with research we could probably guess her role.
But I cannot find a Zestiria character who makes sense to be aligned with a Lord of Calamity who isn't evil, and I cannot find a Berseria character who makes sense as aligned with both (or, to be honest, MOODY's character would make sense as she was trained in the abbey. However, Moody has confirmed he just was aligned with a lord.)

I for sure want a character claim from Wam, bc none of my research pulls up a character matching the flavor criteria who makes sense as town. I think Wam claimed assuming there was no harm in listing game/alignment not catching it could be a tell, but if Wam can claim a character that disproves me, who both makes sense to be aligned with a Lord but also that is heroic within the game of Zestiria, we can go from there.

I'd also want a character claim from Santygrass as well. Bearing in mind that we could have a multiball or sk situation, this would still fit within my "I can't figure out why I'm reading them both scummily" if they were scum as well. Being aligned with both a lord and shepherd, I'd believe independent is likely-but that doesn't rule out sk.

[Makhaira]

Flavor is modconfirmed not AI?

Are you sure of that?

As in, I do believe that the statement that being aligned with a shepard or lord of calamity *alone* isnt AI , but contrasti g it with other info could lead to results.

Otherwise EGW role would be useless, and all the talk about being aligned with one lord or shepard, or all the heavy flavor/lore summary Adum was making

This is the other half of where the flavor claiming comes from. As a standalone, I don't think the alignment is AI. But, from the people who have flipped and claimed, as well as from my role pm, the aligned with a Shepard vs aligned with a Lord of Calamity seems to tie directly with the character, and I think we can likely gleam in game alignment from that. I believe it can be a critical piece.

And I've been waiting on Somi but I don't want to wait before we can get 7 people if this leads to a good reveal or vote today. Maybe that's a misplay to not wait, but the risk is higher if I do. Here's my thoughts on the current claims and theory.


FACT:

In tales of Zestiria, we follow a hero Shepard in their fight against an evil Lord of Calamity.

In tales of Berseria, we follow a hero Lord of Calamity in their fight against evil Shepards.

THEORY:
I think this is the crux of the use of this flavor, especially with flavor cop abilities in the game. Look at the flavor for the initial day one, when the game was soley discussing Zestiria:

In a world where humans who become too emotional, can lose control and turn into demons through only a moment's weakness, war is smoldering on the horizon. People are starving. The land itself is even corrupted in many places.

Tales speak of a Lord of Calamity, one who seeks to destroy all life by making all humanity fall to the corruption of malevolence, and by their corruption turn all Seraphs as well. The Lord seeks to fan the flames of conflict for this purpose, depending on humanity to let itself fall when tested.

But one has arisen to stop this, a Shepherd for humanity and Seraphs alike with the power to purify Hellions and challenge the Lord of Calamity.

The inherent flavor is a Lord making humanity fall to malevolence, and a Shepherd helping us overcome. This makes sense to me as clear alignment, which is why some players assumed. I believe Zesteria players who are aligned with a Shepherd are likely town, and a Lord are likely scum.

Likewise, as you can learn in the synopsis, Berseria follows the hero Lord of Calamity and Therieon, Velvet. She fights against the Abbey and their Shepherds(top exorcists according to the wiki) evil plans. This also would make sense to me as generally alignment indicative within their own game. I believe Berseria works the opposite way, and Moody's claim checks out with my own. I believe Heroic (town) characters from Berseria are the ones aligned with a Lord of Calamity, and evil ones would align with a Shepherd, that game's villains.

So far, only three claims don't fit that main pattern.

Madge is from two games. There are some characters who live an extremely long time, and as her later game is Zestiria I would see aligned with a Shepherd as likely town. But it is one of the non standard ones.

Santy claims to be from Berseria, but aligned with BOTH a Lord of Calamity (heroic in Berseria) and Shepherd (evil in Berseria). This could be scum, but also would make sense an an independent with my theory.

Wam claims to be from Zestiria, but aligned with a Lord of Calamity (evil in Zestiria). This seems most likely to be scum to me.

Madge's claim of being a miller from the get makes me trust her, and being from both games mean with research we could probably guess her role.
But I cannot find a Zestiria character who makes sense to be aligned with a Lord of Calamity who isn't evil, and I cannot find a Berseria character who makes sense as aligned with both (or, to be honest, MOODY's character would make sense as she was trained in the abbey. However, Moody has confirmed he just was aligned with a lord.)

I for sure want a character claim from Wam, bc none of my research pulls up a character matching the flavor criteria who makes sense as town. I think Wam claimed assuming there was no harm in listing game/alignment not catching it could be a tell, but if Wam can claim a character that disproves me, who both makes sense to be aligned with a Lord but also that is heroic within the game of Zestiria, we can go from there.

I'd also want a character claim from Santygrass as well. Bearing in mind that we could have a multiball or sk situation, this would still fit within my "I can't figure out why I'm reading them both scummily" if they were scum as well. Being aligned with both a lord and shepherd, I'd believe independent is likely-but that doesn't rule out sk.

Moody flipped an exorcist from berseria and is confirmed town. Do you think this squares with your theory and if not how would you adjust it

[Makhaira]

Not voting: phillip, Somitomi, Bop, JC_Daddy25, Madge, Wam

With 12 players alive it takes 7 to eliminate

Day 2 ends Thursday January 30th at 2 am.

did I miss something, who is phillip

[Sabrar]

@everyone: Can we please not quote an entire post just to add a single sentence at the end (or even worse, not add anything)? Please put it in spoilers or link to it or something.

phillip replaced ahippo.

[JC_DADDY25]

Not voting: phillip, Somitomi, Bop, JC_Daddy25, Madge, Wam

With 12 players alive it takes 7 to eliminate

Day 2 ends Thursday January 30th at 2 am.

did I miss something, who is phillip

Replacement for ahippo

[Makhaira]

btw moody who did you try to neighborize btw, and did we confirm whether they got the invite despite your death

[Makhaira]

Not voting: phillip, Somitomi, Bop, JC_Daddy25, Madge, Wam

With 12 players alive it takes 7 to eliminate

Day 2 ends Thursday January 30th at 2 am.

did I miss something, who is phillip

Replacement for ahippo

oh weird ok because ahippo was still listed on the "board" for slots with vote counts. has phillip posted anything?

[Bop]

Moody flipped an exorcist from berseria and is confirmed town. Do you think this squares with your theory and if not how would you adjust it

@BF: If you're thinking something like association with a Lord of Calamity is correlated with scum, I've got bad news for you. I was associated with a Lord of Calamity (named Velvet, very tacky dresser), so that might explode your theory if it was such. I also would feel highly unqualified to pick claim order.

Moody's character used to work for the Abbey as an exorcist and ultimately betrays them, and that follows how Moody's was flipped associated with a Lord, which fits my theory.

[JC_DADDY25]

btw moody who did you try to neighborize btw, and did we confirm whether they got the invite despite your death

Didn't he say something about a birdie telling him something?

[Bop]

Anyway I long since should have headed to bed. I'll respond to whatever's there in the morning.

[Makhaira]

btw moody who did you try to neighborize btw, and did we confirm whether they got the invite despite your death

Didn't he say something about a birdie telling him something?

yo wait moody still has access to the hood as a stump thats crazy if so

[Makhaira]

how did I not put this together jfc

[Makhaira]

I need sleep Ill do as much rereading as possible before I pass out and before deadline tomorrow see you all then

[JC_DADDY25]

@Sabrar: So a little birdie told me that you said hi to Mak N1, and since it seems you'll be visiting two people N2 the birdie is a bit worried about what you'll say. Any comment?

There is also a response where he states he would need to ask his target if they were okay to bring revealed... which is not a good idea as long as Moody trusts that person, because it gives him a sounding board.

I just hope it's a line of communication he can keep for the rest of the game.

[JC_DADDY25]

how did I not put this together jfc

Especially since it's the basis for Sabrar admitting to targeting you, which you've addressed.

[Sabrar]

Having 2 flavor cops who need each other's result to be effective is a neat idea, I like it.

@bop.for my 2ps worth, I'm fairly certain, boom had someway of teeling who targeted them last night and boom was targeted by 2 flavour cops. None of that means he is town. I had the same power but any target in the last game as scum.

I thought from this that wam was surely one of them, but if not then it's just tmi.

[EGW]

To respond to JC, I never thought I'd get much use out of it. However I targeted Boom anyway since I suspected him at the time. This is the first time I've been a flavor cop, and in a setup with 2 flavor cops according to Boom Boom. Regardless, I just continued scumhunting. It's always my primary focus over mechanics. Plus I'm not interested in mechanics, and Sabrar knows that.

[Makhaira]

So people confirm that they read all the rules and still they ask (or are curious) about cult... (13)
And I know what Boomfrog is going to say, that he asked about alignment change in general, still he felt the need to clarify that he meant recruiting.
That is classic pretending to be solving.

Sab does this still bother you

[Sabrar]

No, not really.

[Sabrar]

Unvote

[EGW]

@EGW Do you think it's possible santy is snowing us?

Actually I'm going to flip that read. I do think Santy is snowing us. Notice how they come around to town reading me but they always manage to circle around to having doubt on you/sabrar/me as if they must. Then they focus on town casing Mak and Hippo hard. Then, their focus is on yeeting Wam with a false sense of confidence, and being opportunistic towards JC's questioning towards myself. They are putting in a lot of effort which I appreciate, however the end goal for them is to support their team mates and to seem like they are solving.

Scum: Mak > Santy > Ahippo.

[JC_DADDY25]

@EGW Do you think it's possible santy is snowing us?

Actually I'm going to flip that read. I do think Santy is snowing us. Notice how they come around to town reading me but they always manage to circle around to having doubt on you/sabrar/me as if they must. Then they focus on town casing Mak and Hippo hard. Then, their focus is on yeeting Wam with a false sense of confidence, and being opportunistic towards JC's questioning towards myself. They are putting in a lot of effort which I appreciate, however the end goal for them is to support their team mates and to seem like they are solving.

Scum: Mak > Santy > Ahippo.

I the words of the great Regis Philbin... Is that your final answer?