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I've heard from various people that use of mafia game terms/acronyms for the direct purpose of calling others out is considered a mild scumtell.
So, you feel all my content is all about intentionally irritating you? Really?osieorb18 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:03 am I would love to have a discussion on your point of view, but any such discussion requires us to come into the discussion in equally good faith with an equal understanding of the various posts in question, and given that you've been constantly and blatantly misrepresenting me, I don't see that happening. I want to believe that this is just you feeling like you've caught onto something, but it honestly just feels intentional as a way to irritate people.
I didn’t know what you meant by the abbreviation “PBPA”. Now I know you meant “post by post analyzing” and its something I used to do a lot on xkcd, where we had longer games with much lower content levels.osieorb18 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:03 am No. Again, I didn't say that. Again, you're misrepresenting my words. In this case you're even explicitly stating that you don't know what I meant, and that you're applying a meaning of your own construction.
I said very specifically "A malignment wall [is a technique] where a player, typically scum, goes [Post-By-Post Analyzing (PBPA) through] another player's ISO [with a preformed bias], and then throws in positives here and there for appearances."
You went through every one of my posts and said "I find this negative" over and over again. That's not hard to do.
Interesting. And quite rude. I guess I’m the Q-anon anti-vaxxer in your simile?osieorb18 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:03 am Ya know, after over a decade of forum moderation, I can pretty much tell that a person won't learn anything from me saying "What you're doing is wrong/unenjoyable/illogical" when they repeatedly double down. It's like talking to a typical anti-vaxxer or Q-Anon believer. They're convinced that they cannot ever be in the wrong as a person, even when acting obnoxious and illogical in the process of trying to make their argument.
Just so there is no misunderstanding, you are claiming your vote for moody in this post is not serious. Please correct me if I misunderstand because this affects my read of Moody so I want to be clear on it.
How many games have you played with Madge?
Hi Worst! Are you referring to my thoughts on Osie or on Madge?
I’m not sure if you think you are insulting me by “putting me down” at the level of the twins, but as I like and admire the one of them that I have played with before, I will take this as a compliment.
I didn’t say you were lurking. I said you were active lurking. There’s a difference between the two.
That’s a pretty serious accusation there. You are saying that I came into the game with the intention to eliminate someone in particular. Can you clarify as to when you believe I made this decision in relation to the timeline of the game? Because you obviously don’t know me at all or you would know how serious I am about the integrity of the game. Oh, and bolding something doesn’t make it true.osieorb18 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:09 am This is already a TERRIBLE progression to have on someone; the case is shifting when called out. She came into the game with the intention to miselim me, so by hook or by crook, she's gotta scumread me! And in typical gish-gallop style, bessie has already called me out for not addressing each individual point made in her posts.
Interesting, it’s right here:
Oh rude. And borderline something. You want me gone? Then vote me out, night kill me, or take it up with the mod. But don’t try to imply that I don’t belong here.
How many scums aren in this game and why, if you have such a large Poe, you don't have suspicion on the players you didn't mention.osieorb18 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:36 amI like this push too, though The Worst could still go either way for me. I think Boomfrog actually believes what they're saying here, unlike bessie. Boomfrog solid townread.boomfrog wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:54 pmHe is one of the few players that is familiar to you and has posted the most content. If you are trying to sort people he seems like the best place to start for you. But it seems like from your above post that you didn't really analyse him until I asked you to. So it seems to me like you aren't actively trying to sort.
Is any of that chan of logic inaccurate?
Vote The Worst
Tentative PoE: Bessie>>>Moody>>>heury>>>>>(madge/worst/WMU)
Gotta narrow that down to 3 ideally, 4 in an imperfect world.
Let's try this a different way. Since you keep on reframing my statements to mean something different, I'll just focus on your reframing here:bessie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:40 amSo, you feel all my content is all about intentionally irritating you? Really?osieorb18 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:03 am I would love to have a discussion on your point of view, but any such discussion requires us to come into the discussion in equally good faith with an equal understanding of the various posts in question, and given that you've been constantly and blatantly misrepresenting me, I don't see that happening. I want to believe that this is just you feeling like you've caught onto something, but it honestly just feels intentional as a way to irritate people.
My point is that finding all but a few of my posts useless at best and most of them suspicious, but suggesting that you did objective analysis, rather than going through with subjective bias, is absurd.
It's an elaborate way to state "Bessie's argument is illogical and she appears to me to be unwilling to listen to reasoning that contradicts her worldview." I tend to work with metaphors.bessie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:40 amInteresting. And quite rude. I guess I’m the Q-anon anti-vaxxer in your simile?osieorb18 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:03 am Ya know, after over a decade of forum moderation, I can pretty much tell that a person won't learn anything from me saying "What you're doing is wrong/unenjoyable/illogical" when they repeatedly double down. It's like talking to a typical anti-vaxxer or Q-Anon believer. They're convinced that they cannot ever be in the wrong as a person, even when acting obnoxious and illogical in the process of trying to make their argument.
More serious than an entirely random vote in the first post of a game, but not serious enough that I would call it serious or that I wouldn't still call it an RVS vote.
Played? Not so much. Seen? At least a couple.
Nah, the twins are fun. They just kinda defy expectations a lot of the time by being less predictable than average.
- Where did I say that you said I was lurking?
I am not talking about pre-game. I don't case people on material from prior to the host saying that the game has started. We already discussed that, in fact.bessie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:40 amThat’s a pretty serious accusation there. You are saying that I came into the game with the intention to eliminate someone in particular. Can you clarify as to when you believe I made this decision in relation to the timeline of the game? Because you obviously don’t know me at all or you would know how serious I am about the integrity of the game. Oh, and bolding something doesn’t make it true.osieorb18 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:09 am This is already a TERRIBLE progression to have on someone; the case is shifting when called out. She came into the game with the intention to miselim me, so by hook or by crook, she's gotta scumread me! And in typical gish-gallop style, bessie has already called me out for not addressing each individual point made in her posts.
Gotcha. So when I put myself at the top of a readlist, it's a notable "scumtell" to include when casing me? Do you think it's alignment indicative for someone to put themself at the top of their readlist? Should I have put myself at the bottom or middle? That seems counter-productive.
There's nothing personal about my statement. You've made an attempt to miselim me, and it's been exposed as being illogical. If you're town, the correct move is to reevaluate, to discuss in good faith when people call out issues with your argument, and to progress your reads. Not to double down and desperately try to pull up anything you can find to further your initial push.
I think there's 2 or 3 anti-town slots, more likely 2 than 3, but if there are 3, the third might be a neutral.xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:12 amHow many scums aren in this game and why, if you have such a large Poe, you don't have suspicion on the players you didn't mention.osieorb18 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:36 amI like this push too, though The Worst could still go either way for me. I think Boomfrog actually believes what they're saying here, unlike bessie. Boomfrog solid townread.boomfrog wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:54 pm
He is one of the few players that is familiar to you and has posted the most content. If you are trying to sort people he seems like the best place to start for you. But it seems like from your above post that you didn't really analyse him until I asked you to. So it seems to me like you aren't actively trying to sort.
Is any of that chan of logic inaccurate?
Vote The Worst
Tentative PoE: Bessie>>>Moody>>>heury>>>>>(madge/worst/WMU)
Gotta narrow that down to 3 ideally, 4 in an imperfect world.
What means the bolded?
Beyond my statement not being personal at all, this also seems like an obvious bit of logic:
Because we wouldn’t let you mod two Secret Santa games in a row.
Can you give me more information, like the full name of the site? I don’t know what the abbreviation NUF stands for.xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:28 pm Ftr NUF is a site where cool people are playing mafia
Saying miselim in every post doesn’t make it true.osieorb18 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:44 pm If you consider "FoS osieorb18" to be tunneling... Given that I was the first person to question bessie at all. If anything, I had the gall to question what she was doing and she took that as an excuse to expand one of her scummy feelers into a miselim attempt.
So do you agree with my observation that some of Osie’s early content could be considered active lurking?
Repeatedly saying miselim doesn’t make it true.
Interesting I usually have a negative view of LAMIST posts.
Hmm, why do you think my push is purely bad faith, and not because I find you suspicious?osieorb18 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:28 am Your explanation was, similarly, maybe even more so, a point in your favour for me; I found it townie. But didn't significantly sway the needle for me on bessie. Maybe it's that I'm involved in the discussion, but even tunneled town is rarely close to that level of bad faith pushing.
Oh, I believe everything I’m saying. You could just ask if you need clarification.
Well I would like to see you post some analysis today, so how about expanding on a null read?the worst wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:37 am The other part is like. Expanding on nonreads is not the kind of content I came here to produce. I'm happy to explain why I don't have a read on someone yet but I'm p sure its always going to be a snooze factory.
Expanding on Truly Null reads on the other hand
Refer to the underlined. Since you specify “constant” and since no one else has expresses irritation with me, well...osieorb18 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:27 amLet's try this a different way. Since you keep on reframing my statements to mean something different, I'll just focus on your reframing here:bessie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:40 amSo, you feel all my content is all about intentionally irritating you? Really?osieorb18 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:03 am I would love to have a discussion on your point of view, but any such discussion requires us to come into the discussion in equally good faith with an equal understanding of the various posts in question, and given that you've been constantly and blatantly misrepresenting me, I don't see that happening. I want to believe that this is just you feeling like you've caught onto something, but it honestly just feels intentional as a way to irritate people.
- Where did I point to "all of your content" or specify myself?
Hmmm, I kinda seriously wonder about some of these attacks, I mean most people don’t normally compare people they are playing a friendly game with to Q-Anon and anti-vaxers. Like, what kind of reaction are you expecting?osieorb18 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:27 am I'd actually compare you to some obvious scum games I've seen in which players have tried what seems to be your approach of casing something that is different from what their miselim target is saying but a bit similar in wording. Except this is extreme. Like, it's really hard to interpret your posts as anything other than disingenuous bad faith.
Where have you observed Madge play mafia before this forum?
I believe I haven't said anything to Osie about it since Page 3. But I do want to know the Worst's answer to my question in this post.
Answering and being cooperative helps townthe worst wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:28 amAnswering your question outright won't help me. What do you want me to be more specific about?xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:01 amAnd you avoid to answer at them because?
I don't really care about pressure, I play at my own pace.
Besides a vote from a scum read doesn’t mean pressure, means a bad push.
Until I figure if I am right or wrong I would appreciate more from you than some generalities.
I understand you don't risk a read for Osie because he can go either way. This is for me a non commital way of pocketing him.
You suggesting that I'm trying to pocket Osie kind of lacks nuance? - like by the same argument you could say that every single read ever made on d1 is some kind of pocketing attemptis there something that actually struck you as me trying to pocket osie?
hiya bessieHi Worst! Are you referring to my thoughts on Osie or on Madge?
ya amenboomfrog wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:55 am I've examined Osie's bloody entrails and read the signs. I hearby declare these undeniable truths:
1) Bessie and Osie are not scummates.
2) Osie was sincerely not role fishing.
3) Osie was not active lurking, this is a culture difference about how to start the game.
4) Bessie sincerely believes Osie's behavior fits role fishing and active lurking, there was not intentional misrepresentation.
5) Osie is either town or "scum frustrated they are being pressured for bullshit that wasn't actually scummy". Unfortunately the signs are uncertain in this matter.
Based on these signs I suggest you both drop the active lurking and role fishing parts of the case. They aren't interesting.
Sure. I don't attribute malice to active lurking before the game has really gotten started.So do you agree with my observation that some of Osie’s early content could be considered active lurking?
"Answering questions helps the town" is such a narrow statement. Understanding people's intentions and reading their alignments helps the town - I think you should already be able to work out the stuff you've been asking me and can't really discern why it's being asked so I don't think you approached me from a place of solving. So no, I don't think answering your questions was more helpful than trying to get more out of you.xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:28 amAnswering and being cooperative helps townthe worst wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:28 amAnswering your question outright won't help me. What do you want me to be more specific about?xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:01 am
And you avoid to answer at them because?
I don't really care about pressure, I play at my own pace.
Besides a vote from a scum read doesn’t mean pressure, means a bad push.
Until I figure if I am right or wrong I would appreciate more from you than some generalities.
I understand you don't risk a read for Osie because he can go either way. This is for me a non commital way of pocketing him.
You suggesting that I'm trying to pocket Osie kind of lacks nuance? - like by the same argument you could say that every single read ever made on d1 is some kind of pocketing attempt
If answering don't help you that's concerning for me and is strengthening my impression you are scum
Pocketing has so many levels and feels manipulative (manipulation is a form of deceiving people and I have a 6th sense for it).
Every time a read on someone is wishy washy, for me rings a bell because that kind of read doesn't bother that player and his reaction is mild and they just don't care much about it.
Look at how Osie reacted at Bessie's accusations and at your read.
If you are scum like I suspect you don't need an enemy who can post walls so your read for Osie is a non read.
This link doesn't work for me.Wam wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:03 pm
https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20220204T14&p0=4757&msg=End+of+Day+1&font=cursive
This post made me curious about the reason of the vote
Here is a post who says everyone is a good vote except himself, making me think surviving is duck's main intention
And I ask how he makes reads. Maybe my english is that bad that my intention is hidden?
I insist
He avoidsthe worst wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:53 pmI assumed your question was rhetorical :pSpoiler (Show/Hide)
yes there's a reason
would this answer ever be anything else
Here he pretend I am a good townie and yes, I am not so bad but in this playerslist I don't think I am that badass.the worst wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:58 am I don't know this plist particularly well. I know the folks I played with last time, and I'd be fairly scared of you being scum again. :p
From the outside world I know osie and I know wmu. I don't think ive actually seen WMU's scumgame but she can be a badass as town so it'd be interesting I guess. Osie is also good scum and it's been a hot minute but I feel like I have a p decent shot at reading him.
I insist againxX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:40 pmPlease explain your reason and the meaning of your last sentence like I am 5
Self meta? I don't need that, and i see the worst is still avoiding my questionsthe worst wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:08 pmI'd always say "yes there's a reason", right? I'm not the type of player who does things randomly without at least coming up with an excuse for it. How does asking me if I have a reason help sort me?Spoiler (Show/Hide)
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:40 pmPlease explain your reason and the meaning of your last sentence like I am 5
Again, I insistxX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:15 pmThe reason itself helps. Maybe I didn't ask for it literally but it's implied, and you ignored it and I want to know why.Spoiler (Show/Hide)
the worst wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:08 pmI'd always say "yes there's a reason", right? I'm not the type of player who does things randomly without at least coming up with an excuse for it. How does asking me if I have a reason help sort me?xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:40 pm
Please explain your reason and the meaning of your last sentence like I am 5
So me questioning him does not feel like I have an organic reasoning. That's a new mode to avoid me.
This is performative, is a post made to deflect again my question.the worst wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:08 amI feel like you're asking a lot of questions just for the sake of it. And I think you're a good wagon because I think pressure makes you more likely to get excited about a game which should make it easier for me to work out your alignmentSpoiler (Show/Hide)
Asking more from him is a normal course for me, as long as I notice he refused to share a read for OsiexX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:01 amAnd you avoid to answer at them because?Spoiler (Show/Hide)
I don't really care about pressure, I play at my own pace.
Besides a vote from a scum read doesn’t mean pressure, means a bad push.
Until I figure if I am right or wrong I would appreciate more from you than some generalities.
I understand you don't risk a read for Osie because he can go either way. This is for me a non commital way of pocketing him.
Here is the point where he don't even know where all this started because his only purpose was to make me give up.the worst wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:28 amAnswering your question outright won't help me. What do you want me to be more specific about?Spoiler (Show/Hide)
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:01 amAnd you avoid to answer at them because?
I don't really care about pressure, I play at my own pace.
Besides a vote from a scum read doesn’t mean pressure, means a bad push.
Until I figure if I am right or wrong I would appreciate more from you than some generalities.
I understand you don't risk a read for Osie because he can go either way. This is for me a non commital way of pocketing him.
You suggesting that I'm trying to pocket Osie kind of lacks nuance? - like by the same argument you could say that every single read ever made on d1 is some kind of pocketing attempt
I explain my thoughtsxX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:28 amAnswering and being cooperative helps townSpoiler (Show/Hide)
the worst wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:28 amAnswering your question outright won't help me. What do you want me to be more specific about?xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:01 am
And you avoid to answer at them because?
I don't really care about pressure, I play at my own pace.
Besides a vote from a scum read doesn’t mean pressure, means a bad push.
Until I figure if I am right or wrong I would appreciate more from you than some generalities.
I understand you don't risk a read for Osie because he can go either way. This is for me a non commital way of pocketing him.
You suggesting that I'm trying to pocket Osie kind of lacks nuance? - like by the same argument you could say that every single read ever made on d1 is some kind of pocketing attempt
If answering don't help you that's concerning for me and is strengthening my impression you are scum
Pocketing has so many levels and feels manipulative (manipulation is a form of deceiving people and I have a 6th sense for it).
Every time a read on someone is wishy washy, for me rings a bell because that kind of read doesn't bother that player and his reaction is mild and they just don't care much about it.
Look at how Osie reacted at Bessie's accusations and at your read.
If you are scum like I suspect you don't need an enemy who can post walls so your read for Osie is a non read.
And I receive a longer post. Thanksthe worst wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:32 pm"Answering questions helps the town" is such a narrow statement. Understanding people's intentions and reading their alignments helps the town - I think you should already be able to work out the stuff you've been asking me and can't really discern why it's being asked so I don't think you approached me from a place of solving. So no, I don't think answering your questions was more helpful than trying to get more out of you.Spoiler (Show/Hide)
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:28 amAnswering and being cooperative helps townthe worst wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:28 am
Answering your question outright won't help me. What do you want me to be more specific about?
You suggesting that I'm trying to pocket Osie kind of lacks nuance? - like by the same argument you could say that every single read ever made on d1 is some kind of pocketing attempt
If answering don't help you that's concerning for me and is strengthening my impression you are scum
Pocketing has so many levels and feels manipulative (manipulation is a form of deceiving people and I have a 6th sense for it).
Every time a read on someone is wishy washy, for me rings a bell because that kind of read doesn't bother that player and his reaction is mild and they just don't care much about it.
Look at how Osie reacted at Bessie's accusations and at your read.
If you are scum like I suspect you don't need an enemy who can post walls so your read for Osie is a non read.
Again your argument that pocketing is something manipulative means that like.... all you need is a degree of spin to view every interaction as pocketing. I think I'm fairly difficult to read accurately on day one so I'm p amenable to people seeing malice in benign stuff I do, but I am just not seeing what you're seeing.
p wary that you trying to convince me of Osie comes from a guilty mindset more often than a sincere one
Because every time you have been corrected on misrepresentations you have ignored it or misrepresented once more.bessie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:07 amHmm, why do you think my push is purely bad faith, and not because I find you suspicious?osieorb18 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:28 am Your explanation was, similarly, maybe even more so, a point in your favour for me; I found it townie. But didn't significantly sway the needle for me on bessie. Maybe it's that I'm involved in the discussion, but even tunneled town is rarely close to that level of bad faith pushing.
Constant does not mean "all of your content". It means, in context, as is its most reasonable interpretation if one is not trying to read something into it, "a vast majority of the time."bessie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:07 amRefer to the underlined. Since you specify “constant” and since no one else has expresses irritation with me, well...
Most people don't misrepresent the words of others ad nauseum in a friendly game.
I have observed at least two games of Madge's on this forum since I hosted one and a friend was playing in another. I may have read one of Madge's games on Smashboards, but I might be confusing her with someone else on that front.
To be fair, I tend to consciously not react to reads on me unless the reasoning behind them seems drastically poor.xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:28 am Every time a read on someone is wishy washy, for me rings a bell because that kind of read doesn't bother that player and his reaction is mild and they just don't care much about it.
