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bessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 6:36 pm

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 5:59 amConfirm.

An effort to correct a past mistake. Acceptable because he is a relative newbie to the game. Would be unacceptable from an experienced player.

Actually that was a genuine confirm, hadn't read my role until then

Seven wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:53 pm IMG_1828.jpg

bessie got me these a few years ago. Progress is going well. In that time, I've made it a page through Finnegan's wake and two pages through Ulysses.

SHAME

(I'll take them)

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:23 am

bessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 6:36 pm

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 5:59 amConfirm.

An effort to correct a past mistake. Acceptable because he is a relative newbie to the game. Would be unacceptable from an experienced player.

Actually that was a genuine confirm, hadn't read my role until then

Interesting. I take it, then, you were going to attempt to play the game, or at least the phase, without knowing your alignment, but your curiosity got the better of you? This leads me to suspect that you kept receiving messages by your scum mates. I suspect that if you had just received the one message from the game start, you would have been able to hold onto the playing-blind attempt, but that receiving multiple messages inadvertently revealed to you that you were scum and nudged you toward the temptation of checking.

Vote: Fred

That lines with your “not reading” DW post as well.

Answers time, think I found them all. Were in another game where most the content is whilst I'm asleep.

Wam wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 3:51 pm You would only be worried about bessie aura reading you if your aura is scummy

Why scummy? Why not respectful?
[/quote]

Because in a world of town the worst surely respectful would trust you to aura read the worst as town.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 7:09 pm

Wam wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 7:15 am

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 9:17 pm

Not immediately but when you feel both have sufficiently answered your questions could you explaining your thought process behind this question.

Level of seriesness, why you chose them, etc.

Because seven normally has a solve based on nothing right now and I think town seven is more likely to throw an actual answer back.

Santy because I trust their instincts and I was interested if they had anything yet. Insert paranoia about santy pocketing me.

vote thea

I asked the question should accept the answer.

This answer doesn't make me feel better about the question at all.

While Seven does tend to create scumreads based on wild theories relatively early in the game, I don't think it's been a solve this early AND this has been a pretty low info game which makes it even less likely.

And Santy is new to the forum, I can't see expecting this meta period.

This reads as setting up an impossible standard and I don't see a town motivation for that.

Plus I don't like sheeping in reaction to being questioned on this, even if it's explained (some of it implicitly).

I also reviewed pyp and dancers and it really doesn't match well with their town behavior.

Wam's my top elim pick at the moment.

(I'll note that this is separate from my reads of Santy, who I want to wait for their conversation with Laser aka Thea to percolate more, and Seven who I'm hoping for more after they feel better)

So Seven has been on and on about santys skills in threads along with in discord. Also santy won champs as town so whilst my personal experience is limited there is lots of evidence I trust saying they are high level!

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 12:51 am

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 11:37 pm

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 9:13 pm

I think that categorizing me as someone "new to the forum" is fairly reductive. Like, even in dancers it was aware of my range / that I was a good wolf / player in general. But Im interested in bolded. Can you elaborate on that?

I'm not talking about range, just pure meta. Even if you are a player who tends to draw really wide ranging conclusions (bad or good) based on really limited information he'd have no way to know.

That way you'd be able to compare their attempted solves to past solves and get an idea of if they're playing organically with their thought process.

The reason for the bold is was to look if Wam had a habit of asking these types of questions as town and meta >all in terms of understanding motivations for behavior.

For the first part I get that your point is that wam question would be moot / not really be conclusive if they wanted to solve me / see if my solve was organic right? Unless Im misindurstanding.

Which is something I agree, but at the same time I dont think that was Wam intention when asking me or seven at all haha~ . Like they werent looking for solving me or seven in specific, but rather to have a direction to throw something, hence why those elections, which makes sense approach wise with how afterwards they just took my answer and rolled with it (voting thea).

I think its motivation to progress in thread that is having a slow start + the interaction with me and seven I see something as rather bold and overall Im townleaning the approach in particular here.

Also Im a very stalwart preacher of lolmeta, but you may have something in regards to last paragraph to keep in mind. And would have more weight if people who played more with wam can confirm this is an oddity , or something that is more common in their wolf game rather than town game

Lol meta?

Question isn't asked at me but the og xkcd, bessie, moody, Thea (if they can access lasers memeories) are the ones who have played with me the most. After that probably seven.

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 8:25 am

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:23 am

bessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 6:36 pm An effort to correct a past mistake. Acceptable because he is a relative newbie to the game. Would be unacceptable from an experienced player.

Actually that was a genuine confirm, hadn't read my role until then

Interesting. I take it, then, you were going to attempt to play the game, or at least the phase, without knowing your alignment, but your curiosity got the better of you? This leads me to suspect that you kept receiving messages by your scum mates. I suspect that if you had just received the one message from the game start, you would have been able to hold onto the playing-blind attempt, but that receiving multiple messages inadvertently revealed to you that you were scum and nudged you toward the temptation of checking.

Vote: Fred

That lines with your “not reading” DW post as well.

Actually Madge was the one storming my DMs

Theallieza wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 5:01 pm

i love this read list style

i think i'm more scared of rolling opposite alignments to bessie than of like, being read by her. being scumread (especially if it's accurate) only makes me more powerful i'm not like.. that scared of that

@wam why are you conducting your interrogation of me assuming that bessie is town?


i kinda wonder if i actually think thea's reads belong to thea. they're like, a soft reflection of the ~general vibe~ of the thread but i don't feel like they feel that authentic? maybe the somi townread is a little interesting but i think it's fairly easy to find.

maybe i'm interested in more unique perspectives on why people scumread seven. i'm also curious why people other than wam scumread me i guess.

@the worst because in my head you would only be scared of bessie If you were scum and she wasn't on your team.

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 8:44 amSo Seven has been on and on about santys skills in threads along with in discord. Also santy won champs as town so whilst my personal experience is limited there is lots of evidence I trust saying they are high level!

It's not a question of their skills, as I explained to Santy, this doesn't help sort people at this stage of the game without meta and something to compare it to.

Also, you imply a town read on Santy, why?

I have a lean town read on santy but I don't think I implied?

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 2:45 pm I have a lean town read on santy but I don't think I implied?

Here:

Wam wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 7:15 am
Santy because I trust their instincts and I was interested if they had anything yet. Insert paranoia about santy pocketing me.

Maybe it was unintentional but a combination of "trusting their instincts" and the mention of paranoia for pocketing both imply a town read. Especially when you sheeped their vote after.

Either way, I'm interested in your rationale for that town lean.

Probably coming through subconsciously in my posting not deliberately. but pocketing would be in a situation of scum santy not town santy so I have implied both there.

Town lean is mainly gut feel but I think the below show a bit of a giving opions clearly and not.caring what others think attitude which to me is town.

https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=78499#p78499

https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=78502#p78502

https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=78607#p78607

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 8:44 amSo Seven has been on and on about santys skills in threads along with in discord.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Quick post, I might not have much time until tomorrow afternoon

the worst wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 11:07 am i think i'm more scared of rolling opposite alignments to bessie than of like, being read by her. being scumread (especially if it's accurate) only makes me more powerful i'm not like.. that scared of that

Ok walk me through the reason town!you has to fear scum!bessie's read? Or even why bessie's ability to soulread would even be relevant in that scenario?

Seven wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:48 pm @Mods the background color in the gif I posted is quite a pain in the eyes. Mind if I edit the post to put it in spoilers?

You have permission to do so.

Morning bark!

somitomi wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:06 pm Holy smokes what happened to your book? Did you do this to it!?

Yes! I made it easier to read.

moody7277 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:16 pm bessie-- votes Madge (and Bessie never ever random votes), woof-grr list mostly fun, post quoting most players. +1

I don’t participate in RVS. I rarely vote early. However, Madge is obviscum, along with Sabrar.
You know me well enough by now to know that my confirmation post analysis is totally serious.

moody7277 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:16 pm @bessie: IIRC the last sentence fragment of Finnegan's Wake blends into the first one, right?

Yes! +.5 for knowing this (I can’t award a full point because it is possible that you looked it up to buddy me.)

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:48 pm One of us, one of us!

I'm only disappointed you didn't mention this earlier!

I usually change my avatar on Bloomsday but this year I forgot.

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:48 pm Note that she says "one of my copies", that's a copy for highlighting important things, making notes and the like. She likely has at least one pristine copy, it is after all one of her favorite books.

Yes! I have a 1964 Faber & Faber third edition, hardcover with dust jacket.

Seven wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:53 pm bessie got me these a few years ago. Progress is going well. In that time, I've made it a page through Finnegan's wake and two pages through Ulysses.

Page 1 of Finnegans Wake is the best page. How many times did you read it?
[And it’s Finnegans, not Finnegan’s; this distinction is important.]
Negative points for not completing your first readthrough the week you received it.

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:23 am Actually that was a genuine confirm, hadn't read my role until then

Then I will need to assign negative points for posting game content in what is technically your pre-game confirmation stage.

Freddino18 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 7:03 am

Seven wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:53 pm IMG_1828.jpg

bessie got me these a few years ago. Progress is going well. In that time, I've made it a page through Finnegan's wake and two pages through Ulysses.

SHAME

(I'll take them)

This is 100% the correct reaction. +1
I’ll send you a copy if you’re willing to read it and discuss it with me.

So Fred is claiming that he had not read his role yet before that confirmation post, but he had a profile picture that he says he usually uses as a breadcrumb to his role that he had changed prior to his first post. Confirmed by his post on regards to making sure it wasn't directly tied by the title to what his actual intent was...

Is that right?

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 8:13 pm So Fred is claiming that he had not read his role yet before that confirmation post, but he had a profile picture that he says he usually uses as a breadcrumb to his role that he had changed prior to his first post. Confirmed by his post on regards to making sure it wasn't directly tied by the title to what his actual intent was...

Is that right?

That's a very good point and I think your correct that it doesn't add up

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 2:21 amI took the flavor to mean that town are the Hawk King's servants before they were his servants, and scum are the utopian rebels.

@Adum, how did you interpret it? Sorry if I've missed you already discussing it.

Wam wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 12:12 pm @the worst because in my head you would only be scared of bessie If you were scum and she wasn't on your team.

fair enough

damn I got really drunk and really loud last night, now my voice is shot and loud things hurt my head

I played an offside game in-between this and the last one and spearheaded scum D2 for not reading carefully so Im down to wagon fred for doing the same

Vote: Fred

Santy is giving rabid town lite but def not out of scumrange

Adum feels a little stiff here

I kinda vibe with wams push on the worst, def a weird thing to say one is afraid of bessie for, could go there too for the elim today

Bessie posting almost all filler is suss and thea seeming to have a positive reaction to her first post that actually provides slivers of reads set off scum pings for me but that would be strangely obvious buddying for the slot, maybe scum!thea trying to pocket bessie? Or maybe I'm not parsing these quotes correctly

JC can be town this game

Seven seems ok so far, maybe somi too

Santy how many wrong wagons are you allowed to be on for it to be fair for you to get yeeted on principle?

Hihi, busy day today sorry for lateness

AdumbroDeus wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 4:43 am

Santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 12:51 am For the first part I get that your point is that wam question would be moot / not really be conclusive if they wanted to solve me / see if my solve was organic right? Unless Im misindurstanding.

Yep, and specifically if it's something you normally did in this stage in the game so comparison for organicness could be done.

Even for seven I don't think it had value for sorting. I do think it had value for laying misyeet traps for at least one of you.

Which is something I agree, but at the same time I dont think that was Wam intention when asking me or seven at all haha~ . Like they werent looking for solving me or seven in specific, but rather to have a direction to throw something, hence why those elections, which makes sense approach wise with how afterwards they just took my answer and rolled with it (voting thea).

I think its motivation to progress in thread that is having a slow start + the interaction with me and seven I see something as rather bold and overall Im townleaning the approach in particular here.

Disagree, a solve is a solve. Consider that you might be giving too much benefit of the doubt for the same reason I find it scummy, because on it's face, it's a ridiculous request.

Whether being bold is AI depends on the player, Wam is past that from my fly on the wall estimation of his play. "Starting discussion" again isn't AI, even if town does get value generally. Discussion is a tool to be used to create information to sort. I don't see the town incentive for the question and when pressed further I don't see a town motivation.

Also Im a very stalwart preacher of lolmeta, but you may have something in regards to last paragraph to keep in mind. And would have more weight if people who played more with wam can confirm this is an oddity , or something that is more common in their wolf game rather than town game

It's more being used as a negative here, if they do this as town (or more generally ask questions that are meaningless or even help scum more than town) just to get the ball rolling, it's not AI inherently.

But in general my play style is trying to get into people's head and understanding their thought process to discern motivations so meta>all because it's confirmed "how somebody thinks in a given role".

Mobileposting, so formating is going to suck a bit.

@AdumbroDeus what makes you think that Wam was trying lay misyeet traps for Seven or me? I see zero indication of that (They townleaned me, and are not jumping on sussing Seven despite it being something easy to jump on)

And I think going by meta of 'if you did this before is okay, and if its something new then your scum' is like, not good as an analysis of a player. Feels almost reductive to game context and nuances and how easily can shift a player. I am a very adaptive player myself and have seen countless times these time of "meta" reads just be wrong.
I say lolmeta because I sont trust them to be accurate in most scenarios (there are instances in where I do trust them, or use them to compliment a read. But usually weight them more if there is history of those players playing together and having good accuracy at finding each other)


For the reply to the second part quoted. Why it being a ridiculous request is scummy? I dont get it.
I like how it was made and the interactions and desire to progress. Look at the worst posting 'who is mafia?' for example. In a vaccuum is the same thing, asking for people to tell who they think is scum, just more open ended and very skippable. Wam created a back and forth, and had the intention that if they got something, to support it. Why is that scummy?

You can disagree with the boldneds being AI or depending in playerstyle, but still the reason for scumreading it you are giving seems very flawed to me. Almost like you are already scumreading them and just want to make reasons so it fits / backwards process.

And for the last part, I also read people empathizing with how they are approaching the game / solving. Its kinda what I did to Wam and see the intention of their question + vote afterwards adding up and how I ended up townreading them