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I double posted again. Ignore this post.

Votecount 2.16

1. Boomfrog: Sabrar, Swiss
2. Swiss
3. Madge
4. Seven
5. JC: Seven
6. Fonti: Boomfrog
7. bessie
8. Sabrar

Not voting:
Madge, JC, Fonti, Bessie

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
N/A

With 8 players, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 2 is Friday December 15th at 11:59PM EST

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:54 am JC is the better yeet from my view. If Boom flips scum, I am vigged. If JC flips town, I am vigged. The case of JC flipping town and Boom flipping scum lead to the same vig outcome. However, if JC flips scum, that supports my proposed team, Boom would be vigged and depending on whether JC is venge, we might get an extra ML out of it.

If the team is exactly as you say then yeeting JC is the correct choice. However in that case yeeting Boom first still allows us to survive to D3, while if we happen to misyeet JC and Vig shoots town!you then we automatically lose. And of course if you're scum then JC is almost surely a misyeet anyway.
Yeeting JC gives the highest reward, yeeting Boom is the safest play given all considerations.

Vote Boomfrog

Don't expect much from me for the rest of the day.

Town
JC
Swiss
Zen

Sabrar
Bessie
Madge

Boom

Willing to die on the hill that JC is town.

Swiss is town unless Boom is Venge and Zen is town. I think weve already lost in that world. He cares too much about the game, the dunks on boom are on point, and the dislike of Zen feels real.

I think Zen feels real. I think Boom is the only person who agrees, and I don't know what to do with that. I think Zen has a better scum game than this and she's being scumread because she's making genuine choices.

Sabrar logic feels good whenever he talks. Idk, I don't trust the lack of push? And I think there's probably scum in him or Bessie with the laser kill, and he's saying Bessie is town.

I'm taking other people's word on Bessie. I like her attitude, but don't see much else I can get a read on.

Madge, I'm souring on, mostly due to her just not being here. That's hypocritical, but whatever. Not scum with Sabrar. Which means either I'm wrong on a townread, or y'all are wrong on Bessie.

Boom is misrepresenting me. I think it's deliberate. If they're vengeful, so be it.

fontisian wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:54 pm I think Zen feels real. I think Boom is the only person who agrees, and I don't know what to do with that. I think Zen has a better scum game than this and she's being scumread because she's making genuine choices.

Why would I defend Seven so hard if I'm scum? I could have sided with Swiss early D2 and gone on the seven wagon with him. If your town read of Seven was real you would have a different opinion of me. If you are town then vote Swiss and I'll move too.

Swiss wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:19 pm ^Zen is acting abrasive - and he even admitted his playstyle has changed through this game. I absolutely do NOT buy that he "changed his play style so that I might town read him". If your play style is authentic, it does not and I would say cannot change.

Especially early D2 when he was the 'main' elim target, he was playing like he *wanted* to be elim'd. It's a perfect wifom and a great way to slither your way out. He's a snake. A serpent.

If that's how you really feel then why would you let him escape the yeet? Did he want to or he is using wifom to avoid the yeet?

And by the way, the vengeful mafia still doesn't actually want to be eliminated. Your logic makes no sense.

Swiss wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:22 pm And why the fuck am I bothering justifying to one scum read why I sus the other.

First beer opening eta 45 mins then I'm gone

Because if you were town you'd still have townie doubt and be trying to figure out how to best direct the vig if I flip town. But you've always just 100% assumed I'm scum in all your planning. If you were worried that I was town you'd be worried about the fact that I've been directing the vig to shoot you and Fonti. But you've got no worries, because the game is going well for your team.

boomfrog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:27 pm

fontisian wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:54 pm I think Zen feels real. I think Boom is the only person who agrees, and I don't know what to do with that. I think Zen has a better scum game than this and she's being scumread because she's making genuine choices.

Why would I defend Seven so hard if I'm scum? I could have sided with Swiss early D2 and gone on the seven wagon with him. If your town read of Seven was real you would have a different opinion of me. If you are town then vote Swiss and I'll move too.

Why did you say I was pushing a you/Seven team?

Unvote

I will think about it.

boomfrog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:34 pm

Swiss wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:22 pm And why the fuck am I bothering justifying to one scum read why I sus the other.

First beer opening eta 45 mins then I'm gone

Because if you were town you'd still have townie doubt and be trying to figure out how to best direct the vig if I flip town. But you've always just 100% assumed I'm scum in all your planning. If you were worried that I was town you'd be worried about the fact that I've been directing the vig to shoot you and Fonti. But you've got no worries, because the game is going well for your team.

Both you and Seven are suspicious of me. Scum only need two wrong townies to win. If you're both town, why would scum Swiss bother pushing you over me?

Done thinking.

I buy Swiss's push. I don't buy Boom's.

Vote Boomfrog

Sorry Boom. If I'm wrong, we can talk about it after the game.

boomfrog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 3:12 pm Jfc, I meant pick Swiss or Fonti. I'm tearing my hair out at how obvious they are if you aren't tunneling me. Sabrar and Seven have been trying to solve and poking around. Fonti has been completely incurious and Swiss has them lock town for no reason.

@Vig: after I'm confirmed town you better follow my reads. Your N1 pick was terrible.

I think Fonti is more likely to be Vengeful but Seven won't follow me on Swiss.

Stop letting Swiss high activity level = towniness. He's done absolutely nothing to actually scum hunt or help the town work together.

If Fonti was town they would have done what they said rhey do as town in Things I Like mafia, they would have solidified a town core, but you can see they aren't doing that.

Vote Fonti

I'm not sure why you thought that was a choice I was considering. I never indicated that I'd be willing to vote Swiss.

The one thing I'm most certain about is that Fonti and JC are partners. Your ability to simulate a townie-on-the-brink-of-death mindset has seeded some doubt that you're the third, but not enough to make me vote Swiss. I am sticking with JC. It's clear the scumteam wants to preserve him the most. You said you would follow me. Don't reneg. Was there no principle behind that convo with Fonti about going back on their word?

Sabrar wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:53 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:54 am JC is the better yeet from my view. If Boom flips scum, I am vigged. If JC flips town, I am vigged. The case of JC flipping town and Boom flipping scum lead to the same vig outcome. However, if JC flips scum, that supports my proposed team, Boom would be vigged and depending on whether JC is venge, we might get an extra ML out of it.

If the team is exactly as you say then yeeting JC is the correct choice. However in that case yeeting Boom first still allows us to survive to D3, while if we happen to misyeet JC and Vig shoots town!you then we automatically lose. And of course if you're scum then JC is almost surely a misyeet anyway.
Yeeting JC gives the highest reward, yeeting Boom is the safest play given all considerations.

Your concern is that Boom and I are paired, correct? And you agree with my reads if I'm not scum?

If I am partnered with Boom, I am vigged regardless of whether we flip scum!Boom or town!JC. These are two sides of the same coin. However, with a Boom scum flip, you won't be able to conclude anything about my alignment. With a JC town flip you will have a solid foundation that both Boom and I are scum. If JC flips mafia, you will have a solid foundation that I am town, and that Fonti and Boom are scum.

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:51 pm

boomfrog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 3:12 pm Jfc, I meant pick Swiss or Fonti. I'm tearing my hair out at how obvious they are if you aren't tunneling me. Sabrar and Seven have been trying to solve and poking around. Fonti has been completely incurious and Swiss has them lock town for no reason.

@Vig: after I'm confirmed town you better follow my reads. Your N1 pick was terrible.

I think Fonti is more likely to be Vengeful but Seven won't follow me on Swiss.

Stop letting Swiss high activity level = towniness. He's done absolutely nothing to actually scum hunt or help the town work together.

If Fonti was town they would have done what they said rhey do as town in Things I Like mafia, they would have solidified a town core, but you can see they aren't doing that.

Vote Fonti

I'm not sure why you thought that was a choice I was considering. I never indicated that I'd be willing to vote Swiss.

The one thing I'm most certain about is that Fonti and JC are partners. Your ability to simulate a townie-on-the-brink-of-death mindset has seeded some doubt that you're the third, but not enough to make me vote Swiss. I am sticking with JC. It's clear the scumteam wants to preserve him the most. You said you would follow me. Don't reneg. Was there no principle behind that convo with Fonti about going back on their word?

I'm still trying to decide if JC or bessie is the last scum. You and sabrar need to pick one target. If he votes JC I'll move. We need every townie together or its irrelevant.

boomfrog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:32 pmI'm still trying to decide if JC or bessie is the last scum. You and sabrar need to pick one target. If he votes JC I'll move. We need every townie together or its irrelevant.

Why are you willing to vote JC so suddenly? He was one of your top townreads:

boomfrog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:12 am JC and Seven are town.
...
JC is just based on a few posts and is more gut, but I think it's pretty likely correct.

boomfrog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:32 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:51 pm

boomfrog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 3:12 pm Jfc, I meant pick Swiss or Fonti. I'm tearing my hair out at how obvious they are if you aren't tunneling me. Sabrar and Seven have been trying to solve and poking around. Fonti has been completely incurious and Swiss has them lock town for no reason.

@Vig: after I'm confirmed town you better follow my reads. Your N1 pick was terrible.

I think Fonti is more likely to be Vengeful but Seven won't follow me on Swiss.

Stop letting Swiss high activity level = towniness. He's done absolutely nothing to actually scum hunt or help the town work together.

If Fonti was town they would have done what they said rhey do as town in Things I Like mafia, they would have solidified a town core, but you can see they aren't doing that.

Vote Fonti

I'm not sure why you thought that was a choice I was considering. I never indicated that I'd be willing to vote Swiss.

The one thing I'm most certain about is that Fonti and JC are partners. Your ability to simulate a townie-on-the-brink-of-death mindset has seeded some doubt that you're the third, but not enough to make me vote Swiss. I am sticking with JC. It's clear the scumteam wants to preserve him the most. You said you would follow me. Don't reneg. Was there no principle behind that convo with Fonti about going back on their word?

I'm still trying to decide if JC or bessie is the last scum. You and sabrar need to pick one target. If he votes JC I'll move. We need every townie together or its irrelevant.

Given my post here, it is not possible for Swiss and bessie to be on the same scum team. Fonti and JC are mafia. If you are town^TM, you need to ingest this fact.

I am not scum, so I'm guessing you're getting vigged tonight Seven. May as well let us know what your great solve is now, though once I flip town and it's shown that your current reads are crap I don't know how much weight your opinion will have.

But hey, it's been a great game.

Actually, not really, I think I've had a horrible game.

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:59 pm I am not scum, so I'm guessing you're getting vigged tonight Seven. May as well let us know what your great solve is now, though once I flip town and it's shown that your current reads are crap I don't know how much weight your opinion will have.

But hey, it's been a great game.

https://youtu.be/eQ-U2kGDHSI?si=D5kgD8dLF-BuHYZk

Sabrar wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:40 pm

boomfrog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:32 pmI'm still trying to decide if JC or bessie is the last scum. You and sabrar need to pick one target. If he votes JC I'll move. We need every townie together or its irrelevant.

Why are you willing to vote JC so suddenly? He was one of your top townreads:

boomfrog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:12 am JC and Seven are town.
...
JC is just based on a few posts and is more gut, but I think it's pretty likely correct.

So was bessie and one of them is scum. If you and Seven can agree I'll follow, but the most likely case is I get yeeted.

JC_DADDY25 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:59 pm I am not scum, so I'm guessing you're getting vigged tonight Seven. May as well let us know what your great solve is now, though once I flip town and it's shown that your current reads are crap I don't know how much weight your opinion will have.

But hey, it's been a great game.

It's time for you to vote. Me, swiss or fonti. Pick one and vote.

Swiss wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:19 pmEspecially early D2 when he was the 'main' elim target, he was playing like he *wanted* to be elim'd. It's a perfect wifom and a great way to slither your way out. He's a snake. A serpent.

I have no idea what you're referring to here.

Swiss wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:19 pm ^Zen is acting abrasive - and he even admitted his playstyle has changed through this game. I absolutely do NOT buy that he "changed his play style so that I might town read him". If your play style is authentic, it does not and I would say cannot change.

We tend to think of "authentic" as synonymous with "sincere," but really what it means is "simple." Authenticity cannot exist in a self-reflecting system as the using the term self-referentially is inherently paradoxical. Animals are authentic because they are not self-reflecting in a way that allows them to modify their behavior. Input leads to output. A simple system. In contrast, I am not authentic, but I am sincere. Which are you?

I go to bed in 15 minutes. What do you want me to reread to change my mind?

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:43 pm

boomfrog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:32 pm

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:51 pm
I'm not sure why you thought that was a choice I was considering. I never indicated that I'd be willing to vote Swiss.

The one thing I'm most certain about is that Fonti and JC are partners. Your ability to simulate a townie-on-the-brink-of-death mindset has seeded some doubt that you're the third, but not enough to make me vote Swiss. I am sticking with JC. It's clear the scumteam wants to preserve him the most. You said you would follow me. Don't reneg. Was there no principle behind that convo with Fonti about going back on their word?

I'm still trying to decide if JC or bessie is the last scum. You and sabrar need to pick one target. If he votes JC I'll move. We need every townie together or its irrelevant.

Given my post here, it is not possible for Swiss and bessie to be on the same scum team. Fonti and JC are mafia. If you are town^TM, you need to ingest this fact.

Woof.

Seven wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:54 am 5 v 3

Boom yeet:
If Boom flips scum, I'm likely vigged.

Boom not venge = 3v2 D3
Boom venge = 2 v 2 end game

JC yeet
JC flips town, I'm vigged and town
2v3

JC flips town, I'm vigged and scum
3v2

JC flips scum, Boom is Vigged.

If JC vengeful
3v1

If JC not venge
4v1

JC is the better yeet from my view. If Boom flips scum, I am vigged. If JC flips town, I am vigged. The case of JC flipping town and Boom flipping scum lead to the same vig outcome. However, if JC flips scum, that supports my proposed team, Boom would be vigged and depending on whether JC is venge, we might get an extra ML out of it.

You failed to point out that if Boom flips scum and you're vigged - then turn out to be scum - that puts us at...

4 - 1 if Boom isn't vengeful.

3 - 1 is Boom is vengeful.

Can someone else check my math?

Sabrar wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:27 pm I go to bed in 15 minutes. What do you want me to reread to change my mind?

Nothing you could read in 15 minutes that would convince you in fonti.

Maybe the start of D2 posts from Swiss that are about me? He goes from a strong town read to a scum read just because I like Seven. Then never pushes voting Seven but is happy to yeet me for an indirect scum read.