Songs of Our Times Mafia Game Thread - Game Over

[Seven]

@MB: can you confirm with mods that your ability is considered a vote manipulation ability? Because the way it works is not something I'd personally consider a vote manipulation ability.

@moody: Thanks for answering my questions!

Vote: Madge

(not actual vote)

[Seven]

I actually think it is MB here. His broken logic is becoming too unreasonable to me to be coming from a town player I think.

Yes it is possible TW did the kill N1 but not probable as I don’t think Ducky confirms me blocking him D1 as scum when scum!Ducky lost scum on D1. This means that he can never scumread anyone I have blocked ever again. I don’t think Ducky sets himself up like that.

This, for example, is just nonsensical. If Duck did not confirm that he was RBed, then that would have created a thunderdome between the two.

I am thinking WMU or Madge. Madge’s paranoia goes beyond the logical. Assuming three scum there is a townblock of me+Worst+Seven.

I would have to repeatedly block and kill each night as I am confirmed to have blocked because of the sheep message. So then the town block never is smaller than three. So then in elo I would just be elimmed. The fact of the matter is I will be dying eventually and I am pretty much a cop at this point.

This too is pernicious. Scum!MB can easily argue in lylo that there must be a strongmang after all. He knows how much I want to elim Ducky, and that I would be inclined to vote him in a 3-way. Additionally, MB has continuously treated Duck as being actually confirmed not scum from his RB and avoided addressing how that isn't true until pressed on it. I suspect that this is something that he intended to avoid until lylo where he'd be forced to 'reconsider.'

Additionally, for someone who is a mechanical/hyperlogical player, he made no attempt to integrate how Morgan's role fit with the scumteam. He didn't even consider it until Morgan brought it up, and then ignored it and voted him in the end anyway. This is in stark contrast with the way he made an attempt to logically present why he and the worst weren't scum in that big SvS/SvT/TvS/TvT post.

Vote: Mathblade

(actual vote)

Let's try this again.

[somitomi]

Votecount

Votee (Votes/Elimination) - Voter(s)
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

the worst (1/4) - moody7277
Wam (1/4) - xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
madge (1/4) - MathBlade
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx (1/4) - the worst
MathBlade (1/4) - Seven

Not Voting (3): madge, SuperJedi224, Wam

Day 3 Elimination Deadline will be 10 AM PST on December 9th.

Reminder that it takes 2 votes to eliminate by plurality and 4 to eliminate by majority.

AC3.2

SuperJedi224 - 3
moody7277 - 2
MathBlade - 14
the worst - 7
Seven - 9
Wam - 5
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx - 2
madge - 6

Second Cutoff

[the worst]

I'm in favour of flipping Mathb before endgame but we should do it tomorrow for the xtra clear : )

vote: moody

[Seven]

Nah, I'm not in favor of leaving scum alive for mechanical efficiency.

[the worst]

I'm cool w that, if it's a mathb/moody dichotomy based on how heavily we want to rely on auto win tomorrow, we're probably gonna win. Lol.

I also just think moody is scum so I'm not gonna move my vote in a hurry.

[the worst]

Honestly I think too much of Math's play makes sense from stubborn town before it makes sense from scum. I agree scum!math has a narrow narative he needs to push to win, but if we believe he's scum then he's been deliberately narrowing his narrative since he immediately claimed D2 and that doesn't seem like.... Super scum adjacent.

I literally think moody is treading water and has lost interest in the game which is pretty congruent with scum who are being slowly PoE'd into oblivion

[SuperJedi224]

It could be either, not going to put my vote in on which just yet

[Seven]

I actually don't think moody is scummy. And I think any case for MB town is WIFOM. The argument from him, as well as the one you presented there, are "why would he do this as scum" yet he also talks about how he is a master scum planner who can easily carve himself a path to endgame so the argument falls flat. Additionally, we still don't know if there is another scum out there. Most of us were thinking 9-3-1, and honestly I think this game needs an MB flip for solve. Like everything in the game is pointing to you and him, and the thought occurred to me that perhaps you could be a traitor which Madge's results don't cover. Is this a possibility @Madge?

[xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx]

i mean if you are a wolf you should be terrified of me, but IDK why that paragraph translates to me being terrifying
Active lurky in what way, what should I be posting?

The terrifying bit was a comment on post count - you easily have more than twice the next most prolific player's count, and you're describing that as less than normal. I tend to visit the thread relatively infrequently, so super high post counts can get a bit daunting.

The active lurky thing is just me noticing that despite that high post count, there's not really a lot of (for want of a better word) analysable content yet. That kind of "post a lot, but don't actually say much" is generally considered scummy around here. Less than 24 hours into D1, and particularly as I've not played with you before, I'm more than willing to chalk it up to differences in play style. Think of the comment as a post-it to remind me to come back and check later.

As MathBlade said to me, we want to know what you're thinking about other players, and I haven't seen that yet in your posts.

What do you think about the last sentence of this post?

[xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx]

I actually think it is MB here. His broken logic is becoming too unreasonable to me to be coming from a town player I think.

Yes it is possible TW did the kill N1 but not probable as I don’t think Ducky confirms me blocking him D1 as scum when scum!Ducky lost scum on D1. This means that he can never scumread anyone I have blocked ever again. I don’t think Ducky sets himself up like that.

This, for example, is just nonsensical. If Duck did not confirm that he was RBed, then that would have created a thunderdome between the two.

I am thinking WMU or Madge. Madge’s paranoia goes beyond the logical. Assuming three scum there is a townblock of me+Worst+Seven.

I would have to repeatedly block and kill each night as I am confirmed to have blocked because of the sheep message. So then the town block never is smaller than three. So then in elo I would just be elimmed. The fact of the matter is I will be dying eventually and I am pretty much a cop at this point.

This too is pernicious. Scum!MB can easily argue in lylo that there must be a strongmang after all. He knows how much I want to elim Ducky, and that I would be inclined to vote him in a 3-way. Additionally, MB has continuously treated Duck as being actually confirmed not scum from his RB and avoided addressing how that isn't true until pressed on it. I suspect that this is something that he intended to avoid until lylo where he'd be forced to 'reconsider.'

Additionally, for someone who is a mechanical/hyperlogical player, he made no attempt to integrate how Morgan's role fit with the scumteam. He didn't even consider it until Morgan brought it up, and then ignored it and voted him in the end anyway. This is in stark contrast with the way he made an attempt to logically present why he and the worst weren't scum in that big SvS/SvT/TvS/TvT post.

Vote: Mathblade

(actual vote)

Let's try this again.

Vote MathBlade

[MathBlade]

@MB: can you confirm with mods that your ability is considered a vote manipulation ability? Because the way it works is not something I'd personally consider a vote manipulation ability.

@moody: Thanks for answering my questions!

Vote: Madge

(not actual vote)

I am 99% sure it is but have asked osie

[xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx]

If I accept your and Madge's interpretations, that would cycle MB as a surprisingly honest scum!rb who the current plan is on using to clear other people, or wam maybe into votable position. If you and other people feel that I am cycled into votable position, I will fully understand since town has a miselim to give, and hope that my wagon will be educational.

I'll have to read through the EoD1 flurry to see what I think about your point re WMU when I have more time.

Scum RBer makes sense

I kinda think moody having given up on the game makes sense from scum who's being brutally PoE'd.

I see moody plays :shrug:

[MathBlade]

I'm cool w that, if it's a mathb/moody dichotomy based on how heavily we want to rely on auto win tomorrow, we're probably gonna win. Lol.

I also just think moody is scum so I'm not gonna move my vote in a hurry.

Not seeing how Madge is town like at all.

I will not block them as you asked but if the game goes beyond today I will come for them barring some explanation that makes sense other than “it’s Townie paranoia” without one. I have explained the logical flaws numerous times and people don’t address those points. I feel like I am talking to brick walls.

I really think WMU/Madge are more likely scum but moody is in my PoE

vote moody

[xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx]

That's a pretty large Poe Math, how many scum do you think we have here?

[SuperJedi224]

Probably one, two is possible but less likely

[MathBlade]

That's a pretty large Poe Math, how many scum do you think we have here?

The PoE is accurate. To me, I have confirmed worst and Seven. Worst confirmed Jedi. Anyone else is possible to be scum. I think 1 group scum only.

[moody7277]

So here's what I gleaned from a readthrough of the 24 hours before end of D1.

WMU asks for case on Sabrar here
viewtopic.php?p=11702#p11702

WMU's first vote is for the worst
viewtopic.php?p=11747#p11747

bessie puts first vote on Sabrar at EoD -2 hours, wam follows bessie at -43 minutes, third vote is SJ at -39 minutes
vote by Wisp ties Sabrar with SJ at -21 minutes, me and Morgan switch votes to make a 5-5 tie between SJ and Sabrar.
Wisp unvotes at -17 minutes, votes SJ at -14 minutes

WMU says she'd sheep Wisp here
viewtopic.php?p=11795#p11795

Wisp revotes Sabrar at -10 minutes, WMU follows here viewtopic.php?p=11802#p11802 at -9 minutes

This is apparently WMU's response to Sabrar bargaining for his life
viewtopic.php?p=11808#p11808

So the theory is that if WMU and Sabrar were connected, she'd have voted SJ, probably wouldn't have made the point of sheeping Wisp. She does get a lot of credit for being the deciding vote elimming scum.

[madge]

okay i've had time to chill out (turns out having a neighbour to help you process events overnight is really good!)

@mathblade: paranoia is kind of my meta. i am always running worst case scenarios in my head. i keep coming back to how confident you are in everything, when i'm confused and lost and paranoid and i can think of a thousand* ways i'd use this roleblock power as scum and a million* ways that your roleblock can't help us as town (e.g. if there's a one-shot strongman). i am worried it's 75% OMGUS and 25% actual logic but I am really inclined to vote you today but the worst has me mostly convinced it is OMGUS so idk if i'd prefr WMU or not.

*note: not actually a thousand or a million

my 25% actual logic is that scum MB would be in a perfect place to cause a couple of mislims, it's swingy because he's in the crosshairs very quickly but with the town vig-analogue dead we're kinda stuck

@moody: why in the name of seven suns did you out us as lovers? we never suspected you weren't responsible for us.

@moody: THANK YOU i did need a friend and the worst has been a great friend

@Seven: my results talk about whether people "share an alignment". my understanding is a traitor wins when mafia wins, so they would not share an alignment with townies and would therefore be able to be examined by my results. whether "alignment" is the same as "win condition" might be a problem, i suspect they are.

RE moody: i've been thinking about it and outing us as lovers is a REAL JERK MOVE because it gives scum 2 for 1 (hey! any docs out there?), and making possible lovers (or possibly killing us outright - we were told that there was risk in choosing to keep or lose our chat which moody made sound deadly) seems like a nice thing for scum to do for easy pickings later on.

[xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx]

I am doctor.
I will be in Madge/the worst/Seven overnight

[xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx]

Math didn't answer me, a large Poe is scum indicative because they have the need to switch between their suspects when the thread receives new infos or the thread temperature makes impossibe a chop.

[xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx]

I also thought why on Earth was Moody exposing lovers like that

[madge]

Wisp was a quasi-doctor, too.

Given the nature of this game, do you care to share anything else about your role? I understand if there's details about how it works that you'd prefer not to share for obvious reasons but if you are literally claiming standard doctor we're voting you off like yesterday.

[Seven]

Madge it's probably best if she doesn't reveal that. Also can someone vote math so I can move my vote. I need to be off wagon this time.

[MathBlade]

That's a pretty large Poe Math, how many scum do you think we have here?

The PoE is accurate. To me, I have confirmed worst and Seven. Worst confirmed Jedi. Anyone else is possible to be scum. I think 1 group scum only.

I did answer re: my PoE.

My PoE is factual. I do not PoE based on reads. That’s who I am willing to elim which is subject to discussion.