Gojoe Memorial Mafia Thread

[moody7277]

Halloween 2021

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I so much wish I could counterclaim vig and take credit for killing the survivor role we've been fussing about all game. Or I could just say "fuck it" and come out as mafia which would let wam do a recruit kill. He'd most likely go under since there's plenty of evidence linking us, and Seven's already on top of us as a team, but that would be D5 after he'd already done the deed.

I just had a thought that would make for a very evil mod. What if my supposed mafia teammate is the cult master. He says he hasn't been able to use his recruit because I'm still kicking, and the count has always been 1. I've done all the heavy lifting as scum. Something like this would be more Sabrar's idea I think (no offense Madge, he just that much more devious, recall Crossover mafia if you doubt his bona fides).

[Sabrar]

Halloween 2021

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@Sabrar how am I doing?

You were doing wonderfully, I was surprised when scum decided to kill you as it looked like LaserGuy was more often a consideration.

[jimbobmacdoodle]

Halloween 2021:

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Thinking about it more, it's possible the patzer/somitomi flips haven't happened yet because of the pending resurrection, to avoid some sort of unintended confirmation concerns, although that doesn't really explain Bessie's flip, unless resurrection comes before night kills (still doesn't fully explain it mind you).

LaserGuy rezzing me seems reasonable, and I don't see as coming from anyone but Town. Scum are probably aware that most players were hard town-reading me, and rezzing me for obfuscation just causes themselves issues.

Time for a bit of buddy analysis for Mafia-pair candidates.
D1: not Seven/somitomi or Seven/Suzaku (somitomi and Suzaku early-ish on the wagon).
Not moody/patzer (moody easily joined a counter wagon that pushed patzer, when there was a reasonable chance for it to work out).
Not wam/Seven (wam shoved the wagon towards heury when votes were tied).

D2: moody second to vote heury. Doesn't really rule out heury/moody team as could be attempt to garner town points if he thought his buddy was AWOL.
Patzer/Seven somewhat unlikely by patzer voting Seven rather than attempting to start a different wagon. Also, Seven voting patzer twice, including once after patzer's claim, when there was a viable alternate wagon (but see also somi/Seven comments).
Somitomi/Seven: I'd rule this out, due to Seven's vote on him risking starting a real wagon, but Seven is the kind of player that I wouldn't rule this out as bussing him.
Wam/patzer: seemingly locking in a patzer elimination, potentially twice, I think rules this out.
Moody/TSS: mostly ruled out by Moody's vote switch to TSS after the initial patzer wagon fell apart.
Moody/Seven: I could see Seven bussing here, whilst always planning on jumping off the wagon, if an alternative came up, so not ruling this out due to the late vote.

D3: fairly early moody vote on Seven I think is NAI in and of itself. The counter vote later on is the same, given Seven's propensity for bussing.
Somitomi/Seven, unlikely again: somitomi put a third vote on Seven, which is a long way towards a successful wagon, although there could have been an instruction to bus.
Wam voting moody then hopping off again when it became E-1 is somewhat suspicious, but not damning: they supposedly were just testing Seven.
Moody/somitomi unlikely, due to the vote putting somi at E-1. Moody could have voted someone else e.g. Seven, if he wanted to encourage a different wagon. He later did switch to Seven, which I think is more likely to rule out the Seven/moody partnership, given the surrounding context.

Ninja'ed by being resurrected, but posting here to avoid losing it in an unfortunate copy/paste accident.

[madge]

Halloween

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Our flip philosophy is kind of muddled, unfortunately.

At the moment nobody currently dead can be rezzed, so they should technically flip.

However, the last remaining rez is a mafia rez-kill, where they kill and the dead resurrects at noon but as a member of the mafia.

We don't want that to be too obvious, so Sabrar was of the opinion that we don't flip until the rezkill is used up. I could see everyone becoming restless in spoilers and wanted things to be morE FUN, so I wanted to flip as soon as possible.

In the end, we've decided on flipping with a delay of at least one Day, as a compromise.

Also sets a precedent for future games, that maybe we might do something counterintuitive/illogical like this, which sets paranoia, and my favourite thing about modding is seeing players be paranoid about what we've done to them

[madge]

Halloween

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oh my god, is town going to vote for Seven? Really? Right in front of my salad???

YOU GUYS ARE SO CLOSE. You are consistently listing the three remaining scum as your top reads.

omfg

that said surprised moody isn't coming out with his result. I guess he'll tell Wam tonight and they can kill him if they need to.

also, funny assumptions/biases town has:
- the phoenix power name is not a valid power name because it's also a role name. i couldn't think of a powername for phoenix, it's a self-resurrecting one-shot-permakill-on-rez townie. Sounds thematically like a phoenix to me given I have nothing better to call it

- cryonicist would have a power role. in retrospect we probably should have given that slot something to help them survive, or at least a standard town role for claim purposes.

- there was something else but i've forgotten it

[moody7277]

Halloween 2021

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Of course I know that jimbob was the NK N2, I'm the one that did it.

I've also had a roleclaim sitting in a notepad for a little over a day waiting if someone got more intense about wanting it.
Just in case game ends before I use it, here it is:

I am Jarylo, Eastern European fertility god. I just want to spread the love and get those two crazy cats Madge and Sabrar back together and *ahem* be fertile. I have a cult cop, because in Soviet Russia party can always find you. Results:

N1: LaserGuy not cult
N2: Boomfrog not cult
N3: Zenni not cult

Role name and some of the description is real, with some ideas in it snagged from Madge's gloss on the role. Obviously I am not a cult cop, but those are the three players are who I used my rolecop on, just in case of trackers. Results from that have been interesting, less role names as I was expecting and more attributes that role has such as "Protective and Investigative" or "Voting and Special".

[jimbobmacdoodle]

Halloween 2021:

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If Zenii is Town, well done scum for getting Town to leet two cops!

Who to Watch? I think I'm best off trying to spot a killer rather than a recruiter, but I think the logic is fairly similar for both. It's possible the recruits are more limited too.
Seven: not going to be the NK - too much groupthink around them being Mafia.
Suzaku: possible recruit, but I don't think he's a NK target, because Suzaku hasn't been that active and also Mafia might want to push the somi/Suzaku Cult theory.
Moody: I don't see this happening for recruit or kill - moody seems to be high on most people's scum lists, so killing him would just remove a good misleet opportunity. This is especially the case if Seven is Mafia. However, it's possible Mafia think Cult are the greater threat.
Wam: plausible, but removing him does rule out a moody/wam team, and indeed, most other scum teams that I've considered.
LaserGuy: seems the obvious target to me. The double vote is just too powerful come end game, unless scum is convinced they can mislead him.
Me: not much I can do about it if I'm the target.

I'm loathe to stake out the same player twice, but I think it makes the most sense.

[madge]

Halloween 21

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I feel like I've really failed people because this game hasn't been enjoyable as we'd all hoped.

I'm especially disappointed because cult leader was yeeted, and has a one-shot kill immunity that will be used now (thematic with rolename). Cult number will go down to 0, 2/3 of mafia's NK targets will flip and alignment will be known, so zenni will get quickyeeted immediately upon rezzing. i might make the next day very, very short (48 hours) and call noon after like 8-10 hours.

I hope town uses the opportunity to realise that they are boned, tho: they *need* to get mafia, they haven't killed a single mafioso (no way of knowing though, but I guess they know there's at least one) and trust mafia to kill the rezzed cultist during the night (oh shit unless there's a recruit to worry about). But I think Town needs to tell mafia to NK the cult and try to yeet mafia. Otherwise... I think they lose

day start:

2/2/0

mid day:

2/2/1

yeah, town actually can't yeet the cultist or they go to 2/2/0. If Laserguy lives, though, town still controls the vote as it's three votes to two.

... probably best to give them a full three day Day, so they can realise this and sort it out.

[boomfrog]

Halloween 21

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I feel like I've really failed people because this game hasn't been enjoyable as we'd all hoped.

I'm especially disappointed because cult leader was yeeted, and has a one-shot kill immunity that will be used now (thematic with rolename). Cult number will go down to 0, 2/3 of mafia's NK targets will flip and alignment will be known, so zenni will get quickyeeted immediately upon rezzing. i might make the next day very, very short (48 hours) and call noon after like 8-10 hours.

I hope town uses the opportunity to realise that they are boned, tho: they *need* to get mafia, they haven't killed a single mafioso (no way of knowing though, but I guess they know there's at least one) and trust mafia to kill the rezzed cultist during the night (oh shit unless there's a recruit to worry about). But I think Town needs to tell mafia to NK the cult and try to yeet mafia. Otherwise... I think they lose

day start:

2/2/0

mid day:

2/2/1

yeah, town actually can't yeet the cultist or they go to 2/2/0. If Laserguy lives, though, town still controls the vote as it's three votes to two.

... probably best to give them a full three day Day, so they can realise this and sort it out.

Halloween 2021 @Madge

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I understand the desire to guide things to more fun, but it is improper to set the length of the day based on what helps one faction or another. Because once you open that door once, now even the timing of deadline will be open for interpretation as a clue. If autoyeeting the cult leader was the right call, it's still up to the players to make it a short Day if they want to. Short deadline always help scum and long deadlines help town (unless they get way too long). You should ideally have a plan for Day length planned at the start of the game and stick to it. Or at least a rough idea, like "shorter Days as days go on".

Btw, I thought the game was fun. It was an interesting experiment in a new design space. My recommended tweak for next time would be that flips happen one Day cycle after the elimination. And instead of a Cult Count just say that alignment changes will be broadcast and if someone is recruited say something like, "1 player has had their alignment changed." Or just have cult count include the temporarily eliminated.

[madge]

Halloween @ BoomFrog

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Yeah, you're right. FWIW day lengths last week were based around when I had like an hour or two to myself! Which is why they were a bit all over the place...

Next day will be about 3 days. It may be the last one, too!

[Suzaku]

Halloween mafia

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why did suzkaku quote me. Paranoia is spiking!

Halloween

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Sorry, didn't realise you get notifications for quotes

[jimbobmacdoodle]

Halloween 2021:

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That's got to go down as one of the shortest non-lim or lose days ever!

I realised whilst in the shower we should have at least waited a bit to give wam a chance to claim results, but oh well.

[madge]

Halloween @ Boomfrog

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good thing i didn't shorten this day phase, i would have really put my finger on the scale and favoured a town win

yes dw i know this is integrity in general

this is exciting. going to be a pretty clean endgame. i assume town will quickyeet.

[moody7277]

Halloween 2021

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The whole friggin D5 played out while I was asleep. The answer to Seven's post quoting me was you can't vote for dead people, but that is really moot now. So, I just killed Laser, and it will be me, Seven, and jimbob in a 3-person ELO. I'll be voting her, she'll be voting me, and we'll see how long it takes jimbob to decide.

[jimbobmacdoodle]

Halloween 2021:

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That's at least twice this game posts have been made post-hammer...

Okay, so assume that town can still win and Zeniba is Cult Leader, because if not, it doesn't matter what I do.

Setup is currently either 4-0-1, 3-1-1, or 2-2-1.

For 4-0-1, it would require two mafia members dead but not flipped. I believe only wam is in this situation, therefore we are not in this situation.

Worst case, Zeniba recruits and Mafia kills town. That puts us at either 1-1-2 or 0-2-2. If the latter, I am dead or no longer Town, so it doesn't matter. If the former, assume I am the 1 Town. It doesn't matter because I cannot win outright (no elim D6 or Cult wins, followed by NK of Zeniba puts us at 1-1-1, and either Cult recruit joins me in voting Mafia, or Mafia wins). Note to self: mod question to ask whether Cult can win in a 1 v 1 against Town if no kills or recruit. Overall, assume not worst case.

Assume next that recruit fails, but kill hits town, leaving us at either 2-1-1 or 1-2-1. If the latter, Mafia wins, so let's ignore it. In 2-1-1, either we eliminate Mafia, leaving us at 2-0-1, with Zeniba potentially able to recruit again. If she fails, town wins, otherwise cult wins. Assume she fails again. Therefore, I'd need to find Mafia with my tracker in this case.

Assume kill fails for some reason but recruit succeeds, leaving at 2-1-2 or 1-2-2. If the former, we eliminate Mafia and lose or in a 2v2. If town!LaserGuy is alive, we eliminate Zeniba, leaving us at 2v1. Identifying the mafia in this case would be useful. If the former and we eliminate cult leader, we are in 2-1-1. NK will put us at either 1-1-1 (so see earlier logic) or 2-1-0, in which case identifying Mafia would help me pick the right D7 elimination target. Conclusion: in both cases, I need to identify Mafia. If the latter, I don't think Town can win.

Assume both kill and recruit fail, then we're in 2-2-1 or 3-1-1. If the former, we eliminate Mafia or lose (mafia kill Zeniba N6 probably). Therefore, identifying Mafia would be helpful, although sporting them is harder if no kill. In this case, I hope to catch someone in a lie. 3-1-1 means we eliminate Cult Leader, then we end up, worst case, in 2-1, and still spotting Mafia is useful.

Conclusion, I think in every situation, spotting the mafia killer is more useful than identifying who Zeniba recruited.

Zeniba: almost certainly Cult Leader. Tracking her would make sense to identify the cult recruit, but not Mafia.
LaserGuy: still 99% certain he's town. If not, I don't think Town can win, as his double vote will be mostly impossible to overcome.
Seven: I've already said that I think Seven is likely town, so tracking him would only serve to confirm this.
Moody: by PoE, moody is likely Mafia. If I track him and there is a kill, I know he is likely Mafia. If I track him and he doesn't target the kill, I can confirm he didn't perform the kill. Given that every situation with 2 Mafia likely leads to a town loss, I can therefore assume he's not Mafia.

Taking another tack let's assume that we can identify Mafia without my ability. In that case, tracking the cult leader will spot the recruit. Without any indication of when a recruit will succeed, a failed recruit won't tell me anything useful. If there is a successful recruit, it will either be LaserGuy (in which case we will lose or LaserGuy will lose his double vote, and we'll be able to test this), me (in which case it doesn't matter) or one of the two possible remaining mafia candidates. In other words, ruling out or confirming one of those two candidates as Mafia by tracking them will be enough instead, as a successful recruit will mean the other is a Cult (once LaserGuy has confirmed his double vote).

Grand conclusion: I track moody. I think all non-losing paths I've got solved with this (barring weirdnesses).

[Wam]

Halloween 2021

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Its annoying to be dead and unable to read spoilers

Not sure what rez powers are left but somehow feel I wont be rezzed

Edit I do have Phoenix in my role name is an inherent rez I dont know about too much too hope for?

[madge]

Halloween

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oh thank you moody i appreciate you coming out, it makes me so happy with anticipation omfg you have no idea

also, town screwed themselves when they failed t o yeet scum until D5.

[bessie]

Halloween

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oh thank you moody i appreciate you coming out, it makes me so happy with anticipation omfg you have no idea

also, town screwed themselves when they failed t o yeet scum until D5.

Halloween

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Hmmm. Seven is super devious. I think that if there is any loophole, Seven will find it.

[bessie]

Halloween 2021

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@Sabrar how am I doing?

You were doing wonderfully, I was surprised when scum decided to kill you as it looked like LaserGuy was more often a consideration.

Halloween

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Yeah we finally found moody and got him back in the group and he's already pissing me off!

Nice to know things are back to normal already!

[madge]

Halloween

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god's eye view: no yeet

we're at 2-1-1

mafia kills town, cult recruits: 0-1-2, cult win

mafia kills town, cult recruit fails: 1-1-1, kingmaker, but mafia will if no yeet again (becomes 0-1-1 as kill gets priority, then NLim, then scum NKs cult; or just 1-1-0 mafia wins normally)

mafia kills cult: 2-1-0, town lims mafia, town win

mafia won't kill cult, though, because it assures town win. they have to kill town, and if they don't target the same person cult does, they lose.

yeeting mafia/cult just kingmakes the other faction. cult will recruit. mafia goes from 2-1-0 to 1-1-0 and wins.

I hope Seven finds a way out of this.

[bessie]

Halloween 21

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I feel like I've really failed people because this game hasn't been enjoyable as we'd all hoped.

Halloween

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Why would you think this?? This is not the case at all. Is Sabrar being pouty in mod chat or something because he misses playing with me me me?

[madge]

Halloween 21

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I feel like I've really failed people because this game hasn't been enjoyable as we'd all hoped.

Halloween

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Why would you think this?? This is not the case at all. Is Sabrar being pouty in mod chat or something because he misses playing with me me me?

hall

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nah because peopple have been whining in spoilers about the lack of flips (rightly so i'd be frustrated lol)

ALSO BECAUSE I WAS WORRIED YOU HATED YOUR ROLE ASSIGNMENT PLS TELL ME YOU DIDN"T MIND IT i thought you were playing so good

[bessie]

hall

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nah because peopple have been whining in spoilers about the lack of flips (rightly so i'd be frustrated lol)

ALSO BECAUSE I WAS WORRIED YOU HATED YOUR ROLE ASSIGNMENT PLS TELL ME YOU DIDN"T MIND IT i thought you were playing so good

Halloween

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Any issues with game mechanics are not your fault. That's all on Sabrar.

I was not particularly unhappy with my role and hey I almost won this game.

More thoughts on game mechanics post game. I have a new job so time has been really tight, moreso than usual. That's why my posting was sparse, even for me.

[Sabrar]

Halloween

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Is Sabrar being pouty in mod chat or something because he misses playing with me me me?

Nah, I'm just having very little time to spend on the game and I let Madge do all the heavy work.

[madge]

Halloween

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Is Sabrar being pouty in mod chat or something because he misses playing with me me me?

Nah, I'm just having very little time to spend on the game and I let Madge do all the heavy work.

halloween

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yes, let, because i have been SO EAGER to do it lol

no it's been fine i'm just glad there was no quickhammer when i was at theatre those were like 12 hour days and i would have had no shot

this was like "hey hon can you walk the dog i have mafia chores to do"