Trust Fall Mafia - Day 2

[heuristically_alone]

I don't recall dropping my Kay read. It's always been at the bottom. Though my Kay, Greedy, Mak reads I really don't have a reason to have one above or below the other as reading them all bottom for lack or reactions, theory being scum in this format would want to ensure all their posts are towny as possible and a scummy reaction can't be read as scummy if there isn't a reaction made. That and I'm terrified of Mak.

[KayJayQueue]

I don't recall dropping my Kay read. It's always been at the bottom. Though my Kay, Greedy, Mak reads I really don't have a reason to have one above or below the other as reading them all bottom for lack or reactions, theory being scum in this format would want to ensure all their posts are towny as possible and a scummy reaction can't be read as scummy if there isn't a reaction made. That and I'm terrified of Mak.

So you’re saying my posts have all been towny therefore you think I’m scum? And that you feel I’m interchangeable with greedy and you think his posts are all towny as well?

That’s very interesting. Also a bit lazy from my perspective lol thank you for answering but I did hope for a bit more analysis.

[Deadbananas0]

Gotcha Heury, I thought drop because of this post where you had a "very very slight scum lean" on them, with others lower. Then this post you give Kay town points. next time you mention kay is this reads list where they are at the bottom. I was wondering what progressed there.

[moody7277]

On the underlined, what do you make of Mak also being seemingly pretty aggressive about wanting to exit the game?

Since both town and scum want to fall out, the intent itself is NAI. On the scum side, wanting to get out while reads are still forming would be a sound strategy and lead to wanting an early exit. On the town side, it would be better if players who are just barely seen as town to leave so the endgame can include the most town read players. Your aggregate would seem to contradict what I figured about Mak not fitting with that second category. In my readthrough of you, you also seemed concerned with scum playing a long con.

[Bop]

Welcome back, Bop. I need you to reconsider Moody. I'm no longer comfortable with them falling out.

Sorry, was mid trying to do a post by post and got pulled away.

Half-finished post by post below(haven't read his most recent reads yet)

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Moody quick re-read (itatlics are my main takeaways)

1st post: Intro post (abt no intro posts and no RVS, discussion of what that means for bessie, only thing that stands out is heury’s random vote not mentioned, three posts in the game I’m willing to chalk up to)

2nd/3rd: Reacting to greedy’s “deal if you vote me post with a No Deal!(which god. What a game. Shoutout to televisions are arcade’s everywhere. Here’s the banker.) saying he doesn’t like the eager posts from heury/greedy. Neutral on Kay, Good on me, TBD on the rest. I appreciate putting opinions out there within half a page of play.

4th post: Post that says “putting db on the never vote list” for the is bessie in the game debacle. This has been discussed to death, I do think it's a barking up the wrong tree but I don't think aggressive scumreading for early play is as much a scumtell in this type of game.

5th: Agrees with my joke(misread as real opinion which is probably on my tone) that bessie is “locktrusted” putting Bessie as town. She hasn’t posted yet. That I maybe take issue with if only bc we couldn’t guarantee if bessie not voting wasn’t literally not having seen the thread/vote yet, but it gets mentioned in

6th: Comments that he didn’t think “locktrusted” was a joke, but bessie having not yet read the thread fully as of post 5 “may invalidate what I thought”. Likes EGW for heury opinion. Tells somi “Well, in this game my opinion doesn't stop anyone else who does trust deadbananas enough to fall with him from doing so.” If I’m looking for something shaky, this comment without an answer is probably the thing? (which somi calls out matter-of-factly as a deflection and asks again which it’s not a somi re-read but I do appreciate that)

7th: Give his explanation for post 4, says reads are coming.

8th: Gives reads that are so much what mine were, just in two categories instead of three and switching positions of mak and EGW (and posted earlier! I didn’t realize the extent of how well these matched when doing my reading) I mean, not that somebody coming to the same conclusions as me at around the same time is inherently a town tell, but it’s not pocketing because he posted that first.

That's as far as I got but better to get unfinished reads quick as the day is quickly moving forward and we need decisions sooner rather than later.

I can understand some people's hesitation (Kay's post here esp)

Welcome back, Bop. I need you to reconsider Moody. I'm no longer comfortable with them falling out.

I’m glad you feel this way at this point. I’m also not a fan of “I’m not helpful in the endgame, I guess I should just fall out *shrug*” (yes this is exaggerated, I’m being a bit sassy) after the low content/engagement.

I do agree that I don't like that rationale of "I wouldn't be seen as a good endgame player so maybe I'm a better early elim" but otherwise I don't think I've budged too much. "He's inactive" doesn't work for me as I don't think he's been any less active than I(I'd argue he's been more). His first reads list honestly mapped up with mine(and did so before mine to be clear, realized on the re-read how close those were) and while he's barked up some trees I disagree with(or at least the intensity of them, ie the is-bessie-in-the-game debacle and debate after) I don't think it puts moody low for me. I generally feel like what I'm seeing feels like townie moody-who I last saw in a game where he was mod confirmed to be so and still posting(tree stump situation). If people don't want him out yet and want more days to weigh their read on him, that's understandable, and luckily we're in a game where if you think somebody is scummy you can keep them around to see if their behavior proves you right or wrong, but I don't think I agree that he's been particularly scummy for me. If he dropped at all he's worst case in my "middling" catagory, but I have to be honest and say I'm seeing him as town, he seems on brand for me.(Obvs I don't have as much meta to go off of from one recent game and half remembered decade old ones) Now I'll catch up with the new page I've missed.

[EGW]

Moody: Is being active and giving good reads-but not trying too hard to lead convos. In this kind of game, trying to be a “lead townie” is more sus than a “reactive townie” and this to me is a good mix of what I’m looking for. Also, feels similarly to last game we played where he was fully mod confirmed town and still able to post.

I thought this was peculiar. He isn't playing similar to the previous game. In that game he had more presence, and did deep dives without prompting. Here he has been evasive and had a lack of desire to sort until prompted.

[Bop]

Aggregate since last aggregate (contains mine, Heury, Moody and Kay's most recent lists

Sorry, I must have missed it from the last one, can you explain what the numbers mean in your aggregate?

[Bop]

Moody: Is being active and giving good reads-but not trying too hard to lead convos. In this kind of game, trying to be a “lead townie” is more sus than a “reactive townie” and this to me is a good mix of what I’m looking for. Also, feels similarly to last game we played where he was fully mod confirmed town and still able to post.

I thought this was peculiar. He isn't playing similar to the previous game. In that game he had more presence, and did deep dives without prompting. Here he has been evasive and had a lack of desire to sort until prompted.

I remember that differently-I remember moments of people wanting more out of him without prompting and there being some frustration about that-but also as unkillable uber town, he was prompted often as his opinion we could trust fully as legitimate. But moody wasn't my focus so I'm willing to admit I could be misremembering?

[EGW]

He got lazy when he got confirmed town, but I'm speaking of Day 1 before he was confirmed town. I just looked today. Also do note that twice, he had not responded to Somi without my interference in this game.

[Bop]

He got lazy when he got confirmed town, but I'm speaking of Day 1 before he was confirmed town. I just looked today. Also do note that twice, he had not responded to Somi without my interference in this game.

Oh god I blocked out day 1 tales (handshake related trauma) but I give this question to you(bc I'm honestly curious). If you agree with me that this behavior rings true for the days after he was confirmed (Tales Day 2-5), but not before (Tales Day One), why are you weighting Day 1 as more critical to compare to than the days after?

[KayJayQueue]

If I've missed anything that needs directly responded to feel free to tag me about it, i'm about to go to bed but i'm not actively trying to ignore anything.

Hey today is the deadline. Reads? Thoughts? Opinions? Preferences?

[GreedyBanger]

Happy with any pair within Kay/Somi/Bessie/EGW

If one of those players want to dip into the tier below and feel confident about it i'd also be happy as long as they instigate it.

Feel sick with food poisoning, procrastinating my big reads list.

[Deadbananas0]

Aggregate since last aggregate (contains mine, Heury, Moody and Kay's most recent lists

Sorry, I must have missed it from the last one, can you explain what the numbers mean in your aggregate?

aggregates are 3 points if in someones top 3, 2 points of in someones middle 3, 1 point if in bottom. Mainly did it this way because people format reads list differently.

Could one of you link the moody game you are discussing?

[EGW]

Oh god I blocked out day 1 tales (handshake related trauma) but I give this question to you(bc I'm honestly curious). If you agree with me that this behavior rings true for the days after he was confirmed (Tales Day 2-5), but not before (Tales Day One), why are you weighting Day 1 as more critical to compare to than the days after?

Today is day 1, so it makes sense to compare that to that Day 1. Also he had no idea he'd be confirmed town that game, that was by pure chance. So it is natural to compare his day 1 there to here. So, he doesn't post as much during him being confirmed town, and compare that to here... but he isn't confirmed town here. I think being confirmed town allows a player to do whatever they like without fear of being suspected. But here the only reason I can surmise is due to being scum who doesn't have the desire to sort.

[EGW]

Could one of you link the moody game you are discussing?

Tales Mafia

[Bop]

Aggregate since last aggregate (contains mine, Heury, Moody and Kay's most recent lists

Sorry, I must have missed it from the last one, can you explain what the numbers mean in your aggregate?

aggregates are 3 points if in someones top 3, 2 points of in someones middle 3, 1 point if in bottom. Mainly did it this way because people format reads list differently.

Could one of you link the moody game you are discussing?

Thank you!

And here: https://ramenchef.nfshost.com/nxf/viewt ... 76121f5cfb It was this year's Tales game

[Deadbananas0]

The timing on kay and greedy lol. Feel better Greedy, I appreciate the thoughts, when you get the time/feel better could you respond to my question here: viewtopic.php?p=93149#p93149.

[EGW]

Therefore I believe Moody should be put in the never vote pile now.

[GreedyBanger]

Greedy, I get not feeling pressed about being townread today, but are you comfortable with the current people likely to leave today? It feels odd to not really have an opinion at all on trying to analyze people today just because you aren't leaving, especially if you think people are broadly making a mistake on you.

1. Town finds town at way above expected EV. Townfinding games are always massively townsided. I think day 1 of trust fall that goes to deadline is almost always gonna be a town/town fall as long as nobody gets out of line. I think the pair is always going to be 2 of my elite 4 or one of them going out on a limb for a hot take. I'm cool with either.

2. Taking more of a back seat today lets me form opinions for day 2 without getting in the weeds. Were I active I would be reaction testing and pressuring and too often in these circumstances do I start drinking my own kool aid on reads that i was only ever half sure about and pushing for info. I can get townread in a hurry if I want to, im pretty sure of that even with new people. If that's all the game was (if I were scum) then I would probably be going out for it. But I need to read YOU guys which I am worse at and that needs more time.

[Bop]

Oh god I blocked out day 1 tales (handshake related trauma) but I give this question to you(bc I'm honestly curious). If you agree with me that this behavior rings true for the days after he was confirmed (Tales Day 2-5), but not before (Tales Day One), why are you weighting Day 1 as more critical to compare to than the days after?

Today is day 1, so it makes sense to compare that to that Day 1. Also he had no idea he'd be confirmed town that game, that was by pure chance. So it is natural to compare his day 1 there to here. So, he doesn't post as much during him being confirmed town, and compare that to here... but he isn't confirmed town here. I think being confirmed town allows a player to do whatever they like without fear of being suspected. But here the only reason I can surmise is due to being scum who doesn't have the desire to sort.

I can understand where you're getting your viewpoint at least. I just disagree on the behaviors of the later days being less important. I'm willing to budge on putting moody out of the running today to get more time and more evidence to sort him for either of us, but I don't agree with him feeling like he doesn't have a desire to sort. Which is annoying as everyone I trust doesn't trust him, but that doesn't inherently change how I read him. _{But oh god am I really gonna have to re-read tales D1}

[EGW]

Another concern I have is you placing Moody in the same section as myself and Kay, and then pushing him as a candidate to fall compared to Somi.

[Bop]

Another concern I have is you placing Moody in the same section as myself and Kay, and then pushing him as a candidate to fall compared to Somi.

Fair concern when you don't trust him! Although, again, last game proved that you and I can read things pretty differently even when directly private chat level working together. And I put him above Somi but I'm on the record as fine if Somi falls generally-I maintain that I'm happy with my big 4 I'm just in the situation that 2/4 of them want to stay to solve and a 1/4 is mostly mistrusted.

[KayJayQueue]

The timing on kay and greedy lol. Feel better Greedy, I appreciate the thoughts, when you get the time/feel better could you respond to my question here: viewtopic.php?p=93149#p93149.

What’s wrong with the timing? I quoted him in hopes it would alert him, is that not how it works?

[Deadbananas0]

Nothing wrong on timing, didn't intend to shade in anyway. I just found it funny it was exact, maybe my notification settings are different.

[EGW]

I may be paranoid but I’m not sure how genuine I feel bananas progression on me is.

I think he's paranoid town. To be fair he did ask me his thoughts on you and he did feel like the reasoning was good and it helped sway him. Plus I did suggest to him to re-read when he stated he was lost. I also find his poking of Mak townie. I think he likely doesn't fear any of our voices if he's willing to poke at me and Mak. I think as long as we never vote Moody, town should be in a good spot. However, I have doubts of Bop now. Thoughts of our recent discussion? (Bop and Me)