Halloween Mafia 2021 - The Party Trap - Day 7

[Seven]

Yeah it says my rolename is Phoenix. There's no explicit flavor name.

[Wam]

NOTE: I stuffed up a certain number of the PMs and didn't give people explicit rolenames. I have decided to keep the error in the interest of fairness and send everyone their rolename in a seperate PM.

@ seven just checking you saw the above?

[Seven]

Ah I see. Yeah I didn't get the second pm. Jus the first they sent heury

[somitomi]

Somi that was freaking beautiful (albeit incorrect). Still, high-quality post and reasoning.

Care to elaborate on why it's incorrect?

[Seven]

Somi that was freaking beautiful (albeit incorrect). Still, high-quality post and reasoning.

Care to elaborate on why it's incorrect?

Just the fact that I'm town.

[moody7277]

Been monitoring the thread. Wam's reactions in the wam-7en dustup have been a bit odd, worth taking him down to about a -1 rating. I'm still perfectly happy voting for the ersatz SK though.

[somitomi]

Out of my head, six months showered clean and set

[somitomi]

Out of my head, six months showered clean and set

Ignore this, I mixed up my tabs

[Seven]

Ping

What form do your results come in? Does it say whether a person is mafia/not mafia or does it specifically tell you if someone is town?

[Seven]

I said earlier that one of somi's posts was a partner slip for him and Sniper, but I don't really think they are the mafia team after thinking about it some more. I just poke at things to see how the accused respond to the idea. (Hence why my play is often viewed as erratic, a la WWZ). I am 95% sure though that moody is mafia. I am also 95% sure that Wam is scum and think it is highly likely that he is mafia as well.

With regard to moody, in this post below he is voting me for the wrong reasons.

Been monitoring the thread. Wam's reactions in the wam-7en dustup have been a bit odd, worth taking him down to about a -1 rating. I'm still perfectly happy voting for the ersatz SK though.

If I am scum, at this point, it is likely that I am mafia considering Snipers results, but he is still treating me as if I'm SURVIVOR (what he's been referring to as am ersatz SK).

Less condemning but still scum-logic in my view is this post from day 1:

@moody, you have wam as negative? Why?

Someone on here said (LG or BF I think) that wam's meta was a default read of slightly scummy, which kinda matches up with my hazy 2+ year old recollections. A rating of -0.5 would follow on from that and a neutral reading on someone I have experience with, as opposed to the flat zeros I gave for the players I don't have a notebook on (metaphorically speaking, not an actual notebook like bessie has).

Moody was saying that in actuality he had Wam as 0, but he made it negative because someone said that Wam plays scummy day 1. This makes no sense.

[Seven]

To be honest, I think I'm losing interest in this game. Even a simple reads list can take me hours to make, and I'm having trouble working up the motivation to spend that kind of time. I'd quit outright, but because of my power role doing so would leave the town at a disadvantage.

Since you have no interest/investment could you possibly try to find a replacement?

[The Snide Sniper]

To be honest, I think I'm losing interest in this game. Even a simple reads list can take me hours to make, and I'm having trouble working up the motivation to spend that kind of time. I'd quit outright, but because of my power role doing so would leave the town at a disadvantage.

Since you have no interest/investment could you possibly try to find a replacement?

I would, but you already replaced heury.

[Seven]

To be honest, I think I'm losing interest in this game. Even a simple reads list can take me hours to make, and I'm having trouble working up the motivation to spend that kind of time. I'd quit outright, but because of my power role doing so would leave the town at a disadvantage.

Since you have no interest/investment could you possibly try to find a replacement?

I would, but you already replaced heury.

That's no problem, games often have multiple replacements. It's just a matter of if you can find someone willing.

[bessie]

Daily catch up.

There's nothing to defend against. You're making a claim that Jim killed boom. I know that's not the case so would like to try and sort what is going on. I've been resigned to being eliminated ever since I truthfully claimed my role.

Interesting. You are role fishing so that jimbob could have his explanation ready if he is resurrected.

Goddammit, I am catching up right now.
I was under the impression that using OOG information like this is generally frowned upon

Sorry, I’m using xkcd convention, where you chose not to have your status hidden, so I can see you are reading the thread when I am also online. I would not use posting in a different thread on the forum against you I would consider that OOG. But this is something we can probably discuss as a group after the game. For the remainder of the game I won’t refer to your online status again.

My understanding is that PGO is a passive ability. JoaT utilizes active abilities. Sniper is either insane or he and somi are simply Mafia. I think moody is the most reliable hit, however based on Booms play. And I don't think I trust laser.

I’m think I’ve played a game where the player had to decide to activate the ability because it couldn’t be used on consecutive nights.

Also, doesn't a PGO survive whatever the person interacting with them does?

That’s why I specified strongmen.


@Seven, so why did you think you needed me to claim to write this post? You did a pretty thorough job without my claim.
Note: [/sarcasm]

btw the fact that the cult hasn't yet increased is making me think there might be some arsonist-like mechanic going on wherein the cult leader is tagging people to have them join the cult in one massive triggering event.

The reason I don’t think this is true is that there was an arsonist in Madge and Sabrar’s last game (Brooklyn 99) and I don’t think they would use something so similar two games in a row. Would show lack of creativity and unworthy of their skill as mods.
@Sabrar @Madge

Biggest stand out (modulo the Boom kill claim) is bessie and her theory on the second kill.
My understanding of her theory (@bessie - If I misstate you, please correct)
　jimbob is Mafia and had a non-ressurectable kill. (I'm interpreting Strongman this way as it make sense from both the theory and the fact that Boom instaflipped).
　Boom had a PGO as one of his JOAT powers and used it last night.
　jimbob killed Boom, got taken out by the PGO, Seven claimed she shot boom to cover for jim in the hope that jim would be rezzed.

Yes.

Occam's razor says this is less likely than scum!Seven shooting Boom, so I'm interested in hearing the reasons bessie believes it.

Do you really think it’s more likely that mafia had a vig shot in addition to an every night kill??

@The Snide Sniper: I know what you mean about being overwhelmed by a game. Sorry you feel that way.
Can you clarify what your cop power detects?

@Snide Sniper, like others, I would also like to know what your role detects. What is the format you your results? Like how pater claimed her results were mafia or not-mafia.

No, we don't have any specific attachment.

sad bessie.PNG (86.85 KiB) Viewed 5322 times

Then why do you think Jimbob is mafia? That's the kind of absurd overthinking I'd find from me or bessie, but not you.

ok fine.PNG (85.86 KiB) Viewed 5322 times

Sorry for all the posts, I just need to go study and want to get all my thoughts out there in case I'm quick hammered while gone: but I looked up town of salem roles and they have a cult-equivalent, the coven. So Sniper's confusion about the cult being a separate faction from the mafia Day 1 (I think it was like page 1 or 2) is off because the mafia team is a separate faction there too.

Interesting that you didn’t think to look up the PGO or militant atheist roles on MafiaScum or Mafia Universe. /s

I was thinking about this on my way to the grocery store when I realised this is so wrong on every level there's no way that Boomfrog kill came from town-Seven.

Wow nice post. I must remember this next time you claim you aren’t capable of post of this high quality.

Been monitoring the thread. Wam's reactions in the wam-7en dustup have been a bit odd, worth taking him down to about a -1 rating. I'm still perfectly happy voting for the ersatz SK though.

Odd how? Like how specifically for Wam?

I would, but you already replaced heury.

I really really appreciate that you did not abandon the game outright. We’re not asking you anymore for reads and analysis, but we could use a response to the questions about your role.

Also Seven is correct, unfortunately sometimes games need multiple replacements. We’ve never had a very large player pool on xkcd, but you could ask Madge and Sabrar if they can find someone. You shouldn’t have to keep playing if you aren’t having fun (though again I appreciate you not abandoning).

[Seven]

This is my final read list and legacy unless some new information comes up.

Town
Seven: Phoenix
BoomFrog: Ellen Ripley, town Jack of All Trades
jimbob

bessie
the snide sniper

Lean Good

somitomi - Possible cult leader (resurrectionist)

suzaku - Town or Survivor

---

Lean Bad
laserguy - Possible cult leader (instinct)

Survivor or Town: patzer

Mafia
moody7277
wam


Details

I think the case for town Jim and for scum moody are both strong, and that upon my flip the jim case is irrefutable.

Jim Case:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Jim - Is not survivor because he is playing with too much gust and not afraid to be night killed. Is not cult for the same reason. So Jim as scum is mafia only. However, Jim was resistant to eliminating Pat at the EoD rather than taking the opportunity to eliminate a mafia cop; therefore, Jim is not mafia either.

Moody Case:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Been monitoring the thread. Wam's reactions in the wam-7en dustup have been a bit odd, worth taking him down to about a -1 rating. I'm still perfectly happy voting for the ersatz SK though.

If I am scum, at this point, it is likely that I am mafia considering Snipers results, but he is still treating me as if I'm SURVIVOR (what he's been referring to as am ersatz SK).

Keep in mind that this was Boom's legacy read as well. Bessie, you've mentioned before about how people never listen to dead town. This is a prime example of when you should.

For why I think Wam is scum, I implore you to look over his evaluation of me on page 24 and my responses outlining how he was misrepresenting me. He was pushing an agenda here, my elimination, not trying to solve me.

My read on bessie is as it was going into N2.

Bessie - Has been very open with her speculations even when they are a long shot (such as testing to see if there was a militant atheist (I don't know what that is btw)). Bessie as scum keeps this sort of speculation close to the vest/in scum chats.

Sorry I can't be more helpful here, she's just kind of obv town.

I think both The Snide Sniper and Patzer's roles are true. Mafia has some sort of manipulation role to combat this, like the fabricator variant that was in the Wolf on Wall Street. I think this is the most reasonable explanation for Sniper's result on me. Hopefully, it means his result on Somi is probably true. We need him to confirm that the format of his results is how he put it though. That is, that he specifically got a Town result on Somi.

For that reason I think Somi is town. The only concern here is that his role, resurrectionist, is an attractive cult leader candidate. However, we can rule this out in two ways: 1) the cult still only has 1 or fewer members at the start of Day 4 (assuming somi and suzaku are both alive then). This would confirm that Somi did not recruit Suzaku. Note, however, that the reverse is not true: the cult number increasing by 1 does not prove that Somi is indeed a cult. 2) We get verification that Snide's result does indeed come in the "Town" format.

The middle three players—Suzaku, Laser, and Pat—I am unsure on. Suzaku is as null as it gets. And while I think Patzer's and Sniper's abilities are both true, I don't think they exist as the same faction. We know Patzer isn't the cult leader, so she is probably Survivor. Laserguy is my pick for Cult leader. He just smells indie to me and I think he is pandering to bessie with his latest mafia picks. Actually, thinking about it, if Somi is verified as Town, then logically only LaserGuy can be the cult leader because we know Suzaku and Patzer are not.

Vote: Moody

[The Snide Sniper]

My ability reports the faction (i.e. town, mafia, cult, or survivor) of the targeted player, I'm guessing with some exceptions like a godfather or a framer.

[bessie]

Keep in mind that this was Boom's legacy read as well. Bessie, you've mentioned before about how people never listen to dead town. This is a prime example of when you should.

Let me think about it and reread then both. But I need to get some sleep tonight because I have to be at work an hour early tomorrow.

My ability reports the faction (i.e. town, mafia, cult, or survivor) of the targeted player, I'm guessing with some exceptions like a godfather or a framer.

This... seems like a very strong role for this game.

[Suzaku]

Unofficial Votals:
Seven (3) - wam, moody, somitomi
Moody (1) - Seven

Not voting: bessie, laserguy, suzaku, the snide sniper

Dusk starts in just under 3 days.

Seven is at E-2

Occam's razor says this is less likely than scum!Seven shooting Boom, so I'm interested in hearing the reasons bessie believes it.

Do you really think it’s more likely that mafia had a vig shot in addition to an every night kill??

No, I believe that it's more likely jimbob (town, or at least non-Mafia) was the victim of the Mafia NK, and that scum_but_not_Mafia!Seven shot boom as claimed.
Despite her protests, I still believe (pending a detailed reread later today) that it's likely Seven is the Anti-social Survivor.
Unless you can show me why Mafia!jimbob is more likely.

OTOH, even if jimbob is some kind of scum, we can't do anything about that today (unless there's a day vig for dead players), so either Seven is Mafia with jim, and we should elim her, or she's the survivor, and we should elim her. It's possible she's town, of course, and we shouldn't elim her, but as I've said it would take some convincing for me to believe that.

[Wam]

Was how I felt about seven last night! Realised I was over reacting and walked away.

[Wam]

vote moody

[Suzaku]

@wam
What changed your mid?

[Suzaku]

EBWOP s/mid/mind/

[Wam]

@wam
What changed your mid?

Will explain later today

[Wam]

@ seven

I'm struggling to reconcile these two posts in succession

Theory

Pat - Survivor
Wam - Mafia
TSS - Mafia
Somi - Cultist

I change my mind on Wam, Laser. I think that quote of his read on you in particular is off. I think Pat is survivor because she is doing a lot of talking without really moving the game forward. Like the mechanical analysis thing with the wrong numbers. It's busy work on the surface but doesn't actually help because it's the wrong numbers. @Pat please acknowledge that there are 11 players and that your mech analysis was off. Another thing is the not knowing that there is a cult/that cult recruits. Boom explained what a cult does one page 2 here: viewtopic.php?p=6949#p6949 so she should have known that it was the alignment converting role she was seeking. The whole thing to me just reads to me as her trying to present herself as a non-threat to mafia while at the same time trying to appear to be doing townie work.

With

Swings to a bottom 4 of


Pat - Survivor
Wam - Mafia
TSS - Mafia
Somi - Cultist

This was NOT my bottom 4. You completely removed the line that said "Theory." This was just me running through possible scenarios. -1 jeez wam the misrep is not looking good, are you actually just scum here?

If that wasnt your bottom 4 at the time why was the next post explaining your reads of me and pat as scummy. Can you elaborate?

[Wam]

@wam
What changed your mid?

Will explain later today

Small change I would like an answer from seven to the above first .