Halloween Mafia 2021 - The Party Trap - Day 7

[Seven]

Bessie you should claim your role so I can tell you why you're wrong.

Ok I'll claim.



Hahahahaha just kidding.


Why do you need to know my role to defend yourself?

There's nothing to defend against. You're making a claim that Jim killed boom. I know that's not the case so would like to try and sort what is going on. I've been resigned to being eliminated ever since I truthfully claimed my role.

[Seven]

I'm assuming bessie meant a 1 night pgo.

How would that even work

I'm having a hard time believing someone with Seven's experience doesn't know how a PGO or a JOAT works.

Seven, how long will you need to work on your case of why I am mafia with The Snide Sniper?

You're not scum, but I won't be able to have a substantial post until Monday.

[somitomi]

Quickfire responses, because I haven't had dinner yet.

Somi I know you had to re read but gut call on patzer?

Moody you had chance to do your post by post? Also why is seven not in your votables?

Gut says patzer was mafia

Why is Wam Town?

His solving energy feels similar to WWZ

If you had Seven's vig shot, who would you have killed? @TheSnideSniper: Same question for you.

I'd say Seven unless I decided the insta-death shouldn't be used on someone who'd flip after their next death anyway. In that case I probably would've picked someone from my "to do" group

The lack of reading comprehension concerns me. When I said I didn't have long at the keyboard, I meant that those two sentences were all I was going to be able to bang out before heading out the door. Obviously Zen saying she vigged (or something lethal) boomfrog is interesting because town!Zen misaimed whereas scum!Zen is playing a very bold game with this. Your OMGUS for me calling you votable has been noted.

Just to be absolutely clear, did you see Seven's claim before posting that or not?
Your attempt to frame this as OMGUS has been noted.

How about you start posting some reads instead of sitting back and watching others give opinions?

The answer to this question is kind of important in evaluating Seven's actions.

To be honest, I think I'm losing interest in this game. Even a simple reads list can take me hours to make, and I'm having trouble working up the motivation to spend that kind of time. I'd quit outright, but because of my power role doing so would leave the town at a disadvantage.

Sorry to hear you're struggling, I'm often in the same boat so I can sympathise.

What does Phoenix cop mean?

Isn't "phoenix" the role modifier you have?

somitomi I saw you lurking. Now would be a good time to post.

Goddammit, I am catching up right now.
I was under the impression that using OOG information like this is generally frowned upon

Serious. I just struggle to see why jimbob would carry out the kill. If he gets seen going to the NK target its added risk irrespective of if he can talk his way out of it. Let seven carry it for now would be my attitude and plan. 2. Is the only scenario I would expect seven to carry out the kill.

In cas 4 even if that was true in that scenario I wouldnt think the risk is worth it.

I'm aware these are my views and people play in ways I wouldn't expect all the time!

If Jimbob has ninja, there's no risk for him in scenario four though. And he was/is widely townread, so he doesn't have to worry about being tracked too much even if he couldn't ninja it.

[Seven]

My understanding is that PGO is a passive ability. JoaT utilizes active abilities. Sniper is either insane or he and somi are simply Mafia. I think moody is the most reliable hit, however based on Booms play. And I don't think I trust laser.

[Seven]

@somi, no my role name is literally Phoenix. So I want to know if Sniper is a Phoenix and Cop or a Cop that looks for Phoenixes. If the latter, his guilty result could just be the fact that I am a Phoenix. If the former, that disproves the Zeneury is Survivor speculation.

[moody7277]

Okay, having both patzer and Snide claim cop is breaking my reality. Considering I've had both of them as scummy enough to vote for, it is still in the realm of possibility that both are lying, just different flavors. I imagine Snide claiming a mafia result on 7en is supposed to be a distraction from us doing a elim both tactic to get clarity.

Also, doesn't a PGO survive whatever the person interacting with them does?

Just to be absolutely clear, did you see Seven's claim before posting that or not?

I saw 7en claim to shoot boom. I had about five minutes before heading out the door, so other than a WTF? I didn't have time to run through all the implications.

My guess is "Phoenix Cop" means an officer in the Phoenix police department.

[The Snide Sniper]

By "Phoenix Cop" I mean a cop that resurrects after a nightkill.

[Wam]

Just NK or elimination as well?

[Wam]

My understanding is that PGO is a passive ability. JoaT utilizes active abilities. Sniper is either insane or he and somi are simply Mafia. I think moody is the most reliable hit, however based on Booms play. And I don't think I trust laser.

How high do you put the odds of snide being insane?

[Seven]

My understanding is that PGO is a passive ability. JoaT utilizes active abilities. Sniper is either insane or he and somi are simply Mafia. I think moody is the most reliable hit, however based on Booms play. And I don't think I trust laser.

How high do you put the odds of snide being insane?

Low, considering his two scum reads were Heury and Pat day 1 with somi above the scum line. Pretty sure they are just buds.

[LaserGuy]

On mobile so not going to quote big posts.

@bessie: I wanted to hear Seven's reasoning before speculating on obscure mechanics.

@Seven: FrozenFlame had a PGO that could be activated in Crossover. I'm sure I've seen this role in other games but none are immediately coming to mind (X-Men maybe?).

I've never seen an insane role in any xkcd game.

@moody, PGO often dies if they are targeted with a NK. Depends on the mechanics .

[somitomi]

I saw 7en claim to shoot boom. I had about five minutes before heading out the door, so other than a WTF? I didn't have time to run through all the implications.

So you went WTF and then thought the best use of your limited time is reiterating your bottom two from before?

@somi, no my role name is literally Phoenix. So I want to know if Sniper is a Phoenix and Cop or a Cop that looks for Phoenixes. If the latter, his guilty result could just be the fact that I am a Phoenix. If the former, that disproves the Zeneury is Survivor speculation.

Why do you think there'd be a cop that can check for your role specifically?

[Seven]

I saw 7en claim to shoot boom. I had about five minutes before heading out the door, so other than a WTF? I didn't have time to run through all the implications.

So you went WTF and then thought the best use of your limited time is reiterating your bottom two from before?

@somi, no my role name is literally Phoenix. So I want to know if Sniper is a Phoenix and Cop or a Cop that looks for Phoenixes. If the latter, his guilty result could just be the fact that I am a Phoenix. If the former, that disproves the Zeneury is Survivor speculation.

Why do you think there'd be a cop that can check for your role specifically?

I mentioned when I came into the game that I felt there were probably multiple phoenixes. Jimbob being one of them as he stated the possibility before I claimed.

[Seven]

Btw @mafia, if my understanding is correct (?), you automatically lose if you endgame town with survivor alive.

[moody7277]

@moody, PGO often dies if they are targeted with a NK. Depends on the mechanics .

My only personal experience with PGO was in the Munroe High School Halloween game when someone (Sabrar, IIRC) triggered it and then cheerleader!dimochka aka the frakking SK got me after it had been used up.

[moody7277]

Actually, there was a game in which I played where scum tried to NK the PGO: mpolo's Illiad game. You'll have to ask bessie (apparently, she's Keeper of the Code) for details as I don't care to remember such an ignominious defeat.

[Seven]

By "Phoenix Cop" I mean a cop that resurrects after a nightkill.

Why did you investigate Somi and not Pat?

[madge]

It is noon.

Suzaku has been resurrected and may now post.

Dusk starts in just under 4 days.

Votals:
Seven (2) - wam, moody

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

[Suzaku]

OK - quick post to say that I am indeed back.
I have been kind of following the thread on and off while dead, but I haven't been paying a lot of attention. I will need a block of time to reread properly.

Prior to that, though, let's get this out of the way:
I have nothing to declare from D1/N1.

I had (and have) no self-ressurection ability, so someone ressurected me. From flavour, this was very likely a night action. I have no idea who it was, so don't even bother asking.

[Seven]

Partner slip from somi here:

This fine pretty lady is spitting 100% straight truth, except that role is made up, which isn't a great move when you're already on the brink.

I read "phoenix" as a role attribute, not an actual role. That said, @Seven, can we get a few more details on your role? Why do you have an auto-resurrection ability?

What does Phoenix cop mean?

Isn't "phoenix" the role modifier you have?

[Wam]

Welcome back to the land of the living suzaku.

My understanding is that PGO is a passive ability. JoaT utilizes active abilities. Sniper is either insane or he and somi are simply Mafia. I think moody is the most reliable hit, however based on Booms play. And I don't think I trust laser.

I have seen joat have passive abilities.

[Seven]

I feel like maybe there were other places that shot could have been used that might have been more useful.

Seven you were pushing hard for somi end of day. Why a sudden boom pivot?

I just dont see how you can be a positive force for town after that and it's going to have to be some amazing logic when your back!

Ok, so the first thing you have to know about me is that I'm not a bottom-up thinker. That is, I don't start from an origin point and discover a destination. Rather I start from the possible destinations and eliminate them (in clusters if possible) until only one remains.

Illustration of bottom up:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Making my way downtown
Walking fast, faces pass and I'm homebound
Staring blankly ahead
Just making my way
Making a way through the crowd
Trying to figure out where to go
Based on the evidence
That I'm slowly piecing togetherrr

Illustration of top down:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

One by one my branches are trimmed
One by one my leaves fall
One by one my tales are told
One by one until only one
My, oh my!
She was aiming too high
He says Adiós, says Adiós

So yes, if I were an evidence-based bottom-up player, I would have killed somi and used his flip to guide forward movement. But in my future-oriented world where I am trimming destinations, it's just not as alluring because somi is mafia in 90% of the branches, whereas Boom is (was) mafia in like 40%

So using my shot on somi has a 90% chance of only eliminating 10% of the branches. Or a 10% chance at eliminating 90% of the branches.
Boom had a 40% chance of eliminating 60% of the branches or a 60% chance of eliminating 40% of the branches.

So like there is like a 2-3 times as much value in seeing a boom flip for solving the game. And that's not even taking account into the fact that Boom is a mafia power player who would be very difficult to eliminate through voting, especially if he was bussing moody (which I thought to be the case).

---

Ok so now onto my logic for why I thought boom was likely scum.

Assumption: The game consists of 7 town

Heuryzen - is town.

Jim - Is not survivor because he is playing with too much gust and not afraid to be night killed. Is not cult for the same reason. So Jim as scum is mafia only. However, Jim was resistant to eliminating Pat at the EoD rather than taking the opportunity to eliminate a mafia cop; therefore, Jim is not mafia either. Jim is town.

Bessie - Has been very open with her speculations even when they are a long shot (such as testing to see if there was a militant atheist (I don't know what that is btw)). Bessie as scum keeps this sort of speculation close to the vest/in scum chats. Bessie is town.

Wam - He has interacted with everyone consistently. And this line about Heury seems to come from a town mindset because it's a throwaway that he didn't bother to elaborate on, but which I presume was due to his experience with Heury in WWZ: viewtopic.php?p=7001#p7001. Wam is likely town.

Laser - Being so direct here feels so natural and townie: viewtopic.php?p=6968#p6968. Additionally, a possible Laser meta tell: he isn't explaining his shifting thought processes in thread, which means he's doing the bulk of it in his quicktopic which means he's probably town. Key word there is 'shifting'. I think town/indie Laser may appear to be much more tunnely in thread because he has already worked out his views in private. Like how he keeps giving the same reasoning over and over again for why he thinks I'm Survivor etc. It's so tunnely. Scum Laser I think is more apt to try to give the impression of pondering and changing views. Laser is likely town.

Sniper - The we post here seems obvnewbie town: viewtopic.php?p=6900#p6900. Considering I'm town, this post is townie: viewtopic.php?p=7165#p7165 because his idea of Pat being scum is centered on the idea of me being her partner. The reasoning for his heury vote seems genuine here: viewtopic.php?p=7933#p7933. Snide is likely town.

So with 6 town players that means that only one of the following players is town:

Boom
Pat
Moody
Somi
Suzaku

Boom - Weird moody push. Didn't seem like he was actually trying to save Pat at EoD and was just doing it for show. The "I'll compromise to somi or ToS" made me feel like he and moody were partners and he was just doing everything for show / lack of consequence of bussing due to revival. It's very difficult to sort out what is mafia boomfrog and what are simply boomfrog idiosyncracies.

Pat - believe to be cult

Moody - seems townie in his responses to pressure

Somi - many scum tells

Suzaku - unknown

-Suzaku isn't mafia because he was night killed
-Moody and Pat aren't a mafia team based on the way he responded to the idea that he bussed day 1
-Moody probably isn't mafia with somi based on his gusto and somi's lack thereof.
-Boom isn't partners with Pat because he was treating her like a newbie town miselim.
-Boom and somi could be partners. Boom and moody could be partners (see above reasoning).

Therefore, the scum group is not Suzaku/Pat/Moody/Somi. Therefore either Boomfrog is mafia OR I am incorrect about at least one of the bottom three in my town group (Wam, Laser, Sniper).

And so I killed BoomFrog to see which of those realities we are in and why I've been skeptical of Wam and Laser today more than I was before. Also I wrote the above in present tense but that was my reasoning going into the night not my current stance. As of where we are now, I still am reading wam as town. Like he's just playing a superb scum game if so. Laser I am very skeptical of because I think his play could be just as much 3rd party as it is town. And his not voting thing just feels like it would fit one of the 3P roles, like by not voting he gets some sort of immunity during the night or something. I had Sniper as obvtown most of the game, but it's seeming likely that the he and somi are just mafia. I would very much like an explanation for why he didn't investigate Pat Night 1.

So my current town grouping is:

Me
Boom
Jim
Bessie
Wam
Pat

The third parties are in: Suzaku, Laser, Moody

Mafia
Sniper
Somi

[Seven]

btw the fact that the cult hasn't yet increased is making me think there might be some arsonist-like mechanic going on wherein the cult leader is tagging people to have them join the cult in one massive triggering event.

[Wam]

@seven you state somi has many scum tells but I dont think you have ever detailed the case?

[Wam]

btw the fact that the cult hasn't yet increased is making me think there might be some arsonist-like mechanic going on wherein the cult leader is tagging people to have them join the cult in one massive triggering event.

Possible or they are really unlucky. I ran a game where 50% were unrecrutiable and the cult recruiter got through 4 nights without a recruit...