Tales of Desolation mafia Engame

[Santygrass]

EGW has lost all whim which is what I expect from scum!EGW in a multiball where he's lost his other ball to chase. Plus being hopelessly outnumbered.

I really want to vote his slot out first.

As I believe this to be the likeliest hit, if we are wrong we end up in a more poor position. Specially in scum!somi scenarios, in which EGW is one of the better tools to help us solve that.

I already embraced my death

[Sabrar]

To be completely honest I think that giving one of the flavor cops to scum is such a bad game design that I'd rather vote Boomfrog before {somi, EGW}. But I promise I will abandon the mechanical solve if the game continues after Santy's yeet.

[Santygrass]

To be completely honest I think that giving one of the flavor cops to scum is such a bad game design that I'd rather vote Boomfrog before {somi, EGW}. But I promise I will abandon the mechanical solve if the game continues after Santy's yeet.

Why? *You* are the one making assumptions about the game and how would *you* make it.

I dont think mafia setups should be able to be complwtely solved by mech. If the cops are a tool to help catch one scum team (the more threatening one) and not the other is like, still good.

Behaviour/Dayplay goes above Mechanical to me . Otherwise there is almost no need to play the game. I dont know Adum that much, but I know Cemetables think similarly to me in this aspect and what I've seen from games she hosted. If towm can just solve something by pure mech and scum has no way to counter is just defeat a lot of the purpose of actually engaging and playing the game.

And like, this is multiball, which is very tricky to balance and out of the ordinary to try to have an assumption of what you think game design should be let you clear a player here.

Clearing you by how you giga sussed Bop, or heury for the confirm by bessie is okay. Use that

[Sabrar]

@Boomfrog: can you ask the mods what information exactly does your self-psychic ability give?
- Suppose wam targets you traffic analyst, what would your result be?
- Suppose Bop targets you with an absorbed Tracker, what would your result be?
- Would you detect any passive abilities not related to the power that was used on you?

[Sabrar]

Behaviour/Dayplay goes above Mechanical to me . Otherwise there is almost no need to play the game.

I absolutely love the behaviour part of the game and would totally enjoy playing complete Vanilla. However I'm a try-hard who likes to win, I'm much better at logic puzzles than reads, therefore once D1 has passed I tend to default to mechanical solves (if I'm still alive). The mods decided to put the abilities in the game and I will use any resource within the game's framework to its fullest extent.

[Santygrass]

Behaviour/Dayplay goes above Mechanical to me . Otherwise there is almost no need to play the game.

I absolutely love the behaviour part of the game and would totally enjoy playing complete Vanilla. However I'm a try-hard who likes to win, I'm much better at logic puzzles than reads, therefore once D1 has passed I tend to default to mechanical solves (if I'm still alive). The mods decided to put the abilities in the game and I will use any resource within the game's framework to its fullest extent.

And Im not saying you should'nt use them. But your solving is using it as almost the only basis while neglecting the other stuff.

To me its more of a complement, you weigh both. I personally value behaviour/dayplay a bit more. But I dont mind since you feel confident and proved to be good in the puzzle solving aspect (see how you caught Bop) to weigh it more. Its just more of a matter of not neglecting the other aspects and not focus only on one. Hopefully Im explaining myself correctly here because so far I think you've been popping off and dont want you to not consider the stuff you are doing. Its more of a 'please also consider this'

[Sabrar]

I'm not throwing it aside completely. I'm putting it on the backlog to clear up the mechanical stuff first and if that doesn't help I will fall back on reads.

[Santygrass]

I'm okay with that. As I said I plan to go into Bop's ISO and provide my own input and reads there so it can be helpful to have /flipped town/ input there and material to discuss for the next day

[Sabrar]

One final mech argument why Santy should be the yeet:
There is no report of anyone being marked N2. If we assume that Madge and phillip are telling the truth about being marked N1 and N3, then what happened with N2? We know Madge couldn't have been again the target, so there are only two possibilites:
- Makhaira was the N2 target. This is less likely given the other targets. I assume Madge was chosen because she was expected to be alive in the endgame, not making too much waves and attracting the NK. Notice how this template could also apply to phillip, the N3 target. This is however the complete opposite of Makhaira.
- The marker was blocked somehow. Given the claimed and flipped abilities this could only be due to me jailing the marker (as we know Madge used loudener and suppression scum would not block their own). N2 I blocked Santy and JC and we know JC can't be it due to N3.

[Santygrass]

Sabrar, do you know how your role would interact with a redirector?

Thinking about the scenarion in where scum JC redirected you to phillip for example. Would they be able to pull it off or your roleblock would go first?

[Sabrar]

He would be able to redirect me first and I would have blocked phillip.

[boomfrog]

EGW has lost all whim which is what I expect from scum!EGW in a multiball where he's lost his other ball to chase. Plus being hopelessly outnumbered.

I agree with this assessment. But then why did you say previously that you have a strong meta-read on him being town?

I changed my mind, it was based on him sincerely scumhunting D1 and D2 but that proves nothing in multi ball. Also, I expected something different from him checking in today.

I agree we can rely on a double cop checking, but EGW can't be checked by 2 cops. Is a single check actually a green check?

[Sabrar]

If we assume a town!cop result is always true (no Framer, GF, etc) then the cross-checks are enough for a green check.
EGW claimed Zestiria + aligned with Shepherd, remaining scum is from Berseria and somi checks game.
Similarly somi claimed Berseria + aligned with Calamity, remaining scum is aligned with Shepherd and EGW checks alignment.

[phillip1882]

hey guys just wanted to point out ahippo is no longer playing, i took over his role.

[phillip1882]

i'll vote however sabrar votes. sabrar let me know.

[heuristically_alone]

Sabrar, tell Phillip to vote themself

[JC_DADDY25]

hey guys just wanted to point out ahippo is no longer playing, i took over his role.

You took over his role, but are you playing?

[Santygrass]

hey guys just wanted to point out ahippo is no longer playing, i took over his role.

You took over his role, but are you playing?

Lmao and are *you* playing ??
You dont have that much difference to how philipp isnplayong to shade them this way imo

[moody7277]

phillip: took over from ahippo end of D2

D2
post 1: hi post

D3
post 2: asking for target recommendations
post 3: claim of Sergei, no lord, yes shepard
post 4: claim of invalid target N2
post 5: says he targeted me
post 6: can target twice consecutively, one use remaining
post 7: says he can motivate vig, votes Bop
post 8: question about flavor

D4
post 9: says he was "suppressed" N3
post 10: puzzled about no scum kill
post 11: confirms he got Mark of Suppression
post 12: says he's out of shots to motivate
post 13: fluff
post 14: proxying Sabrar

NB: I made ~28 posts in that same time frame, and I'm only sort of playing

[JC_DADDY25]

Seriously?

[JC_DADDY25]

Vote: Santy

[Santygrass]

Seriously?

Yes! Hope this helps

[Santygrass]

Also the argument Mak made about Bop making a TMI on hippo "vibes" I agree reads as scummy , but not necessarily paired idk. It could be them knowing hippo well , but I think i can def see it as mafia knowing the aggresion there is not real / possibly TMIng town. Like ...

Yeah my current read on this situation is I don't think Teh Bubblez's defensiveness at early day 1 votes is inherently scummy, but I also don't think Mak's doubling down is either. It feels like town butting heads but I'd love to hear more before really settling on that. Gotta vote somebody and all that and we have two pages of info (and not even every player yet).

And tbh, the longer I think of it, heuristically_alone's early finger of suspicion is almost more suspicious to me than any of the voting-casting aspersions with less attachment than a vote but more oomph than musing.

So for now I'm gonna

Vote: heuristically_alone

but keep aware of the current conflict.

Also ahippos return vote is more returning a handshake than anything substantial.

This double town read just was something I didnt vibed with much, specially because thebubblez argument of being town is "what they did wasnt scummy" , which by itself is... not towny either. So dont really see where they got that vision here.
The heury sus was also shallow, but I can give it a pass since it was very early in to the day and you gotta start somewhere. But the bolded is what pinged me as scum indicative / TMI adjacent view , if it makes sense. Wich is something that aligned with Mak take/vibe on the hippo situation

I just remembered this was one of my first reads this game when catching up wowee it was a good read and then I switched it back such skill issue I cooked there

[Santygrass]

Vote count 1.11
1. Makhaira(0) -
2. EGW(0) -
3. Moody7277(0) -
4. Wam(0) -
5. Sabrar(0) -
6. ahippo(3) - Bessie, JC_DADDY25, EGW
7. TehBubblez(4) - Makhaira, Boomfrog, heuristically_alone, Bop
8. Boomfrog(1) - Sabrar
9. Bop(0) -
10. Bessie(0) -
11. Freddino18(4) - LaserGuy, Wam, Moody7277, ahippo
12. JC_DADDY25(0) -
13. heuristically_alone(1) - TehBubblez
14. Madge(0) -
15. Laserguy(0) -

Not voting: Freddino18, Madge

With 15 players alive it takes 8 to eliminate

The deadline is set for Sunday January 20th at 2 am EST.

Okay unless Bop is a dirty busser this is a *really* good look from bubblez/somi

[EGW]

You dont have that much difference to how philipp isnplayong to shade them this way imo

Not true. JC has been giving thoughts and votes compared to Ahippo / Phillip.