Tales of Desolation mafia Engame

[somitomi]

I kinda want to take it slow and see what scum does in the night and what results we get with EGW

Then again Santy will probably have to be flipped anyway and if Heury takes care of that, we can cover more ground with the cops.

[EGW]

@somitomi, @EGW: could you please both state explicitly what kind of results can you receive? What is your ability testing specifically?

I learn whether a player is aligned with calamity or not specifically.

[Santygrass]

Is it too much to ask that people at least *look* into my character and see that the reasons I gave to be aligned with both are like , legit?

By how I went hard for Wam and showing knowledge/awareness of the flavor implications Im clearly not Malevolence, and how Bop has sussed me since I subbed in despite putting in so much work and dismissing all I did to nitpick me I should also be unpaired with them :wowee:

[Santygrass]

But if you shoot me regardless, after doing the skill issue dance the next day for the bad shot, my recommendation is to blast JC . The indy sus of Heury from D1 is more mafia aligned, and I dont think after knowing that Therion people devoured and having the n1 result they targeted heury again, that seems like a probable lie tbh (And they have equity with Wam+Madge. If Bop flips Indy we have likely a last Malevolence mafia to take care of).

Though probably the best course of action is to plan how to act depending on each possible flip of Bop (except towm obviously lol, but malevolence mafia/other mafia/indy should be the considerations)

[Santygrass]

@Mods If its allowed , could we get clarification to the events/period (that I assume happen after Tales Of Berseria) known as the "Unprecedented Cataclysm" ?
The wiki mentions that a Lord Of Calamity is devoured there by Eizen , are we able to know if a Shepard was involved in those events/fight as well?

I can confirm that an unknown Shepard was involved in those events and died, but Eizen was able to finish the Lord of Calamity off by turning into a dragon and eating him.

This was always my interpretation because the sometime after Bersaria the Shepard became what it is in Zestiria and there's a running implication that Lords of Calamity and Shepards always had the other as an opposing opposite, and I just recently got it confirmed via a summation of a translation of the Bersaria world guidebook that yes, there was a Shepard also fighting against the Lord of Calamity at the time and died in the process but Eizen succeeded.

Bumping up the explanation of why Eizen is aligned with a Shepard , and since he is from the party of Party of Tales Of Berseria (Velvet, Lord Of Calamity is the protagonist) the aligned with Lord of Calamity there is obvious.

Instead of going 'it just dont match with everyone else' just ask yourselves why despite seeing that as scum I dont claim something else? You can see how Bop did apparently, and how Madge and Wam *tried to* but failed to understand the implications; here you can see me BOTH understanding the implications and providing the explanations. Like, istg people do your homework

[Santygrass]

If Bop flips Malevolence mafia > I think is likely we just have one indy remaining. Its likely heury in that scenario . I think holstering or even saying to heury to shoot me is not that bad so you all stop being wrong (?) . Prob yeet heury tomorrow and good luck if that doesnt end the game. I think this is the unlikely flip though, given how Bop went for Wam's head yesterday


If Bop flips other type of mafia > This would confirm multiball, and should only 1 partner from Bop remain in the game, with Sabrar/heury being our only clears. Want to reread Bop for this but imo my head goes to EGW/Somi as plausible partners (moreso Somi I think, but its also a fact how Bop never sussed EGW though I have to recheck this) , Somi is moreso the fact that they didnt care to wait to their flavor claim yesterday (maybe they alrrady knew it?)+the overly charitable read from today.


If Bop flips indy > Already said it, seems like the likely flip to me imo . But honestly think that for Malevolence mafia JC is the last slot that fits the team more. Could be maybe EGW but far less likely to me IMO. You have Wam's read on D1 for JC being that charitable, and the called 'towny perspective' on Jc is them pursuing a indy read so haha~ . In their favor though is the fact that they at least flavor claimed properly, which would be just luck? So idk maybe Bop is just other type of mafis weh

[JC_DADDY25]

If Bop flips Malevolence mafia > I think is likely we just have one indy remaining. Its likely heury in that scenario . I think holstering or even saying to heury to shoot me is not that bad so you all stop being wrong (?) . Prob yeet heury tomorrow and good luck if that doesnt end the game. I think this is the unlikely flip though, given how Bop went for Wam's head yesterday


If Bop flips other type of mafia > This would confirm multiball, and should only 1 partner from Bop remain in the game, with Sabrar/heury being our only clears. Want to reread Bop for this but imo my head goes to EGW/Somi as plausible partners (moreso Somi I think, but its also a fact how Bop never sussed EGW though I have to recheck this) , Somi is moreso the fact that they didnt care to wait to their flavor claim yesterday (maybe they alrrady knew it?)+the overly charitable read from today.


If Bop flips indy > Already said it, seems like the likely flip to me imo . But honestly think that for Malevolence mafia JC is the last slot that fits the team more. Could be maybe EGW but far less likely to me IMO. You have Wam's read on D1 for JC being that charitable, and the called 'towny perspective' on Jc is them pursuing a indy read so haha~ . In their favor though is the fact that they at least flavor claimed properly, which would be just luck? So idk maybe Bop is just other type of mafis weh

So, you're saying that I figured out the flavor claim properly, but didn't explain how to my scum mates and let them hang out to dry?

I get it, you're pretty much outed, and need to figure out a way to direct attention elsewhere. Now you're willing to talk multiball and factor that into your solves, but I feel you've been doing this from the start.

I have looked into the flavor, and your claim makes no sense... not because you're not explaining exactly how your flavor should be read as town, but because you're deliberately leaving out the parts that would hint at you not being town. You downplayed the whole dragon dynamic, and said he was a mindless dragon, when he described as a murderous mindless dragon.

My honest opinion, is that your fake claim is Eizen, so you knew Wam's claim of finding Eizen was fake as well.

I'm willing to vote Santy or Bop today, don't care which order.

Unvote

[Santygrass]

And the part about being murderous and yet me not having a murder how do you explain it? Lol

Its obviously what happens in the future to my character, but not the current state that is taken for this game. May I remind you that if you think Im indy or whatever , then Madge claimed a true mech watcher on Mak, confirming my action on them n1! Which, do I remind you again, Laser softed putting them deliberately at the top of their readlist in case they died (cuz u know, bodyguard). You can go and check how the previous Laser list to the last one is pretty much similar, with the change that hippo was at the top instead of Mak. The change was deliberate

And from what you talked about in thread, you didnt say to 'figure out' the flavor, you pretty much didnt comment anything at all regarding Wam LOL. I did say it was a point in your favor regardless, because it means you would be landed there kinda by luck /shrug .

And like, if you really figured out flavor and stuff, the moment you knew what Heury claimed when saying Therion, you would've had no need to track them for another night

[JC_DADDY25]

Cool story.

[Santygrass]

At least you aknowledge my points are valid and you dont have any argument to reply :thumb_up:

[Santygrass]

Town
ahippo
Mak
Sabrar
Bubbles
Madge
BoomFrog
moody
JC
Bop
EGW <------- Null Line
Wam
heury
bessie
Fred
Scum

Don't have super strong reasons for any of the below EGW group being mafia at this point, just haven't found enough evidence to convince me that they're Town.

Vote: Fred

Quick updated reads for posterity if I get bodied or if I end up as a compromise elim.

Town
Mak
ahippo
Heury
Madge
Sabrar
BoomFrog
Bubbles
Wam
Bessie
JC ------ null
Moody
EGW
Fred
Bop
Scum

Laser soft from D1 here

[JC_DADDY25]

At least you aknowledge my points are valid and you dont have any argument to reply :thumb_up:

Nah, I just think you're grasping at straws trying to throw sit at the wall, and hoping it sticks. I see no point in arguing with a lost cause.

[Santygrass]

At least you aknowledge my points are valid and you dont have any argument to reply :thumb_up:

Nah, I just think you're grasping at straws trying to throw sit at the wall, and hoping it sticks. I see no point in arguing with a lost cause.

My question is simple though, if you figured out the flavour, knew heury action n1 and that therion devoured people. /Why/ did you target them again?

[JC_DADDY25]

Because I wanted to be sure and have proof, since no one was or really has been listening to anything I say. If he targeted another person that was devoured, then I would have outed myself today and given out my info.

All you did last day phase was defend Heury, regardless of how many times I brought up that there was something funny going on.

[Sabrar]

Let me tell you, doing a programming course at the same time as trying to mech solve this is not ideal. I tend to come up with brand new edge cases that could explain night-actions. Anyway.

May I remind you that if you think Im indy or whatever , then Madge claimed a true mech watcher on Mak, confirming my action on them n1! Which, do I remind you again, Laser softed putting them deliberately at the top of their readlist in case they died (cuz u know, bodyguard). You can go and check how the previous Laser list to the last one is pretty much similar, with the change that hippo was at the top instead of Mak. The change was deliberate

Me, me, me, let me play this game! You are Mafia B, together with let's say Bop, not relevant. N1 you tried to kill Mak but he was protected. N2 you tried to kill again but was blocked. You are using LG's readlist as a convenient coincidence to support your fake claim. Your turn to disprove.

More later.

[Santygrass]

Lol and next page Mak is also saying hippo is locktown because of the claim. Glad to be vibing with the stumped town :hmmyes:

Moody is the stump, why do you think it's Mak?

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LMAO . I had a huge Skill Issue moment, I apologize and will adjust accordingly. I think probably my brain saw stump , remembered Mak being one couple of games ago and just winged it or something.
I still think Mak is town, but I may be influenced by the flipped town perception I had when reading their post lol. Actually knowing this I think some things make more sense but we'll see

I included this last part because I was thinking the stumper got over the bodyguard somehow, and knowing I was skill issuing the names just made thing way less complicated for me

1. Bop . Honestly Idk if they would need *more* reasons to be townread. But this post is clearing . Giga clearing, protecc of all costs level of town.

If I were a protective I 100000% would prefer for Bop alive rather than Sabrar. Bop dying because I chose to "save" Sabrar to have more information to solve them is just plain silly

I also softed quite heavily that I was going to protect Bop last day.

Like idk , I have my role softed since D1 , have been watched by Madge carrying said action, Frog JOAT also implies a Bodyguard since it has other roles present in the game . From a flavor standpoint I have showed awareness/knowledge , provided a explanation on why I am aligned with both (something that Madge+Wam couldnt do) , and even if you assume I didnt knew, why claim something clearly different from everyone else xd.
And from a social standpoint I think D2 (the day I subbed in mind you) Ive been towny af, both in clearing and shielding towns and going hard casing scum and etting them yeeted. And other scum (Bop) has been trying to push me aswell from the start.
So yeah, I know that Im biased in this since well I know what I am, but thinking I could be the likely scum here is skill issue. Wont fight against it too hard and help solve regardless, but I want to hold the people that sus me accountable and make them do a skill issue dance in thread if I get flipped hmmyes

[Santygrass]

Let me tell you, doing a programming course at the same time as trying to mech solve this is not ideal. I tend to come up with brand new edge cases that could explain night-actions. Anyway.

May I remind you that if you think Im indy or whatever , then Madge claimed a true mech watcher on Mak, confirming my action on them n1! Which, do I remind you again, Laser softed putting them deliberately at the top of their readlist in case they died (cuz u know, bodyguard). You can go and check how the previous Laser list to the last one is pretty much similar, with the change that hippo was at the top instead of Mak. The change was deliberate

Me, me, me, let me play this game! You are Mafia B, together with let's say Bop, not relevant. N1 you tried to kill Mak but he was protected. N2 you tried to kill again but was blocked. You are using LG's readlist as a convenient coincidence to support your fake claim. Your turn to disprove.

More later.

You think a game with 3 deaths per night make sense Sabrar? Do you think I can be paired with Bop?? Go and read how Bop treated me f.e. . And if talking about Mafia B I could only be mafia with Bop, since Bop flipping Indy disproves multiball, unless you think Adum made a game with 1/3 of the game being scum haha

[Santygrass]

Also, in no world do I let a scummate make that fakeclaim, or have super mismatching agendas in what to do (aka we either both gun for heury to die, or both shield him if its positive for us)

[Sabrar]

I didn't say you were guaranteed scum, I offered an alternative explanation on the mech point you brought up repeatedly because it just irked me that you thought it would automatically clear you.

[Santygrass]

I didn't say you were guaranteed scum, I offered an alternative explanation on the mech point you brought up repeatedly because it just irked me that you thought it would automatically clear you.

Maybe Im being too loud about it, but I understand that it isnt 'clearing' so to say. But I think people looking at the game and thinking Im scum or am the likely scum are tripping and sorta my motivation is to throw all the arguments in the face to later have the right to say 'Skill Issue Skill Issue I told you so and you ignored it"

(Yes Im just petty like that)

[Sabrar]

I get that, but the only reason this game exists is that people think differently. From your pov it might be skill issue, but maybe they have lost in the past for believing a similar argument and are suspicious of you because you keep insisting that you simply have to be town.

[JC_DADDY25]

I've never claimed to have skill anyway

[boomfrog]

If Bop flips other type of mafia > This would confirm multiball, and should only 1 partner from Bop remain in the game, with Sabrar/heury being our only clears. Want to reread Bop for this but imo my head goes to EGW/Somi as plausible partners (moreso Somi I think, but its also a fact how Bop never sussed EGW though I have to recheck this) , Somi is moreso the fact that they didnt care to wait to their flavor claim yesterday (maybe they alrrady knew it?)+the overly charitable read from today.

Why would you not sus me in this case?

[boomfrog]

@somitomi, @EGW: could you please both state explicitly what kind of results can you receive? What is your ability testing specifically?

I'm Zestaria or Berseria cop, I learn which game the target's character is from.

Oh, I thought this was wrong but I reread my PM carefully and you are right. Woomp woomp again. Madge's claim was impossible.

[Sabrar]

I think I'm going to do this in small chunks as I finish a section, rather than a huge info-dump 2 days later.

As I mentioned previously, due to the closed setup at some point we will have to commit to some assumptions. It is impossible to analyze every scenario imaginable and come up with a coherent plan that takes everything into account. The first such big commitment is the number of non-town roles in the game.

With 15 players we can safely exclude 6 non-town, and if the game does not end after we yeet Bop then we know it's at least 4. Now comes the assumption. I believe we can also disregard 5 as a possibility. Looking at the wiki, we see that there are very few setups for 15 (and even 16) players with 5 non-town. It just doesn't feel right. It's not entirely impossible, however accounting for 2 more players lying with their claims is also terribly difficult and I'd rather not spend my time on that. So every analysis from now on will assume that we only need to find 1 more scum.