Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

[Seven]

Vote count 2.9
1. Makhaira(0) -
2. EGW(1) - JC_Daddy25
3. Wam(5) - Santygrass, Makhaira, Sabrar, Madge, Bop
4. Sabrar(2) - Boomfrog, EGW
5. ahippo phillip(0) -
6. TehBubblez Somitomi(0) -
7. Boomfrog(1) - heuristically_alone
8. Bop(0) -
9. JC_DADDY25(0) -
10. heuristically_alone(0) -
11. Madge(0) -
12. Laserguy Santygrass(0) -

Not voting: phillip, Somitomi, Wam

With 12 players alive it takes 7 to eliminate

Day 2 ends Thursday January 30th at 2 am.

[Wam]

Wam , please ask Adum how it makes sense that you are aligned with a Lord of Calamity.

Since you have full context of your character he should be able to answer questions related to your own flavor.

But atp just feels like overkill. Just lolcat if you are scum, you will have more fun at least thats my advice

So paraphrasing, I'm linked through you.

[boomfrog]

I'm sure whatever is happening with wam is very exciting and I'll find out what it is soon. But:

@moody can you claim your alignment with Shepard / calamity for me? I'm assuming you haven't done so. I need it for pattern matching.

[Sabrar]

moody claimed Calamity: https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=85455#p85455

[Wam]

If anyone has any questions for me they have an hour

[Sabrar]

My hope is there is a hidden mechanism that I activate that adum I'd being schtum about.

Don't you think that would be bastard for Adum?

[Wam]

My hope is there is a hidden mechanism that I activate that adum I'd being schtum about.

Don't you think that would be bastard for Adum?

No, I'm thinking something like a different power or getting mod confirmed as town. Don't think either of those count as bastard

[Santygrass]

If anyone has any questions for me they have an hour

If you are town instead of trying to answer question you should solve , that way the rest can use your legacy . Like, who is pushing you/voting you in bad faith and such. Hunt mafia and yada yada

[Santygrass]

@EGW if Wam flips scum please consider what I said about how to use your flavor cop

(Using it on somi , because they're the only one that claimed after it was revealed what was considered outing as scum, hence more likely to be lying as scum)

[Wam]

If anyone has any questions for me they have an hour

If you are town instead of trying to answer question you should solve , that way the rest can use your legacy . Like, who is pushing you/voting you in bad faith and such. Hunt mafia and yada yada

You have my reads list. I don't think anyone is bad faith I'm aware how it looks and I don't blame any town for pushing me. The 1 confirmed town I know is leading the elim!

[heuristically_alone]

FACT:

In tales of Zestiria, we follow a hero Shepard in their fight against an evil Lord of Calamity.

In tales of Berseria, we follow a hero Lord of Calamity in their fight against evil Shepards.

So far, only three claims don't fit that main pattern.

Madge is from two games. There are some characters who live an extremely long time, and as her later game is Zestiria I would see aligned with a Shepherd as likely town. But it is one of the non standard ones.

Santy claims to be from Berseria, but aligned with BOTH a Lord of Calamity (heroic in Berseria) and Shepherd (evil in Berseria). This could be scum, but also would make sense an an independent with my theory.

Wam claims to be from Zestiria, but aligned with a Lord of Calamity (evil in Zestiria). This seems most likely to be scum to me.

I don't believe the outliers (Madge, wam and Santy) can be mafia. I think scum need to be those that fit within this outline, and how I would do it if running the game is on a scum team one would be aligned with lords of calamity and the other Shepards. I do think there is a strong chance of Madge, wam and Santy all being undies, but we should target scum today instead of indies.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

I dislike voting people out for flavor reasons I am not familiar with.
I dislike people getting voted out because of flavor reasons they are not familiar with.

Yeah, I personally hate this. I feel like there's a huge portion of flavour that's inaccessible to me because I don't know the game. I'm very frustrated, even if it is nice and convenient for me to have people to sheep. I don't want to sheep towards the end of the game, but I'm going to have nothing better to go on and I'm going to have to trust people (or read the wiki but LOL). As it stands I'm struggling to keep track of all the flavour stuff, now there's an entire new game with apparently opposite alignments (WHAT), and this whole flavour cop thing seems IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND unless you actually know the games? assuming it even works?

I tried to read my role PM and the wiki and in the end my eyes glazed over it. Like what the actual fuck is a shepherd because it has nothing to do with sheep obviously. I had a whole conversation with Adumb about this when he didn't give me a straight answer about which game my character is from and directed me to the wiki again and I'm just fucking over it. The wiki isn't a straightforward thing, every damn word has a different definition and i know sometimes the words really do mean what they say but i don't know that and I do not have the time or the bandwith to look up every second word to understand someone else's claim and it's just absolute bull and I HATE IT

and i understand the irony because i write the flavour for a yearly game but i deliberately usually make it so characters game alignment has no bearing on their source matierla alignment so that way people don't feel like they need to read into every fucking paragraph

i'm not going to ask for a replacement because i know it will get better once we get some flips and i understand the shit especially now we have our alignments laid out but I'm so over this and I have so much shit going on and my back hurts from driving yesterday and my partner works in politics and he's stressed the F out with two elections coming up in March and the holiday that was me want to be a break forom all that bullshit just resulted in us having another fight about it and now he might resign his fucking jon with nothing liend up and i can't

but uh i digress

case on wam seems solid tbh and better than anything we have going

vote: wam

This sounds like frustrated scum for being caught for flavor and hoping to sound more like frustrated town.

Right well at this point I might as well fullclaim and lay all my cards on the table. So on odd days I am an elimmer for my brother (who I now know is sant) as I have accepted his fate and want to end his suffering. On the even days I'm town as im still working with and trying to save my brother.

Is Elimmer an Indy role? So you're Indy some days and town others? That fits in with my theory that those outliers are all Indy

[Wam]

Yes indy/town on alternating days

[Santygrass]

Wam, may I ask why you only post a reads list after claiming and not before? Since you mentioned a half written reads list. Can we see that as well?

That is the half written one with the only change being santy moved up.

Decided I wasn't going to get any further today and deadline is 7am my time so wasn't going to get it done tomorrow!

You admitted that it was half written. And like, to be honest the elaboration / explanations are kinda empty? So like, if you are town revisiting and yapping more about your reads would be super appreciated

[heuristically_alone]

Do you have 2 different win conditions? What is/are your win condition(s)?

[Wam]

Elaborated Reads list updates in italics I think I got them all I decided to do that half way through

Town

Sant
See claim

A hippo/phillip - I have not changed on this day 2, not going to elim phillip before they have even posted. I would be very dubious of people pushing this elim in the future with phillip being a newbie this is a very hard game to come into.

Bubbles/somi
The end of day stuff from bubbles screamed town. Somi is coasting a bit on this. If I had more time I would poke at somi. Don't let somi coast!

Bop
I think bop is comin across townie and things such as the flavour analysis shows thendesire to solve etc. The pusb on me the analysis comes to me from a townie place.

Heury
See previous post the indy focus is weird, 3 indys in a game even a 15p game is weird.

The paranoia zone (all these are good enough or have previously snowed me as scum)

Madge,
Miller claim and limited content day 2 but I'm giving her RL pass for that. The emotion coming through in her last post is hard to fake.

Sabrar
Sabrar is approaching the game sensibly and playing to their usual.meta but sabrar can fake.this. I think scum sabrar would have pushed harder on me. The "I can't read wam felt real"

Boom
I feel boom has been sat back more than I would expect with everything going on. I'm happy to accept some.od that is RL though. Waiting to see what boom comes up with.

The null zone

JC
Day 1 JC was in their limited content coming across townie to me. Day 2 there is not the same vibe and lots of Pushes are needed.

The worry zone
Mak
Accepting RL happens and this game.isngoing at 100 miles an hour but mak feels like scum who established their town credentials day 1 and are coasting on it. Maks challenging on setup feels a bit dismissive but they know adum better than me.

EGW
The whirling derbish of reads votes.solves, theories.

Scum

I could be persuaded to vote anywhere in the paranoia zone or below.

Do you have 2 different win conditions? What is/are your win condition(s)?

Like what more do you need from my claims?

[Sabrar]

@Boomfrog: are you deliberately stalling so you don't have to answer my question today?

[Wam]

vote egw

It's my best read.

[somitomi]

Whelp, the last time I was anywhere near caught up was 10 pages ago, it's 8 hours to deadline and half past 11pm. How on Earth...
Anyway I think Wam claimed to have some weird role that flips wincon every other day? Anything else I should know about?

[boomfrog]

Catch up bark!
Sabrar request to finally explain - I think I've answered this sufficiently below

Santy completely misunderstanding wam's purpose here is interesting. - It show's Santy is not concerned about wam's push on EGW. Maybe non-partner indicative with EGW, but also, not caring about wam's behavior which is weird as Santy's main scum read. So -town points for Santy.

Review after full read: Yeah, they are unaligned.

Thank you for doing my homework @Santy.

DING DING DING! - Bop got exactly where I was going with the flavor claim stuff. Oh I bet this is how we got on wam.

Having 2 flavor cops who need each other's result to be effective is a neat idea, I like it.

How did you not get that that was my theory! I was sure you'd get it. (I guess I am giving you an earful about this, although I'm sure you were referring to something else.) Any safe claims are "the claim that is safer to claim" but they shouldn't match scums actual associations. That's the answer to your concerns.

I the words of the great Regis Philbin... Is that your final answer?

Yes.

EGW, the fact that you sincerely think you will not actually change your answer is amazing to me. How can you not learn from your own past? How can you not accept that we all have to work with "probablies" all the time.

I realized that your vote on me was due to a misunderstanding, and Santy was taking advantage of that to push you.

What was the misunderstanding from wam's perspective?

Vote: EGW

I don't see Adum putting a useless role in the game.

This is after Bop has revealed the likely use of flavor-cop and I confirmed this role really exists, so I don't see how you can not believe he is actually a flavor cop. Why do you think EGW flavor cop = EGW scum?

Santy character claim. - I need to check the flavor here, but I'll keep reading assuming someone else does the legwork for me.

And I think Sabrar is very likely a teammate of Wam. Will elaborate tonight when I get home.

But today yeet is always Wam

Why can't you be so unreasonable on an odd day!

What would be different about how this plays out on an odd day?

Sure, buddy. I'm not even mad any more.

OMG, I'm dying. Welcome to not-giving-a-fuck-when-you-are-scum-read-ville

Hallelujah! A fucking actual take from JC! - Please just post a lot more gut feels and raw reactions. I don't need super polished takes or hard stances.

Hello boom. Why did you have us claim?

I think it should be clear, but to be 100% explicitly clear, it was for exactly the pattern that Bap pointed out. I was hoping the two pieces of info together equaled a definitive alignment indication. From a game design perspective I suspected that we had two halves of one cop and I could facilitate the coordination without having the cops reveal themselves. Btw, I wish you had not been so eager to claim. I believe your role is more useful than you gave it credit for and unnecessary claims from town always help scum.

Fwiw of all the votes so far I think madges is most likely to be a bus, thats my 2 cents on possible mates

I think there is always one between Sabrar and Egw. And im like at 85% it should be Sabrar

Despite my lingering vote, Sabrar feels really really townie to me. The exasperation is real. Actually, I think we might have a full solve if I just assume everyone exasperated with EGW is town and everyone who's sitting back enjoying the chaos he's driving is scum.

I think Madge is town here. No interest except mech, compare this to her scum games.

I think she's feigning flavor confusion as an excuse to appear overwhelmed and not have to do the hard work of solving (or faking solving if scum)

Its a gut read more or less and is def fueled a bit by fear of madges range but thats where Im at

Madge's flavor frustration is 100% real, and she only cares this much about it if she is town or at least actually scum hunting. Maybe she's scum in a multi-ball so she's still scum hunting, but her frustration is real.

I do.get the street cred of a double.win!

Does your role PM talk about a double win?

@Heury: You never answered JC about your claim. Are you from Zestiria or Berseria?

@Boomfrog: are you deliberately stalling so you don't have to answer my question today?

No, I finally finished my catch up.

[Wam]

And I think Sabrar is very likely a teammate of Wam. Will elaborate tonight when I get home.

But today yeet is always Wam

Why can't you be so unreasonable on an odd day!

What would be different about how this plays out on an odd day?

Why an I not asleep.

You have caught up but didn't realise my claim?

[Wam]

*read not realise

[boomfrog]

Whelp, the last time I was anywhere near caught up was 10 pages ago, it's 8 hours to deadline and half past 11pm. How on Earth...
Anyway I think Wam claimed to have some weird role that flips wincon every other day? Anything else I should know about?

Wam claimed to be Even day Elimmer looking to elem his brother, odd days town. Santy is the brother role. Also wam says this makes Santy confirmed town. Santy says his role info has some inconsistency with wam's claim and he's convinced wam is lying.

EGW keeps flipping reads around.

Madge is frustrated that flavor is playing such a big role in solving.

Bop and I are pretty sure that the two cops together make one single definitive result. This can't be 100% accurate though if Santy is town since Santy is aligned with both. WAIT!

@Everyone: The two cops are Basaria or not cop and Lord of Calaminty aligned or not cop. That means Santy would show up as town in the pattern and only his extra claim about the Shepard makes him stand out. So the theory holds so far.

Heury is proposing that this alignment thing isn't indicative of scum. Actually I have more to say here but I'll post this now so you have something to work with.

[boomfrog]

Why can't you be so unreasonable on an odd day!

What would be different about how this plays out on an odd day?

Why an I not asleep.

You have caught up but didn't realise my claim?

If it was an odd day you would still be getting yeeted. What would actually be different?

[Wam]

What would be different about how this plays out on an odd day?

Why an I not asleep.

You have caught up but didn't realise my claim?

If it was an odd day you would still be getting yeeted. What would actually be different?

I could make an argument for a santy yeet and still be playing to wincon.

Realised I didn't answe r

Wam wrote: ↑
I do.get the street cred of a double.win!

Does your role PM talk about a double win

Yes

[boomfrog]

Does your alignment get locked in as town if you are elimmed today or do you lose the game if town wins on an odd day?