Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

[Santygrass]

I have checked rule 12 , and its true that implies some type of role. Wouldnt say resurrection is my first thought , and moreso maybe a Medium ? But yeah that rule implies that there will be some after-death mechanical thing happening

[moody7277]

@Santy Rule 12 would certainly cover my situation. No idea if any other powers exist which would preclude people from reading spoilers upon death.

EGW putting up several different possible scum teams and varying them based on who was voting for him, and now coming back around to the Mak/ahippo(phillip) team he was pushing due to what I think was a crap reason is so very icky. I think he should be votable.

[EGW]

EGW putting up several different possible scum teams and varying them based on who was voting for him, and now coming back around to the Mak/ahippo(phillip) team he was pushing due to what I think was a crap reason is so very icky. I think he should be votable.

Can you elaborate on the reasoning.

[EGW]

Also, Mak, Hippo, Boom never voted for me and I scum read them before. So that is a bit unfair to use as your reasoning, Moody. I scumread Heury and Wam before they voted me. Sabrar was the only player that made me reconsider due to the timing of his vote.

[moody7277]

EGW putting up several different possible scum teams and varying them based on who was voting for him, and now coming back around to the Mak/ahippo(phillip) team he was pushing due to what I think was a crap reason is so very icky. I think he should be votable.

Can you elaborate on the reasoning.

Post where you first bring up the possibility of Mak being scum with ahippo. You also included a couple other points (Mak's opinion about a particular tell, and a meta read), but it's looks like the foundation of your theory was fallout from the handshake issue which, as I've already said, looks more like coincidence than malicious.

[Bop]

@anyone: has anyone been aligned to both shepehrs/calamnity or neither? i don't recall seeing it

Only Santy as far as I'm aware.

I am aligned with a Lord of Calamity, and with a Shepherd . I am from Tales of Berseria . I am aware that not all players know of characters that are from the past .

I could maybe say more or some details but might just be too obvious and out my flavor lol

[Santygrass]

Mak - Aligned with Shepard. NOT with Lord of Calamity. (Tales Of Zestiria)

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Ive been useless today so im going to flavor claim to help yall out on this issue, Im aligned with a shepard and NOT aligned with a lord of calamity

Oh and Im from zestiria not berseria forgot that part of my flavour claim earlier

EGW - Aligned with Shepard. NOT with Lord of Calamity (Lailah from Tales Of Zestiria)

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

I am Laliah, Town Flavor Cop. Aligned with Shepherd, not aligned with a calamity. I detect whether or not a target is aligned with Lord of Calimity. I targeted Boom last night, and it is confirmed that he is Lord of Calimity. I do believe Boomfrog about there being two flavor cops, since the title of the game changed. I still thought he was scum, because I was told by the mod that this is not an alignment based cop, as town and scum may be aligned with a lord of calamity.

Wam . Aligned with a Lord of Calamity, not aligned with a Shepard. (From Tales of Zestiria)

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

I'm from tales of restriction, I am aligned with a lord of calamity I am not aligned with a shepard

Ebwop

I'm from tales of zesrtria.

Thanks autocorrect

Sabrar - Aligned with a Shepard , not with a Lord Of Calamity (Tales Of Zestiria)

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Great, so you aren't opposed. So let's do it. Since it's totally irrelevant, why don't you claim next?

I am from the Zestiria game, aligned with a Shepherd, not aligned with a Lord of Calamity.

ahippo - Aligned with a Shepard . Probably not with a Lord of Calamity by omission (Tales of not specified)
@philipp should complete the flavor claim (just tell us the game of procedence + confirm if not aligned with lord of calamity)

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

I think the last piece of relevant information I even have to say is that I'm aligned with the Shepherd.

In theory, I really love these social deduction games! Under better circumstances, I'd like to try again! I'm sorry it didn't work out this time. We're figuring out a replacement for me, and considering how low I've set that bar, I guarantee they'll be better!

@somitomi - PENDING TO CLAIM

Boomfrog - Aligned with a Lord Of Calamity, not aligned with a Shepard. (From Tales of Berseria)

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Nevermind, careful reading was sufficient.

I'm aligned with a lord of calamity.
I'm from Bersaria.

In retrospect this makes me a Miller depending on how cop works in this game.

Oh, and I'm not aligned with a Shepard in case that is relevant.

Bop - Aligned with a Lord of Calamity. Not aligned with a Shepard (From Tales of Berseria)

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

I'm from Berseria. I'm aligned with a Lord of Calamity, and not aligned with a Shepherd. @hueristically_alone with @Madge on deck, I think you're up.

@JC PENDING TO CLAIM
claim right this instant my friend .
(Dont like the fact that he was aware and pending of others claim but has to yet say anything related to their own flavor. (Post , Post , Post )

heuristically_alone . Aligned with Lord Of Calamity. Not aligned with a Shepard. (From Tales of Berseria I assume)

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Aligned with Lord of Calamity, not Shepard. Therion

Madge - Aligned with a Shepard, not with a Lord of Calamity. (From Both games)
@Madge would appreciate if you dont think is too revealing if you say in which game your character has a bigger role

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

I also know that it's not my turn to claim yet but I might not be around for 12 hours and I'd rather not slow down the role call so

Not aligned with calamity, yes shepherd. Also a miller.

Phone posting so I will go check what game I'm from

I checked my wiki page and I'm listed as in both games

Santygrass - Aligned with a Shepard , Aligned with a Lord Of Calamity (From Tales Of Berseria) ((But its listed in both games, mentioned only the more important role by the wiki. This was the "more details I didnt want to reveal since I thought maybe it was something kinda unique to be in both, but seeing that is the case for Madge maybe is not as revealing. Or yes but yolo)

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

I am aligned with a Lord of Calamity, and with a Shepherd . I am from Tales of Berseria . I am aware that not all players know of characters that are from the past .

I could maybe say more or some details but might just be too obvious and out my flavor lol

Moody . (Eleanor from Tales of Berseria)

Bessie (Zenrus from Tales of Zestiria)

Fred (Dezel from Tales of Zestiria)

[Santygrass]

I do have some conclussion out of this , but @EGW please bookmark my post above or try to keep some track of this.
When JC and somi ACTUALLY CLAIM THEIR FLAVOR , I will ask Bop what I think about the flavor implications here

[heuristically_alone]

I hate the sarcastic "here I go, trying to seem town again! " bit. I've seen too many scum pull that jokey claiming stuff so it always gets my attention.

I don't disagree. However in this instance it was merely a jest in the direction of EGW

[heuristically_alone]

I have checked rule 12 , and its true that implies some type of role. Wouldnt say resurrection is my first thought , and moreso maybe a Medium ? But yeah that rule implies that there will be some after-death mechanical thing happening

Bessie flipping psychic is after death mechanical

[Santygrass]

Ambientation Music

Lets start with why ahippo is town. First, I want to highlight the early snips that just are shows of hippo's *inexperience* . He said he knew about mafia , but was not much experienced with forum mafia. Anyone who has played mafia irl and forum mafia knows that the overall playing style and nuances are SUPER different. Heck, you only need to go play mafia in another forum/community and the game will be played different that you are used to.

vote: ahippo

Giving them a big xkcdmafia welcome back

I would have it no other way. Good to be back!

vote: moody
Only fair.

God, I forgot the joys of day one. "Nothing has happened yet, but some of you MUST be bad guys, so I'm goin' off ... vibes. Vibes have never steered me or anyone else wrong before! I'm sure it'll be fine."

This is just a demostration of them thinking that D1s are just vibes, and no having really a definite idea of what to do in them imo. D1s is something that new people tend to struggle a lot

Okay, just based on context clues, to "fry" is to vote for a player, upping the heat and seeing how they respond, yes? Makes sense, but I'll walk beside the wagon for now. I'm not jumping on yet.

Here is them asking for clarification on what the others are talking about. Its like, the unsureness still and trying to adapt to others / try to learn is natural because of their lack of knowledge . That sorta taints their tone and I think could be the reason that some people read them not being in the same wavelenght of everyone else as scummy , when it more NAI newbieness if you know what I mean

Yeah, that's kinda the response I expected for that question. Very understandable. Still, hasn't much changed my opinions on anyone. Which at this point are almost universally "Gee, honestly, no clue." Y'all seem to know each other's styles much better than I.

unvote

I feel like the hand has been thoroughly shook. No genuine suspicion.

Bolded just support the point I was just stating above in how hippo does feel like an outsider, and reinforces their own view about how they think D1 is only "vibes" and feels empty.

And what does a player who feels like social play is rather empty rely on? Mech.

Honestly, I'm doing a lot of catchup on what the vibes are like. I really don't like being cagey and dodging direct questions. Is it suspicious to claim a role D1? Is it considered, like, rude? Or bad play? I mean if it is bad play, I could just own up to being a bad player.

First, more of hippo feeling like he belongs to another pond. What is his solution to try to get into the game? mech!

Like, the approach of someone not being good at early social play, and reliant on mech to solve is just... very clear from hippo entrance.

So, we go a bit back and look at the first *game related* question hippo did. Lets note that THIS question was the reason why they got pushed and later "crumbled" in the pressure and claimed

Hey Moody, do you have a night action? No need to specify faction or power. Simply, yes or no.

Without context. This is just a weird question for a town to do so early. Its understandable why people first assumed rolephising.
But if we take into account that their claim of motivator, this shows hippo approach like, super starkingly clear.
I dont know how to get involved into the game > I look at mech > Ask something related to my own role > Hippo tries to gather info to use their night action in a better way (Focus being acting on someone that has a night action so their motivation isnt wasted on someone who has no action)

I will point you to the fact that I explicitly did NOT ask for role. I simply asked "Do you have a power?"

Why Moody? Honest answer, when he voted for me, I just found it very endearing and wanted to ask someone I thought would answer. Vibes are all I've got right now.

Why do I care if Moody has a power? I can double a person's use of that power, once per night, only twice in the game, and on separate nights. Realizing now that if I do pick Moody, then that's an extra target on him, so ... yeah, it's useless if my target dies.

I'd probably just be better off using a random number generator to pick my target. I trust blind statistics more than my own intuition at this point.

And like. This is pure as hell if you've been keeping up the mental image of hippo until now. Even why was it directed at moody , the player in which they had an interaction so would be more likely to answer because of that. Is just super pure.

The Random number bit is again, pure and an indicator of inexperience. If it were scum trying to keep things hidden, they wouldnt have claimed in first place so openly~



So, I covered the progression and /pureness/ of Hippo claim. And although I've talked about it I feel like. I want to restate , this is in NO WAY coached. The pureness doesnt align with that, and logic that a scum team decides to coach a sort of new player not very sure on what to do into CLAIMING and gathering spotlight ??? And being something that all town can and will keep track of what they do til the rest of the game with their action, WHICH IS PRETTY EASY TO CONFIRM IF IT HAPPENS? No way . Rescinding that role to use in a scummy way / on partners is just not a take that scum decides to do that early .
It wasnt a claim because of pressure, because as you can see, hippo was softing their role even before any of it happened. It is just a hella towny claim, by timing, approach , and role claimed.

Sorry for lurk. Sometimes life happens.

ahippo - Very clearly town. Maybe the timing was more clear as it happened instead of rereading the history all at once, but he clearly was

I appreciate this Boomfrog.

Also be sure to be specific who you are suspicious of in this sentence.

Yes, good call. I'm more suspicious that Boomfrog is scum, cuz I'm exactly the kinda player you can "butter up" so to speak, so that I use my ability on them. Bessie would be perfectly fine with me dying today, and her reasons for suspecting me are pretty understandable.

If you think that hippo is scum for example, and the absence and crumbling to pressure are something that affected their gameplay here. How does this align? Appreciating Frog support on them , to then agreeing it was suspicious and being wary of being pocketed? Like how does someone struggling with pressure just not hug and hang on to the hand Frog is giving them here? Dont think this is how scum!hippo reacts . Specially considering the overall feeling they have been showing of feeling a bit left out. The suspicion on Frog here is just... real, and towny.

Then tell me. What's your read on Hippo's day play, does it line up with a town role? You felt the the wording was weird. If you believe the claim as town, explain to me how Hippo does that as a coincidence.

The 5D chess y'all seem to think I'm capable of. Meanwhile I'm over here feeling like I'm struggling with checkers. If this is STILL about the "handshake" thing, I guarantee I'd work harder to subtly affirm a positive read on me instead of paraphrase the post DIRECTLY ABOVE. Kinda hard to miss that, reading it straight, but easy to miss that post when you forget you can get ninja'd!

For now, I'll vote: Fred to keep as much distance between myself and the rope as possible. If I went to the trouble of claiming my power D1, I'd appreciate the chance to use it.

While I dont like the vote on Fred since its like, not really caring about reading Fred... Self-pressing to save yourself is always correct regardless of alignment. And even if I dont like it, it aligns with Hippo's view of thinking D1 is mostly vibes and not weighing much of the social aspect.


Also, I just want to showcase this progression of hippo when requested reads

@ahippo can we get a reads list from you along with a vote please?

I really think it'd be disingenuous and extremely arbitrary to try to actually rank folks. Like somebody would ask me on D2 "Hmm, ahippo, what about X struck you as more scummy D1 than Y?" I'd much rather own up to not being really set on opinions than try desperately to concoct a list, then confirmation bias my way into being set in a bad decision.

I would love to just have some space and think about how things look at the beginning of D2, assuming I get there. I hope that's not gonna cause anyone to clutch their pearls.

Okay fine!

Towniest Trio:
Bop
bessie
Wam


Scummiest ... Three (cuz I couldn't think of a fun alliteration):
EGW
Boomfrog
LaserGuy


Those are in no particular order,
AND none of the scum names have come off the list for my power. Nor do the townies have any extra weight.

Have I appeased y'all? I hope you put as much stock in my opinions as I do.

His explanation for not wanting to commit is just too much to ignore, and if he posts one now I feel it's just too save himself.

I love being pressured to give an opinion on something that I don't have a strong opinion on, then being scolded for giving the opinion I didn't want to give.

Like, I could nitpick and think they just conveniently townread one of my strongest scumreads (Wam) , or the fact that they caved in to the pressure and made half assed reads, but their last post and overall *annoyance* rather than fear when doing all this reads as towny to me.


For Hippo D2 , you have their catchup talking about wondering if their motivate target claimed, a little later talking about what are the options of why their target could've not claimed it yet, and later revealing that it was Sabrar (they vote for the extension in the middle of that and say again that they dont have much time and stuff). Last post is them doing the flavor claim .

Again , its a very *mech* focused approach to the game, and like a fresh lettuce into mafia. Its what I'd expect given how Ive seen of them D1 .

If I compare it and have expectation like if they were a regular here, the D2 performance does leave a LOT to be desired. But from Hippo? It goes in line, and doesnt make me move my previous conf townread on the claim and overall tone I saw D1

[Santygrass]

*quoting just for ping purposes*

Let me know what you think of my hippo elaboration. With this and all the flavor recopilation you better be town so I wont feel dumb for putting this amount of work wowee

[Santygrass]

I have checked rule 12 , and its true that implies some type of role. Wouldnt say resurrection is my first thought , and moreso maybe a Medium ? But yeah that rule implies that there will be some after-death mechanical thing happening

Bessie flipping psychic is after death mechanical

How so? Psychic isnt a self watcher?

[Bop]

I hate the sarcastic "here I go, trying to seem town again! " bit. I've seen too many scum pull that jokey claiming stuff so it always gets my attention.

I don't disagree. However in this instance it was merely a jest in the direction of EGW

Well and I do think I've taken that you jest into account. This is a game and I don't want to be like "the only townie mindset is joke free " lmao.

I have checked rule 12 , and its true that implies some type of role. Wouldnt say resurrection is my first thought , and moreso maybe a Medium ? But yeah that rule implies that there will be some after-death mechanical thing happening

Bessie flipping psychic is after death mechanical

A mod reiterated this bc Psychic has multiple meanings depending on where you look (I had never played w a psychic and found the "commune with dead players" definition) this game has the "list of abilities someone was targeted by". The start of day post had a note added to clarify this. Relevant mod posts below

Added a note to Bessie's flip because the many widely different variations of what psychic gets makes it functionally a custom role.

I acknowledge this as an error on my part given my moderation philosophy for this game.

"
Note 2: since the psychic has a bunch of different variations without a real standard I should treat it like a custom role and explain what variation I'm treating as standard for this game. What I'm treating as standard psychic just gives a list of abilities that a person was targeted by.

[Santygrass]

Questioning that I liked/vibed from Mak D1

Hippo, how did bop know that you interpreted the RVS vote on you as a handshake/high five before you posted to say thats how you interpreted it

The order of those posts feels TMI hmmmmm

Thats like..... a pretty specific vibe to just "get"

Like almost a verbatim match

Read that I like v much , specifically considering it comes from a slot he was kinda pressing with the questions from above . I think I was towning hippo afeter the claim p hard, and reading this (thinking Mak was the stumped flipped town) made me lock hippo as town

I will point you to the fact that I explicitly did NOT ask for role. I simply asked "Do you have a power?"

Why Moody? Honest answer, when he voted for me, I just found it very endearing and wanted to ask someone I thought would answer. Vibes are all I've got right now.

Why do I care if Moody has a power? I can double a person's use of that power, once per night, only twice in the game, and on separate nights. Realizing now that if I do pick Moody, then that's an extra target on him, so ... yeah, it's useless if my target dies.

I'd probably just be better off using a random number generator to pick my target. I trust blind statistics more than my own intuition at this point.

alright I think this is locktown, only way it isnt is if adum included a disloyal supporter/motivator in the setup and frankly I dont think adum has much experience at all with loya/disloyal modifiers so I highly doubt this is a fake claim. I also doubt it is a claim from a scumslot that actually had a motivating power because Im assuming scum have day chat and theres no way the scumteam would allow a mate with that power, especially if it can double scum abilities, to claim it and thus allow the town to start directing it or scrutinizing the slot's picks. Like if hes a scum motivator that can double his mates abilities thats a busted ass role, hence why I think the only way it makes it to a scum side role in one of adums games is with a disloyal modifier or MAYBE a weak modifer, but I dont think adum is familiar with the former and wouldnt go for the latter especially if the game has redirects outside of the scum faction that would hypothetically have control of this motivator power

So ahippp, I had your role in the last game we played here. Given you have a limited number of shots, my normal advice would be to keep a low profile and focus on surviving as long as possible to wait for a big info generating PR claim that you think is legitimate and then buff that player and see what happens. Your power is very weak early game but becomes very powerful in the late game. Unfortunately, because of your premature claim, unless scum sniff out someone else that they think is trying to conceal that they are a strong PR, you are very likely to get night killed now. If there are protectives out there it could cause scum to have to try to outguess them on the yomi 1 play of NKing the only claimed PR

Depending on if adum is using NAR or not, you should be able to atleast get one use of your ability off tonight because generally NKs resolve last in the order. You should use your power on whoever you townread the strongest, but you should not announce or telegraph who that is

Randomimg your choice is generally fine this early in the game because this game is likely to be 12v3, 11v4 (if town is loaded up with strong PRs) or 11v2v2 (multiball is always possible in bigger games) so statistically you are more likely to hit a town role to double than a scum role with a random shot, so if you dont feel confident in your reads this isnt the worst option and it roughly trends town +EV

Mak Near EoD1 being active and trying to make people commit to votes and form wagons

Im not joking its a decent tell, not gonna tunnel bubblez here but I think it warrants some pressure

Slot hasnt done anything since. I think this slot flips red, Im very serious

Why did you go from 'not tunneling, just pressure' to 'seriously this is scum'?

Also just for my own understanding: what is the expected outcome of a 'pressure' vote? Are you hoping that the slot will suddenly improve their content, do you expect a claim, are you looking to see who joins the wagon?

the fact that bubblez disappeared for so long after the exchange just made me feel more confident of it being a scumslot but I was def overselling my confidence to try to sell the wagon

Im hoping to pressure the slot to produce more content that I can use to better sort, AND im trying to see who is willing to vote there and who isn't

This is something I do as town, since I think it helps more for me to solve the slot Im pressuring / gauge other reactions. Mak also doing it and taking the disappearence of their pressured slot as more damning makes sense to me

Not really. Alright, what's your bottom four as of currently, Mak?

Bubblez, fred, laser, bessie

Heury kinda at null line, tbh bessie is too

Counterpoint to all my above post is this. I could see this being ALL town. And like, at some point you have to hold people accountable for their reads

But yes everyone who is not voting should be voting at this point or youre kind of griefing

Quote pinging all the people not voting, time to make it happen we are under 6 hours to deadline I think

More of Mak actively trying to get votes/wagons forming

EGW give me cliffnotes on boom ill sheep you and sab there if theres something there

egw is boom really a more prudent long term play than bubblez or fred here

fred made it to late game last game and has basically given us nothing this game so tbh I think this is the safest play and could hit coasting scum

securing 8 on boom sounds like a big reach imo I really dont think we can lock in anyone other than bubblez or fred here

I will say that this soft defense of Frog and , active redirect/signaling to Fred reads a bit scum motivated, specially if Frog flips scum to keep in mind. There's also a bit of defense of hippo because of the claim, but given their pressure about the handshake stuff and reaction I dont think they are teamed (and hippo is stronly town to me)

[Santygrass]

TL;DR at home for people who dont wanna read all my yappings

* JC and Somi still need to claim their flavor (Game of procedence, and if aligned with shepard and/or Lord of Calamity)
* Phillip needs to claim aswell (Game of procedence, and confirm if not aligned with Lord of Calamity as implied by omission by hippo's claim)
* I elaborated on Hippo townread. Everyone should sheep , or if not adress where I am wrong there
* Elaborated on what I saw towny from Mak in D1. Not the same confidence as Hippo (Specially considering the lackluster D2) , but still the conlussion is that Im leaning town on them

[JC_DADDY25]

I have checked rule 12 , and its true that implies some type of role. Wouldnt say resurrection is my first thought , and moreso maybe a Medium ? But yeah that rule implies that there will be some after-death mechanical thing happening

Bessie flipping psychic is after death mechanical

How so? Psychic isnt a self watcher?

Can you explain this take a little more, considering the info we have been given.

[Santygrass]

Bessie flipping psychic is after death mechanical

How so? Psychic isnt a self watcher?

Can you explain this take a little more, considering the info we have been given.

Bop already elaborated on it. As in, Adum explaining what Psychic did this game .

From Context Im getting that Psychic for heury is what I consider to be a medium (Talk with dead people) , which in this game it is not.

JC , please claim your flavor alignments please . (Wether you are aligned with a Shepard and/or Lord of Calamity , and what game are you from) . Now, please.

[JC_DADDY25]

With Shephard, not with Lord
Zesteria

The claim of what info flavor cop can get seems odd. They can see what game someone is from but not alignment seems baseless, especially when reading through the list that's been put together.

Right now, according to the list Santy and Madge stand out, because they are from both games.

But more importantly, Huery's claim of being Therion, but not elaborating on what that means since it isn't a game.

[JC_DADDY25]

How so? Psychic isnt a self watcher?

Can you explain this take a little more, considering the info we have been given.

Bop already elaborated on it. As in, Adum explaining what Psychic did this game .

From Context Im getting that Psychic for heury is what I consider to be a medium (Talk with dead people) , which in this game it is not.

JC , please claim your flavor alignments please . (Wether you are aligned with a Shepard and/or Lord of Calamity , and what game are you from) . Now, please.

Adum explained what he considers a psychic in this game, but you're asking if psychic is a self watcher? I've had a little trouble with this as well, as it didn't make sense for someone to be able to self target.

But we know that isn't true.

[Santygrass]

With Shephard, not with Lord
Zesteria

The claim of what info flavor cop can get seems odd. They can see what game someone is from but not alignment seems baseless, especially when reading through the list that's been put together.

Right now, according to the list Santy and Madge stand out, because they are from both games.

But more importantly, Huery's claim of being Therion, but not elaborating on what that means since it isn't a game.

Im pretty sure people knowing flavor can piece what it mean. At most is probably telling to what character they are haha. So its a slip of giving more information than required which kinda reads as a genuine claim and not a fake one. From what I read is a term only used in Berseria, which is why I infered they were form that game.

Now Only @somitomi is left

[Santygrass]

Can you explain this take a little more, considering the info we have been given.

Bop already elaborated on it. As in, Adum explaining what Psychic did this game .

From Context Im getting that Psychic for heury is what I consider to be a medium (Talk with dead people) , which in this game it is not.

JC , please claim your flavor alignments please . (Wether you are aligned with a Shepard and/or Lord of Calamity , and what game are you from) . Now, please.

Adum explained what he considers a psychic in this game, but you're asking if psychic is a self watcher? I've had a little trouble with this as well, as it didn't make sense for someone to be able to self target.

But we know that isn't true.

Im asking Heury what they meant with psychic being an after death mechanic, because to my understanding psychic was a self watcher, which is what Adum explained was what the psychic did

[Santygrass]

While we are still sharing this moment, JC what are your reads?

[Santygrass]

@Santy Rule 12 would certainly cover my situation. No idea if any other powers exist which would preclude people from reading spoilers upon death.

EGW putting up several different possible scum teams and varying them based on who was voting for him, and now coming back around to the Mak/ahippo(phillip) team he was pushing due to what I think was a crap reason is so very icky. I think he should be votable.

Also, I didnt properly reply to this, but your stump situation was revealed at the moment of your dead and would be quite obvious the flip happens you are still allowed to keep talking in game so no gojoe spoils no?

Like, we had a Adum game with also a stump that didnt have that rule signalized to the players I feel like, so something to keep in mind

[JC_DADDY25]

EBWOP: being devoured is associated with Therions

And the main Therion is the protag of Berseria (Velvet)! But, also, the evil plan they're fighting against is using Therions. It would make sense for Velvet to have the ability to devour as a kill if they're in the game, and they very likely are, but its not a guarantee.

I agree with you that my thoughts are mainly complicated as the corruption kill on Moody seems much more likely to be a vig's target(which is accounted for in moody's "town redirector" theory) than the devouring kill on Bessie to me. I'd be hard pressed to imagine who was scum reading bessie hard enough to vig her last night, so it almost has to be a scum or sk kill to me. And corruption certainly doesn't read as a vig kill-that's explicitly what you're fighting against in both games!

This is what troubles me about the Therion claim...If the evil plan in Zestiria uses Therions it is not a good look, but then you look at Violet bring the protagonist in Besteria and you think maybe it's okay... but either way Therions devour, including Violet.