Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

[Wam]

Egw you post too much. Here is my summary of you non scum slip on sabrar read of huery.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Fist push about Boom read.

Wam/Sabrar/Bubblez/Bop, these 4 I do want to look at closer today. Sabrar I don't want to consider for elim. Bubblez is still higher on my list for elim.

I'm curious why no mention of Boom here. What's your read on him currently?

This post from Heury is very concerning: Post

Links to

I love you. I hope we get to chat and hang out outside the game. Anyone want to pounce on BoomFrog with me?

But I don't really see what's so concerning about the post comes off relaxed which tends to be townie.

You may want to elaborate more on why you think this?

Note this post: EGW vote on Boom. I've felt this was odd, but at the time, Heury has been a strong hater for Boomfrog. However, he didn't join me when I voted him. Yet, then he posts this:

I love you. I hope we get to chat and hang out outside the game. Anyone want to pounce on BoomFrog with me?

Seeing that felt so weird to me, but it didn't click to me until you asked Heury about JC being his scumread. Did you note why he didn't respond to you?

You handsome man you, join me. Also, how do you feel about Boom voting Bubbles?

My memory is not the best but I think it was Boomfrog that once said he doesn't vote scum partners on D1. If Bubbles flips scum, Boom wouldn't be by top consideration for D2

This was his reasoning to stay off Boom and to push Bubbles/Somi.

Ok I get the jot going for Boom is a bit odd but surely only AI of huery and Boom are partners?

I still feel Heury may be our indy, if not he's scum. He's doing really well at trying to appear town, I'll give him that.

This is a very good observation.

I thought only Moody was stumped. I am fully aware that I am mis-yeeted D1 or D2 more often than not, so I have been putting in a purposeful effort to sound town, so that's likely what your noticing. I can't say you're that bad at the game for noticing that detail I do agree with your reads list for the most part, but disagree with your scum read of Sabrar and I think you should take a closer look at Wam.

This is Heury's response. Props to him admitting it, however history shows he's done this as mafia.

I have also tried to appear more town as town in the past to be less elim bate I'm not seeing it as damming.

Chasing indies is a terrible idea in this game-state. We absolutely need a flipped scum so we can analyze connections.

I'm not claiming he is indy. I'm claiming he is trying to appear town, of which I have seen him do as scum. His play here, is forced.

Have you ever seen him do it as town? Or just as scum?

Questions in there for egw but it boils down to 2 key points to me..

Weird interactions with Boom but this is only AI in my opinion if they are buddies.

Claiming to try to appear more town which I'm probably more sympathetic to than most having also had a history of being elim bate.

[AdumbroDeus]

phillip1882 replaces ahippo!

[Sabrar]

@boomfrog: now that almost everyone claimed, can you please answer this?

[Wam]

Welcome Phillip!

[Santygrass]

Egw you post too much. Here is my summary of you non scum slip on sabrar read of huery.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Fist push about Boom read.

Wam/Sabrar/Bubblez/Bop, these 4 I do want to look at closer today. Sabrar I don't want to consider for elim. Bubblez is still higher on my list for elim.

I'm curious why no mention of Boom here. What's your read on him currently?

This post from Heury is very concerning: Post

Links to

I love you. I hope we get to chat and hang out outside the game. Anyone want to pounce on BoomFrog with me?

But I don't really see what's so concerning about the post comes off relaxed which tends to be townie.

You may want to elaborate more on why you think this?

Note this post: EGW vote on Boom. I've felt this was odd, but at the time, Heury has been a strong hater for Boomfrog. However, he didn't join me when I voted him. Yet, then he posts this:

I love you. I hope we get to chat and hang out outside the game. Anyone want to pounce on BoomFrog with me?

Seeing that felt so weird to me, but it didn't click to me until you asked Heury about JC being his scumread. Did you note why he didn't respond to you?

My memory is not the best but I think it was Boomfrog that once said he doesn't vote scum partners on D1. If Bubbles flips scum, Boom wouldn't be by top consideration for D2

This was his reasoning to stay off Boom and to push Bubbles/Somi.

Ok I get the jot going for Boom is a bit odd but surely only AI of huery and Boom are partners?

I still feel Heury may be our indy, if not he's scum. He's doing really well at trying to appear town, I'll give him that.

This is a very good observation.

I thought only Moody was stumped. I am fully aware that I am mis-yeeted D1 or D2 more often than not, so I have been putting in a purposeful effort to sound town, so that's likely what your noticing. I can't say you're that bad at the game for noticing that detail I do agree with your reads list for the most part, but disagree with your scum read of Sabrar and I think you should take a closer look at Wam.

This is Heury's response. Props to him admitting it, however history shows he's done this as mafia.

I have also tried to appear more town as town in the past to be less elim bate I'm not seeing it as damming.

Chasing indies is a terrible idea in this game-state. We absolutely need a flipped scum so we can analyze connections.

I'm not claiming he is indy. I'm claiming he is trying to appear town, of which I have seen him do as scum. His play here, is forced.

Have you ever seen him do it as town? Or just as scum?

Questions in there for egw but it boils down to 2 key points to me..

Weird interactions with Boom but this is only AI in my opinion if they are buddies.

Claiming to try to appear more town which I'm probably more sympathetic to than most having also had a history of being elim bate.

Wam, what is your read on heury btw?

Im assuming this is you elaborating per EGW request on what you think lf their push and points towards heury, which you seem to not share.

But like, do you think they are town? If so, why and how much confidence you have in that?

[Santygrass]

Hi phillip ! Lets form a sub masonry with somi and dominate the game :hmmyes:

Let me know if you want help in any regard to help to get up to date on things

[Wam]

I have them lean town. There is some oddities in their play but I generally associate more content with Town heury and there's a relaxdness about some of their posts that pings townie.

I'm working on my reads list for tomorrow. I'm worried that there are only a few of us discussing today and some people are coasting.*

Im also worried that our lack of consensus and any form of agreement probably comes down to good.scum players is correct. I think boom said this already?

*yes I know this is hypocritical given my play the 1st half.the day.

[Santygrass]

Gotcha , take the time you need to form a readlist, but I would personally appreciate if you give me your current PoE. Aka, the players you are not townreading or leaning town atp

[AdumbroDeus]

Countdown corrected, it is:Day 2 ends Thursday January 30th at 2 am.

[somitomi]

I've gotten a lot of strong town pings from EGW over the two game days, I'm going to have to think about this whole thing a bit.

My interpretation is that he panicked when I switched to him and he desperately tried to put together any kind of alternative that he could sell. He was not interested in my solve, he immediately OMGUS-d me and gave up on his read on you. A complete 180 just because I voted him.

I'll be honest, that doesn't look too good from where I'm sitting

Ok nevermind, EGW claimed and doesn't 110% think Heury is scum anymore, maybe I am a butterfly dreaming to be somitomi...

@somitomi readlists pls?

Well I don't have much time tonight and somehow this game is damn near 50 pages already, y'all need to chill, but it's long overdue at this point, so here you go. The only part of this I feel any certainty about is the top of the townpile though

Town/I have a grip on them
moody: treestump
Heury: I feel a bit iffy basing a read on a mod mistake, but the cat's out of the bag and that sequence of events only makes sense with town!heury
Bop: the person I'm most vibing with so far
ahippo/philip: as said before, this feels a lot like newbie town play to me, especially focusing solely on using their ability to prove themselves. Unlikely to come from scum
Sabrar
madge
Santy
BoomFrog
Wam
Mak
JC: has done very little to the point that it's starting to alarm me
EGW: has been all over the place and at times it's scum flailing for anything to stick to the wall and other times it's super wound-up town on some kind of nootropic-induced trip going through theories faster than I can blink
Scum/No clue

Let's play a little game for all those who struggle with the content (but everyone can join):

Hypothetical scenario:
Player X claims or implies a night-result publicly. Player Y (who is town) happens to have mod-confirmed info that seems to contradict that result. It is not entirely impossible that there is a Player Z out there (let's assume they are town as well), whose night-result would resolve the discrepancy. However that night-result would need to come from an ability that is extremely specific and very seldom used.
What should Player Y do?

A) claim and hope to catch scum but potentially just force the reveal of multiple townies, or
B) wait and see

Let the voting begin...

I'll have a think about this later, but I'm out of today time and spoons.

phillip1882 replaces ahippo!

Hello

[Makhaira]

IRL is kicking my ass sorry guys I just havent had any free time to get properly caught up and I keep falling further behind

So EGW is claiming flavor cop now but that he targeted Boom and not Sab? And sab is claiming to have been targeted by two flavor cops last night?

And sab is also claiming that he was supported by hippo, but that that motivator/supporter result was not included in his psychic results but instead he received some independent notice of being motivated/supported?

Not sure all of this adds up. 3 flavor cops in one game seems pretty wack. If its true, one of those three has more than just flavor cop going on and is prob a scum role loaded up with some shit, possibly a scum joat

[Makhaira]

My bottom 3 rn based on just who doesnt seem to be really moving the ball much would be madge wam and JC but thats a very broad strokes take

[Santygrass]

IRL is kicking my ass sorry guys I just havent had any free time to get properly caught up and I keep falling further behind

So EGW is claiming flavor cop now but that he targeted Boom and not Sab? And sab is claiming to have been targeted by two flavor cops last night?

And sab is also claiming that he was supported by hippo, but that that motivator/supporter result was not included in his psychic results but instead he received some independent notice of being motivated/supported?

Not sure all of this adds up. 3 flavor cops in one game seems pretty wack. If its true, one of those three has more than just flavor cop going on and is prob a scum role loaded up with some shit, possibly a scum joat

No, Boom was the claim of JOAT that used psychic on themselves, and know two flavor cops targeted them.
EGW claims to be one of them basically so there is no incongruency , pending Sabrar claim. Sabrar only claimed action is to confirm that they targeted you Mak , and are asking you to claim for some reason.

Hippo motivated Sabrar, but its next night in which motivation is going to take effect

[Santygrass]

Why are you saying *three* flavor cops would be wack?

[Makhaira]

Ah right my bad misremembered it was boom who claimed as psychic not sab and yeah sab said he targeted me

Im willing to claim if yall want me to given I havent given yall much to work with this phase, though Id like to hear sabs rationale for the demand first

[Bop]

Also Bop, I kinda think that our solves/reads are like *very* similar. Like, switch Sabrar with somi in my reads and we kinda have the same reads (maybe you trusting madge a bit more wether its my top townlean) .

It makes me feel better about what I'm cooking here in regards to solving, but also uhm why are you not seeing it. Or why "Is trying to solve and has unique ideas" apply to Sabrar and not myself as well. Like it feels like your read on me is a bit reductive on my actual play here

Back for the night.

I'll go compare your latest reads list to mine.

You also are incredibly active and direct, Sab's mechanical ideas that are not yet revealed grabbed me a bit more and moved them up. If those don't come that reflects worse. If Wam clears correctly I'd obviously reconsider on you, like I said my scum readings today don't work both in that I don't think I have enough at 2 and you and Wam do not seem like teammates. I'm working out a mechanical solve for at least one player that I think I've almost got but don't want to run out the day clock waiting for it to click.

[Makhaira]

Why are you saying *three* flavor cops would be wack?

Because I got confused and thought sab said he was targeted by 2 diff flavor cops, and then EGW was ALSO claiming flavor cop that targeted boom

When in reality boom is just claiming two flavor cops targeted him and now EGW is simply claiming to have been one of them

[EGW]

My bottom 3 rn based on just who doesnt seem to be really moving the ball much would be madge wam and JC but thats a very broad strokes take

What are your full reads at this moment, not just bottom four.

[Bop]

Let's play a little game for all those who struggle with the content (but everyone can join):

Hypothetical scenario:
Player X claims or implies a night-result publicly. Player Y (who is town) happens to have mod-confirmed info that seems to contradict that result. It is not entirely impossible that there is a Player Z out there (let's assume they are town as well), whose night-result would resolve the discrepancy. However that night-result would need to come from an ability that is extremely specific and very seldom used.
What should Player Y do?

A) claim and hope to catch scum but potentially just force the reveal of multiple townies, or
B) wait and see

Let the voting begin...

Relying on a player Z to maybe exist and come forward carries more risk, if player Y ends up getting either voted out or night killed before using their info. Revealing townie specifics can be bad bc of the advantages it give scum, but revealing scum balances the ledger. In my opinion since town has the biggest information gap, they are helped more from information.

[Bop]

Also, Hello phillip!!!

[Bop]

Well I don't have much time tonight and somehow this game is damn near 50 pages already, y'all need to chill

I knew going in the page counts here were intense but I was not ready. I've had four day games that ended by like, 34.

Also, @JC_DADDY25 and @somitomi, I may have just missed it but at least for JC I don't see it in this exchange

I checked my wiki page and I'm listed as in both games

Why did you check the wiki page?

Nevermind, I checked my info and answered my own question.

I'm sure for the last two it really doesn't matter who goes in what order, but just so we can be done with it and move forward as I think you're the last two left, could you claim your game and lord/shepherd alignment flavor?

Also, Mak, I don't think you included your game in yours unless I just misread. Totally understandable if you didn't with what's been going on. Hippo also didn't, which now unforch makes it phillip's problem.

[madge]

okay lordy i had a rough day yesterday so i'm running on fumes today. as per usual i will not participate in the last hour of the day, so i guess i'm voting now or soon? (update: oh okay the deadline is 24 hours later fair enough - this also means i'll be at work and i'll be busy so definitely don't expect me any time near deadline, i will pop in over my lunch break and skim and maybe change my vote)

okay so claim from egw. fine, believable, boomfrog hasn't said that the result was wrong, so i guess we're trusting it for now. i am a little worried that maybe it's scum

how do you think of this concept: could we have two scum teams that aren't exactly traditional scum teams, but they actually have a wincon of "only lord of calamity aligned people be alive" / "only shepherd aligned people be alive"? so then scum has to make sure they target their kills and massage the votes acordingly? it makes the massclaim rather regrettable at this point but it's also based on nothing much, other than the fact we seem to have two(!?) flavour cops that cop something that is completely useless. it seems like a fun and unexpected way to balance two scum teams, and also ends up with them eliminating each other (assuming they are aligned to the opposite of shep/calam from each other?) and isn't unfair because they can still endgame normally, just lets the game end earlier.

I also feel that given one of the new rules, there's a resurrection mechanism somewhere, which might operate based on these flavour alignments. but that's really spitballing.

Also I don't think there's anything wrong with changing your mind, just flip flopping implies to me that you weren't actually as confident as you seemed to be

It's more so I'm willing to drop a read if I realize I'm wrong and re-evaluate. However I over-correct at times. I also like to give scumreads I'm not confident in space to prove myself wrong, and yet Hippo and Mak have not proven me wrong. Hippo's major concern this phase was having Sabrar confirm his role is real, and nothing else.

I think it's disingenous you didn't quote my key point whic hwas that there's a difference betwene "oh i think so a nd so is scum probably" and going between 100% confidence on different people. THAT is what i was issue with.

@phillip: welcome!

@EGW: does your role/etc give any indication whatsoever of the benefit of knowing the flavour?

@anyone: has anyone been aligned to both shepehrs/calamnity or neither? i don't recall seeing it

[Santygrass]

I'm aligned with both , Im just that charming

[EGW]

I think it's disingenous you didn't quote my key point whic hwas that there's a difference betwene "oh i think so a nd so is scum probably" and going between 100% confidence on different people. THAT is what i was issue with.

Usually I'm voting my most confident read at the time. I always try to put thought into who I genuinely believe is scum, at all times. I don't usually vote for *probably* ever, but only as a compromise. I'm just very willing to reconsider when new information comes to me. I like to interact with players to improve my read. I overdid it this game, and have done so before as town. Confidence seems to be an issue I'm working on. As in, showing too much confidence. I think that's partly me having fun with solving.

[EGW]

@EGW: does your role/etc give any indication whatsoever of the benefit of knowing the flavour?

Only that my role is not an alignment cop because both town and scum can be aligned with a lord of calamity. Nothing else.