Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

[Sabrar]

For reasons completely different from EGW, I would also like to hear Mak's full claim.

[EGW]

I never said I wanted their full claim, nor do I care for it. I want their full reads list.

[Sabrar]

I know, I was just lazy to rephrase. I do want their claim.

[Santygrass]

Part of me is saying to me that thinking that the group of EGW/Sabrar/Frog are all town is just wishful thinking.

Specially considering the bessie nk (mostly sheeping Frog though here about this so hm)

[EGW]

Yet her two bottom reads were Hippo and Wam.

[Santygrass]

Part of me is saying to me that thinking that the group of EGW/Sabrar/Frog are all town is just wishful thinking.

Specially considering the bessie nk (mostly sheeping Frog though here about this so hm)

I mean... Maybe in a Wam/Jc world mayhaps hahahahaha

All roads lead me to Wam is not confbias I swear (said santy, as he was indeed confbiasing)

[Santygrass]

Yet her two bottom reads were Hippo and Wam.

This is true, hippo was also at the very bottom woweeee

[EGW]

Santy how are you reading Mak? How does he factor into your solve?

[Santygrass]

Btw I agree with Madge read somewhat. As in the part of reassessing being towny. With the difference that I dont think its an over exxagerated or /too much/ for EGW. Like, the display of both stubborness and those 180 reassessing that leads to another solve in their solve that make sense with the slots he was sussing before its just... Them replacing the slots with others in the solve like quite naturally? Idk I feel like Im both vibing with the stuff he is trying to solve , his belief in the scumhunt and simultaneously while seeing takes I dont agree and being a bit flabbergasted maybe by some confbias but at the same time the consistency and the /want to be right/ is just there to me

[Santygrass]

Santy how are you reading Mak? How does he factor into your solve?

I do think their D1 was towny, and I still eant to hold Laser read on him in consideration. But main issue is that their D2 with hindsight is like, so... Lacking. And other people have gotten townier, which is kinda making me doubt if they are town / could be the blindspot maybe not letting me reach the solve. But I dont have anything they have posted that stroke me as particularly scummy

[EGW]

Sure. Break down their D1 for me.

[Santygrass]

Town
Moody
ahippo
Boomfrog
Bop
EGW


Lean Town

Madge

Somitomi
Mak
heury

PoE

Sabrar
JC

Wam

Update

[Santygrass]

Sure. Break down their D1 for me.

Could take a stab at it later sure! Though it isnt the same confidence as hippo (specially considering at first I thought they were the stumped town lol). But its morese reliant on me vibing with most of the reads and the motivation near EoD to have a good wagon and just the waveforming in regards to have people vote I felt like were town notes

[Santygrass]

@somitomi readlists pls?

People should've been asked to leave a readlist along with their flavor claim frfr

[EGW]

People should've been asked to leave a readlist along with their flavor claim frfr

I strongly agree with this.

[EGW]

Could take a stab at it later sure!

That would be helpful thank you.

[Bop]

God every time I try to wrap my hands around the game another four pages or so slips through my fingers and all the stances change.

Today has been a rollercoaster. Slept through all the evening and night last night from a fever so didn't get to try to crack Sab's theory early. I could barely place EGW for more than a minute pre claim-the jumping around didn't seem advantageous or calculated as scum but also was still not reading as helpful as town: in the way that I and others could barely refute or even question part of a theory they had without half a page passing and they've moved on. I think, similarly to how I read Mak D1, there is a playstyle difference I struggle to reconcile. Currently believe the cop claim-faking it with the easy counter claim(s) out there would be beyond shortsighted.

Hasn't helped the ppl feeling scum to me don't fit well together. Currently my rest of the players badly organized takes (I'll make sure this is a list later) is Wam reads as scum (feel stronger about this after animal kingdom) Santy still reads as scum but would doing doing a hell of a bus if my Wam read is correct, Sab is actively trying to solve and has unique, specific ideas which I like, JC I haven't been able to read at all but I agree they've not weighed in heavy enough to make it easy, Ahippo and Boom might as well be the mayors for how I've read them and continue to, Heury I've gone back and forth on but I at least feel better since Animal Kingdom (That game only gave me ideas on the people I didn't go into it for) Madge has a thought process I like and is another person whose claim I believe which means I'm four-for-four on those, Somi I don't have solid opinions on and I went back and forth on bubblez before that, Mak I've read as town bc of actively hunting even when I usually disagree w their reads, but Mak also seems very aware of their meta and I don't want to lock them in there.

If I had to make a list it'd look something like this:

Organized Reads:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Is town and also a tree stump:
Moody

Likely Town
Boom - We agree on too much, actively hunts, I earnestly trust where Boom has gone and is going.
Ahippo(who has req'd replacement) - I believe the claim, I read his actions as town, I wish there were more actions.
Madge - Stand by her miller claim, and I tend to agree with her struggling to place people as explicit scum, especially at the game's pace. I like a lot of her takes.
EGW - I believe the claim (I'm four for four on those. maybe I'm a useful idiot to anybody that early claims.) We disagree on almost everything and I find a lot of their reads frustrating.

Leaning Town

Sab - butted heads mainly bc I was agreeing with Booms takes and defending the targeted by cops claims. Is trying to solve and has unique, specific ideas.
Mak - Feels like town from meta but don't want to fall too deep into meta reading blinding me.
Heur - Feels more town (in Animal Kingdom people noted enthusiasm from Town Heur in the same way) has gone big with reads recently, but I hate the sarcastic "here I go, trying to seem town again! " bit. I've seen too many scum pull that jokey claiming stuff so it always gets my attention.

Neutral Category Still Exists
Somi - Nothing bad has pinged me, but also not much good. Asks a lot of specific questions others haven't which I appreciate.
JC - I can't place them for anything, isn't taking strong swings. Will work on this one.

Leaning Scum: (one of which is fully pushing for the other-could be bussing but otherwise I don't know what to do with that)
Santy- still not happy with Santy's explanation of their initial read leaving out the Fred votes, and they speak in a way that feels very "here I am, a townie, solving together with all of you" that could be playstyle but comes off badly to me.
Wam - Wam's votes in the recent pages have felt more like making sure to take a side than taking a side they actually believed, and posts feel similar to Animal kingdom. Was the main pusher who had a vote active for the D1 Fred elim as well.

[Bop]

I know Im probably not going to convince you to townread hippo, but all I ask is that at least you keep a 'alternative' solve in mind considering v!hippo worlds, because its one of the reads I feel more confident about and would appreciate more overlap in our solves/views to see where does that lead

I already tried that and look where it lead me. Which, I will say in a way, is good that everyone locktowned him, because it allowed him space to abuse it, and not do anything with it. At the very least it seemed odd that he'd claim his target even though Mak suggested him not to do so. If I'm wrong on hippo, it's Boom. Yet you also top town him, and also I like his reactions to my wagon. So I think I'm not wrong here.

We disagree on what "abusing" townie status is. Ahippo didn't exonerate or damn a single person, which is what I think you'd want to do if people generally trusted you (also don't think that aspect, the "everybody locktowned him" has been wholly true.)

But it's more the last bit I want to understand. If ahippo flips town, why is that correlated to boom being scum? How are the two connected to you? Just process of elimination or something else?

[Bop]

Also did I miss it or are we just left with JC and Somi for the flavor claims?

[Santygrass]

Help me bus Wam hmmyes


Also I still think my reasoning in that {trying to dig into the votes on a shrugyeet just isnt worth it lol} . 2 of the early votes are conftown (laser and moody} , and bubblez autovoting making their wagon dies is what made the other votes fall there. Idk, there isnt much science, it can be whatever. Very easy for scum to justify, and natural for town to move to what was perceived as a townclaim so the panic of just going to the yeet that hasnt least resistance is just.. expected. I've seen it happen countless times.

And again, the only vote I can see as scummy is Wam, but that gies along in a bigger read, that is that Wam wasnt much involved reads wise, felt detached and just going UTR mostly. Fred vote is just part of it and I was already sussing him and would be hypocritical to think that a Fred vote is damning given the information I have

[Santygrass]

Like, I dont like to shade the yeets, but Fred one was just... Boring and without much real reasoning besides Fred playing like Fred.
But we also have forced plurality or whatever the rule is called to actually get a yeet so in a sense I dont use the same logic when solving or questioning votes near the end , because trying to consolidate is another priority and like, there wasnt other avenues other than Fred if Im not misremembering (maybe hippo? But to me hippo is town so even more moot. I dont think a wolf was really at risk unless we consider bubblez using heavy AtE with their final post )

[Santygrass]

Also Bop, I kinda think that our solves/reads are like *very* similar. Like, switch Sabrar with somi in my reads and we kinda have the same reads (maybe you trusting madge a bit more wether its my top townlean) .

It makes me feel better about what I'm cooking here in regards to solving, but also uhm why are you not seeing it. Or why "Is trying to solve and has unique ideas" apply to Sabrar and not myself as well. Like it feels like your read on me is a bit reductive on my actual play here

[Sabrar]

Let's play a little game for all those who struggle with the content (but everyone can join):

Hypothetical scenario:
Player X claims or implies a night-result publicly. Player Y (who is town) happens to have mod-confirmed info that seems to contradict that result. It is not entirely impossible that there is a Player Z out there (let's assume they are town as well), whose night-result would resolve the discrepancy. However that night-result would need to come from an ability that is extremely specific and very seldom used.
What should Player Y do?

A) claim and hope to catch scum but potentially just force the reveal of multiple townies, or
B) wait and see

Let the voting begin...

[Santygrass]

I would go for A option almost always. If the information is that relevant/possibly damning you go for it .

At most depending on the specifics I may wait a bit for it to be aknowledged and then claim the conflicting results and see how much the views of other players and stuff changes. Like when you have a red check on someone and wait until they post a readlist to out it :hmmyes: . But waiting too much hinders other town solves in my opinion

[Santygrass]

I suppose it also relies on how does that discrepancy implicates Player X.

Like if Y is a fruit vendor, and player X didnt receive their Fruit. Its like a lie player X wouldnt benefit in making as scum. So revealing the contradiction moreso implies hints of a Player Z interfering , which is not that important in theory to solving Player X. So the hope to catch scum isnt there