Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

[Sabrar]

Do you see any negative utility though?

Potentially, if we are in multiball and have (as speculated previously) scum flavor cops who need the info because they can only target specific people. Or an indie with a similar motive, or something similar.

I haven't been keeping track of the claim order so if someone could @me when it's my turn.

I think it is wam's turn. @wam

[Santygrass]

vote sabrar I have picked a side, im doing what I always say not to do and trusting boom.

Elaborate on why please.

Whilst.im tempted to say something flippant like vibes or coin flip I won't.

It goes back to.what I was saying day start about sabrar being likely to.shoot bessie and I have a memory of.some posts around the night results giving a tmi vibe I will.go.back and see if I can find them.

@sant

Your right I'm less involved this game. It's wine but TBH I'm less involved in games as town than scum. ,one of thoez who have played with me a lot cab confirm. Also I do have a lot going on IRL. Should be good from Monday though.

But TBH if my elim is needed to clear the confusion and find scum that's life.

I do think your being too obvious about bessie found wam and jc scummy one of them must have shot her. I always think NK analysis is v hard to get right and leads down the wrong paths

Interesting duality for sure. As for the Fred suspicion post, I already adressed it to Bop. Maybe just ISO Fref, its their twilight post questioning your JC read in specific. Im taking that as Fred's legacy of sorts. You ca say its moot or whatever, but that + bessie's read having you both as bottom is what made me notice you both as possible scum, and I think based on play you are the likeliest here, just for how *safe* most of your takes are being.

I have read your post by post analysis on why you agreed with EGW and it just doesnt convinces me as real tbh? But maybe I am biased. But it reads more as 'ok I have to go back and point some good posts from EGW to try justify myself' rather than you saying what you liked / was on your mind that made you vibe with egw process. The first hippo post you put there as liking the process/feeling towny is like, a huge disagree as well, since I still think it was kinda clear that the push there was a case of /having a conclusion and trying to force the post to fit said conclusion/ , rather than trying to solve hippo there

[Santygrass]

EGW, your posts on heury have been noted and Im mulling over them aswell btw. Yoir case may have some merit although I do not have confidence.

Like I kinda liked how they thought it was really a scumslip by Sabrar, and how they questioned about it, and dropped it when it was clarified. It feels like a hard state of mind/process to fake as scum .
I feel that when scum finds a town doing something that can be perceived as scumslip, they dont drop as easily?

But them having history of trying a points system as scum before and the trying hard/openly admitting to put effort in being more town than usual is kinda pingy.
Maybe Scum!JC is right and they are indy bwehehehe

[Santygrass]

I will go through the list and collect my town-pings today.

Waiting on this btw !

Now I go off to work, probably will be back here laaater in the night

[Bop]

This is a good point, specially considering a Joat kindof role (dont think the I was a typo there if you know what I mean)

Help me out here. I don't know what you mean.

JOAT stands for : Jack Of All Trades .
Frog said JOIT at first. Look where the A and the I are on the keyboard , it isnt typo material.

Instead of "All" you replace it with a word that starts with I . Which leads me to believe its a Jack of Investigative Trades, or something along the lines. So between investigative actions, they chose to self target with a psychic n1 which is weird imo

Thanks for the elaboration. I'm not sure this changes the point much than with a regular Jack.

If he knows both scum are cops, then there would be two.

I guess, but in this hypothetical would it not be more effective to claim cop if you're a scum cop who wants the info but also wants to lose the heat? Especially since you're risking trackers with the claim that you were targeted twice over.

I also just cannot imagine a scum faction with two cops game balance wise.


And at the end of the day, Sabrar fighting extra hard against Boom after Boom's idea, saying "I'm not against it" but not acting in a way consistent with that to me really does rub me the wrong way the longer I sit with it. I'd like to see if Sab's next posts change my mind.

Why are you certain boom is the scum cop? And relatedly:

@Hippo, According to Mak's prior experience as a motivator, Sabrar probably wouldn't know until this night. But this ups the stakes. If Sabrar is scum, then affording scum an extra night action in a game with three townies dead in a row is a nightmare. I think that's enough to push me the rest of the way to:

Vote: Sabrar

How many scum do you think we have in the setup?

Bottom of P35, lunchtime

For 1. I might've just articulated that post badly-I'm not! I actually trust Boomfrog as town and think their claim is legit-that they were targeted by two cops as was claimed. This post was in response to Heury's concept that Boom could be in a scumteam of which there are two cops, and then set about doing this claiming system. This was me exploring that and saying, "it doesn't make sense to me at all for that to have been the case".

And 2. How many scum do I think we have? Minimum 3 for 15, which could bring us from 12-9-6 to game over if we mess up both today and tomorrow with two nightkills happening. Keeping in mind two nightkills possibly being from having an sk/multiball, could be 4-5?

I'll also have to get to the last few pages that didn't notify me later in the day.

[Sabrar]

Unvote
Vote: EGW

I have a mechanical solve that says scum-team is {EGW, JC, Santy} by PoE.
I welcome people to argue against it either by pointing out connections or just general reasoning.
I might explain some of my observations later but providing full explanation would probably reveal too much info for scum.

[Bop]

And regarding votes on Fred in specific, to my perception was such a lhf that I could see anyone voting there and having low accountability. Like there's for sure scum voting Fred, but I dont think or know anyone to have a particular outing or out of place vote . Specially considering the movement away from bubblez after their self vote, and the fact that for a yeet to go through plurality is *needed* , which just makes the fred compromise just the easy solution regardless idk. I'd say Wam vote looks the worst maybe, but thats my own bias view because of how likely I perceive Wam to be mafia regardless looking at their overall stances on the game feeling detached or not much invested

Meant to address this! I do appreciate the response.

This is reasoning I can see somebody having and can consider. I can't reconcile "anyone could have voted here, lhf," with "we need to explicitly look into the people Fred called out", but maybe that's a disagreement.

However, can you see why to me, not having posted something like you did here in your reread until explicitly asked still rings badly? It just feels like a huge overlook to have left "the dayvote elimination that happened" out of a read overall.

[Wam]

I'm from tales of restriction, I am aligned with a lord of calamity I am not aligned with a shepard

[Wam]

Ebwop

I'm from tales of zesrtria.

Thanks autocorrect

[Wam]

Unvote
Vote: EGW

I have a mechanical solve that says scum-team is {EGW, JC, Santy} by PoE.
I welcome people to argue against it either by pointing out connections or just general reasoning.
I might explain some of my observations later but providing full explanation would probably reveal too much info for scum.

Not boom?

[Bop]

Unvote
Vote: EGW

I have a mechanical solve that says scum-team is {EGW, JC, Santy} by PoE.
I welcome people to argue against it either by pointing out connections or just general reasoning.
I might explain some of my observations later but providing full explanation would probably reveal too much info for scum.

Will look into this as I read. I know I have to get a new full reads list out and figure out my take on heury and Sabs new vote..

But in terms of the claim, I think @ahippo is next, with me on deck. I'm fine jumping the line if we want as I know deadline will get close again and ahippo seems to have less time to post, but also fine waiting.

[Bop]

EBWOP Not heury's new vote, the new vote on heury.

[EGW]

Reading through Day 1, there is no other points. So what I said is the case.

[EGW]

Sabrar - doesn't usually answer other's questions and of others without them responding right? -1

heury: I don't think I ever saw them using the point system. -1

[EGW]

Heury has a forced tone in this game, and focuses on a chart to be helpful, something I have only seen him do as mafia, example above. He is focusing on appearing town, as he has done in Millerizer Mafia when he was scum. When he is town, he doesn't care to do so, because he doesn't feel the need to seem town.

[EGW]

I feel that when scum finds a town doing something that can be perceived as scumslip, they dont drop as easily?

But them having history of trying a points system as scum before and the trying hard/openly admitting to put effort in being more town than usual is kinda pingy.

I think in that case scum would have to back off because they know town likely can explain a genuine thought process. However, I apologize Santy, I stated you were being snowed by Boom. However, it seems I'm the one being snowed.

[EGW]

I no longer believe Boom is scum. Sabrar is scum. His vote on me while waiting for my case on Heury is weird. If Heury flips scum, Sabrar is scum.

[EGW]

I wish things had been different and I was able to actually spend time reading and giving real reads. My day didn't go that way. Sabrar was my motivate target, and you'll see that they actively told me not to speak up about it. We'll see whether or not Sabrar knows or acknowledges it.

Why did you out Sabrar here, even though Mak suggested to you not to do so? You are next to claim flavor, please give your reads along with it.

[EGW]

Mak. Talk to me. I think I've solved the game, truly this time.

[EGW]

@bessie:

Sabrar – I feel Sabrar is off but am willing to chalk it up to his RL issues.

You know I don't like these types of reads because there is nothing tangible behind it. Could you point to specific instances where you think I'm off?

Ok. I will try to explain what I have been pondering.

Thank you all. Readlist and vote are planned for Saturday, I don't mind being pinged in the meantime if you have questions but I won't be checking in as often.

This feels different to me, something about it or the way you said it. My brain knows that you have things on your mind, with the unexpected death of your colleague, which is why I didn’t want analyze you D1 the way I usually would but even my logical brain can’t always completely control how I feel.

Disclaimer: my reads make sense from my own pov, others have different experiences and/or expectations. Especially true when I am talking about what I expect from other players, I am probably equally bad or worse at anticipating what they are likely to do as they are when evaluating me.

I don’t remember you ever putting this kind of disclaimer on your content. You are usually confident that even if your conclusions are not correct, that the reasoning that led you to those conclusions is logical and will make sense to others.

Makhaira: healthy paranoia and progression on multiple issues. Not too familiar with Mak's scum-game and don't have time now to dive into it, so it will have to do for now.

I also think this is odd because I think you’ve played with Mak when he’s been scum. Unless you forgot that Mak is FrozenFlame and I don’t think you forget stuff.

I noticed this on a re-read of Day 1 trying to case Heury. This is Bessie's insight on Sabrar.

[Makhaira]

Was thinking about the game and have a few mins over lunch

I have reason to believe that sabrar was not attempting to roleblock me by targeting me which is slight protown points for sab. Cant say much affirmatively tho about what he did do or try to do unfortunately

Can someone link me to this alleged scumslip by sabrar? I must have missed it because I have no idea what everyone is talking about when they mention that

Sorry all ive just been insanely busy and havent been able to give much undivided attention to the game this phase

[Makhaira]

Unvote
Vote: EGW

I have a mechanical solve that says scum-team is {EGW, JC, Santy} by PoE.
I welcome people to argue against it either by pointing out connections or just general reasoning.
I might explain some of my observations later but providing full explanation would probably reveal too much info for scum.

If you have a true PoE here, why flip EGW first to check it over JC? JC has more papertrail mitigation, if EGW is scum we continue to let him spew no? Same goes for Santy, lots of papertrail and frankly more WIM

[EGW]

Can someone link me to this alleged scumslip by sabrar? I must have missed it because I have no idea what everyone is talking about when they mention that

That was Heury's reasoning for scumreading Sabrar. I think Heury was faking that. Also, I now realize you and the whole town are being snowed by Ahippo. Now I have a strong hunch that he doesn't have a motivate as a claim at all.

[Makhaira]

Did bessie scumread sab? Could see him early eliming bessie tbh. But I think scum!sab only targets me N1 to NK me, RB me, or rolecop me. We obv can rule out an NK attempt barring some redirecter, Im pretty sure he didn't RB me, no idea of if he rolecopped me. So im leaning hes a town investigative PR paranoid of me and hoping to scum!me out on night mech as early as possible

[EGW]

Sabrar – I feel Sabrar is off but am willing to chalk it up to his RL issues. I don’t want to do a deep dive on his content today.

This was Bessie's read on Sabrar, Mak.