Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

[Sabrar]

Sabrar, Santy, read on Heury at the moment?

I'll reread tomorrow. Given that we don't know if this is multiball or not (or even just scum thinking it might be multiball), I'm finding it difficult to apply standard processes.

[Bop]

Also, you didn't explain why you chose self-Psychic as your action N1.

This is a good point, specially considering a Joat kindof role (dont think the I was a typo there if you know what I mean)

Help me out here. I don't know what you mean.

Sabrar, if you truly don't think any of those things would indicate alignment, even if you think Boomfrog should still be the day vote, even if it turns out there are no flavor cops and we only find out character and can look up game when somebody flips,what do you think it hurts to do the claiming that is being proposed? Is it still bad for us to get some information to compare to what's revealed at the flip?

Why do you want to compare to what's revealed at flip? At that point we will know the alignment anyway. I'm not saying claiming these things is bad, I'm saying it won't help.

If later we find a lie, then it stands to reason there was a purpose to have lied, and we'd be able to gleam something from that. I'm big on "more information creates more chances to catch people", and if there is something to be gleamed I don't want to cut it off at the head. If it won't/doesn't help it's at most a page of fluff and we move on.

This post from Heury is very concerning: Post

In what way?

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

I think not taking dead town legacies into account is what loses most of the games for town. Its not something you just blindly sheep of course, but it always does have weight imo.

Also I dont think Fred sus on you/JC was a motivation for you to vote them . As a fact they talked about it in twilight when they were already going to be yeeted. So its moreso "I trust the other flipped town might be onto something" . Specially considering its not only one, but two (bessie and fred)

I just reread the twilight bc I didn't recall the bolded bit and

@wam Day two, please give us a more detailed read than "this is normal" for JC

Is this, to you, an example of "Fred sus on JC/Wam?" Maybe it could have led to one, but "Fred sus on Wam/JC" seems like an extreme stretching of the truth here. I understand you've reread the game in a single day which I appreciate incredibly but I can't agree that that's what we're seeing here.

Yes, Im doing so considering how Fred plays the game. Like, they usually are pretty sharp/have good accuracy, but they dont give much reads.

Those ones were post Fred made knowing that they were dying cause it was in twilight, so in a sense Im giving them more importance because it feel like a legacy of sorts (and also like, the only takes Fred did this game lol) . If we were playing with Seven or Adum they would've been super against Fred as an elim because they tend to be just lhf not working much to pop off with reads later in endgame

I guess it's just so light. It is throwing shade but I'd say what that's worth is an updated read on JC from Wam (which we got here:)

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Why sabrar not others, I have a memory that Bessie has been good at reading sabrar before.

Wine at its finest but she failed to read me correctly in both PYP and Millerizer.

It is wine, but point taken.

I ignored somi as a possibility as a replacement it didn't feel like you would come in and go swinging for bessie. As for others I know I didn't kill bessie, boom I think would.keep.her around. Laser not sure about.

So who would I come in and go swinging for?

Having been scum.woth you recently I don't think you would.come in as scum replacement and start swinging at anyone

You would.go.for more.of a consensus building.

JC
Low content but that's normal and I like what is there.

What do you like about JC's content?

I liked the question her to you https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=84470#p84470

The tone of this one felt townie for a reason I'm struggling to articulate. https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=84504#p84504

Throwing out gut reads here https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=84904#p84904

That was pre my reads. Post then I like

https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=85111#p85111 this is someone trying to solve

And poking here https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=85301#p85301

I don't like this https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=85361#p85361 has two aspects that are hinting at tmi

That's all the responses I believe I owe.

Maybe Fred's reads are amazing in the endgame, but that comes with the added days of information as well.
Also, you've brought up Fred's elim a few times this game. Which I agree that we should!! There's a lot of mining there. But something I couldn't place has been bothering me, and I think I just figured out what it is.

You've been super active from the get which I love. And obviously, Fred being confirmed town and the first dayvote, there is a lot to mine from that. I agree that what's left behind from confirmed town is super important.

But why have you only discussed it from the perspective of who Fred suspected, and not the people who suspected Fred? Even in your post where you showed Laser's reads and the first Fred vote:

Town
ahippo
Mak
Sabrar
Bubbles
Madge
BoomFrog
moody
JC
Bop
EGW <------- Null Line
Wam
heury
bessie
Fred
Scum

Don't have super strong reasons for any of the below EGW group being mafia at this point, just haven't found enough evidence to convince me that they're Town.

Vote: Fred

Why is Bop so low?

Someone being above the null line being "so low" is for sure interesting.
Im interpreting this as Frog having a lowkey high townread on Bop that Im not really sure where did they get it from (I might have missed it but Im publicly noting it regardless)

There's no mention of it. And like, I can understand you literally can't know what Laser was thinking, so why waste time on it. Okay, fair. But not a single time have you brought up anyone else's vote on or pressure on Fred. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth, those are really critical events within the game that you'd think you'd have thoughts on when reading. Feels more like you hoping to push past a history that's not your fault but could implicate you. So I'd just like to ask directly since you have been very open and discussing a lot of things esp when asked.

What are your thoughts regarding this timeline and these votes (reposting my timeline of the day votes on Fred from page 18):

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

1. Laser Guy votes Fred around page 6-7, having Fred low in reads list.
2.Wam votes for Fred after Fred asks why he is low on Laser Guy's read list, mentions to "point to more contentful posts."
3. Moody votes for Fred-had recently put Fred as bottom two in a reads list.


---------------Everything under this line happened in the eight-6 hours before deadline-----------------------------



4. Ahippo votes for Fred-for explicit ""keeping as much distance between myself and the rope as possible. If I went to the trouble of claiming my power D1, I'd appreciate the chance to use it.
5.Bessie votes for Fred-changing from previous vote on ahippo once ahippo posted some reads. This vote was explicit and told Fred he had to provide reads.
4. Hippo unvotes Fred, and switches to Teh Bubblez thinking he was the more likely choice. Same reasoning as his prior vote.
5. EGW votes Fred, changing vote from ahippo. Based on later posts, seems bc ahippo would not garner the 8 votes this close to deadline.

---Bubblez's last post includes a self-vote------

6. Boomfrog votes Fred instead of Bubblez in response to post.
5. EGW unvotes Fred and votes for Boomfrog.
6. Mak unvotes Bubblez and Votes Fred, saying its the safer option to actually go through (and could hit coasting scum.)
7. Sabrar votes for Fred instead of Boomfrog. T-minus thirty minutes at this point.
8. EGW unvotes boomfrog and votes for Fred.

And Hammer!!

[Sabrar]

If later we find a lie, then it stands to reason there was a purpose to have lied, and we'd be able to gleam something from that. I'm big on "more information creates more chances to catch people", and if there is something to be gleamed I don't want to cut it off at the head. If it won't/doesn't help it's at most a page of fluff and we move on.

I'll try to be more clear. I am not against the idea of claiming those parts of our flavor. However I do not agree with Boomfrog (and you) that they will help us at this point and the way he presented the idea as the best thing since sliced bread is false. Boomfrog has been emphasizing his contribution as scum in the past, you can compare this post from Animal Kingdom with this one in this game.

[JC_DADDY25]

I think not taking dead town legacies into account is what loses most of the games for town. Its not something you just blindly sheep of course, but it always does have weight imo.

Also I dont think Fred sus on you/JC was a motivation for you to vote them . As a fact they talked about it in twilight when they were already going to be yeeted. So its moreso "I trust the other flipped town might be onto something" . Specially considering its not only one, but two (bessie and fred)

Did I vote or push Fred?

I dont think you understood the point I was making in that post. Its the other way around that Im signaling/boosting (the fact that two dead flipped towns were sussing you+Wam)

In regards to this... Since I misunderstood your point about Fred being yeeted when I wasn't pushing for or voting on his yeet, but you still felt it worth noting that him sussing me and now being elimmed is sus... where do you see him sussing me or anyone for that matter?

[madge]

Sabrar is very very mechanically minded. He should immediately be seeing the value of what I am proposing for partial claiming. And, he should be flipping his read and pointing out that I am tentatively town until we have proof of the cops existence or not. If I'm scum and was really double copped and claimed honestly, I will 100% be demonstrating that I am scum by asking for this mass claim. Once the mass claim came out, I would be shown as scum by the patterns that will surely emerge (if I was scum). This evidence should be changing his read on me.

I just.... really don't like this take. I'm no Sabrar but I am really mechanically minded and I don't see the value in this claim stategy at all. Assuming you're talking about the shepherd/calamnity thing, that is. If it's not alignment indicative, it gives us no info. If it is alignment indicative, scum will just claim what the majority has.

I also don't believe that two flavour cops visiting you is that much of a red flag. There could easily be two flavour cops in the game, one town and one scum (honestly this would further my suspicion that PIZZAZZ = multiball and maybe they're both scum flavour cops lol). Flavour cop could also be a general type of role, like maybe one cops our shepherd alignment and the other cops our calamnity. Or one cops our character name and the other cops the game we come from.

That said, one thing that does give me pause is Adumb is very opposed to using the word "cop" for roles like neapolitan, traffic analyst, etc. He famously said in Dancers "would you call a watcher a visit cop?". I remember this because I was going to call the traffic analyst in my game a "chat cop" if Adumb had RNG'd it, just for lols. I mentioned this to Sabrar at the time so it's kind of weird he didn't raise it.

@Boomfrog: did it say "flavour cop" in your result, verbatim? or was it something like "flavour reporter" or whatever?

@moody who should i vote for? going to have to log off soonish but can prob squeak out a quick post in the morning. i'm unsure after that and unsure of the deadline at this point.

@madge I still want to know who would be your preference in regards to vote. Last time when you were scum you used the town stum to not have much accountability for your votes, so like while I do understand if you are short on time to try to rely on sheeping a confirmed town, I still want you to see yourself take some stances, since your voteable pool is like, very broad from your last post

Look, the reason I won that game as scum was because I acted exactly as I would have as town (except for the killing people in the night part). I don't have a good read, and I trust moody over myself, but it doesn't extend to me voting from my 'good' pool. I might edit this when I finish the thread but at the moment I'd vote boomfrog - though this is admittedly complicated by the fact I won't be on at deadline (I don't think we have an official deadline again?), and I kind of want to vote someone who is likely to be one of the consensus picks so my vote can be helpful in the Last Hour Scramble.

As to the size of my voteable pool? The way I have decided I can read is by putting players in a "provisionally town" box and being willing to go with the town consensus about the rest. I find it easier to look at a post and be like "oh that person is town" than to be like "oh that's clearly a scum move". The vibe I get is most other players will have 3 players they won't vote out, 3 players they want to vote out, and say 5 they'll compromise on. I have 6 players I won't vote out and 5 I'll compromise on. So I've got strong reads on the same number of players, just polarised differently.

Reposting reads, again in no particular order:

good:
santy, ahippo, sabrar, somi

neutral:
egw, mak, wam, bop, jc, heury

thin ice:
boomfrog

random thought: could we have a condemner (new name for the role that has a target they want to vote out)?

My holiday starts in an hour or two, so this is going to be my last substantive post for a little while.

[boomfrog]

Sabrar is very very mechanically minded. He should immediately be seeing the value of what I am proposing for partial claiming. And, he should be flipping his read and pointing out that I am tentatively town until we have proof of the cops existence or not. If I'm scum and was really double copped and claimed honestly, I will 100% be demonstrating that I am scum by asking for this mass claim. Once the mass claim came out, I would be shown as scum by the patterns that will surely emerge (if I was scum). This evidence should be changing his read on me.

I just.... really don't like this take. I'm no Sabrar but I am really mechanically minded and I don't see the value in this claim stategy at all. Assuming you're talking about the shepherd/calamnity thing, that is. If it's not alignment indicative, it gives us no info. If it is alignment indicative, scum will just claim what the majority has.

If scum claim what the majority have and are lying then that gives the flavor cops a record to test against. This is a huge win for them. Just think of me as the representative of the flavor cops trying to get the best situation for them possible without outing who they are.

I also don't believe that two flavour cops visiting you is that much of a red flag. There could easily be two flavour cops in the game, one town and one scum (honestly this would further my suspicion that PIZZAZZ = multiball and maybe they're both scum flavour cops lol). Flavour cop could also be a general type of role, like maybe one cops our shepherd alignment and the other cops our calamnity. Or one cops our character name and the other cops the game we come from.

That makes sense from a purely setup perspective, but doesn't make sense with the fact that they both targeted me N1. Scum looking for something specific would probably want to target someone who was not about to be yeeted by town the next Day. Investigating me is a townie action.

That said, one thing that does give me pause is Adumb is very opposed to using the word "cop" for roles like neapolitan, traffic analyst, etc. He famously said in Dancers "would you call a watcher a visit cop?". I remember this because I was going to call the traffic analyst in my game a "chat cop" if Adumb had RNG'd it, just for lols. I mentioned this to Sabrar at the time so it's kind of weird he didn't raise it.

@Boomfrog: did it say "flavour cop" in your result, verbatim? or was it something like "flavour reporter" or whatever?

After careful inspection of rule 5 it seems I am allowed to quote non-role mod PMs as long as I don't report any metadata. So, yes, the roles were specifically, [Type of flavor cop] Flavor Cop. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Bop]

If later we find a lie, then it stands to reason there was a purpose to have lied, and we'd be able to gleam something from that. I'm big on "more information creates more chances to catch people", and if there is something to be gleamed I don't want to cut it off at the head. If it won't/doesn't help it's at most a page of fluff and we move on.

I'll try to be more clear. I am not against the idea of claiming those parts of our flavor. However I do not agree with Boomfrog (and you) that they will help us at this point and the way he presented the idea as the best thing since sliced bread is false. Boomfrog has been emphasizing his contribution as scum in the past, you can compare this post from Animal Kingdom with this one in this game.

(Regarding the first sentence, sorry if I misread! I know I missed like a full post from Laser Guy in day one so trying to be more careful abt that.)

I understand I have been trusting Boom all game(quickly becoming an unpopular opinion), so my read is a charitable one-but if the claim of two flavor cops is true, since we don't know what exactly they'd look at(and can't find out without having said cops claiming which obviously is not a good idea) being able to potentially give them something to compare their investigations to is critical to maximizing their impact. And I don't think that'll save us as the silver bullet to the game-but I don't think it's unreasonable to think it's still worth potentially helping us later by planting seeds of information. As to "well then why not do full claims" I think the risks ramps up there, where then scum can way more infer potential abilities they'd want to get rid of.
I guess I also just don't understand the read of it being a thing that maybe should happen, but later. I don't see what we gain by pushing the convo to day 3 or 4, and I don't see what we lose doing it today. I think we're just going to be in total disagreement on this.

Also, if this was a gambit by Boomfrog to gain trust and lose heat, it certainly isn't working!

I'll look at the animal kingdom game(it's short thank god), I do appreciate you and others linking specifically to some of the meta for players that haven't been around.

random thought: could we have a condemner (new name for the role that has a target they want to vote out)?

Enough characters have a revenge plot for it, but also Fred was one of those (Dezel) and didn't have one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If scum claim what the majority have and are lying then that gives the flavor cops a record to test against. This is a huge win for them.

Like, truly. As a game, are we saying this is a scum outlook to have? Arguing against information is like, the biggest tool scum has.

[AdumbroDeus]

Haven't seen may responses on whether you want a full extension or the Monday I offered.

So if I don't see responses by tomorrow afternoon (EST) I'll assume you're using the full extension and set the deadline for Weds/early morning Thursday EST

[boomfrog]

Sabrar vs BoomFrog.... FIGHT!

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

He should immediately be seeing the value of what I am proposing for partial claiming.

Incorrect, you and I do not operate on the same knowledge.

You have all the knowledge regarding this issue that I have plus more. Yet even in the hypothetical where you believe my claim you still reject that this is a very useful strategy.

And, he should be flipping his read and pointing out that I am tentatively town until we have proof of the cops existence or not.

Incorrect, your claim was made under duress therefore does not hold the weight to cause such a complete flip.

If you will think about it in retrospect with my claim, I've been planning to eventually reveal this information since this post. So my claim was not made under duress. Unless you think I was already under duress at the start of D2.

If I'm scum and was really double copped and claimed honestly, I will 100% be demonstrating that I am scum by asking for this mass claim. Once the mass claim came out, I would be shown as scum by the patterns that will surely emerge (if I was scum).

Incorrect, that's why there are fake-claims. This is TMI, town cannot know if such patterns exist because we already know that town can come from both games and align with both sides.

You are overcompensating for your TMI or just trying to win this argument by throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. It's intuitive that this information is important if town is given roles to detect it.

His read on me has been incredibly lazy. He initially scum read me for very slight and hard to explain reasons and then just "read everything in a biased light" from then on.

You didn't object to the quality of my sus on you D1. You didn't object to my summary D2. But now that you're forced to find a new target you suddenly notice all the points that I have already brought up.

It was a fine quality for D1. But locking in on a vague D1 read is what is scummy. I've been waiting for you to reconsider and reevaluate your read. Town!Sabrar would have reevaluated by now. There is no way town!Sabrar says, "At this point I basically enter tunnel-mode, which means I interpret your later content in a more negative light by default. This is exactly the attitude that I'm trying to combat in EGW and I'm fully aware of the hypocrisy, so I'm trying to fight it internally." and then doesn't actually reevaluate. I said as much at the start of the game.

Also, you didn't explain why you chose self-Psychic as your action N1.

Fully explaining would require revealing what my other powers are. But I will say that N1 was the best opportunity to get something useful from Psychic. I was expecting to be targeted by a full cop and maybe a tracker or something. My other powers didn't seem likely to get useful results N1 and this was at least some setup info that would be valuable for confirming actions during a full claim. I was originally trying to be the towniest townie who ever towned so I'd get NEed and doctored N1, which is why I had no D1 gambit or shenanigans, but I obviously failed that mission.

If later we find a lie, then it stands to reason there was a purpose to have lied, and we'd be able to gleam something from that. I'm big on "more information creates more chances to catch people", and if there is something to be gleamed I don't want to cut it off at the head. If it won't/doesn't help it's at most a page of fluff and we move on.

I'll try to be more clear. I am not against the idea of claiming those parts of our flavor. However I do not agree with Boomfrog (and you) that they will help us at this point and the way he presented the idea as the best thing since sliced bread is false.

Great, so you aren't opposed. So let's do it. Since it's totally irrelevant, why don't you claim next? If anyone besides Sabrar would like help understanding why this is such a great move for town I'm happy to answer questions.

Boomfrog has been emphasizing his contribution as scum in the past, you can compare this post from Animal Kingdom with this one in this game.

Interesting that you fail to mention I did that in Animal Kingdom to try and mimic my normal town playstyle. And you fail to consider that yourself even though I did the same thing in PyP as well. Yeah, sure don't town read me for it, but don't scum read me for it either.

Summery for the lazy. Sabrar is following the same gameplan from PyP last year. Let me do all the work and get all the attention D1 of trying to scramble and make a call D1. Then powerwolf D2 to get me yeeted for the crime of having a bad D1 read. Town!Sabrar would be a lot more hesitant and going back and forth trying to reconcile if I was town or not. Town!Sabrar would not say, "I'm tunneling and biased" and then not reconsider their reads. Town!Sabrar is a better scum hunter than that, just like I said at the start of D1.

Very excited to play again.

Vote: Boomfrog

Obviously he's never going to trust me ever again after PYP, so let's just get him out now and avoid the clash altogether.

Lol, nah. In retrospect you were obviously scum once you voted for me. I was just so frasseled by RL stuff and seven's stubbornness that one more "town failure" slipped under the radar. You are a better scum hunter that Seven and town!you would have voted for fonti or cheese.

And I was right about this too:

Some slight suspicion that his first jab at me was "Oh no, I'm scum again and have to hide from town!boomfrog AGAIN!" because I know he was sweating bullets in our last game together.

[boomfrog]

Haven't seen may responses on whether you want a full extension or the Monday I offered.

So if I don't see responses by tomorrow afternoon (EST) I'll assume you're using the full extension and set the deadline for Weds/early morning Thursday EST

I think Mon or Tue would be fine for most people, but I think @Makhaira should decide as he is most impacted by RL stuff. (And Madge, but she seems content with whatever)

[boomfrog]

since we don't know what exactly they'd look at(and can't find out without having said cops claiming which obviously is not a good idea)

For the record I know exactly what kind of flavor cops they are.

[boomfrog]

@Bop, it's time to vote with me. Sabrar is blatant scum. Yeet him toDay, or yeet me and then yeet him toMarrow.

[boomfrog]

@JC_Daddy, @wam, @heuristically_alone, it's time to make the call. Me or Sabrar. Pick a side and justify it.

[ahippo]

I wish things had been different and I was able to actually spend time reading and giving real reads. My day didn't go that way. Sabrar was my motivate target, and you'll see that they actively told me not to speak up about it. We'll see whether or not Sabrar knows or acknowledges it.

Doesn't he feel like floundering incompetent town though?

I feel so seen.

[Sabrar]

My day didn't go that way. Sabrar was my motivate target, and you'll see that they actively told me not to speak up about it. We'll see whether or not Sabrar knows or acknowledges it.

Yes, and you were supposed to take that hint. I did get motivayed, so I can act twice on N2, not N1. Mak also told you that you're misinterpreting your role and shouldn't claim, but whatever.

[heuristically_alone]

Are you reading JC as scum btw?

Heury, I noted you didn't answer this. I'd like to see you do that.

I'm actually slightly leaning a town on JC. Based on some of his content, I suspect he has extra information he is privy to and he may be interpreting it wrong.

@JC_Daddy, @wam, @heuristically_alone, it's time to make the call. Me or Sabrar. Pick a side and justify it.

I was also concerned when Sabrar mentioned that we know scum have fake claims. I 100% Sabrar would ask Mod's this question at start of game, but he does infer that everyone should know this, so still maybe a scum slip? I'm also still blindly tunneling you a bit. I am waiting on mods to confirm the claim of fake claims.

Wam/Sabrar/Bubblez/Bop, these 4 I do want to look at closer today. Sabrar I don't want to consider for elim. Bubblez is still higher on my list for elim.

I'm curious why no mention of Boom here. What's your read on him currently?

Still leaning scum. I am concerned about his claim. He was the first to suggest we claim our flavor alignments then just happened to be targeted by 2 flavor cops? The concern is that both he and a scum partner are flavor cops and it helps scum somehow if we claim.

Here's my thing:

If Boomfrog was making up a cop....why make up two?

If he knows both scum are cops, then there would be two.

Haven't seen may responses on whether you want a full extension or the Monday I offered.

So if I don't see responses by tomorrow afternoon (EST) I'll assume you're using the full extension and set the deadline for Weds/early morning Thursday EST

Full extension request from me please.

VOTE: Sabrar

Let's see what happens

[Sabrar]

I was also concerned when Sabrar mentioned that we know scum have fake claims. I 100% Sabrar would ask Mod's this question at start of game, but he does infer that everyone should know this, so still maybe a scum slip?

I did consider changing the wording but then it wouldn't have had the same flow, so I went with a bit of artistic freedom.

[Bop]

I'm fine with either deadline but I agree that I don't have a schedule where it'll effect me either way. Since other players want to go to Wednesday, you can consider me down for the full extension.

Back from the Animal Kingdom for the scum Boom read. (gonna have to forget abt Messie just to keep my opinions clear)
Also back from Pick Your Poison for the scum Sabrar read. God. Let nobody say I did not try to understand meta here. And like, both players make good points. Unfortunately you're both good players and your posting styles don't differ in obvious ways which is infuriating. You also regularly butt heads. When I read animal kingdom I did start to believe "hmmm. Boom does post similarly in this game" but then Boom posted the same way in PYP as town! One thing that I really thought was interesting was Sabrar calling back to Animal kingdom in PYP as scum to push a scum read on town Boom. While I think PYP's actions rings more true to this game, honestly I feel like all I learned is both of you are capable of being convincing to players who know you deeply here so meta is not going to solve the situation in front of my eyes. I should focus on what's being said here. I should have come to this conclusion earlier.

Wam/Sabrar/Bubblez/Bop, these 4 I do want to look at closer today. Sabrar I don't want to consider for elim. Bubblez is still higher on my list for elim.

I'm curious why no mention of Boom here. What's your read on him currently?

Still leaning scum. I am concerned about his claim. He was the first to suggest we claim our flavor alignments then just happened to be targeted by 2 flavor cops? The concern is that both he and a scum partner are flavor cops and it helps scum somehow if we claim.

Here's my thing:

If Boomfrog was making up a cop....why make up two?

If he knows both scum are cops, then there would be two.

I guess, but in this hypothetical would it not be more effective to claim cop if you're a scum cop who wants the info but also wants to lose the heat? Especially since you're risking trackers with the claim that you were targeted twice over.

I also just cannot imagine a scum faction with two cops game balance wise.


And at the end of the day, Sabrar fighting extra hard against Boom after Boom's idea, saying "I'm not against it" but not acting in a way consistent with that to me really does rub me the wrong way the longer I sit with it. I'd like to see if Sab's next posts change my mind.

I wish things had been different and I was able to actually spend time reading and giving real reads. My day didn't go that way. Sabrar was my motivate target, and you'll see that they actively told me not to speak up about it. We'll see whether or not Sabrar knows or acknowledges it.

Doesn't he feel like floundering incompetent town though?

I feel so seen.

@Hippo, According to Mak's prior experience as a motivator, Sabrar probably wouldn't know until this night. But this ups the stakes. If Sabrar is scum, then affording scum an extra night action in a game with three townies dead in a row is a nightmare. I think that's enough to push me the rest of the way to:

Vote: Sabrar

[Wam]

wed deadline please

[Sabrar]

And at the end of the day, Sabrar fighting extra hard against Boom after Boom's idea, saying "I'm not against it" but not acting in a way consistent with that to me really does rub me the wrong way the longer I sit with it.

You still don't understand. I'm not against the idea, I'm against the way Boomfrog proposed it. What would 'acting in a way consistent with it' look like in your opinion?

@Hippo, According to Mak's prior experience as a motivator, Sabrar probably wouldn't know until this night.

I've already claimed that I did get motivated.

If Sabrar is scum, then affording scum an extra night action in a game with three townies dead in a row is a nightmare.

And if I'm not then your misyeet loses 2 actions for town. This argument does not make sense.

[Sabrar]

You have all the knowledge regarding this issue that I have plus more. Yet even in the hypothetical where you believe my claim you still reject that this is a very useful strategy.

Precisely because I took the effort to spam the mods with questions I had a little bit more knowledge and that's why I think your 'very useful strategy' would not help us.

So my claim was not made under duress. Unless you think I was already under duress at the start of D2.

How in hell can you insinuate that you were not under duress at the start of D2? Without majority voting you could have been yeeted D1 and you yourself claim that "I was expecting to be targeted by a full cop and maybe a tracker or something."

But locking in on a vague D1 read is what is scummy. I've been waiting for you to reconsider and reevaluate your read.

Show me a game where I have reconsidered as town D2. You can't, and not just because I get killed N1 way too often. You have zero idea what it takes for me to reevaluate you.

Fully explaining would require revealing what my other powers are.

Very convenient, but to be fair that is the only response you could have given.

Great, so you aren't opposed. So let's do it. Since it's totally irrelevant, why don't you claim next?

I am from the Zestiria game, aligned with a Shepherd, not aligned with a Lord of Calamity.

And I was right about this too:

Some slight suspicion that his first jab at me was "Oh no, I'm scum again and have to hide from town!boomfrog AGAIN!" because I know he was sweating bullets in our last game together.

I could claim the same, not that any of this is relevant:

Ah, Boomfrog pretending not to hold a grudge so I won't go after him like in Animal Kingdom, very sus.

[heuristically_alone]

I was told that Mods could not confirm or deny that mafia have fake claims, so for now I can only conclude that Sabrar has been caught in a lie. If sabrar and boomfrog were scum partners, does anyone think boomfrog and sabrar could fake this conversation on the post previous to mine?


Ahippo – has been very transparent about lack of strong reads and confusion. Also they don’t feel defensive when being questioned or accused which I feel is more natural for town. That coupled with the early role claim and transparency of how it would be used (random number generator). I am concerned with the lack of scum hunting. UPDATE: Since Sabrar confirmed receiving motivator action then I’m assuming at this point ahippo is cleared town (much more likely) or sabrar and ahippo are scum mates (much less likely). If Sabrar flips scum, ahippo is still likely town

EGW- Scum hunting and taking care to dissect others posts and follow up with plenty of questions. They are open to discussions and willing to adapt their reads. Flipping Mak their scummiest read D1 is evidence evolving suspicions and in general his reads all seem to be uninfluenced by other players. EGW was also quite cocky about his understanding of competing wagons and how helped get competing wagons and reads based off of it. Town. If EGW is scum, could be a less active scum partner not pushing against him such as Laserguy/Somitomi

JC - Will share in near future. Town lean

Makhaira – There was something in D1 that Mak said that had me learning town, but now I can’t find nor do I remember what it was. I feel like it was something along the lines of I recall Mak having a manipulative nature and this game seems considerably less manipulative. They have been structuring their reads in a way that gives the necessary content but isn’t ordered perhaps purposefully to make it more difficult for scum to understand the reads. I am slightly concerned that Mak is so widely town read but most everybody and maybe only EGW is seeing through a charade but lean town., Potential scum partner is Boomfrog. There was an interaction where Mak seemed back and forth and could be a strategic effort to manage a scum partner’s slot without making it obvious.

Madge – If not a secret mod, then based off of lack or reads and only small bits of efforts here and there, this is typical madge behavior D1 and I do believe Madge always tries a bit harder as scum. Due to indifference to the game at this point, lean town.

Wam - Null working on read

Somitomi Null working on read

Bop – During D1 was the most active scum hunter. They were adamant on the importance of Day 1 content and showed some frustration towards players with limited D1 content which shows consist with their playstyle. Bop’s been consistently engaging and re-processing their reads. I particularly like 2 full reads lists D1 adapting to updated conclusions. Town lean. I think most likely scum partner is tehbubblez. There was a couple interactions between them that flagged for me during the time I was tunneling more on tehbubblez and Bop’s second read list dropped tehbubblez down to one of scummiest players at the point when is seem sure that tehbubblez would be the first elim.


TehBubblez - Same opinion at end of D1, except only slight scum lean now. If they are scum don't feel like they deserve to get away with that playstlye, so am rather hopefuly they are frustrated town.

Boomfrog- D1 Boomfrog almost felt too eager to make pushes. This read may be based off of my poor memory of Boomfrog’s gameplay, but he seemed too quick to lead town. D2 my concern is if he’s scum that he is misleading us right to scum’s hands if it helps scum to know our flavor alignments. This may be something that we can resolve as true or fact later in the game, so I’m fine with holding on the D2 yeet, but leaning scum, but not leaning as far as I was end of D1. No one seems to fit in as a scum partner but I don’t believe Boomfrog can be an indy, so maybe that should be taken into consideration as well as a point in their favor.

Sabrar - Currently assuming full scum due to potential scum slip.

[madge]

Happy with the Tuesday deadline for the record

What the hell on the sabrar thing. Everyone, please ask the mods yourselves to check. I will ask.

[AdumbroDeus]

Gonna take responsibility for a mod error here. I informed one player about something but mistakenly no commented to another.

My apologies.

[Sabrar]

So I believe I can explain why that mistake happened, but in order to keep the game integrity intact as much as possible I think we should move on and not focus on mod-interactions.