Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

[Santygrass]

Lol and next page Mak is also saying hippo is locktown because of the claim. Glad to be vibing with the stumped town :hmmyes:

[Santygrass]

random side note how did we not get santy to join this game I feel like they wouldve been a perfect addition if we have to lose adum and seven to modding

Mak manifested me frfrfr

[Santygrass]

random side note how did we not get santy to join this game I feel like they wouldve been a perfect addition if we have to lose adum and seven to modding

I may have broken his spirit last game

(I confirm. If Im hammered one more time without actually being given a chance to solve Im blasting y'all . What happened last game should be considered a war crime hmph)

[Santygrass]

Town
ahippo
Mak
Sabrar
Bubbles
Madge
BoomFrog
moody
JC
Bop
EGW <------- Null Line
Wam
heury
bessie
Fred
Scum

Don't have super strong reasons for any of the below EGW group being mafia at this point, just haven't found enough evidence to convince me that they're Town.

Vote: Fred

Why is Bop so low?

Someone being above the null line being "so low" is for sure interesting.
Im interpreting this as Frog having a lowkey high townread on Bop that Im not really sure where did they get it from (I might have missed it but Im publicly noting it regardless)

[Santygrass]

I guess I believe this and likely means you're Town. Your power is pretty strong though and as I suggested above, open claiming like this probably just puts a target on your back for the night kill (or helps scum narrow the search for better targets). I wouldn't bother even hinting at who you might target... it will be obvious down the line.

Big mistake here. I've let scum pass by in situations like this, for example the previous game where I was initially correct on Madge, but she turned out to be scum after all. Laser, you are disappointed by the reasoning Hippo gave, and so am I. That's the best pointer to them being scum regardless of claim.

BOMBASTIC side eye to this

[Santygrass]

That wording seems very specific, that it definitely seems like Hippo adapted their post with yours in mind. In the end, the interaction is weird, and he claimed pre-maturely and dipped out of the thread. I will say that wording is not common to myself, and I assume this applies to others besides yourself. He moved on to asking moody in the same page as Mak questioning him on this. Essentially, I think his thought process is that he felt he messed up, and claimed to get the exact reaction people are giving him, clearing him as town, while he isn't doing anything. Yes, I believe he is the vote for today, and better than your vote on Heury at the moment. Can you explain to me why Hippo is very likely town? Can you tell me what you believe separate from his claim?

"he dipped out of thread" and "he moved on to asking in the same page" being together is just wild. This is extremely a bad faith take in regards to hippo tbh

[Santygrass]

And like, hist thought process as town is really easy to see ? Like the obvious bad post that everyone took as role fishing being explained by their actual role of being motivator and that being their interest?

Like you have to assume that they crumble easy to pressure or like, are not good with mechanics and their first idea as mafia was to start asking people their possible actions? Like I *really* struggle to see the scum agenda/plan on those post, while Im totally seeing the picture of an clumsy mechanical town trying to play with their role

[Santygrass]

Also heury received three votes by that point . By Bop, Boomfrog, and Wam . And in my heart all the explanations felt kinda picking at an lhf , so I might just be doing for bad reasons but kinda townleaning heury and believing in the above three names there is mafia most likely atm

[Santygrass]

Votables: Fred, heury (but not today), TehBubblez, anyone else who's not +1

@moody7277 why heury was forgiven of the D1 yeet but not Fred ? Like it was mentioned even here that Fred D1 being lackluster was NAI , and you always seem to sus them (you lost to wolf!madge a recent game because of this) so Im curious as to why you didnt gave Fred any of this pause but you did to heury?

[Bop]

First of all, welcome Santy!

Is Mak a stump again? Thats lowkey funny . But at least gives me someone to sheep hmmyes

I will be here catching up shortly

Moody is actually the one who is stumped just FYI!!

Also the argument Mak made about Bop making a TMI on hippo "vibes" I agree reads as scummy , but not necessarily paired idk. It could be them knowing hippo well , but I think i can def see it as mafia knowing the aggresion there is not real / possibly TMIng town. Like ...

Yeah my current read on this situation is I don't think Teh Bubblez's defensiveness at early day 1 votes is inherently scummy, but I also don't think Mak's doubling down is either. It feels like town butting heads but I'd love to hear more before really settling on that. Gotta vote somebody and all that and we have two pages of info (and not even every player yet).

And tbh, the longer I think of it, heuristically_alone's early finger of suspicion is almost more suspicious to me than any of the voting-casting aspersions with less attachment than a vote but more oomph than musing.

So for now I'm gonna

Vote: heuristically_alone

but keep aware of the current conflict.

Also ahippos return vote is more returning a handshake than anything substantial.

This double town read just was something I didnt vibed with much, specially because thebubblez argument of being town is "what they did wasnt scummy" , which by itself is... not towny either. So dont really see where they got that vision here.
The heury sus was also shallow, but I can give it a pass since it was very early in to the day and you gotta start somewhere. But the bolded is what pinged me as scum indicative / TMI adjacent view , if it makes sense. Wich is something that aligned with Mak take/vibe on the hippo situation

Please deliver me from the handshake. Please for the love of god deliver me from the handshake. Also, was there aggression from me on ahippo?? I don't think there was unless I'm misreading what you're saying.

As to my read of Bubblez, Mak and Heur there being shallow-duh! as said in my post up there, it's early! Which I'm a proponent for early reads count all the way to the end and are super helpful(esp bc there can be tells you can catch in the first few pages), but I'd rather make views early and have to adjust with new evidence than wait too long and have nothing to go from.

Also heury received three votes by that point . By Bop, Boomfrog, and Wam . And in my heart all the explanations felt kinda picking at an lhf , so I might just be doing for bad reasons but kinda townleaning heury and believing in the above three names there is mafia most likely atm

Just so I'm understanding what's an lhf?


(I'll try get to any direct addresses/things that stick out to me on your re-read/my reads for the day tomorrow (maybe some late tonight), this week has gotten a lot busier at work with way more hours but I know deadline'll sneak up again.)

[Santygrass]

I like the progression/conviction and like, overall rationale for which Boomfrog switches from scumreading heury to townreading them.

And like, this particular list

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

This is going to be off the dome, without a reread. FYI, I'm aiming to never have to do a full reread.

Town
6. ahippo - Very clearly town. Maybe the timing was more clear as it happened instead of rereading the history all at once, but he clearly was thinking about his role and how to use it, decided he had absolutely no idea who was town so wanted to just make sure he affected someone who actually has a power. This thought process only happens from a player who sincerely has the motivator role or someone who's very very good at playing a fake role, and frankly ahippo isn't the second one.
9. Bop - Very sincere town, townie zeal, especially on topics like defending ahippo. And that thing I pointed out before that I liked whatever that was.
1. Mak - Very townie attitude. Sincerely held conviction when scum hunting. The emotion is real and I suspect that is not in Mak's scum range to fake.
11. Freddino - I'm slightly convinced by the "multiball" post but I'm not happy about the precedent of rewarding someone almost breaking the rules. But I guess that's how it is. I don't think it was faked so probably town.
13. heuristically_alone - As I said I like the conviction of his last posts and this has raised him from neutral to townie.

Town Lean
3. Moody - His thoughtful take on JC seems sincere. He's Sabrar and Bessie reads are phoned in. I'm still processing, so neutral but my read on this slot is likely to change. But JC would be a good "easy missyeet" so defending JC when no one else is is pretty townie.
14. Madge - I'm slightly convinced by LG's point. And I think LG would make that point as scum or town. Although if LG is scum she could be a buddy.
4. Wam - Slightly townie, has asked some good questions iirc. I'd like more real content.
5. Sabrar - I agree with his entire reads list (except regarding me but I believe he sincerely got there). Some slight suspicion that his first jab at me was "Oh no, I'm scum again and have to hide from town!boomfrog AGAIN!" because I know he was sweating bullets in our last game together. - Town leaning
12. JC - Regardless of moody's alignment I agree with his point that JC seems to be trying to pay attention at least. It's pretty mild though. Definitely trying to skate by regardless of alignment.


Scum lean
15. Laserguy - Almost neutral, I like his madge read, but his content is easily faked as Sabrar said. I'm against a D1 yeet here though since I have sympathy for getting wagoned just for being low energy. I think he will resolve his slot with time on future days.
2. EGW - Engaged and going through the proper motions. Slightly scummy leaning but I won't say why yet, since I'm hoping to see townieness evidence happen organically.
10. Bessie - Will likely change after her big weekend content.
7. TehBubblez - I don't like any of their explanations for their actions. I'm going to double check before placing my vote though.

If I dont take into account the read on my slot, I think I vibe with most of the reads? (bop Im unsure, but could see me being wrong after I saw them talk about hippo and their general reads despite being rusty so idk. I still think could be a mafia slipping a bit of TMI in their reads and thats why they seem to townside, but feels more of a reach atp).
Tehbubblez is moreso a blindspot , but frog boosting heury sus there kinda mindmelding on them being scum puts them on my radar of following more closely

[EGW]

"he dipped out of thread" and "he moved on to asking in the same page" being together is just wild. This is extremely a bad faith take in regards to hippo tbh

Him asking Moody the question was before him claiming. Him dipping was after the claim. He was away for two days, I checked. I let it go to see how his play progressed.

[Santygrass]

Hi Bop!

lhf is Low Hanging Fruit . It is refered to players that are either new to mafia or have a playstyle that makes them very easy to explain a vote / yeet target. (Like someone being inactive , or having a playstyle that is just not conventionally "towny" , usually reacting badly to pressure and that sorta stuff). It mostly is a threadfeel and not tied to playstyle , more so threadfeel but is more complex to explain that way (?)

But yeah overall lhf slots are slots that you can vote and not have much of a pushback / have easy/obvious motives to vote them.

As for the aggresion , maybe it wasnt the best adjective to describe hippo vote/RVS . But like you interpreting that it didnt have teeth/desire to pressure is more so what I meant with the "not seeing the aggresion"

[Santygrass]

"he dipped out of thread" and "he moved on to asking in the same page" being together is just wild. This is extremely a bad faith take in regards to hippo tbh

Him asking Moody the question was before him claiming. Him dipping was after the claim. He was away for two days, I checked. I let it go to see how his play progressed.

Oh lol Im not checking much of the timestamps. 2 days and still being on the same page is something so wild to me.

My point though is that the question being asked before the claim shows exactly that they had their rolecard in mind when questioning, and the rolefishing angle didnt occur to them at all? Which lacks the mafia self awareness / potential team coaching .

But the 2 days dip is not good I give to you that so will keep noted

[boomfrog]

Now that's a townie entrance! Welcome to the game Santy. I don't think we've played together before.

[Santygrass]

Sorry for lurk. Sometimes life happens.

ahippo - Very clearly town. Maybe the timing was more clear as it happened instead of rereading the history all at once, but he clearly was

I appreciate this Boomfrog.

Also be sure to be specific who you are suspicious of in this sentence.

Yes, good call. I'm more suspicious that Boomfrog is scum, cuz I'm exactly the kinda player you can "butter up" so to speak, so that I use my ability on them. Bessie would be perfectly fine with me dying today, and her reasons for suspecting me are pretty understandable.

Once again, I think this is town .

They said they were away from IRL reasons so eh. I think that fact in a vaccum is slightly concernig but everything else so far strikes me as really towny

[EGW]

My point though is that the question being asked before the claim shows exactly that they had their rolecard in mind when questioning, and the rolefishing angle didnt occur to them at all? Which lacks the mafia self awareness / potential team coaching .

I don't think I ever disputed their role. I have said they were suspicious regardless of claim. My point was that the pressure from Mak was on their mind while asking Moody, and therefore they asked to setup for their claim, to then be town read, which benefits mafia. Yes, that requires coaching. I do think they were being coached. I never mentioned anything about rolefishing. That was Bessie.

[Santygrass]

Now that's a townie entrance! Welcome to the game Santy. I don't think we've played together before.

Hi Frog!! yeah this is only my third game here so first time playing together for sure. Ive only saw your name referenced once or twice during past games here .

As you can see I like to talk and yap a lot. wowee

I might have to leave thread for a bit and finish catching up later since I have plan with some friends soon tm.

if I had to vote rn I think my vote would be on bubbles , but iirc they were the slot that was also kinda new to mafia so im a bit hesitant to fully commit

[EGW]

I look forward to more of your catch up. I'm going to play some Diablo 4 with my buddy for now. I'll post later tonight.

[Santygrass]

My point though is that the question being asked before the claim shows exactly that they had their rolecard in mind when questioning, and the rolefishing angle didnt occur to them at all? Which lacks the mafia self awareness / potential team coaching .

I don't think I ever disputed their role. I have said they were suspicious regardless of claim. My point was that the pressure from Mak was on their mind while asking Moody, and therefore they asked to setup for their claim, to then be town read, which benefits mafia. Yes, that requires coaching. I do think they were being coached. I never mentioned anything about rolefishing. That was Bessie.

If they are mafia, why are they asking for people for wether they act ot not in the night?
If you dont doubt that they are a motivator, they really dont care wether Moody has a night action or not for example, since their role target is most likely a teammate always.

I dont think a mafia team coaches someone to early claim in that way . Like its a convoluted setup + unnecesary claim. So like, if they are scum I think is far more likely they claimed on their own or didnt consult much with teammates , but still that vision doesnt coincides much with their early interest in finsing out if people had night actions , or the clear mech dissonance they showed when explaining themselves

[boomfrog]

And bubblez return was scummy. He literally lied about why he'd voted and why he left.

This seemed like a darkpit situation, but I feel town you would defend them hard, even laying your life down for them.

Is a darkpit an emotionally fraught topic where it would be easy to insult someone in RL? I think we need to talk about it anyway because it's the basis you are judging me on. Or do you not actually want to sort me but just stick to your conclusions?

I have often defended a noobie to the death but those are all situations where that noobie's honesty shown through. theBubblez didn't have that. I seriously considered giving him a pass D1 anyway, but I'm kinda exhausted by how many people I don't want to yeet D1. I didn't push LG because he'd declared low energy. I don't want to yeet wam or heury or moody because they get missyeeted D1 too often. I don't want to yeet sabrar or bessie or you because you are valuable scum hunters if town.

It's exhausting and I'm considering not playing elimination games anymore. But I don't want to get too into that detail right now.

So I thought bubblez was caught scum and I decided fuck it.

[Santygrass]

North America: bessie, Mak, EGW, moody, boomfrog, Fred, JC, heury, LaserGuy
Australia: Madge
Europe: Wam, Sabrar
?: ahippo, TehBubblez, Bop

Okay maybe I am cooking (I am assuming that the devoured thing is that bessie was the mafia n1)
Like, I dont really agree with the hippo reasoning or sus since it reads more as bessie being strict with their gameplay rules and not much more than that. But if I scratch hippo and maybe Madge (Im townleaning them atm) . The group of Wam/Sabrar/Bubblez/Bop I think has a good % of hitting if focusing in that group


Gotta go now, this post will serve me as a bookmark of which post I need to follow my catch up later

[boomfrog]

I'm out for the rest of the night probably. So my idea is that everyone should claim as I have. It will help flavor cops catch liars and I suspect if we have everyone's true associations we will be able to use that to help solve as the game goes on and more is revealed. If anyone reacts to this idea be really careful how you do as a flavor cop could easily out themselves by reacting noticeably to it. For that reason I think moody should decide by fiat if we should do it. Also, regardless, moody should set a claim order.

[heuristically_alone]

Oh lol Im not checking much of the timestamps. 2 days and still being on the same page is something so wild to me.

This is a low post community, but the high quality content is there! Welcome to the game. Sounds like I'm likely not going to consider your slot as the vote today.

Wam/Sabrar/Bubblez/Bop, these 4 I do want to look at closer today. Sabrar I don't want to consider for elim. Bubblez is still higher on my list for elim.

[moody7277]

Moody is really strange as a target, but if there is PIZZAZZ I think the most likely explanation is some kind of redirection.

Town redirector who thought I was scummy and wanted the NK to rebound on scum is my head canon now.

Doin' a bit of catch-up here. Did anyone claim to get my motivate? It's very possible it was blocked, and afaik, the target has not spoken up yet. There might be a good reason they're not saying, but I was hoping that person could confirm they were motivated. Would help my case re not being scum.

This along with his question to me about night actions D1 is into anti-town curiosity levels. Current read on him is -1.

@moody7277 why heury was forgiven of the D1 yeet but not Fred ?

I have seen several games in which heury has been seen as scummy and miselimed, most recently D2 of Dancers, and I thought D1 might go that way again and wanted to get more than just "heury always seems scummy" to read him on. Fred I just have an irrational hatred for, which I'll probably have to get over sometime.

@BF: If you're thinking something like association with a Lord of Calamity is correlated with scum, I've got bad news for you. I was associated with a Lord of Calamity (named Velvet, very tacky dresser), so that might explode your theory if it was such. I also would feel highly unqualified to pick claim order.