Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

[Bop]

(Is it just me or did Bop softclaim vig who shot moody?)

That's a possible interpretation upon first glance. I think it's more likely that Bop meant their read was wrong.

That's correct! Not a soft claim, just a "I was very wrong here"

I also think sabrar shot bessie and told on themselves in this post.

- bessie is a Doc-dodge or a team that is specifically afraid of her catching them in late-game (with a side-potential again of scum aiming for the other scum).

As the person I'm the game who I think would be most worried about town Bessie as scum is scum sabrar

@Wam why specifically Sabrar here? I don't have the meta context I'm assuming this comes from; but in this game the lowest Bessie had Sabrar there were still 9 people lower than them. That doesn't strike me as "worrying enough to pre-emptively kill"

[EGW]

I will, but I wanted to get some pointers on what seems significant to people, so I can be a little more focused than just randomly skipping through D1. I generally find that trying to re-read everything doesn't give me a lot of insight compared to the time I spend on it.

I'll see if I can give you key points this evening or tomorrow morning, since I will be busy tonight.

[EGW]

I believe ahippo's claim, consequently his behavior surrounding it. I do not want to spend too much time on him right now.

I think your read on him can and should be improved. Reading him based on his claim is not enough, I think. I can wait until he posts today for your updated read though.

[Sabrar]

Reading him based on his claim is not enough, I think.

I understand that you feel that way but I disagree. It was a natural progression from his pov, with an early claim that's hard to fake.

[EGW]

My major concern is that you are making the same mistake I did in Millerizer Mafia. I read you as genuine there too. I'm trying to solve the game and discuss it with you so it's on paper for later phases. I'll leave it at that for now as I don't want this to become a distraction. We still need content from others.

[Wam]

@somi @ bop

Why sabrar not others, I have a memory that Bessie has been good at reading sabrar before.

I ignored somi as a possibility as a replacement it didn't feel like you would come in and go swinging for bessie. As for others I know I didn't kill bessie, boom I think would.keep.her around. Laser not sure about.

[Sabrar]

Why sabrar not others, I have a memory that Bessie has been good at reading sabrar before.

Wine at its finest but she failed to read me correctly in both PYP and Millerizer.

[boomfrog]

@sabrar, can you summarize why you find me scum? And what's your read on egw?

[AdumbroDeus]

Laserguy requests replacement. They said they lack time because of family related stuff.

[Sabrar]

@sabrar, can you summarize why you find me scum?

I give my initial sus here. It's not the greatest case of all time but is enough to put you at the bottom (very close to being tied with LaserGuy but you win as I might be overconfident in reading you because of Animal Kingdom while I always struggle reading LG).
At this point I basically enter tunnel-mode, which means I interpret your later content in a more negative light by default. This is exactly the attitude that I'm trying to combat in EGW and I'm fully aware of the hypocrisy, so I'm trying to fight it internally.
I dislike your reaction to my vote here. Same as with my notes on LaserGuy, it is too accommodating. I feel like town!BF would be more sus of me, especially after we joked about PYP.
You asking opinions directly here and here about your Bubblez case also didn't feel right. While I understand the townie motivation of getting feedback, the way you did it just resonated badly with me. This is totally a vibe thing.
D2 your claim of potentially being a miller feels out of place. I find it difficult to believe that after you see the discrepancy between the given template role-pm and your own, you never contact the mod and try to get a sense of it, even after madge's claim brings attention to a possible miller. But on D2 you are suddenly worried about the potential, even though no new info really points towards it, plus unaware millers would probably be considered bastard by Adum, plus they do not really make sense with miller being an actual role/modifier if you believe madge's claim. I would be interested to hear about your reasoning in more detail, explaining what careful reading led to your claim before waiting for mod-reply.

[Sabrar]

And what's your read on egw?

For now I rely on a fairly old meta of him given by Seven. I think his energy points to town and his stubbornness reinforces that read. I will probably give him a reread during the weekend.

[ahippo]

Doin' a bit of catch-up here. Did anyone claim to get my motivate? It's very possible it was blocked, and afaik, the target has not spoken up yet. There might be a good reason they're not saying, but I was hoping that person could confirm they were motivated. Would help my case re not being scum.

[somitomi]

Mods confirmed these alignments are flavor only. There was some discussion that everyone claim them today.

That doesn't mean it can't be copped though. When I asked about these I was told they were setup related, which to me suggest they could be useful in figuring people out, even if they're not directly tied to alignment on the mafia-town axis. Could be reading too much into it though

I ignored somi as a possibility as a replacement it didn't feel like you would come in and go swinging for bessie. As for others I know I didn't kill bessie, boom I think would.keep.her around. Laser not sure about.

So who would I come in and go swinging for?

D2 your claim of potentially being a miller feels out of place. I find it difficult to believe that after you see the discrepancy between the given template role-pm and your own, you never contact the mod and try to get a sense of it, even after madge's claim brings attention to a possible miller. But on D2 you are suddenly worried about the potential, even though no new info really points towards it, plus unaware millers would probably be considered bastard by Adum, plus they do not really make sense with miller being an actual role/modifier if you believe madge's claim. I would be interested to hear about your reasoning in more detail, explaining what careful reading led to your claim before waiting for mod-reply.

I might have to rescind my earlier judgement, this is a good point

[Sabrar]

Doin' a bit of catch-up here. Did anyone claim to get my motivate? It's very possible it was blocked, and afaik, the target has not spoken up yet. There might be a good reason they're not saying, but I was hoping that person could confirm they were motivated. Would help my case re not being scum.

Unless you absolutely need to prove yourself because you are about to be voted out, it is unnecessary to get a confirmation as that will potentially help scum to decide who to block/kill tonight and doesn't provide us further information for the solve.

[Bop]

Doin' a bit of catch-up here. Did anyone claim to get my motivate? It's very possible it was blocked, and afaik, the target has not spoken up yet. There might be a good reason they're not saying, but I was hoping that person could confirm they were motivated. Would help my case re not being scum.

If you targeted someone without a power, do you think they would still be notified?

Also, when you catch up, would love to hear if your thoughts have changed at all from yesterday.

Mods confirmed these alignments are flavor only. There was some discussion that everyone claim them today.

That doesn't mean it can't be copped though. When I asked about these I was told they were setup related, which to me suggest they could be useful in figuring people out, even if they're not directly tied to alignment on the mafia-town axis. Could be reading too much into it though

I agree on this. They may not be a smoking bullet or guiding light but you could gleam a lot even from reactions. And as people die and discrepancies are potentially found, that might be a rich vein to return to.

Reading him based on his claim is not enough, I think.

I understand that you feel that way but I disagree. It was a natural progression from his pov, with an early claim that's hard to fake.

Also if ahippo was faking, he could easily have claimed "oh I totally used my power on bessie.....damn !" to cover it up versus what he's doing here.

Doin' a bit of catch-up here. Did anyone claim to get my motivate? It's very possible it was blocked, and afaik, the target has not spoken up yet. There might be a good reason they're not saying, but I was hoping that person could confirm they were motivated. Would help my case re not being scum.

Unless you absolutely need to prove yourself because you are about to be voted out, it is unnecessary to get a confirmation as that will potentially help scum to decide who to block/kill tonight and doesn't provide us further information for the solve.

I don't think that the target should say what their power is or anything, but would it not be good information in the event that it turns out he had targeted scum and we can potentially piece together one of their actions having been used twice? Otherwise, say ahippo dies in the night this time, that's lost to us entirely.

[heuristically_alone]

Doin' a bit of catch-up here. Did anyone claim to get my motivate? It's very possible it was blocked, and afaik, the target has not spoken up yet. There might be a good reason they're not saying, but I was hoping that person could confirm they were motivated. Would help my case re not being scum.

The way this is worded, makes me not want to trust ahippo's claimclaim.

[AdumbroDeus]

Santygrass replaces Laserguy!

[Santygrass]

Third time is the charm

[EGW]

Also if ahippo was faking, he could easily have claimed "oh I totally used my power on bessie.....damn !" to cover it up versus what he's doing here.

He's suspicious regardless of claim.

[EGW]

D2 your claim of potentially being a miller feels out of place.

There's also the fact that he did not react to Madge's miller claim Day 1 in anyway, nor did he think to claim his, but is only reacting today.

[Santygrass]

Is Mak a stump again? Thats lowkey funny . But at least gives me someone to sheep hmmyes

I will be here catching up shortly

[Santygrass]

Honestly, I'm doing a lot of catchup on what the vibes are like. I really don't like being cagey and dodging direct questions. Is it suspicious to claim a role D1? Is it considered, like, rude? Or bad play? I mean if it is bad play, I could just own up to being a bad player.

I think this is kinda towny

[Santygrass]

Also the argument Mak made about Bop making a TMI on hippo "vibes" I agree reads as scummy , but not necessarily paired idk. It could be them knowing hippo well , but I think i can def see it as mafia knowing the aggresion there is not real / possibly TMIng town. Like ...

Yeah my current read on this situation is I don't think Teh Bubblez's defensiveness at early day 1 votes is inherently scummy, but I also don't think Mak's doubling down is either. It feels like town butting heads but I'd love to hear more before really settling on that. Gotta vote somebody and all that and we have two pages of info (and not even every player yet).

And tbh, the longer I think of it, heuristically_alone's early finger of suspicion is almost more suspicious to me than any of the voting-casting aspersions with less attachment than a vote but more oomph than musing.

So for now I'm gonna

Vote: heuristically_alone

but keep aware of the current conflict.

Also ahippos return vote is more returning a handshake than anything substantial.

This double town read just was something I didnt vibed with much, specially because thebubblez argument of being town is "what they did wasnt scummy" , which by itself is... not towny either. So dont really see where they got that vision here.
The heury sus was also shallow, but I can give it a pass since it was very early in to the day and you gotta start somewhere. But the bolded is what pinged me as scum indicative / TMI adjacent view , if it makes sense. Wich is something that aligned with Mak take/vibe on the hippo situation

[Santygrass]

Generally think Mak is aggressively barking up the wrong tree with the TMI theory but TBH I think that's more.lilely town Mak.

also dont really like Wam commenting/discrediting Mak theory here without really giving their own input on Bop.

[Santygrass]

I will point you to the fact that I explicitly did NOT ask for role. I simply asked "Do you have a power?"

Why Moody? Honest answer, when he voted for me, I just found it very endearing and wanted to ask someone I thought would answer. Vibes are all I've got right now.

Why do I care if Moody has a power? I can double a person's use of that power, once per night, only twice in the game, and on separate nights. Realizing now that if I do pick Moody, then that's an extra target on him, so ... yeah, it's useless if my target dies.

I'd probably just be better off using a random number generator to pick my target. I trust blind statistics more than my own intuition at this point.

Okay lmao claiming this early into the day1 is just really towny . Unless they have a meta of crumbling easy to pressure or just, claim that early with no motive as scum aswell idk. That just almost always come from town