Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

[Bop]

something somethign crayons something something, why would you not claim miller d1? if i get a scum result at the start of d3 i'm sure people would say it's awfully convenient i chose then to claim miller.

There's really no winning when it comes to Miller. I can understand this.

teh bubbles scumreading heury for piling on mak's vote reeeks of omgus. what kind of pants-on-head scum player goes "OH GREAT A CHANCE FOR ME TO PUT A SECOND VOTE ON A PLAYER EARLY ON DAY ONE IN A 15 PLAYER GAME, THAT WILL CLINCH THE VICTORY FOR THE SCUM TEAM". Nobody. If a wagon forms then we got something work critically examining.

FOS: tehbubbez

This was posted only 2 minutes after Mak voted for me, and after I posted a single time. Mak said he RV'd me which is fine, but this with no follow up, reason, or answer to it is suspicious, because that isn't an RV. And like I said in the post addressing it, I didn't say it was a full bandwagon, just way too cautious of a "Hey me, too!" kind of post for my liking. Running along side a potential bandwagon to look like they are doing something.

My biggest issue is the hyperfocus on timestamp? Scum are not going to coordinate to do things one after the other explicitly because
you'll always get reads like this.

But I also don't understand/certainly don't like Madge wanting to write off "this could be suspicious" for heur at all, just bc it's early behavior and doesn't have a strong instant impact. Scum sowing discord early and getting somebody read as suspicious isn't "clinching the victory" but it's at least setting something up for later down the road! And in a large game they need that!

[Wam]

Full reads

Town

Hippo
I think the posts the claim etc was very natural. I'm taking the life happens at face value for now.
Ps if hippo can fake that tone as scum. They are a dangerous player!

Bop

Coming across town. Reads list shows the logic and thinking. Also for first game back in ages if they can fake the chill attitude I'm seeing inwould be impressed.

EGW
Town, the analysis is good and I can follow the thought processes.

Mak
This is the behavior I associate with Town.Mak. Am slightly worried by them turning it down though as day 1 has gone on.

Tehbubblez
Bubbles I think is town. Of my townish reads this is the one I'm least confident in. But I generally think there is a desire to solve and a freedom in the posting I associate with Town.

Neutral

Bessie
Bessie is hitting her usual meta. I'm not seeing anything either way and I think bessie has got a lot better at matching her play irrespective over alignment over the last few years. Push on me is fair!

Moody
Moody is pretty null so far and posts haven't flagged up either way to me.

Boomfrog
Boom has an amazing range as both town and scum. I'm not seeing the suspicioun others are but I'm also not seeing anything that's shouting town boom to me.

Sabrar
I'm worried I'm.being influenced by bessies read too much as I know bessie can read sabrar well. But something has felt a bit rote and performative about sabrar rather than feeling natural if that makes sense.
But his last post feels more natural.sabrar for now.

Fred
Ah the conundrum. I'm probably biased as Fred never seems.to answer my questions but he did this in the last game as town. But as previously mentioned I'm getting scum trying to follow their town meta pings and frustration that people don't agree with that.

Scum

I have run out of time for now will be back to do the below in a couple of hours. I'm working down the entry list by the way!

12. JC
13. heuristically_alone
14. Madge
15. Laserguy

[Sabrar]

I'm curious, can you go more into your Mak read on me. Like break it down. How does your Post, Post, and Post I brought up factor into that read as well? I feel your read doesn't line up with the concerns you have had with Mak. How does it explain all that?

In the first post (chronologically) I make an observation about Mak's focus. It's not a scum-tell, just something that caught my eye. Later I am told that focusing on such details is within Mak's town-meta and I also remember Seven's weird obsession with spelling mistakes made by mods in Halloween, so I basically drop it from consideration in my mind (barring further events).
The second post is not directed to anyone in particular, I'm making general observations so that we all have a better understanding of each other.
In the third I want to understand Mak's thought process. Doesn't mean I think he is scum, I am capable of addressing questions to people I think are likely Town.
There is no contradiction there.

[Freddino18]

Freddino - I'm slightly convinced by the "multiball" post but I'm not happy about the precedent of rewarding someone almost breaking the rules. But I guess that's how it is. I don't think it was faked so probably town.

@bessie for this reason it feels unfair to go into more detail about my read. But basically it goes down to if I believe fred could be fake town slipping

This reads like "if I believe Fred could fake his way out of a paper bag". I wish y'all would stop calling that a town slip, because it's not. The ONLY thing it implies is that I'm not independent. I specifically said it was not part of the alignment section and I didn't claim one way or the other on Shepherd/Lord of Chaos.

[Freddino18]

Exactly. Don't try to influence me when I'm making my list.

I don't see this bravado from Fred in this game. Nor do I see an attempt to make a list. I only see active lurking.

You missed a post re: bravado

[Freddino18]

Full reads

Town

Hippo
I think the posts the claim etc was very natural. I'm taking the life happens at face value for now.
Ps if hippo can fake that tone as scum. They are a dangerous player!

Bop

Coming across town. Reads list shows the logic and thinking. Also for first game back in ages if they can fake the chill attitude I'm seeing inwould be impressed.

EGW
Town, the analysis is good and I can follow the thought processes.

Mak
This is the behavior I associate with Town.Mak. Am slightly worried by them turning it down though as day 1 has gone on.

Tehbubblez
Bubbles I think is town. Of my townish reads this is the one I'm least confident in. But I generally think there is a desire to solve and a freedom in the posting I associate with Town.

Neutral

Bessie
Bessie is hitting her usual meta. I'm not seeing anything either way and I think bessie has got a lot better at matching her play irrespective over alignment over the last few years. Push on me is fair!

Moody
Moody is pretty null so far and posts haven't flagged up either way to me.

Boomfrog
Boom has an amazing range as both town and scum. I'm not seeing the suspicioun others are but I'm also not seeing anything that's shouting town boom to me.

Sabrar
I'm worried I'm.being influenced by bessies read too much as I know bessie can read sabrar well. But something has felt a bit rote and performative about sabrar rather than feeling natural if that makes sense.
But his last post feels more natural.sabrar for now.

Fred
Ah the conundrum. I'm probably biased as Fred never seems.to answer my questions but he did this in the last game as town. But as previously mentioned I'm getting scum trying to follow their town meta pings and frustration that people don't agree with that.

Scum

I have run out of time for now will be back to do the below in a couple of hours. I'm working down the entry list by the way!

12. JC
13. heuristically_alone
14. Madge
15. Laserguy

Feel free to ask again, I might have missed them the first time around

[heuristically_alone]

The ONLY thing it implies is that I'm not independent.

Implies your not CLAIMING independent.

More in a little while my husband's band is just starting practice in the next room so I'm going to get surrounded by a wave of noise.

When are going to share some more of your husband's music?

Can you be in Anaheim on Thursday? I will put you on the guest list.

Let me check my calendar and get back to you

[Freddino18]

I am not independent

Happy?

[heuristically_alone]

What others say has zero impact on my happiness.

[JC_DADDY25]

Gut feelings right now...

Mak
Bessie
EGW
Wam
Moody
Madge
Bop
ahippo
Laserguy
TehBubblez
Boomfrog
Freddino
Sabrar



heuristically_alone - indy? Not sure why, but if we have an indy in this game I feel it's Heury.

[Wam]

Full reads with all players this time.

Town

Hippo
I think the posts the claim etc was very natural. I'm taking the life happens at face value for now.
Ps if hippo can fake that tone as scum. They are a dangerous player!

Bop

Coming across town. Reads list shows the logic and thinking. Also for first game back in ages if they can fake the chill attitude I'm seeing inwould be impressed.

EGW
Town, the analysis is good and I can follow the thought processes.

Mak
This is the behavior I associate with Town.Mak. Am slightly worried by them turning it down though as day 1 has gone on.

JC
Low content but that's normal and I like what is there.

Tehbubblez
Bubbles I think is town. Of my townish reads this is the one I'm least confident in. But I generally think there is a desire to solve and a freedom in the posting I associate with Town.

Neutral

Madge
Typical day 1 madge, as others have said within her scum range so I'm withholding judgement until later in the game. As mentioned before Im leaning towards believing the Miller claim.

Bessie
Bessie is hitting her usual meta. I'm not seeing anything either way and I think bessie has got a lot better at matching her play irrespective over alignment over the last few years. Push on me is fair!

Laser
Not seen much either way from laser. My view is normally they are pretty neutral early game either alignment and not seeing any chnage to that this game.

Moody
Moody is pretty null so far and posts haven't flagged up either way to me.

Boomfrog
Boom has an amazing range as both town and scum. I'm not seeing the suspicioun others are but I'm also not seeing anything that's shouting town boom to me.

Sabrar
I'm worried I'm.being influenced by bessies read too much as I know bessie can read sabrar well. But something has felt a bit rote and performative about sabrar rather than feeling natural if that makes sense.
But his last post feels more natural.sabrar for now.

Heury
I'm going to be honest this is mainly gut. Something is pinging me. I had missed the below originally and it doesn't feel right to me from town heury.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Claiming your own role early in the game isn't necessarily alignment indicative (personally, I tend to consider unprompted claims to be much more likely Town than not)

In that case, I have a PR!

Fred
Ah the conundrum. I'm probably biased as Fred never seems.to answer my questions but he did this in the last game as town. But as previously mentioned I'm getting scum trying to follow their town meta pings and frustration that people don't agree with that.

Scum

I have about 2 hours if you have any questions for me. Not sure I will be back befor deadline. We really need to.get these wagons going if we're going to hit pularity.

[LaserGuy]

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Responding to some quick things that stood out then gonna try to get updated reads (including takes on voting from here) after these posts as I know deadline is gonna hit like a train.

In the meantime I will

Unvote: heuristically_alone

bc I'm reading both heur and bubblez as scummish and don't know how to reconcile that. Doesn't mean I won't return after a quick skimming reread but I need to get my thoughts in order.

@EGW: I'm going to do a full reads list next, but I'd like to know your thoughts on theBubblez.

I like your response a lot. Bubbles seems like elim bait to me. I think town are more likely to post that they are going to mostly do nothing the whole phase nonchalantly, and the omgus vote feels annoyed newb town to me, definitely not survival focused. I also like unprompted content. I agree with you on Heury, but I don't think Bubbles is scum for it due to his previous posts.

Fred feels like the wayyyyyy more obvious "scum is trying to push a vote they think they're likely to get away with" for me bc people are doing it without as much conviction, and it's easier as they can capitalize on an air of frustration.(You'll note some of the most direct claims of frustration and calling Fred out to actually get reads are not the people voting- but I'm sure they seem like easy people to sway!) All three of those votes have got my attention.(Moody, Wam, Lazerguy)

This is more of a general statement and not directed specifically at TehBubblez, I sympathize with your feelings, but the glut of declarations at the start of every game about Day 1 makes me suspicious. And I will explain why. The majority of us start the game with no information, D1 haters are not alone in this. Most of us will fumble with our early reads, accuse or clear someone wrongly, and perhaps even post a solve without even realizing it. We will also say something that will be seized upon on D3 as proof of scumminess or towniness. And we will be accused of not being on the correct wagons. There’s a lot of big egos in this game (mine included) and we like to be right but sometimes we’re wrong (I would like to take a friendly jab here at Mak which I can do because he knows it’s out of love and not spite). I believe D1 is the most important day for content and if I make it to late game I often find what I need in D1 to help with the solve. So I encourage everyone to post what they think or feel and don’t worry about being wrong because you won’t be the only one that is wrong. Posting any content even if it is an unorganized spew is the best thing you can do to help town. I will be suspicious of anyone not posting and using “I hate and suck at D1” as an excuse.

Big agree on this-it can only help us to do and say as much as possible early on. Day one has the benefit of absolutely nobody can solve for the night, so takes people thought were "safe" can get obliterated come the morning with actions bringing information. This is by design and I'd argue a good thing.

And yes, god, it is easy to work yourself up into a take being a slam dunk and sticking to your guns.

Oh, and it's D1 so let's give us something to talk about: I'm a miller.

Oh. Has... anyone actually talked about this? Mak confirmed the claim was real a little ways down and tries to get more conversation going but it was otherwise dropped. I guess Bessie mentions it too a little later

My read is a miller claim is something you put in the evidence pile, but I think most people who read it as town or scum aren't going to act on it right away.

I did! I'll consider that, I appreciate you linking the meta of another game to go off of. I'll try to read a bit of that game in the meantime.



It's the fact that your vote came directly after that got me. But I'll admit on re-reading your vote I must have assumed/projected your reasoning based on other people's comments at the time re: Freddino's engagement.

However as to the second point

I shouldn't have to ask why you've voted! If there's a reason, would it not behoove you to begin with it? I certainly don't feel better that you've got no stated reason at all.
This is your current response when being directly asked. So should I ask or wait for you to make others gleam the answer based on past behavior?

So this has actually been a very interesting. As outset, I'll say my vote was like 50% reaction test 50% I genuinely didn't have anyone else I felt strongly about.

Like I said at the outset, I didn't really have a strong read on any of my bottom players, just sort of had them PoE. Fred is a hard player to read and is usually very low effort D1 so I wanted to see what happened if I poked him a bit. I honestly wasn't super optimistic about it because in our last game he was run up to like L-2 and didn't seem to really care at all. So Fred being kinda defensive about his (lack) of content and you and heury jumping to his defense, and Wam and Moody jumping to wagon him I feel is all very valuable.

I think that Fred's content at face value is a hard null. Thinking about it more, I think heury's reaction to the multiball comment is super townie--he sees that Fred has similar text in his role to his own and assumes it's Town. Your reaction I'm more skeptical of because you don't seem to have a good reason to defend Fred and seem to be more looking for an excuse to scumread me and given that I'm in the running for elimination today, it feels very calculated and pings me hard.

Going to give Wam a slight townlean and Moody a slight scumlean. Bop to scumlean. Heury can be Town.

I'll have to dissect the more marginal responses later if I have time.

Unrelated to my response, I'll apologize that my tone at the end was a bit too far for "we are playing this game to have fun with each other" in this to start.

"No good reason to defend" To be honest, you're correct in that this wasn't even defending Fred! I found your using "I didn't ask for your reasoning" as a negative while you continued to be cagey in your own reasoning suspicious! "Looking for an excuse to scumread" is funny. The point of the game is to gleam who's suspicious. I am looking for a reason bc I need to confirm whether I'm right so I'm not just going off of my gut.

And if Fred is a hard null, with others as scumleans-why has your vote remained when it's currently tied for top elim? Why not pursue the people you suspect?

I actually agree with this. My first impression of Mak was strong town, however he seems town here, that is the important aspect here. My thoughts on this detail is that this is TMI from Mak.

This post is what 180'd my stance on Mak on my initial catch up. I've been burned by a scum mak that towned it up really hard, however this line:

So ahippp, I had your role in the last game we played here.

Is what tells me it's likely Mak coached Ahippo into claiming, to help smooth over the fumble from early game.

He did not want to waste his power on someone without an ability. He did not think about the other consequences of his inquiry. moody welcomed him so he decided to be friendly and try to return the favor. Timing doesn't play a role.

In my theory of Hippo + Mak, Hippo is posting this sudden decision to distract from the pressure Mak was giving him. Do you note that, after that line of questioning, Mak didn't vote either of Bop or Hippo here? I can't say for sure if it would have happened because, Hippo posted this before that avenue could have been explored. That's why I believe he suddenly chose to ask Moody about an action.

So in your theory, Mak was coaching Hippo on how to get the heat off him.....that was coming from Mak??
Even the players who townread Hippo see this as a misplay, I cannot find a way entertain the idea that it was staged and somehow executed perfectly! And this is your main person to pursue?

[/Spoiler]

Can't easily break up a big post like this so I'm putting in spoiler and will just address the part I'm interested in..

I feel you were defending Fred specifically in your reference to your original read of me where you said you didn't like my vote in Fred now right after he started producing content. Which I disagree with with respect to Fred anyway, but also based on our subsequent interactions, obviously haven't read a lot of the rest of my content in detail, so I don't get the sense you are really making an honest attempt to sort me. Your play with respect to me feels scummy and I get a buddy vibe between you and Fred. Fred feels weird and defensive even under a relatively light amount of pressure whereas in our last town game he didn't care at all about that so I think there might be something there.

Given where we are in the day and the limited amount of time I have today, I don't think you are likely to be an elimination today, so I'm leaving my vote where I think it is likely to do the most good and will reassess when I have time.

For the record, I'd be willing to vote for Bop, Fred, maybe Moody. I guess I'd do JC in a pinch, but only if there were no better options.

[LaserGuy]

Bedtime bark!

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Like I said at the outset, I didn't really have a strong read on any of my bottom players, just sort of had them PoE. Fred is a hard player to read and is usually very low effort D1 so I wanted to see what happened if I poked him a bit. I honestly wasn't super optimistic about it because in our last game he was run up to like L-2 and didn't seem to really care at all. So Fred being kinda defensive about his (lack) of content and you and heury jumping to his defense, and Wam and Moody jumping to wagon him I feel is all very valuable.

I think that Fred's content at face value is a hard null. Thinking about it more, I think heury's reaction to the multiball comment is super townie--he sees that Fred has similar text in his role to his own and assumes it's Town. Your reaction I'm more skeptical of because you don't seem to have a good reason to defend Fred and seem to be more looking for an excuse to scumread me and given that I'm in the running for elimination today, it feels very calculated and pings me hard.

Going to give Wam a slight townlean and Moody a slight scumlean. Bop to scumlean. Heury can be Town.

I’m at the bottom of your scum list. Why didn’t you say anything about me me me?

Sorry for lurk. Sometimes life happens.
I also appreciate this, bessie!
Your skepticism is extremely reasonable. I don't really have a strong refutation other than a long absence and ... y'know other life stuff. So hopefully day two I can win you over, assuming we both make it. If anything I'm more suspicious of being buttered by scum than being accused by scum, y'know?

This group is very accommodating for real life issues, just like the old forum, so I can forgive the absence as long as I know you’re interested playing, and will catch up when you can. I look forward to seeing more content from you.

If ahippo doesn’t come back and post some content I don’t feel the urgency to move my vote. He has done three of the top things I consider scummy (claim, rolefish, disappear) and you should know by now that I don’t clear based on claims.

Do you actually see it scummy or is it more on principle of breaking spirit of the game?

I don’t clear on claims because claims can be faked, so I see it as scummy. If it’s a very early real claim for no reason (like something mechanical), then I feel it is against the spirit of the game and the claimant is taking away some of the fun.

More in a little while my husband's band is just starting practice in the next room so I'm going to get surrounded by a wave of noise.

When are going to share some more of your husband's music?

Can you be in Anaheim on Thursday? I will put you on the guest list.

- are we just voting fred because he doesn't play the way you guys like to play because if we're voting people off for that then i'll opt out because i'll be next on the list

This is not my reason, not at all. Everyone should be able to play how they like, as long as they follow the rules and are courteous to their fellow players. My issue with Fred is getting him to post any content that isn’t fluff. And I will continue to prod him for that content.


Public service announcement for anyone that cares about the end of day, please plan accordingly.

North America: bessie, Mak, EGW, moody, boomfrog, Fred, JC, heury, LaserGuy
Australia: Madge
Europe: Wam, Sabrar
?: ahippo, TehBubblez, Bop

I haven't found anything in your content that has given me a huge townping, but nothing has been overly concerning either. A few games ago me not finding you instantly town would probably be enough to scumread you, but you've gotten better at evading my detection in recent games so I'm happy to let you do your thing for now. I'm not interested in voting you and will reassess your content when I have more time.

[LaserGuy]

Freddino - I'm slightly convinced by the "multiball" post but I'm not happy about the precedent of rewarding someone almost breaking the rules. But I guess that's how it is. I don't think it was faked so probably town.

@bessie for this reason it feels unfair to go into more detail about my read. But basically it goes down to if I believe fred could be fake town slipping

This reads like "if I believe Fred could fake his way out of a paper bag". I wish y'all would stop calling that a town slip, because it's not. The ONLY thing it implies is that I'm not independent. I specifically said it was not part of the alignment section and I didn't claim one way or the other on Shepherd/Lord of Chaos.

I think this may be a D2 problem, but I'd be vaguely interested in combining all of the Shepherd/Lord of Anarchy pieces from people's roles and see if we can piece anything together. I suspect it's probably null overall because from the lore it looks like there are multiple characters with these titles but maybe we can tease something out.

I think there might be some value in the Town Shepherd and Lord of Anarchy claiming their characters (and nothing else) but I don't know.

[LaserGuy]

EBWOP Lord of Calamity, not Anarchy.

[LaserGuy]

Housekeeping note: this game a majority elimination. We need 8 votes to secure an elimination. If you are not voting yet, please do so in your next post. We are going to need to consolidate hard and have only ~10 hours to do iirc.

I will be around off and on until about 4 hours before deadline, but have friends over for the evening. I'll try to sneak away close to deadline to see if I need to change my vote, but don't expect any content from me beyond that. Why deadline is on a Sunday night is beyond me.

[LaserGuy]

If you can't see what I'm seeing here I think there is absolutely nothing else I can say to convince you. I'm dying on this hill.

Speaking of which, I feel like EGW not making any serious effort to try to pull votes and help consolidate is a bad look for him and I'm giving him a scumlean for it.

[heuristically_alone]

I'd be vaguely interested in combining all of the Shepherd/Lord of Anarchy pieces from people's roles and see if we can piece anything together. I suspect it's probably null overall because from the lore it looks like there are multiple characters with these titles but maybe we can tease something out.

Based on what mod has said, it should be Null. But I'm agreeable with everyone claiming shepard or calamity. Also we should agree on an order to claim it, to attempt to have scum to claim first, though I don't think it would be telling either way. I am interest to know how many player are aligned in each flavored team.

[heuristically_alone]

^On D2. Now everyone should be focused on getting a vote in.

Vote count 1.8
1. Makhaira -
2. EGW -
3. Moody7277 -
4. Wam -
5. Sabrar -
6. ahippo - Bessie, EGW
7. TehBubblez - Makhaira, Boomfrog, heuristically_alone
8. Boomfrog - Sabrar
9. Bop -
10. Bessie -
11. Freddino18 - LaserGuy, Wam, Moody7277
12. JC_DADDY25 -
13. heuristically_alone - Bop, TehBubblez
14. Madge -
15. Laserguy -

Not voting: Freddino18, JC_DADDY25, Madge, ahippo

With 15 players alive it takes 8 to eliminate

The deadline is set for Sunday January 20th at 2 am EST.

[EGW]

Speaking of which, I feel like EGW not making any serious effort to try to pull votes and help consolidate is a bad look for him and I'm giving him a scumlean for it.

Laser, I am open to consolidating. Yet that wasn't the time. I also had to go sleep since it was already 6AM. When I say I am dying in this hill, I am saying I believe strongly that those two are scum. Have you seen what I said? Does it make sense to you? Also, I will be here tonight as well. Deadline is 2AM for me, and I have already cleared out my schedule for it. Now I'm eating. Have any questions about my reads, hit me.

[heuristically_alone]

Bessie would be perfectly fine with me dying today, and her reasons for suspecting me are pretty understandable.

When are you going to start talking about who you're fine with dying today rather than repeating other players' thoughts?

[Bop]

God everybody’s reads are so different this close to deadline.

Tried to get rid of my neutral category but couldn't do it. Shortened it, at least.


Leaning Townie (Most to least)

Ahippo- God I want opinions and actual reads so bad.I can understand the instinct to not have him “locked in” as town long game, it’s honestly critical to be able to change your mind and not lock yourself in a “but I was right the first time” hole, but I could not disagree more on the people discussing eliminating him off the worry that he could be gambity scum instead of stressed townie. He’s very clearly reading town to me more than anyone, even if he's wasting the opportunity by having a single take so far in the game. I agree on Wam’s take that I can’t imagine scum faking this tone esp for D1.

Mak- As said before, they seem more consistent to prior town meta than not. I think mak drove content early, and even on the takes I disagreed with, I think they have led to a lot of good. I don’t want to get blinded with this take, but Mak seems clear town for me as well. I should read that Spirited Away game that was linked one of the later days but I’m not in any way worried abt it today.

Boomfrog: Engaged, direct often enough, asks specific questions and has given us opinions on most situations and two full reads this early? Absolutely. Not seeing the sus readings others are.

Sabrar-also engaged and direct in a way that reads town to me, and most people reading scum in this slot are using gut based off of preconceived notions of meta I don’t have.

Madge: I’m gonna lean miller claim as more town here. Madge could have easily gotten away with sliding by today I think, and instead she chose to get that out there. There wasn’t any pressure or anything prompting the claim, beyond Ahippo’s claim already being out there.



Neutral, could go either way:

Fred- I do want that reads list out, and I agree that there’s more promises than not. Fred has been defensive but more about his general playstyle which reads at worst neutral to me. I still think Fred is town coming off as sus to people, and scum are taking advantage of it. This could drop for me in the next in game day depending on his takes which would uproot my list badly.

JC: Has now posted a gut read list before the day is up, which I appreciate. Without reasons its going to be easy to slide out of if questioned, though. A slot that’s super up in the air either way for me.



Leaning Scummier (Least to Most)

Bessie-I love the daily bark and she’s very plugged in. People seem to think Bessie plays similarly as either alignment, active either way. Regardless of meta, I stand by what I said w the ahippo claim vote. Difference of opinion, I can respect hippo reading as sus but not being anyone’s D1 vote choice as we hear it running towards us. Not a bandwagon that’s likely to take off, though, so she's not going for an easy elim-which is what puts her slightly higher on this part of the list. Might be similar to mak where I’m just disagreeing in a way that is hard to read. Lazer has also said this is characteristic for Bessie, leaving a believed vote until switching if necessary for elim. Guess we’ll see.

EGW- Really similar read to Bessie-is engaged and direct(but wayyy fewer reads)As brought up above w the ahippo vote the“I've let scum pass by in situations like this,” is a reason to keep your guard up. It’s not a reason to yeet someone out D1 to avoid having been wrong. The “Mak and Hippo have been scheming to get themselves read highly” theory makes no sense to me and in my mind seeks to create doubt in some of the higher read players, which reads scummy. Pushing hippo and mak harder which is why they’re lower than Bessie, but neither seem easy bandwagons so not going for easy elims.

LazerGuy- You got the big full re-read bc I fucked up reading one of your posts twice in a row before. Regarding the “not making an honest attempt”, I earned that with my earlier literal misreads directed at you. Active, direct, willing to be confrontational. I do appreciate the context you’ve given on other people’s meta. Still disagree on the read that I was defending and buddying up w Fred-we’ve barely directly interacted. I'll admit a lot of my scumreads are based on whether they're pushing Fred, but it's not out of loyalty to him. I play by a "I don’t have to be involved in an exchange to butt in" regardless of if that reads as defending. Difference of opinion maybe.
Willingness to vote Moody helps you get higher up, but I still think having both Fred and JC as compromise votes are easy “at least I can push through something people would go for” in a way that reads scummy to me.

heuristically_alone: I haven’t changed much on this! I’m glad he’s more engaged and having more of a defense to pressure, but when that’s been explicitly called out after what still reads to me dodging confrontation beforehand it’s not as strong. (I still think that early FOS does read as an early scum move when anything feels safe.) If he’s not scum, then we’ve just got drastic play style differences I have to reconcile. On the other bandwagon that is likely, it just happens to be one of the ones I more agree with.

TehBubblez- I don’t think his initial defense was inherently suspicious, and I stand by that. I really do think the explanation during his unvote of mak was. Yes, being away makes your early vote seem like it has too much weight, but it reads like he’d have kept it at “this wasn’t a serious vote obviously” if he’d not been pressed on it. My opinion on him and heur changes based on if either flips anything, but I’m just gonna have to accept I read two completely incompatible people as varying levels of scum for now. That’s possible if this game ends up being multiball.

Wam: Has a lot more explicit info in recent reads which I like, but their offense for Fred reads to me as scum pushing someone who has come off as a target. As explained in my last posts, there's a lot of frustration from both sides on Fred and I think that's being seen as easy to capitalize on for today. Leading the charge, which is why they're so low.

Moody: Has given a reads list, but jumped on Fred wagon without reasoning in the post. Going for easy people for elim, but not leading the charge. Scumreads on other's aren't strong, and only had two in full read. Seems like seizing an opportunity, and avoiding scumreading most players to stay safe. The low level of scum reads are what puts moody lower than Wam for me.


I think personally I'd be happy voting any of my bottom four, knowing that in terms of "other people would join the vote" bubblez seems more likely than moody, moody seems more likely than heur, and heur is more likely than wam. I will be back more tonight if I have to change my vote, but I'm gonna go with a

Vote: Moody


Can't deny the Fred votes feel more "safe, easy elim" than honest opinion, and that colors a lot of this list for me.

[AdumbroDeus]

Vote count 1.9
1. Makhaira(1) - EGW
2. EGW(0) -
3. Moody7277(1) - Bop
4. Wam(0) -
5. Sabrar(0) -
6. ahippo(1) - Bessie
7. TehBubblez(3) - Makhaira, Boomfrog, heuristically_alone
8. Boomfrog(1) - Sabrar
9. Bop(0) -
10. Bessie(0) -
11. Freddino18(3) - LaserGuy, Wam, Moody7277
12. JC_DADDY25(0) -
13. heuristically_alone(1) - TehBubblez
14. Madge(0) -
15. Laserguy(0) -

Not voting: Freddino18, JC_DADDY25, Madge, ahippo

With 15 players alive it takes 8 to eliminate

The deadline is set for Sunday January 20th at 2 am EST.

[EGW]

I guess I believe this and likely means you're Town. Your power is pretty strong though and as I suggested above, open claiming like this probably just puts a target on your back for the night kill (or helps scum narrow the search for better targets). I wouldn't bother even hinting at who you might target... it will be obvious down the line.

Bop, look again at the quote I was responding to, above. I've been in situations where I have a similar reaction, to scum, and then I townread them, I die in the night, and I realize I should not have made that mistake. I see Laser making that same mistake, and I point it out. Laser doesn't seem to accept the explanation, but feels he must due to the claim. I'm not pulling this all out of thin air here. You saying 'the mak and hippo trying to get read townie' theory not making sense... that's literally the play book for scum, to seem townie. Note that Mak hasn't mentioned a read of Hippo's individual play, but actually reads Hippo as town simply from the claim. To me, it's not about pushing who is the hardest or easiest wagon, it's about being correct. That is important as town. Scum can have the space to be wrong, town does not. We need to elim mafia to win.

[EGW]

Mak
This is the behavior I associate with Town.Mak. Am slightly worried by them turning it down though as day 1 has gone on.

LaserGuy, thoughts on the underlined here.