Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

[Wam]

@huery was the egw vote serious?

I'm looking at madge scepticallly but hesitantly believing it right now.

vote boomfrog

Elim all.liars

unvote

vote fred

The whole why am I not townie is pinging something in my brain.

[Wam]

So worked out why it's pinging me. It comes across as I'm playing towny why aren't people seeing that. Which is a mindset I personally find is much more likely as scum who think their matching their town meta.

[Bop]

Doing early responses to directs, mostly.

And tbh, the longer I think of it, heuristically_alone's early finger of suspicion is almost more suspicious to me than any of the voting-casting aspersions with less attachment than a vote but more oomph than musing.

Vote: heuristically_alone

Can you elaborate on why it's more suspicious?

It reads to me like he's already being careful to not seem to aggressive to get people voted off within the first few posts. "Seeming" being my issue.

Heuristically_alone: Has posted reads which is good, but to be honest his defense was far too jokey for me for both times they’ve been voted. I could live with that against my early vote, but against a later one as we get close to deadline??? Also I know it’s day one but they seem to not actually engage for a lot of other direct callouts. Barely engaged for a direct vote. Screams "I don't want to come off as not talking but I also don't want to talk myself into a hole" to me. I honestly stand by my vote.

Haha you think a day or two later is close to deadline? I'll gladly get you a calendar because you clearly don't have one.

A day or two can go fast. Without momentum early we easily end up at "oops, no votes". Also your response to my continued accusation, a read of you don't fully engage with accusations, is more of the same thing! Arguing semantics over the deadline bit but ignoring the rest.
Also, agree with these

I am so fucking down to push wagons to E-2 range more than 24 hours before deadline like PLEASE

Ditto, but I've never gotten enough traction here to make it work. If yeeting before deadline is a valid possibility it makes everyone's actions so much more meaningful leading up to there which means much richer information to mine on D2.

We're at the point of D1 where everyone is allowing themselves more serious votes. It's totally possible for a hammer to happen at any point. So it's close to deadline in a way that matters-deadline is just the latest the day can go.

Have you done this before in previous games off-site? Can you link your most recent town and scum game?

I know you didn’t ask me but I’ll try to help because the xkcd games will be hard to find and will be on the internet archive, which is frustratingly difficult to navigate (and not searchable). This is his last game on the old forum (if he doesn’t answer himself I might be able to find more): https://web.archive.org/web/20170926112 ... 13122243fa

@ahippo, have you played anywhere else since 2017?

I know of one game on the internet archive (I've found the old echochamber.me url to have more of the inner pages of games personally) with scum ahippo as well for comparison, but unfortunately that game is Inception, so it's mixed a lot of everyone going "Where am I? Did you get a strange phone call?" which is gonna be harder to read without the maze of anonymous pms everyone had the ability to send each other.

https://web.archive.org/web/20111010091 ... 53&t=69656 is that though if you're willing to dive in. Again, obviously better if @ahippo can respond himself, as he'd be aware of later games than I was.

Two pages a day is not fast lmao

Still reckoning with this.

[Bop]

that game is Inception, so it's mixed a lot of everyone going "Where am I? Did you get a strange phone call?" which is gonna be harder to read

(Not a dig at that game at all, I loved it, just a disclaimer that people would have reasons to be acting radically different in it)

[Bop]

(Also again it's from 2011 so it's by no means recent and that's a long time to have developed different in game behaviors it's just the only one I'm aware of.)

[JC_DADDY25]

I'll have time to drive in further and maybe put something fisher later tonight but more than likely tomorrow night.

[JC_DADDY25]

EBWOP: I'll have time to dive in further and maybe put something together later tonight, but more than likely tomorrow night.

[LaserGuy]

I only see Fred as town alluding to his role and changing his profile pic

Fred has done this every game he has played. It's NAI.

[LaserGuy]

I disagree with so much of your list. Only valid options are you are scum or I'm a better mafia player than you.

This framing is a false dichotomy and is quite suspicious.

[LaserGuy]

If this is the case, you should move your vote, and to someone you feel is suspect. Any thoughts on that so far?

Since that was a RV, it was more likely than not to be moved anyway. I do have a few other town reads, so narrowing the list of votables. My thoughts on heury are following the path with the common result of him being miselimed D1, so I will be deferring a vote on him. Plan is to do a deep dive and come up with a firm vote tomorrow evening and Saturday.

unvote

Why haven't you posted your early gut reads list this game?

[LaserGuy]

Do we really need to force her to spend time on research? Bessie has already vouched for it off memory, Sabrar and Laserguy can confirm as well. Since I don't want to bother Sabrar, @LaserGuy can you confirm I generally vote seriously early D1? I mean, it's probably already too late. She's likely to do the research before she reads my post here. She likes to process things in order.

Unvote LG

Vote Heury

I would say generally yes, or at least often enough that I don't feel it is particularly noteworthy for you to have done it.

[LaserGuy]

Refreshing soup of positive to neutral

Bessie: Her posts are full of specific insights and there’s a lot to gather. For now, seems open and asks specific questions of people, which gives us a lot more to read off of those answers. She is willing to have specific on the record opinions, and that's good this early. That said, if that ahippo vote stays too long as we approach deadline, just for the dislike of the claim that’s dropping her a lot for me. Depends on the next bark.

FWIW, this is very on brand for bessie. She'll stick to her strongest scumread until the end of day but will switch to secure an elimination.

Madge- I’ll need some time to think on where I land on her. While millers and scum both have a reason to claim miller early as it’s one of the two PR I feel scum have incentive to claim in a zanier game(alongside cop) I do think it’s way riskier to claim miller so probably more likely town here. Has been busy and seems to be famously anti day one so opting out of explicit reads entirely bc of the lack of substance. I’d assume this tracks regardless of alignment as that discussion was happening in the signups.

Noting that you missed my comments about scum!Madge that might be relevant to your thoughts here.

[qote]Lazerguy: Generally being active and asking questions, but Fred vote right after Freddino engages is weak at best and I don’t like it. Also giving themselves an out to flip flop on the handshake interaction doesn’t sit well with me.[/quote]

You have a suspiciously low bar for Fred being engaged. You also apparently never thought to ask why I was voting Fred.

[Freddino18]

@fred what have you done to not be so low?

I've posted more than people higher on that list, so the citation of "lack of content" is disingenuous as directed at me.

[Freddino18]

Refreshing soup of positive to neutral

Bessie: Her posts are full of specific insights and there’s a lot to gather. For now, seems open and asks specific questions of people, which gives us a lot more to read off of those answers. She is willing to have specific on the record opinions, and that's good this early. That said, if that ahippo vote stays too long as we approach deadline, just for the dislike of the claim that’s dropping her a lot for me. Depends on the next bark.

FWIW, this is very on brand for bessie. She'll stick to her strongest scumread until the end of day but will switch to secure an elimination.

Madge- I’ll need some time to think on where I land on her. While millers and scum both have a reason to claim miller early as it’s one of the two PR I feel scum have incentive to claim in a zanier game(alongside cop) I do think it’s way riskier to claim miller so probably more likely town here. Has been busy and seems to be famously anti day one so opting out of explicit reads entirely bc of the lack of substance. I’d assume this tracks regardless of alignment as that discussion was happening in the signups.

Noting that you missed my comments about scum!Madge that might be relevant to your thoughts here.

[qote]Lazerguy: Generally being active and asking questions, but Fred vote right after Freddino engages is weak at best and I don’t like it. Also giving themselves an out to flip flop on the handshake interaction doesn’t sit well with me.

You have a suspiciously low bar for Fred being engaged. You also apparently never thought to ask why I was voting Fred.
[/quote]

Well I did, so please elaborate

[Wam]

@fred what have you done to not be so low?

I've posted more than people higher on that list, so the citation of "lack of content" is disingenuous as directed at me.

Please point to contentful posts

[Seven]

Vote count 1.5
1. Makhaira - TehBubblez
2. EGW -
3. Moody7277 -
4. Wam -
5. Sabrar -
6. ahippo - Bessie
7. TehBubblez - Makhaira
8. Boomfrog - heuristically_alone
9. Bop -
10. Bessie -
11. Freddino18 - LaserGuy, Wam
12. JC_DADDY25 -
13. heuristically_alone - Bop, Boomfrog
14. Madge -
15. Laserguy -

Not voting: EGW, Sabrar, Freddino18, JC_DADDY25, Madge, ahippo, Moody7277

With 15 players alive it takes 8 to eliminate

The deadline is set for Sunday January 20th at 2 am EST.

[LaserGuy]

Lazerguy: Generally being active and asking questions, but Fred vote right after Freddino engages is weak at best and I don’t like it. Also giving themselves an out to flip flop on the handshake interaction doesn’t sit well with me.

You have a suspiciously low bar for Fred being engaged. You also apparently never thought to ask why I was voting Fred.

Well I did, so please elaborate

Why do you think I did? I think we've played together enough by this point that you should have at least some idea of what I usually look for when I read people.

[TehBubblez]

Hey yall, very sorry about my inactivity, it's been an adjustment period for me the past few days trying to get my sleep schedule adjusted for a 3rd shift job I'm starting next week. I will get more posted tonight/tomorrow

[TehBubblez]

Oh also

Unvote

That wasn't a serious vote obviously

[Bop]

Noting that you missed my comments about scum!Madge that might be relevant to your thoughts here.

I did! I'll consider that, I appreciate you linking the meta of another game to go off of. I'll try to read a bit of that game in the meantime.

You have a suspiciously low bar for Fred being engaged. You also apparently never thought to ask why I was voting Fred.

It's the fact that your vote came directly after that got me. But I'll admit on re-reading your vote I must have assumed/projected your reasoning based on other people's comments at the time re: Freddino's engagement.

However as to the second point

Don't have super strong reasons for any of the below EGW group being mafia at this point, just haven't found enough evidence to convince me that they're Town.

Vote: Fred

I shouldn't have to ask why you've voted! If there's a reason, would it not behoove you to begin with it? I certainly don't feel better that you've got no stated reason at all.

Well I did, so please elaborate

Why do you think I did? I think we've played together enough by this point that you should have at least some idea of what I usually look for when I read people.

This is your current response when being directly asked. So should I ask or wait for you to make others gleam the answer based on past behavior?

[Bop]

Oh also

Unvote

That wasn't a serious vote obviously

I've got to say I feel a lot worse with this added. I'd love for you to elaborate in your next post when you're able to put that together bc

Why me fry me is gospel tho folks, trust

Bubblez wagon plz

I really don't think asking for reasoning is that big of an issue, and you are drawing an awful lot of attention to it, but if you want to opp this hard on me that's fine buddy

Vote: Makhaira

To me this certainly came off as serious!

[TehBubblez]

Oh also

Unvote

That wasn't a serious vote obviously

I've got to say I feel a lot worse with this added. I'd love for you to elaborate in your next post when you're able to put that together bc

Why me fry me is gospel tho folks, trust

Bubblez wagon plz

I really don't think asking for reasoning is that big of an issue, and you are drawing an awful lot of attention to it, but if you want to opp this hard on me that's fine buddy

Vote: Makhaira

To me this certainly came off as serious!

I've been busy for two days and haven't been able to read back and get actual good reads on anyone past that point, so not knowing what Mak looks like anymore and wanting to hold off judgement until I backread seems valid instead of having a dumb OMGUS vote out there, that's all. The vote might still go back to Mak, but not until I read.

[LaserGuy]

I shouldn't have to ask why you've voted! If there's a reason, would it not behoove you to begin with it? I certainly don't feel better that you've got no stated reason at all.

Same post where I made those comments about madge, I said this:

I often don't bother explaining my reads until I post my full list unless somebody asks about it. It's more helpful to see who is engaged.

Well I did, so please elaborate

Why do you think I did? I think we've played together enough by this point that you should have at least some idea of what I usually look for when I read people.

This is your current response when being directly asked. So should I ask or wait for you to make others gleam the answer based on past behavior?

I will explain my vote shortly, but I want to hear what Fred thinks first.

[EGW]

vote: ahippo

Giving them a big xkcdmafia welcome back

I would have it no other way. Good to be back!

vote: moody
Only fair.

God, I forgot the joys of day one. "Nothing has happened yet, but some of you MUST be bad guys, so I'm goin' off ... vibes. Vibes have never steered me or anyone else wrong before! I'm sure it'll be fine."

Joke post.

Hippo and bubblez are both lame and cringe for OMGUS voting, its only cool and smart when I do it duh

And yes hippo fry me = pressure/elim the slot

Hippo starts responding to this, yet likely sees Bop's response in P-edit, and adapts his response after reading it.

Hippo and bubblez are both lame and cringe for OMGUS voting, its only cool and smart when I do it duh

lol, I took the vote as like a handshake or a high five! It would be rude to not reciprocate! Random voting is how old mafia forum cohorts show affection, right?

The statement in question.

Bop and hippo when is the last time yall played in a game together, regardless of whether you were the same alignment or not

Mak questions Hippo on this.

Straight up got ninja'd and didn't notice.

This, does not seem like a valid answer. This feels like Mafia trying to keep calm while being questioned, yet he gives an answer that doesn't make sense.

Yep you should not have claimed that

You're probably right, but I do like having no more beans to spill. Assuming you trust what I said, I'm a known quantity. I'll accept that over trying to be cagey.

He claims, mentioning he doesn't like being Cagey. Yet sits there doing nothing else. This seems like he believes he fumbled, and claimed to recover. This bleeds mafia survival instinct. His motive for rolefishing Moody doesn't make sense. Especially since it was a joke post.

[EGW]

This interaction is super weird but FWIW I had the same impression of ahippo's vote on moody so it could be coincidence/groupthink. I kinda agree with Sabrar that this is too on the nose to be staged.

What remains to be seen here is the interaction is weird. Yet that's because of Hippo. Everyone is letting the claim clear themselves when their actions doesn't align with a town alignment.

I guess I believe this and likely means you're Town. Your power is pretty strong though and as I suggested above, open claiming like this probably just puts a target on your back for the night kill (or helps scum narrow the search for better targets). I wouldn't bother even hinting at who you might target... it will be obvious down the line.

Big mistake here. I've let scum pass by in situations like this, for example the previous game where I was initially correct on Madge, but she turned out to be scum after all. Laser, you are disappointed by the reasoning Hippo gave, and so am I. That's the best pointer to them being scum regardless of claim.