Tales of Desolation mafia Day 2

[moody7277]

If this is the case, you should move your vote, and to someone you feel is suspect. Any thoughts on that so far?

Since that was a RV, it was more likely than not to be moved anyway. I do have a few other town reads, so narrowing the list of votables. My thoughts on heury are following the path with the common result of him being miselimed D1, so I will be deferring a vote on him. Plan is to do a deep dive and come up with a firm vote tomorrow evening and Saturday.

unvote

[Seven]

Vote count 1.4
1. Makhaira - TehBubblez
2. EGW -
3. Moody7277 -
4. Wam -
5. Sabrar -
6. ahippo - Bessie
7. TehBubblez - Makhaira
8. Boomfrog - heuristically_alone
9. Bop -
10. Bessie -
11. Freddino18 - LaserGuy
12. JC_DADDY25 -
13. heuristically_alone - Bop, Wam
14. Madge -
15. Laserguy - Boomfrog

Not voting: EGW, Sabrar, Freddino18, JC_DADDY25, Madge, ahippo, Moody7277

With 15 players alive it takes 8 to eliminate

The deadline is set for Sunday January 20th at 2 am EST.

[boomfrog]

...

(Mak don't take this as me trying to pocket you. Scum!boomfrog would make this same post)

Hmm BoomFrog is really concerned with looking like he's pocketing that he had to clarify.

Vote: BoomFrog

Vote early, vote often!

I appreciate the vote, I really do. But the reason I'm posting a disclaimer like that is to try and avoid locking horns with someone I already town read. It would end up as a bunch of distracting low value content clogging up the thread.

If this is true, I would lean freddino towards less scummy

Can you explain this thought process in more detail please?

I only see Fred as town alluding to his role and changing his profile pic

I think this just means Fred cares about the flavor. Doesn't scum!Fred want to appear townie and so makes the same change?

BoomFrog is the only one I've gotten a ping. Waiting on Bessie to see if she pulls up game knowledge to prove me wrong.

Do we really need to force her to spend time on research? Bessie has already vouched for it off memory, Sabrar and Laserguy can confirm as well. Since I don't want to bother Sabrar, @LaserGuy can you confirm I generally vote seriously early D1? I mean, it's probably already too late. She's likely to do the research before she reads my post here. She likes to process things in order.

Unvote LG

Vote Heury

[Bop]

God, sorry to hear Sab. No worries at taking some time, seriously.


Okay, trying to get my current D1 reads figured out below. I will probably not use this framing again for my list.



Hearty Stew of Likely Town

Ahippo: I’m not saying role claiming a complicated, contingent on others use twice role after failing to get someone’s night action information when asking if that makes sense and acting relieved to not have secrets can’t be scummy and this can’t be a great play by scum(considering ahippo does have a mafia history, just not a recent one). But I’m saying I’d need a life changing amount of suspicious behavior to see it that way. I do wish he gave/had opinions on anyone that being the case.

Mak: Aggressive early play can go both ways, but I looked a tiny amount at some of the previous games on this forum to get some sort of read bc I kept flip flopping on my opinion. Their posts seem a lot more consistent with Town Mak than the single Scum Mak I could find……but scum mak was more busy in the game I found so it wasn’t as helpful as I wanted. I disagree on many of their takes (first two pages why me fry me being a big one as has already been discussed) but I do think they are legitimate takes at this time. Certainly not afraid to have enemies which is another point for being up here.



Refreshing soup of positive to neutral

Bessie: Her posts are full of specific insights and there’s a lot to gather. For now, seems open and asks specific questions of people, which gives us a lot more to read off of those answers. She is willing to have specific on the record opinions, and that's good this early. That said, if that ahippo vote stays too long as we approach deadline, just for the dislike of the claim that’s dropping her a lot for me. Depends on the next bark.

Boomfrog:
Similar read to Bessie, asks specific and direct questions and doesn’t seem to be afraid of making enemies day one.

Sabrar - I’m starting to like the cut of your jib, does call out specific things. Explicit sideline decision when ahippo began the path to claiming is a little weird.



Simmering neutral ph water (would like to see more before settling):

Teh Bubblez: As discussed before I don’t see their reaction to Mak as inherently scummy. Hasn’t given much to go off of beyond that.

Freddino: Alluded to role through avatar, posted abt take on potential multiball through role pm insights. Not much here yet.

Madge- I’ll need some time to think on where I land on her. While millers and scum both have a reason to claim miller early as it’s one of the two PR I feel scum have incentive to claim in a zanier game(alongside cop) I do think it’s way riskier to claim miller so probably more likely town here. Has been busy and seems to be famously anti day one so opting out of explicit reads entirely bc of the lack of substance. I’d assume this tracks regardless of alignment as that discussion was happening in the signups.

EGW- Recently started being active. Is asking direct questions and giving some takes at least, but too early for me to gleam anything definitive.



Waterier Broth in a Juice Pitcher of Neutral to Scummy:

Moody: Moody has been giving explicit opinions, but Cynical View raises an eyebrow for opening the door to a bit of both sidesing.

JC: Giving themselves a lot of room to go either way on the things they’ve spoken on similar to above.

Lazerguy: Generally being active and asking questions, but Fred vote right after Freddino engages is weak at best and I don’t like it. Also giving themselves an out to flip flop on the handshake interaction doesn’t sit well with me.

Wam: I struggled a bit here, but Wam has a lot more to say abt other games than this one and that reads as choosing not to engage and hoping to slide by.

Heuristically_alone: Has posted reads which is good, but to be honest his defense was far too jokey for me for both times they’ve been voted. I could live with that against my early vote, but against a later one as we get close to deadline??? Also I know it’s day one but they seem to not actually engage for a lot of other direct callouts. Barely engaged for a direct vote. Screams "I don't want to come off as not talking but I also don't want to talk myself into a hole" to me. I honestly stand by my vote.

[boomfrog]

@madge: Don't you have any read based impressions at all? Do you see why people find Mak's pure conviction and urgency to get town organized townie?

@TehBubblez, @wam : I expected more activity from you, what's going on?

Sabrar: (no @ so no ping because not urgent) My condolences.

@JC_DADDY25: Can we get a scum to town list, even if it just based on gut?

[madge]

I honestly don't see why people think Mak is town, no. This game is moving so fast and I'm so busy. I'm regretting signing up as a player tbh.

[Makhaira]

Hippo, how did bop know that you interpreted the RVS vote on you as a handshake/high five before you posted to say thats how you interpreted it

I don't interpret it that way. To me I initially believed that Hippo was voting Moody in jest. So Bop's point of view on this makes sense. Yet, to me it seems like Hippo adapted his response with Bop's wording as he was responding. Meaning, Hippo was struggling to come up with the words himself. I find that more likely.

ok I see what you mean. I think we can just ask them this explicitly if this is the case

Also ahippos return vote is more returning a handshake than anything substantial.

lol, I took the vote as like a handshake or a high five! It would be rude to not reciprocate! Random voting is how old mafia forum cohorts show affection, right?

hippo, did you see bop's post before making yours? and if so did his word choice affect yours? or were you legitimately ninjad?

[bessie]

Daily bark!

Dumb, earnest townie is easier for me than sly, manipulative townie. Maybe it's an "embodied cognition" thing, but at least now there's no point in being coy. Consider that my best reason, even if you don't think it's good enough.

I don’t necessarily consider early claiming dumb so please don’t take my opposition to it personally. I also don’t consider not claiming sly or manipulative. I think that it is more advantageous to town to withhold claiming until there is a good reason to do so, like a result that leads directly to scum. I also am against early claiming because I think that it is against the spirit of the game and not as fun, but maybe that’s just me.

Oh, and Bessie, I only asked Boom about it because he made it a point to ask for Fred to post something that could help town. I feel like Fred tries to avoid people's radar in the first few days and tries to be different in general. It attracts attention, but also makes people forget about him at the same time. If that makes any sense.

Oh, that was a joke (as to why you didn’t ask me).

Work is beating my ass, expect heavy content Fridays through Sundays, with catchup posts Mondays through Thursdays (today being the end of my Wednesday)

I am looking forward to your posts!

On another note I was just informed that a colleague passed away due to a sudden illness. I'll be back later, maybe this evening, maybe tomorrow.

Sorry my dearest mafia friend. Don’t worry about posting if you need a break.

1. I think the current meta of accepting an early, unprompted claim as Town is still applicable, however I'm pretty sure that sooner or later it will backfire if people don't adjust, as there will come a courageous scum who decides to risk and exploits it. You have to take into account context and personality as well (if known).

Since I am one of the very few (maybe only) players that does not accept an early, unprompted claim as auto-town, I agree with this!

2. Somewhat related to that, I dislike rigid rules that are taken as universal truths. I can understand the immediate reaction of 'rolefish = scum' but that is a shortsighted view that doesn't really tries to understand where the question is coming from.

I don’t necessary believe rolefish = scum, rather rolefish = scummy. Scummy scum, or unhelpful town. Either is a point against the perpetrator, in my mind.

I was gauging whether yall thought scum!bessie would avoid throwing pot shots at me like this to avoid drawing my attention. I appreciate all yalls input

Yep, my annoyingly aggressive female puppiness is completely NAI.

I only see Fred as town alluding to his role and changing his profile pic

I’m totally flavor blind and I also don’t know what Fred’s profile pic is, but I really think we need to like, not encourage Fred to do these things, even if the mod rules that it’s ok for him to try to tip his role by use of his avatar. I think Fred should be trying to show his cleverness by posting some reads, not by looking for ways to give us the secret sign.

I'm town brother, I was just out of town until now. I have returned home.

A town claim from EGW? Grrrrr.

Have you done this before in previous games off-site? Can you link your most recent town and scum game?

I know you didn’t ask me but I’ll try to help because the xkcd games will be hard to find and will be on the internet archive, which is frustratingly difficult to navigate (and not searchable). This is his last game on the old forum (if he doesn’t answer himself I might be able to find more): https://web.archive.org/web/20170926112 ... 13122243fa

@ahippo, have you played anywhere else since 2017?

speaking of things to love about me: after last game, I am REFUSING to read or post in the final hour before deadline. I will make my post and then not look at the game. This is for my own damn mental health. I am posting about it now when there's no scramble and you can all READ THIS and decide that this is something you're going to have to work around.

This is reasonable. Everyone should have a serious vote down at least an hour before deadline, then we can work up getting an elimination if necessary.

Oh, and it's D1 so let's give us something to talk about: I'm a miller.

Well dammit I guess this is the one role that you’re supposed to claim early, but I still think you should have waited.

Do we really need to force her to spend time on research? Bessie has already vouched for it off memory, Sabrar and Laserguy can confirm as well. Since I don't want to bother Sabrar, @LaserGuy can you confirm I generally vote seriously early D1? I mean, it's probably already too late. She's likely to do the research before she reads my post here. She likes to process things in order.

Actual research (anything not off the top of my head) needs to wait until Saturday but I am pretty sure I can find examples. I can’t afford to waste any of my precious weeknight mafia time on research. It has been taking me about an hour and a half just to do the daily bark, and that’s without EGW’s normal posting level.


@Bop, I don’t have anywhere to move my vote yet. I’ll try to get some preliminary reads tomorrow night.
And +1 for the relatively early and comprehensive reads list. I’ll try to read in depth and respond but I’m trying to wrap this up for now. My dog and my husband are barking for their dinners.

Ninja'd while I was typing this, back later if I can manage it.

[Makhaira]

Yes, millar claim is real

I'll definitely have a vote by E-1h but don't expect me to have good justification on D1. I'll do my best and vote in good faith.

I don't give a rats whether it makes me look scummy or not. This will be my policy on all future games.

unironically all im asking for. Im certainly not expecting a full solve and full perfectly ordered readlist D1, and anyone who is is wack. just please leave some meaningful papertrail and take real stances that you back up with votes. create accountability for yourself, its pro town. I just dont want slots using "I hate D1" as an excuse to dodge papertrail, its free mitigation for the scum if we let that fly. and of course the point ive already made about not laying votes down if you wont be around at deadline diluting the voting pool and making hitting majority harder. I wasnt accusing you of griefing or anything I was just saying like hey lets plan around you committing to not being at deadline so it doesnt end up causing grief

Also: how about instead of putting it on me to be available to vote during the last hour, let's make the decision and complete the vote before then? As scum last game I was thrilled that we had the opportunity to put our finger on the scale during times when so many peoples' votes were frozen (due to sleeping patterns/etc). It's D1, we don't have night results, we have very few claims, let's make a decision before the eleventh hour. Then you can ask me all the questions and get all the justification you want for my position BECAUSE WE WILL HAVE MORE THAN AN HOUR AND NOT BE UNDER PRESSURE.

100% agree with you, but I get crucified for being aggro and pushing quick elims here. we could be unlikely allies on this front but Im telling you its an uphill battle. Lets just say plurality voting being the favored playstyle is a preference in this community for a reason and leave it at that

I am so fucking down to push wagons to E-2 range more than 24 hours before deadline like PLEASE

I honestly don't see why people think Mak is town, no. This game is moving so fast and I'm so busy. I'm regretting signing up as a player tbh.

please dont be discouraged that feeling is going to be natural if you arent used to playing in 15 player games the volume just naturally trends larger but just set realistic goals for yourself thats all anyone can ask! I for one do not think you arent carrying your weight there are plenty more slots that have less body of work than you

Its D1, in 15 player games it has even lower long run impact than normal! I for one am actually trying to abide by my profile pic and not spam and overclog the thread, there are a lot of voices we want to hear from this phase, diversity is more key than volume in early game

[madge]

It would have brought me unreasonable joy to claim miller with one hour until deadline and then walk away from the explosion in slow mo, but I figured I should just slip it in gently when it's not going to derail much of anything.

[Makhaira]

sabrar Im sorry for your loss man =(

[Makhaira]

I tentatively want to give madge +town for that but its also in her range hmmmmm

[Makhaira]

I'm town brother, I was just out of town until now. I have returned home.

A town claim from EGW? Grrrrr.

I do think you have to give him a little bit of a pass for this, I did literally make it personal LOL

[Makhaira]

Oh, and it's D1 so let's give us something to talk about: I'm a miller.

Well dammit I guess this is the one role that you’re supposed to claim early, but I still think you should have waited.

can you expand on this take more? Im interested in your rationale

[heuristically_alone]

Do we really need to force her to spend time on research? Bessie has already vouched for it off memory, Sabrar and Laserguy can confirm as well. Since I don't want to bother Sabrar, @LaserGuy can you confirm I generally vote seriously early D1? I mean, it's probably already too late. She's likely to do the research before she reads my post here. She likes to process things in order.

Actual research (anything not off the top of my head) needs to wait until Saturday but I am pretty sure I can find examples. I can’t afford to waste any of my precious weeknight mafia time on research. It has been taking me about an hour and a half just to do the daily bark, and that’s without EGW’s normal posting level.

I'm willing to admit I'm incorrect about BoomFrog. But I can't seem to shake the feeling that he feels more pushy than I recall before.

Heuristically_alone: Has posted reads which is good, but to be honest his defense was far too jokey for me for both times they’ve been voted. I could live with that against my early vote, but against a later one as we get close to deadline??? Also I know it’s day one but they seem to not actually engage for a lot of other direct callouts. Barely engaged for a direct vote. Screams "I don't want to come off as not talking but I also don't want to talk myself into a hole" to me. I honestly stand by my vote.

Haha you think a day or two later is close to deadline? I'll gladly get you a calendar because you clearly don't have one.

I think this just means Fred cares about the flavor. Doesn't scum!Fred want to appear townie and so makes the same change?

I think there's another evidence to suggest by now freddino isn't going for a look out me I'm town approach but rather trying to crumb and hint at his townness. Which I don't believe scum!Fred would do.

Also: how about instead of putting it on me to be available to vote during the last hour, let's make the decision and complete the vote before then?

This!!!!

Right now willing to switch vote to bop, moody JC, maybe EGW. Need some good arguments for anyone else.

[heuristically_alone]

@EGW definitely confused you with someone else either way regardless moving EGW to more of NAI until more content can be divulged.

[boomfrog]

I am so fucking down to push wagons to E-2 range more than 24 hours before deadline like PLEASE

Ditto, but I've never gotten enough traction here to make it work. If yeeting before deadline is a valid possibility it makes everyone's actions so much more meaningful leading up to there which means much richer information to mine on D2.

[madge]

Join with me friends and let's all agree to not post in the last hour of deadline! Let's all pledge to have a vote down at E minus 24 hours! WE CAN BE THE CHANGE WE WISH TO SEE IN THE WORLD

[boomfrog]

Also, I would like to preregister with the Sabrar YAL* enforcement squad that I have told 1 lie so far this game.

*(Sabrar has a policy to Yeet All Liars)

[madge]

quick boomfrog say i'm your favourite

then re-register your lie number

[Sabrar]

Thank you all. Readlist and vote are planned for Saturday, I don't mind being pinged in the meantime if you have questions but I won't be checking in as often.

Also, I would like to preregister with the Sabrar YAL* enforcement squad that I have told 1 lie so far this game.

*(Sabrar has a policy to Yeet All Liars)

With time comes wisdom (supposedly). This evolved Sabrar does not adhere to such rigid rules anymore (as explained previously), I can appreciate the value of a good town-gambit, doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Freddino18]

I had forgotten about but will now consider the "low effort" disclaimer before game. I've had the same in the past and find it frustrating when I get scum read for for it. But I do have concerns.

@Sabrar: My originally vote was because LG hasn't brought any actually pro-town unique insights to the game yet. He's generally insightful and notice things others (or at least myself) miss. Some of this could be explained by him being on less and having less chance to be the first on the scene for something interesting happening. We'll see if his madge take is satisfying or not.

Yes, bessie, you'd suffocate.

Work was mad today, I really should have stayed as a replacement. Right now I have two employees and on Monday I'll have three. I've got to set a good example by not being on the forum!!!

I'll do a proper post tomorrow, unless I don't. D1 is so performative and I'm pretty convinced that any ability to read this is well beyond me.

@Bessie have I ever made a good read, myself? an actual read, not like, mechanics analysis. I don't recall it ever happening, but you somehow have a photographic memory of 10+ years of mafia stuff (I'm another who started on xkcdia in 2012, hi)

Hmm... I think madge is Town.

Please elaborate on what is townie about her post. Also, what was your goal in not just explaining the read?

Setup spec, 14 players with one "player" secretly being an additional moderator with no win condition and with 2-shot mod kills, can't both be used against the same faction twice. 9-3-2, town mafia mafia.

I'm not quite sure how to interpret this. You think there are two players with no wincon at all?

Can you describe your mental state when you made this post? And explain your thought process as you remember it?

Town
ahippo
Mak
Sabrar
Bubbles
Madge
BoomFrog
moody
JC
Bop
EGW <------- Null Line
Wam
heury
bessie
Fred
Scum

Don't have super strong reasons for any of the below EGW group being mafia at this point, just haven't found enough evidence to convince me that they're Town.

Vote: Fred

Why is Bop so low?

Why am I so low?

[Freddino18]

EBWOP: And looks like mod confirmed that fact in thread.

That was a pre-edit, not edit-by-post. If you're going to throw terminology around willy-nilly, at least use the right term

[Freddino18]

I honestly don't see why people think Mak is town, no. This game is moving so fast and I'm so busy. I'm regretting signing up as a player tbh.

Two pages a day is not fast lmao

[Wam]

@fred what have you done to not be so low?