Halloween 2024: The Time Travellers' Party [D3]

[AdumbroDeus]

I would urge people to exercise restraint in clearing slots as being unable to kill based on claims of roleblocking. I would not be even remotely surprised if scum had a strongman and I'm surprised so many people are considering ninja without similarly considering strongman potential. Also not all mods consider factional abilities, such as an NK, to be roleblockable. Sometimes mods consider roleblocking to only apply to individual abilities. Also if we have an SK in game there is almost 0% chance the SK isn't atleast ninja or strongman. But given how few kills we have seen this game I don't think we are dealing with 2 killing roles/factions. If anything I'm getting vibes we may be dealing with a non-killing scum faction with special parity rules a la Jungle Republic. Like a 2-3 size non killing antitown faction and a 1-2 size killing antitown faction

Fair point, I actually thought roleblocker overrode strongman but checking the wiki it looks like I'm wrong.

That said, whose carrying the power? Both Bessie and (by POE) Moody have confirmed powers. This fits more with either being a full-time strongman or a JOAT with a one shot in their toolbox.

Do you think "mafia" is killing or non-killing in this scenario?

Possibly mafia has a factional strongman and/or ninja ability that they can add as rider to their kill.

That would be incredibly powerful, and if true, makes me think that there's no third party or if there is, they're town compatible.

[Makhaira]

I knew you were role cop which is why I included it in the known/anticipated role list. I don’t believe you though on why you targeted Mak. What is his role?

Motivating Loudener, but also how did you know my role?

Interesting. So somi knew your specific role.

yes somi knew my exact role which is why I had zero doubt somis power claim was truthful and why I was ok eliming the slot over the suspicious choice of picking me and the provided rationale

[Seven]

This game is incredibly town sided as it stands. We need to assume that it’s not so town sided in actuality and mafia has some big guns.

[Makhaira]

I would urge people to exercise restraint in clearing slots as being unable to kill based on claims of roleblocking. I would not be even remotely surprised if scum had a strongman and I'm surprised so many people are considering ninja without similarly considering strongman potential. Also not all mods consider factional abilities, such as an NK, to be roleblockable. Sometimes mods consider roleblocking to only apply to individual abilities. Also if we have an SK in game there is almost 0% chance the SK isn't atleast ninja or strongman. But given how few kills we have seen this game I don't think we are dealing with 2 killing roles/factions. If anything I'm getting vibes we may be dealing with a non-killing scum faction with special parity rules a la Jungle Republic. Like a 2-3 size non killing antitown faction and a 1-2 size killing antitown faction

I asked and RB does stop factional kills, but yea strongman is a possibility.

Good to know

[Makhaira]

This game is incredibly town sided as it stands. We need to assume that it’s not so town sided in actuality and mafia has some big guns.

Literally this. Its either one super powered scum faction or multiball with slightly more diluted antitown power with scum abilities focused on creating disinformation or the ability to dodge/fuck with investigations, like more defensive powers than offensive

[AdumbroDeus]

Thought I addressed this already sorry if I forgot, I targeted wam because he was the leading wagon before somi swing and red flip, I think he is relatively townie by play, but I do think his role seems suspiciously powerful and has plenty of potential utility for an antitown slot. His JOAT powers not being loud by default in contrast to the other JOATs made me suspicious. I wanted to motivate him and make him loud so we can get some extra value out of his claimed powers and direct them as we see fit because his abilities will be loudened and thus made public so if he steps out of line with our directions we will be told so and can elim him. Basically I'm trying to hold his seemingly overpowered role and powers accountable to town consensus

Ok that does make sense.

What I'm concerned about is it's possible that could allow them to do a double factional kill.

I am relying on a perhaps unwarranted assumption that my motivation ability would not double factional abilities such as an NK. I will admit that this is entirely my own personal experience and derivative bias speaking. If wam is an SK where the kill isn't factional and it enables him to double kill it should at least be made mechanically conspicuous by my loudening effect (unless he is a ninja and ninja status trumps my loudening), or it will be circumstantially conspicuous by 2 kills happening next night phase which is my motivating on wam will trigger

Worth asking, since it's actually you're asking about the interaction between your role and normal roles. The only thing I could see Madge and Sabrar balking at is the SK question since mafia factional kills are in basically every game, but even SKs are common enough that they should answer.

I'll be real, my instinct when your action sunk in was to immediately check the numbers to see if that could result in an endgame.

[Makhaira]

I might be willing to go moody here over bessie if people really think I'm wrong on bessie but my gut is screaming bessie scum and it won't stop

[Seven]

I go to sleep now (I came home for a nap). I’m going to disappear for a couple of days. I do think moody is a hit. The post about why he had Adum as town and not me is just not real. Town!moody would have 100% town read Seven at that point. Then he doesn’t even ISO me despite the fact that I didn’t have a high pay count at the time.

[LaserGuy]

Fair point, I actually thought roleblocker overrode strongman but checking the wiki it looks like I'm wrong.

That said, whose carrying the power? Both Bessie and (by POE) Moody have confirmed powers. This fits more with either being a full-time strongman or a JOAT with a one shot in their toolbox.

Do you think "mafia" is killing or non-killing in this scenario?

Possibly mafia has a factional strongman and/or ninja ability that they can add as rider to their kill.

That would be incredibly powerful, and if true, makes me think that there's no third party or if there is, they're town compatible.

These are the factional powers somi and I had during Hallowe'en 2023. Either of us could use them; each were one shot.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Ninja: Assuming no interference with your action, you will not appear to watcher- and tracker-like roles that night.
Strongman: Assuming no interference with your action, your night kill cannot be stopped.
Roleblocker: Assuming no interference with your action, that player's active abilities will be blocked that night.
Godfather: Assuming no interference with your action, you will read as ‘town’ to investigative actions that night.
Cop: Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether that player is scum or not.
Chat cop: Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether that player has the ability to chat that night.
Tracker: Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn who that player targeted that night.
Watcher: Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn who targeted that player that night.

[Theallieza]

Oops,.posted under my alt account. Sorry.

[AdumbroDeus]

Possibly mafia has a factional strongman and/or ninja ability that they can add as rider to their kill.

That would be incredibly powerful, and if true, makes me think that there's no third party or if there is, they're town compatible.

These are the factional powers somi and I had during Hallowe'en 2023. Either of us could use them; each were one shot.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Ninja: Assuming no interference with your action, you will not appear to watcher- and tracker-like roles that night.
Strongman: Assuming no interference with your action, your night kill cannot be stopped.
Roleblocker: Assuming no interference with your action, that player's active abilities will be blocked that night.
Godfather: Assuming no interference with your action, you will read as ‘town’ to investigative actions that night.
Cop: Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether that player is scum or not.
Chat cop: Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether that player has the ability to chat that night.
Tracker: Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn who that player targeted that night.
Watcher: Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn who targeted that player that night.

You're on the wrong account.

Oh, did you mean one-shot?

Regardless your mafia roles were both references to you have a shared JOAT pool.

[AdumbroDeus]

I go to sleep now (I came home for a nap). I’m going to disappear for a couple of days. I do think moody is a hit. The post about why he had Adum as town and not me is just not real. Town!moody would have 100% town read Seven at that point. Then he doesn’t even ISO me despite the fact that I didn’t have a high pay count at the time.

What about the "you are next" post? It's the only post I got any real conviction from them but I also just, got 0 conviction from them last Halloween at all.

[AdumbroDeus]

I might be willing to go moody here over bessie if people really think I'm wrong on bessie but my gut is screaming bessie scum and it won't stop

I'm really not seeing Bessie scum here, their interactions with me were ridiculously genuine as a cop that knew they had an insane result and setup wise that they need be there to explain every result and start with insane, then paranoid makes it almost impossible for them not to claim early which in turn makes it much more likely they can be removed as a factor. That removes a LOT of the power the role would otherwise have.

You get a post-game apology if I'm wrong.

[Theallieza]

Motivating Loudener, but also how did you know my role?

Interesting. So somi knew your specific role.

yes somi knew my exact role which is why I had zero doubt somis power claim was truthful and why I was ok eliming the slot over the suspicious choice of picking me and the provided rationale

Thanks. I think this rules out a Wam/Somi pairing except in the exact combination where Mak is also mafia.

[Theallieza]

There is no fixing this paranoia.


You both are full up on confirmation bias and adding increasingly unlikely attributes game attributes to make it work, then treating that the theory exists as proof that it's what happened without any mech or social evidence it's what happened.

And yet you conspicuously still aren't claiming.

[AdumbroDeus]

There is no fixing this paranoia.


You both are full up on confirmation bias and adding increasingly unlikely attributes game attributes to make it work, then treating that the theory exists as proof that it's what happened without any mech or social evidence it's what happened.

And yet you conspicuously still aren't claiming.

Yes I did. You wanna know what I did last night?

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[Makhaira]

Alright I'll sheep you here Seven

Vote: Moody

If this flips green prepare for lots of grief from me lmao

Ill try to do a full night action accounting analysis over the next day or so

I think if adum is scum it has to be with bessie, or he's indy. Not convince he's a antitown tho and I think moody and bessie need to be flipped before adum

[AdumbroDeus]

The same is true of what I can do for any future night unless somebody gifts me a power, which I don't think exists in this setup.

[Makhaira]

Adum if you're tapped can you please just full claim then to help us narrow worlds? You seemed to have reason to believe you stopped a kill, a more thorough walking thru of that would be helpful, especially when you seem to believe it's exculpatory

[Santygrass]

Interesting. So somi knew your specific role.

yes somi knew my exact role which is why I had zero doubt somis power claim was truthful and why I was ok eliming the slot over the suspicious choice of picking me and the provided rationale

Thanks. I think this rules out a Wam/Somi pairing except in the exact combination where Mak is also mafia.

Why?

[Theallieza]

yes somi knew my exact role which is why I had zero doubt somis power claim was truthful and why I was ok eliming the slot over the suspicious choice of picking me and the provided rationale

Thanks. I think this rules out a Wam/Somi pairing except in the exact combination where Mak is also mafia.

Why?

Assuming Adum was the NK target, then it is extremely unlikely that any other scum would bother using their powers on him. Wam evidently did use a power on Adum N1 since he knew the name of bessie's role, and it is obscure enough that the only way he likely could have got it correct is if either 1) bessie and Wam are scum together; 2) somi rolecopped bessie and knew her role or 3) Wam did in fact use a Watcher power on Adum and part of the team that did the NK.

1) Would mean that two mafia, both Wam and bessie, targeted Adum separately with their powers AND tried to NK him. This seems... extremely implausible.
2) Would mean that Somi did not rolecop Mak, so the only way he could know Mak's exact role is if Somi and Mak are mafia. So the only team that works is Somi/Mak/Wam.
3) Wam and Somi are not mafia together.

[Theallieza]

3) Wam did in fact use a Watcher power on Adum and is not part of the team that did the NK.

EWBOP

[AdumbroDeus]

Adum if you're tapped can you please just full claim then to help us narrow worlds? You seemed to have reason to believe you stopped a kill, a more thorough walking thru of that would be helpful, especially when you seem to believe it's exculpatory

I'm not tapping out, I'm trying to use my death to bully you all into actually thinking about what makes sense in the game and hopefully winning it, and hopefully figuring out the solve. The "case" against me has no mechanical evidence, no social evidence, it's just "possible" and that's enough because I'm apparently the scum godking.

I don't think it's exculpatory per say. I do think revealing it makes no sense for otherscum to reveal. You know the actual power, you just don't know the modifier and explaining my thought process thought process requires explaining the modifier. I don't think the actual thought process would help to explain, not when people are working backwards like this, but if you all fully commit to yeeting me I'll explain right before death.

[AdumbroDeus]

Thanks. I think this rules out a Wam/Somi pairing except in the exact combination where Mak is also mafia.

Why?

Assuming Adum was the NK target, then it is extremely unlikely that any other scum would bother using their powers on him. Wam evidently did use a power on Adum N1 since he knew the name of bessie's role, and it is obscure enough that the only way he likely could have got it correct is if either 1) bessie and Wam are scum together; 2) somi rolecopped bessie and knew her role or 3) Wam did in fact use a Watcher power on Adum and part of the team that did the NK.

1) Would mean that two mafia, both Wam and bessie, targeted Adum separately with their powers AND tried to NK him. This seems... extremely implausible.
2) Would mean that Somi did not rolecop Mak, so the only way he could know Mak's exact role is if Somi and Mak are mafia. So the only team that works is Somi/Mak/Wam.
3) Wam and Somi are not mafia together.

The failure of this reasoning is

1. it's not obscure, it's just the actual standard modifier for doing what Bessie did if he looked it up on the mafiascum wiki.

2. It wasn't Bessie's full rolename.

3. Missing Seven's "loud" and getting Bessie's "publishing" is inconsistent.

[Makhaira]

I dont mean tapped as in tapping out of the game, I mean you are "tapped out" as a power role. Your last two posts about your night actions state you did nothing last night and that you can't do anything else for the rest of the game, so you are functionally claiming to now be a VT. Given this, there is no risk to the town of losing an active PR to NKs based on your full claim. You are suggesting you have no powers left to use, so you might as well full claim and give us everything you did do in full detail