Are we human or are we dancer mafia (game over, Dancers win!)

[moody7277]

I was not expecting the fred madge crossover, was honestly coming into this phase leaning moody, I think madge and Fred's play is harder to fake as scum

Moody, if you are town, please don't vote yet, we have till Friday. And if it's between Fred and madge, we have good reason to vote Fred because if he's telling the truth about his claim we should be able to shoot madge, barring weird parity rulings of madge being bulletproof

Made and Fred if yall are town I recommend removing your votes in case moody is scum

I will try to get my re-read in asap, sorry I'm busy tonight but we don't have to rush this at all so please ppay patiently and cautiously here

nope! lied about my power

Seven gets away with that kind of shit because she's Seven. You are not. Tread carefully.

[madge]

I'm just upset he knew to wriggle out of the fake claim at this point lol

[madge]

Mak, have you played with Santy? What are they like? I suspect none of the three voting players have experience with them

[Makhaira]

This was my first experience with santy sorry I have no meta insight

Fred faking the claim def throws a wrench in my worldviews, yeah this game needs a full reread

Moody if you are town please just be patient and let's figure this out, I won't leave you hanging, let's agree to at minimum be online together to chat the game thru Wednesday night we then have a full 24 hour cushion to make the call

This is all assuming Moody isn't scum and isn't just fucking with us but not hammering

[moody7277]

This is all assuming Moody isn't scum and isn't just fucking with us but not hammering

I'm not that cruel. Game would already be over if I were scum.

[madge]

yeah if scum!moody didn't hammer i don't think the community would ever forgive him (i certainly wouldn't given i'm gonna carve away some time to do a fuckin' re-read of an 85 page game tomorrow)

[moody7277]

Fred

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

post 1: RV on EGW for "posting too many words"
post 2: unvotes EGW
post 3: asks me about RVS
post 4: doesn't like EGW RVing him
post 5: wants people to RP more

There's a fine line between going along with the flavor and obfuscating

post 6: seems not to think there's scum, bastard game
post 7: follow on to post 5
post 8: Not on for deadline
post 9: talking to Mak about EGW's RV, activity level, votes EGW
post 10: doesn't like EGW trying to influence him
post 11: still thinking no night elim with ambiguous rules
post 12: fluff
post 13: trying to explain what he says EGW is doing
post 14: points out cult-style games
post 15: fluff

Here's where I did my first read which put him at +1, and in hindsight that may have been generous, but I did say the trend was downward due to the fluff which started popping up later on

post 16: wants to know more about the wam reads post
post 17: reaction to Seven saying EGW wouldn't be elimed
post 18: follow on to post 17
post 19: again not available at EOD
post 20: worried about majority elim even with extension
post 21: wants to ping Glue and vote for him if needed
post 22: votes extension to get Glue to post
post 23: says he can put up reads early D2, describes Rube Goldberg method for generating them

Seriously?!

post 24: no way to shorten process
post 25: fluff
post 26: fluff
post 27: sus of EGW
post 28: fluff
post 29: didn't remember JC is playing, wanted Glue pinged due to votes

Cynical view really doesn't like that

post 30: sympathy for wam's reads list being shaky, promise of reads
post 31: wants Seven to explain posts about EGW
post 32: Seven's read of me weird, doesn't like huery's post
post 33: double post
post 34: reads Madge as town
post 35: fluff
post 36: bit of a reads list with somi, Mak town, Seven and Bessie scum, and some people as insufficient data, votes Seven
post 37: fluff
post 38: wants Bessie elimed
post 39: fluff
post 40: reads me as scummy, but wants more voting
post 41: fluff
post 42: still wants more from Glue
post 43: response to JC about Fred's setup spec
post 44: fluff
post 45: fluff

As he said, he was not on EOD, so missed the flurry.

D2
post 46: agrees with Seven about not waiting for EOD to elim, votes heury
post 47: no progress on reads
post 48: modified method for scum-only list

Here's where I left off D2, with him at a -1

post 49: heury vote based on scummy read
post 50: reaction to Bessie's vote on him
post 51: added tone to post 50
post 52: progress report
post 53: asks about town slip
post 54: has Bessie as top town
post 55: asks JC about change in his read on Seven and him
post 56: dispute with Thea about their solve based on EoD, promise of partial reads
post 57: new reads method working better
post 58: final promise of reads
post 59: reads with Bessie town, somi least scummy, Seven, EGW, heury scummiest, switches vote to EGW.

Hindsight looking very interesting here. He has the two confirmed scum as his top reads, very bad looking (just the kind of thing naive scum might do) This is as far as I can tell the only time he put up this kind of list

post 60: Asks Thea for case on somi
post 61: reaction to Thea's case saying he didn't get pinged as much and Thea should be reading him as scummier due to similar behavior
post 62: pings he got from EGW
post 63: fluff
post 64: unvotes

Context suggests this is when EGW claimed to be the stumper, which blows another hole in his reads

post 65: heury as most popular elim
post 66: negative reaction to JC responding to post 55
post 67: explaining his read to Bessie
post 68: avatar fluff
post 69: avatar fluff
post 70: reaction to answer from mod about alignment changes
post 71: notes previous time Bessie had been interested in him
post 72: description of his process

Interestingly, step 1 sounds familiar, like what I'm doing right now except slot by slot instead of all at once. I just do the collating in my head.

post 73: example of his first step doc

okay then.

post 74: asks Madge about her read of him
post 75: fluff
post 76: does not want to post his current document due to security
post 77: votes heury
post 78: complaint
post 79: heury his scummiest read, might not be on EoD
post 80: likes heury unless no-elim

EoD for D2 starts here
post 81: grumpy with Bessie for asking more about his reads
post 82: corrects it to Madge
post 83: citation for correction in post 82
post 84: sarcastic response to me wanting to elim Fred

Shows where I was on him end of D2

post 85: grumpy with Thea
post 86: conditional vote swap
post 87: retraction of post 86
post 88: reaction to heury's news
post 89: request for votals
post 90: fluff
post 91: wants to elim Seven

couple of the previous posts seemed to be preoccupied with being NKed. Based on what he looked like at the time, that was absolutely not happening

post 92: vote comment
post 93: fluff
post 94: nervous fluff
post 95: nervous fluff

provisional rating end of D2: -1.5

D3
post 96: Asks Seven for her investigations
post 97: welcomes Santy
post 98: Asks Seven for full roleclaim since she only had investigation for N2

Cynical View says this is rolefishing instead of just town looking for sound reasoning for power use

post 99: votes Bessie, with promise to elim JC
post 100: offers to unvote to prevent speedelim

Turned out to not be something we needed to worry about, but the lack of situational awareness seems more of a naive thing than a scummy thing

post 101: asks Seven about JC not being in her solve
post 102: inartful question to Santy
post 103: slight apology

And another tick in the naive player column

post 104: points to crappy reads
post 105: points to crappy voting
post 106: says he's done reads
post 107: repeats post 106
post 108: wants to sub out

Here's the core of the issue I have with scum!Fred. I can in NO WAY see Bessie pressing a scummate hard enough that he thinks about ejecting from the game. Cynical View may mumble about pre-arranged in night chat, but I'm not buying it

post 109: fluff
post 110: method of generating reads main reason for ejecting
post 111: reverses request to sub out
post 112: fluff
post 113: fluff
post 114: role question
post 115: fluff

Took him a bit to get back into game mode, but from here he's in

post 116: response to Bessie saying she's not getting his reads, and declares vendetta
post 117: asks for Bessie's role
post 118: still believed Seven had genuine result
post 119: grumpy with Santy for asking about his reads
post 120: asks for Santy's role

We were in the middle of a mass claim, so not entirely unwarranted here

post 121: style declaration
post 122: people's town read based on slips
post 123: response to Madge, no claim forthcoming
post 124: response to Seven asking for claim, says Bessie should go first (:lol:)
post 125: response to me about Bessie elim
post 126: response to Santy about their question re my post analysis
post 127: wants to troll Madge

Well, who doesn't

post 128: clarification about Thea explaining setup spec re scum chat
post 129: state of game in his opinion, will not be on EoD
post 130: votes extension
post 131: extension vote in post 130 more serious than post 127 would make it seem
post 132: reads of wam's intentions
post 133: chagrin when Thea checks his assertion
post 134: interpreting wam v Bessie, says wam is town
post 135: fluff
post 136: fluff
post 137: outrage at Seven a little bit after her switch to voting Santy
post 138: response to JC about EGW's roleclaim
post 139: fluff response to Mak
post 140: confused by what Mak meant about him
post 141: fluff
post 142: questions about other players
post 143: wants to be on EoD, extension or no
post 144: asks Seven about correction to her post
post 145: asks Madge about her proxy
post 146: fluff
post 147: repeats question from post 145
post 148: acceptable reply from her

EoD D3 rush
post 149: announcement about secret post, request not to hammer
post 150: can't change time of rollout
post 151: timing of post to limit discussion
post 152: explanation for no change in time of rollout
post 153: reality check from Madge
post 154: fluff
post 155: explanation of rollout
post 156: rollout related to previous wagons
post 157: rollout comes early
post 158: blames little brother for faulty rollout

And here we have the alleged "Vengeful Townie" claim. At the time, I figured it explained a lot of his furtiveness and credited him with a +2 rating or so based on it. Now that he's said it's BS, all the negatives it cleared up come crashing back down on him.

post 159: fluff
post 160: explanation of role mechanics
post 161: poke at Seven over his rolespec
post 162: fluff
post 163: fakeout over deadline timing
post 164: response to Santy about whether to use power
post 165: agreement with my assessment of his lifespan
post 166: rollout setup when there was still a Fred-wagon
post 167: alleged vig only happens upon elim
post 168: asking about Cynical View's take

Cynical View has confounded many people at times, myself included

post 169: explanation to Santy about their speculated role
post 170: overestimated in a previous game
post 171: fluff
post 172: references post 99 about his elim order
post 173: wonders about me being roundabout to get Bessie
post 174: wants to use the power to draw a NK

Which never happened, so plan in the circular file for him.

post 175: correction to post
post 176: okay voting Bessie, doesn't want to lose him as town to get her
post 177: grumpy with Seven's interpretation of the plan
post 178: fluff
post 179: unvotes extension (pointless bit here half an hour from EoD)
post 180: pleased with Madge's post
post 181: sarcasm at Seven
post 182: poke at Seven for lying as town
post 183: fluff
post 184: correction to votals about extension
post 185: Reads Seven as town

Directly contradicting his sole reads post 59, with no way to tell how he modified his read

post 186: response to me asking about the read, says he has to say due to wam
post 187: notes Madge's paranoia post
post 188: upset with Seven metronoming
post 189: asking about Thea's response to Madge's post
post 190: scum voting on my wagon
post 191: confused by JC
post 192: poke at Madge
post 193: reaction to Seven's retraction
post 194: twilight cooldown
post 195: indignant at Seven
post 196: response to Seven

D4
post 197: Confusion about NK
post 198: Promise of content and/or solve
post 199: fluff
post 200: trying to boost JC
post 201: solve involves Santy's response to Seven
post 202: computer ate his post, Seven not interested in JC
post 203: cites Thea saying JC is town
post 204: asks JC about previous post by Seven
post 205: looking for a reason for Seven being NKed

Always tricky to speculate on scum's reasoning for NKing people, unless it's blatant like the cop dying. This flurry also seems where Madge got the impression of Fred going "Super Saiyan", or at least the start of it.

post 206: votes Madge
post 207: switches to Santy
post 208: unvotes after having it pointed out Santy was at E-1

Situational awareness problem again

post 209: reiterates unvote
post 210: avoiding hammer for content
post 211: asks me about timing of my vote
post 212: continuing from last post
post 213: continuing from post 211
post 214: editorial choice
post 215: fluff
post 216: fluff
post 217: votes Santy to E-1
post 218: asks about acronym
post 219: reinterprets wam's comment
post 220: approves my hammer of Santy

Fixation on Madge stems from this day, vote came after several analysis posts mostly focusing on JC, which would make sense if he was clearing a POE that had either JC or Madge as scum. Agreeing to switch to Santy and his enthusiasm seems a bit theatrical. Rating around -1.5

D5
post 221: disapproves Thea's vote of JC
post 222: scenarios for Madge's NK
post 223: feels he will be NKed for suspecting Madge
post 224: wants JC to make a 2-2 tie between him and Madge
post 225: response to JC about fast D5
post 226: interprets JC's statement as Thea being scum
post 227: firm on voting Madge, wants JC to follow
post 228: "waiting on moody" (at quarter to 1 am my time)
post 229: unhappy with JC elim
post 230: wants JC to post based on playing to win
post 231: Seven also read Madge as scummy, JC acting town based on meta

Fred wanting JC to go through instead of Madge is interesting in a scum!Fred/town!Madge game because he would think she would look townier to whoever the third person is than JC

post 232: 1 scum left
post 233: expected me to hammer Madge
post 234: firm on Madge
post 235: fluff
post 236: Santy scummy enough to justify switching vote
post 237: response about D6 behavior, Madge slip not AI
post 238: response to Thea about the slip, says she is not power role, could be goon
post 239: thinks Madge will NK him
post 240: response to Madge about his sudden competency
post 241: continuation of post 240
post 242: arguing for more content
post 243: fluff
post 244: still thinks content is good
post 245: wants hammer, still thinks he'll be NKed

Interesting that after twice being not picked for NK, he still has the facade that he will be. Seems like more theatre at this point.

D6
post 246: reaction to Thea being NKed
post 247: asks Madge about NK scenarios
post 248: fluff
post 249: pokes Madge about question in post 247
post 250: wants to know if Madge and I would be cross-voting
post 251: time zone issues
post 252: wants wakeup call
post 253: fluff
post 254: admits to lying about Vengeful Town as a way to draw NK, votes Madge
post 255: plan to win even voting for Fred out the window

So we have the fake claim to allegedly try to draw a NK that didn't work, the sudden switch from naive player to analysis wizard at the start of D4 after he would be the lone scum if that is his alignment, and the pounding of Madge at around the same time. I originally had it as Madge 80-85% scum, that's now about 2/3 and would be even lower except for the bomb in the middle of the case: bessie throwing Fred under the bus. Not just a regular school bus, one of those giant CAT trucks they use in strip mines.

[madge]

yeah it's weird isn't it? I swear bessie has a policy against bussing? she has a policy about just about everything that's FUN lol

that said she also has a policy against self-preservation votes and.... y'know

[moody7277]

I'm just upset he knew to wriggle out of the fake claim at this point lol

There's another point that goes in the column of him switching from naive player to player with sound strategy, which makes his early play look sloppy in order to elicit sympathy.

[moody7277]

Madge

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

post 1: confused about title reference
post 2: RV EGW
post 3: likes Bessie
post 4: doesn't know music
post 5: also likes Seven, scummy read on EGW
post 6: fuming over Thea's response to her v Bessie, somi and me invisible, question about scum daychat (which not being bolded looks rhetorical), reads based on impression of posts, unvotes
post 7: about reads in post 6
post 8: disagreement with somi, doesn't like majority elim rule
post 9: about EOD deadline
post 10: couple of pokes at me and Seven, wants to elim lurkers due to fun

Seems to contradict when she says in post 8 that she didn't have fun choosing between two lurkers, but that may just be the glory that is Madge

post 11: trying to explain the seeming contradiction, comes down on the side of lurker elim

Reasonable, and fits within her "play for fun" paradigm

post 12: reference back to the daychat question, nervous about coordination, wam scummy due to his response to it, votes Glue and extension
post 13: reads with Fred townie, JC, heury scummy, votes JC
post 14: debates somi over lurker elim, says would rather vote for obv scum, would rather have high content at ELO, Glue and Mak also townie, mostly same reads
post 15: scum reading people who vote for her is humor, firm no on Glue elim
post 16: trying to steer elim away from Glue.

EOD rush starts here
post 17: wants counterwagon on me or JC
post 18: still interested in JC elim, response to Seven about setup spec
post 19: confused about AtE
post 20: small attempt to be NK
post 21: found out about AtE, and was right about it
post 22: still interested in me as counterwagon
post 23: votes me, but would vote Glue to prevent no-elim
post 24: about Bessie voting Fred
post 25: switches to heury
post 26: about Glue's votal
post 27: another complaint about majority elim
post 28: informal vote count
post 29: edit
post 30: poke at Seven
post 31: poke at Seven and EGW
post 32: informal vote count
post 33: frustration about vote switching
post 34: possible move to Glue
post 35: not happy about Glue elim
post 36: no JC elim
post 37: switches to Glue
post 38: then switches back to heury

It was this pair of posts that caused my hair pulling reaction. Everything else to here seemed reasonable, and I figured I might have owed Madge an apology (still might, but we'll see down the road)

post 39: asks about hammer
post 40: switches to Glue (may have been after time)
post 41: hopes someone was hammered
post 42: grumbling
post 43: really wants hammer

D2
post 44: willing to proxy Mak
post 45: dismissive of others' opinions on her EOD behavior
post 46: happy to have more than her sheep Mak

Here's where I made my read of her D2 as +0.5

post 47: Apathy due to sheeping Mak, but wants to do due diligence, reads list with Fred and Thea as town, JC and heury scummy, Seven as x-factor

very nice way of turning what would have been a very scummy thesis statement into a strong post

post 48: posting reads as a way to get a read on her
post 49: not on at EoD, wants explanation of somi's misjudgment of 7 v EGW
post 50: update to read of somi based on Thea's explanation, makes him votable
post 51: town read of Fred strong enough to override Mak's proxy, also true of Thea
post 52: doesn't like Thea's solve, stumper def town, might be on at EoD
post 53: no replacement likely for somi
post 54: analysis of voting off somi at that point, ends up in favor
post 55: chagrin at somi being able to be replaced
post 56: limit of keyboard access
post 57: wants somi elim based on wagon

D2 Eod rush starts here
post 58: getting nervous about EoD rush
post 59: votes Seven as a protest
post 60: waiting for Mak's input, no help from other town reads, votes somi
post 61: complaint about EoD
post 62: response to heury's emergency
post 63: analysis of heury's last post
post 64: wants input from Mak
post 65: switches vote to heury
post 66: complaint about EoD
post 67: unsure of hammer
post 68: post-hammer cool down post

That amount of frazzled D1 and D2 is not theater. She was also on a somi vote until Mak suggested heury and she was trying to get an elim. Rating at this point +1

D3
post 69: dismayed heury was town, Seven's result from town, but likely not real, update to reads to include Seven's "result"
post 70: response to JC about her vig speculation
post 71: questions for several people, asks my about my setup spec, asks wam about his solve, Seven not gambiting as scum, reads with Thea and wam townie, Santy, JC, Bessie votable
post 72: defense of Fred's playstyle
post 73: fluff
post 74: response to Seven about her protest vote
post 75: fluff
post 76: votes Bessie, wants the info on Seven it would give, alternative interpretations for claims by Seven and wam, update to reads, no real changes

Thinking about all the angles is good

post 77: difficulty in reading Bessie
post 78: clarification that she did not see where Seven says her result is fake
post 79: wants response from Seven about post 76
post 80: wam as claimed cop likely NK, tells Fred not to claim
post 81: "loves" Seven, just still wants a response
post 82: still looking to sheep Mak
post 83: afk at EoD
post 84: decides she doesn't need to sheep Mak, confused by JC's case against Seven
post 85: lost track of claims
post 86: protest vote of Seven again, unvotes
post 87: possibility of wam as scum cop, upset at Seven due to re-evaluating reads based on Bessie "result"
post 88: response to Santy
post 89: full revision of reads needed, claims list
post 90: wam and Bessie not scummates, update to claims list to include mine
post 91: claims including wam's results
post 92: firm read of wam, Thea, Seven town
post 93: wants input from Mak
post 94: gets to experience EoD again, wants to know Seven's reads, especially Bessie relative to me and Santy
post 95: hypothetical about scum!wam
post 96: response to edge cases about scum!wam's claim
post 97: response to Seven about eliming Santy, okay to elim all 4 in her PoE, mostly interested in not having EoD rush
post 98: response to Seven about wam theory
post 99: availability statement

EoD rush for D3
post 100: wants input from Mak, Bessie wagon based on false premise, scumteam analysis with a conclusion that Bessie's flip is least informative, most in favor of {Santy, JC, me} team
post 101: wam's result silent on Bessie
post 102: main reason for reading me and Santy as scummy is voting habit, reads list with conf town, JC and me scummy, Bessie undetermined
post 103: clarification to Santy of her PoE
post 104: wants me and her to hammer Bessie
post 105: response to Fred's secret rollout, says it's townie
post 106: response to JC that people like trolling her
post 107: cites mafiawiki about Fred's claim
post 108: claims VT
post 109: confused about the plan to let Fred vig Bessie instead of eliming her directly
post 110: response to Seven
post 111: paranoid about what actual vengeful townie Fred would do, wants to vote scummy reads
post 112: happy that Mak agrees with her
post 113: list of 3 votables, not Fred
post 114: semi-serious instructions for veng!Fred
post 115: upset with Seven, Fos on people voting for Seven
post 116: paranoia about Seven/wam team
post 117: upset with Seven's metronoming
post 118: votals request
post 119: fluff
post 120: spec about town investigation roles
post 121: unofficial votals
post 122: comes back to her votables from post 113
post 123: wagon seems to be coming to Bessie
post 124: confused at Seven voting me
post 125: very upset at Seven metronoming
post 126: asks Seven about retracting basis for wagoning Bessie
post 127: hammers Bessie
post 128: misread of who was saying Bessie is town
post 129: tries to find where she saw Seven say Bessie was town

The closest in time and content to this was JC saying Bessie is town. I think Seven always considered Bessie scum after start of D2, the "result" was just cheese to help the pill go down.

post 130: still at Seven about the post

D4
post 131: Fosing people who wanted The Plan, available for analysis
post 132: thinks Fred wouldn't use power responsibly, okay to elim Santy
post 133: explains acronym for Fred

D5
post 134: countervotes JC
post 135: response to JC
post 136: asks about Santy wagon
post 137: her reasoning on Seven's take on Bessie, waiting for Mak
post 138: Mak shouldn't post due to info security
post 139: waiting on me to hammer
post 140: decides she doesn't want me to hammer until re-read
post 141: tries to explain info security to me
post 142: Fred suddenly competent
post 143: wants to avoid rush for EoD
post 144: potential 3person endgame
post 145: tries to explain info security to Fred
post 146: asking about hammering
post 147: availability
post 148: hammers JC
post 149: unhappy with D6

Going to skip the D6 stuff. Looked for any interactions that put her closer or distanced from Bessie or Santy. Thought I might have seen two posts in a row slightly defensive of Santy, but they faded back into the background upon further review. Interactions with Bessie seem more in the girlfriend status ballpark than anything. She has just the right level of flakiness, and those reactions to the end of Days 1 & 2 were not faked. Rating about +1.3

[moody7277]

As an aside, apparently Fred's favorite phrase is "fuck a duck", while Madge is really into crayons.

[madge]

do scum have daychat, or nightchat only?

[madge]

Okay, because you’ve analysed me and Fred, I’m going to look at how each of the scum players has interacted with the other confscum and how they’ve interacted with us.

Here’s part one of ?????, as I have limited time. I have a “big stinker” (is that what Fred said?) to drop a bit later, but I’ll save that for the end (don’t worry, my little brother won’t be the one posting it). And yes, this is Madge going Super Saiyan. There’s no asides about how my day was and I’m even using capital letters and punctuation! You’re welcome.

This post is entitled “Bessie: A retrospective”

I’m going to skip over the generic town/scum lists and purely fluff interactions, especially early days stuff.

Bessie: my goal with her is to work out why she bussed Fred as it seems really weird and I think explaining it is going to be one of the keys to winning the game.

Bessie interacts with Somi to challenge about confirmation posts, it is very low key.

She also calls out Fredd for contenting himself with an NE, among other things - seems really discontent with Fred in general. It definitely seems strange for a D1 scummate situation. From her next post, I get coachy vibes (like she’s trying to help him).

At the end of D1 she votes Heury to join a viable wagon, refuses to vote for Glue but would switch to JC. All three are town.

Note that her first vote D1, and her preferred candidate, was Fred. Very weird to have her ally as her strongest scumread D1, but he wasn’t a viable wagon that day. I wonder if she saw his newbie play as scummy (through her informed lens, she’d know he was scum, so what we interpreted as genuine townie roughness, she saw as actual scummyness?), thought he was new and amateurish and wanted to get credit when he inevitably got voted off? Bessie has integrity and a special honour code she uses to play, and while I have an impression of her being opposed to bussing on principle, I also think she’d refuse to let a scummate get away with scummy play. It’s the only thing that makes sense FMPOV.

D2 she’s right out of the gate with pressure on Fred. This is the famous Bessie tunnel. It’s gotta be wine, right? She’d never tunnel on a scummate? It’s amazing because she’s not interacting with Somi at all, but she’s all Fred Fred Fred Fred. (She also doesn’t meaningfully interact with me or moody for pretty much the entire game). She votes Heury D2.

D3 opens, as we know, with Seven’s “result”. Bessie could have thought it was legitimate. Bessie is having a go at both Fred and me for our various levels of sucking at the game, and having a bit of a debate with Santy about roles/mechanics.

My impression of Bessie’s behaviour D3 is that she’s trying to distance herself from Fredd, the only scummate that wasn’t under scrutiny, as she goes on her way down. Santy/Somi was on thin ice D2 and it feels like she’s using her genuine frustration with Fred’s play to fuel this distancing. I think it’s All Part Of The Plan, so to speak, and perfectly consistent with Bessie’s attitudes around the Proper Way To Play. I think in particular Fred “pre-loading” the claim to 30 minutes before deadline is so scummy that there’s NO WAY Bessie would approve of her scummate doing it, and she reacts accordingly.

D3 EOD bessie votes moody, 2 min to deadline, with a self-preservation vote. She has said that she never self-preservation-votes, and yet she will do it if the situation calls for it.

TBH after going through this the Fred tunnel doesn’t feel that weird.

Next somi/santy.

[moody7277]

@Fred: you going to let the last thing I read about you be that you faked a power claim?

[madge]

Here’s Somi, followed by Santy.


D1:
Somi has a go at me for preferring to vote lurkers off all else being equal, some minor interaction with bessie.

Somi calls me scummy, puts me in the “unreadable” part of his gutfeel list but puts Fred as scummy and Bessie as townie. Moody is in a null area. Kinda funny that he starts out putting townies in the null groups and his scummates as one town and one scum. Perfectly balanced, lol. Votes Fred, but unvotes once the “townslip” is identified.

EOD is voting for Gluelock. Per my post on Bessie, D1’s wagons were all town so there’s no real insight to be gained here.

D2: Somi basically says and does nothing before getting replaced D3.

Santy:

D3: This is interesting. Seven dies N3, and is the only person Santy has played with before. Santy out the gate finding me, Thea, JC scummy (all town) and puts Bessie and Fred as town, both higher than moody. Votes Bessie upon Seven’s result. Santy is having big back and forth discussion with Bessie about Seven’s result. First real readslist has Fred as town, me bessie and moody all as neutral-scum (me scummiest).

Interactions are all kinda all over the place. I struggle to read santy much more than I struggled with Bessie, Bessie I understand whereas Santy is new and confusing.

Santy is interacting with Thea and Seven a LOT.

Gives a wolf pool: Glue/Heury/JC/Moody - all town.

Handles Fred’s outburst weirdly calmly (maybe not weird, maybe this is Santy’s personality? IDK), kinda patiently explaining him how to play.

Then suddenly gets very interested in Moody’s posts, and has been asking JC a lot of questions.

I think Santy just…. Talks to everyone a lot. I’m not feeling like I’m getting much out of this.

Votes Moody and in a later reads post (with moody still at the bottom) says there’s two scum in Madge-JC-Bessie, puts Fred just above this trio.

Fred’s claim is met with exasperation, but it doesn’t feel performative. It almost feels like they’re trying *not* to be performative, like:

Why would you be pleading for your life? You didnt even have a single vote, bessie was about to be voted / hammered when you requested to discuss .
Im super lost rn haha

This feels like they’re trying to be casual. Literally like two posts later they’re saying they don’t think Fred and Bessie are a pair lol.

I also find this one very amusing:

It's PoE:

2. Wam - town (cop)
3. Bessie - ?
6. Madge - town (slip)
7. Seven - town (wam's result)
8. Theallieza - town (wam's result)
9. Santygrass- ?
10. Freddino18 - town (everyone else thinks he had a town slip)
11. moody7277 - town (just because)
12. JC_DADDY25 - ?

Three question marks = 3 scum

WHY did you vote Fred if you have them as town rahhhhhh

Is also v frustrated that Bessie isn’t voting

— N4 —

Santy basically says nothing D4 and seems pretty chill with being voted out TBH. One of her last posts is “moody, why would you try to vote out Fred?”. Doesn’t sus Fred when he votes her.

[madge]

Okay so here’s my big stinker:

I think Fred’s strange behaviour and his change of attitude is related to the Santy/Somi switchover.

D3 is where Santy replaces Somi.

Fred all of a sudden goes super saiyan on D4, which is after Santy has had a chance to coach him overnight.

I asked above if there was daychat or nightchat, but it doesn’t really affect my point:

Fred gets weird at the *end* of D3. If there’s daychat, I could see him and Santy having a nice discussion about it as the Day went along and refining things. With Fred being who he is, I can see him being a less than cooperative scummate for Santy and doing the brash claim thing, but Santy perhaps trying to contain the damage.

If there’s Nightchat, given that the replacement looks like it happened with more than 2 days of Night 2 remaining, Santy would have had a chance to give Fred advice during N2. Perhaps Santy even suggested the claim of Vengeful, but the, uh, creative execution was all Fred.

In any case, N3 is where Santy and Fred got their ducks in a row and actually had a chance to talk at length with a version of Santy who had caught up to the game. This is what resulted in the ‘super saiyan’ sudden change in Fred I observed D4.

In any event, I think the claim and all associated shenanigans is Santy and Fred or just Fred alone. I don’t think Bessie would be an enthusiastic participant in this kind of thing (and I can just imagine Fred trying to get something off the ground in scumchat with no-nonsense Bessie and life-gets-in-the-way Somi, lol), but Santy seems like a much wilder character who would be more supportive of the claim.

Then it all makes sense: Santy would tell him that under no circumstances can he be in a F3 with that claim, or he’d get voted off to test his power, which is why he retracted it immediately.

So yeah, that’s my “big stinker”: I think the change in Fred’s behaviour corresponds entirely to his change in scummates.

If I had more time I’d do some NK analysis, and I might end up with more time before deadline though I doubt it.

[AdumbroDeus]

do scum have daychat, or nightchat only?

no comment. I consider it setup balance information, you folks will have to figure it out.

[AdumbroDeus]

Vote count 6.2
6. Madge - 1: Freddino18
10. Freddino18 - 1: Madge
11. moody7277 - 0:

Not voting: Moody7277

With 3 remaining it takes 2 to eliminate.

Day 6 ends on Friday October 4th at 12 am EST

[Freddino18]

@Fred: you going to let the last thing I read about you be that you faked a power claim?

Yes. Vote and get it over with. You get no more content from me. (Side note, watching Madge splutter here is hilarious. Real "pictures of Spider-Man" vibes.)

[moody7277]

Still have Mak's contribution I'm waiting on/

[madge]

haha omfg i love this i spend like 2-3 hours on my tuesday night ankle deep in the thread and fred is like "no u"

weren't you the one telling JC to make some noise yesterday lol

[Freddino18]

weren't you the one telling JC to make some noise yesterday lol

Yeah, it was against his win condition not to.

[madge]

and i suppose your win condition is "say you lied about your claim then drop the mic" lol

[Freddino18]

Well, you'll never know. Wam's result on me got blocked.

[madge]

.... how do you know wam targeted you?