Are we human or are we dancer mafia (game over, Dancers win!)

[Wam]

My investigation failed so there's a roleblocker out there

[madge]

ha ha ha what the fuckkk happened, triple FOS everyone who was going to vote Fred off instead of bessie, VINDICATION (captain holt vindication dot gif).

also I realised why I thought Seven was saying bessie was town - JC said bessie was town and I for some reason thought that was Seven lol.

just popping in to say hi, tomorrow's a public holiday (King's Birthday) so I might make some time this time tomorrow to go back through the EoD an work out who is on the scum train

[Makhaira]

yeah imo JC is the frontrunner but I basically want to re-read D3 completely before I make any other endorsements

good shit to the people who clutched it out at deadline and locked in the bessie elim. great flip town is suuuuuper back in the game rn

super glad they flipped seven because I had some paranoid af doomer solves that involved seven turbo bussing bessie but Im glad we're not in those worlds

friday deadline is manageable so I can def make time thurs night to be around at deadline but yeah if yall wanna just flip JC and be on with it Im not gonna be upset, scum NKs are kinda forced at this point

[JC_DADDY25]

Then it has to be me, Moody, and Bessie. Well now I just feel silly.

So, me tomorrow then?

This was JC conceding, correct?

JC, just to clarify, this is depression/impostor syndrome making you feel like everyone is against you, right? The rabbit says you're good, but I do want an explanation.

Seriously didn't think Bessie was scum, figured she'd be elimmed, Wam would be NKed, I'd be elimmed today, and scum would win.

My comment about me, bessie, and moody was sarcasm, but hey that's the way the cookie crumbles.

[JC_DADDY25]

My investigation failed so there's a roleblocker out there

Who did you investigate?

[Wam]

My investigation failed so there's a roleblocker out there

Who did you investigate?

Not going to say

[moody7277]

My investigation failed so there's a roleblocker out there

Well, that's why they could afford to kill Seven, no fear of the clear.

[quote="Madge"[ha ha ha what the fuckkk happened, triple FOS everyone who was going to vote Fred off instead of bessie, VINDICATION (captain holt vindication dot gif).[/quote]

For the record, I was hoping that Fred would take out Bessie with his ability if we were to have elimmed him. Bessie was always my concern, I just wanted Fred to be useful before scum *Rhodey choking baby Thanos gestures from Endgame*. Plus, I'd been wanting to get rid of him since mid-D1, so consistency.

[moody7277]

And 6 in the morning strikes again with that quote tag :eyeroll:

[Freddino18]

WELL FUCK A DUCK

Lost my list of quotes again due to [IRL reasons that look really bad for the flavor of this game (someone recommended me a song lol)]

Anyway, what I remember from last night is that Seven was NOT focused on JC. Going back through for my list of receipts, last time it took about an hour to get to Page 63.

Preliminary theory is that either Scum is spiteful, and killed Sev for starting the train, or that Seven had a scum read that was unique and correct.

Rabbit time. FOS anyone trying to get a quick elim on JC, and anyone that votes me between now and my list of evidence.

[Theallieza]

It looks like it is going to be bessie/JC/Santy.

Wam/Madge/Fred are all locktown.
There's an outside chance it's moody but I think moody would not have NKed Seven here. Moody has been trending townier anyway.
JC/Santy are all that's left.

[Theallieza]

My investigation failed so there's a roleblocker out there

Not overly surprised by this. Slightly weaker cop + slightly weaker doc + other PR vs. roleblocker feels reasonable balance-wise to me.

[moody7277]

It looks like it is going to be bessie/JC/Santy.

Wam/Madge/Fred are all locktown.
There's an outside chance it's moody but I think moody would not have NKed Seven here. Moody has been trending townier anyway.
JC/Santy are all that's left.

Fully on board with this. Of course I have the extra data that I know I'm town, but I figured with one mis-elim to give you might have wanted to clear me off your PoE. Just as soon rather wrap it up.

[Santygrass]

Gm thread

[Santygrass]

This was JC conceding, correct?

JC, just to clarify, this is depression/impostor syndrome making you feel like everyone is against you, right? The rabbit says you're good, but I do want an explanation.

Seriously didn't think Bessie was scum, figured she'd be elimmed, Wam would be NKed, I'd be elimmed today, and scum would win.

My comment about me, bessie, and moody was sarcasm, but hey that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I still am waiting for explanations on *why* did you have those reads. And were pushing Seven+me aka 2 town.

Do you have new reads?

[Santygrass]

My investigation failed so there's a roleblocker out there

Well, that's why they could afford to kill Seven, no fear of the clear.

[quote="Madge"[ha ha ha what the fuckkk happened, triple FOS everyone who was going to vote Fred off instead of bessie, VINDICATION (captain holt vindication dot gif).

For the record, I was hoping that Fred would take out Bessie with his ability if we were to have elimmed him. Bessie was always my concern, I just wanted Fred to be useful before scum *Rhodey choking baby Thanos gestures from Endgame*. Plus, I'd been wanting to get rid of him since mid-D1, so consistency.
[/quote]

Walk me through here.
You thought Fred was town, and bessie was town. And you thought yeeting fred so that he could kill bessie was best course of action? Rather than just killing bessie directly with the elim?

[Santygrass]

* Puts Wam tinfoils in the trash and puts a sign to not take out until fx *

[Santygrass]

It looks like it is going to be bessie/JC/Santy.

Wam/Madge/Fred are all locktown.
There's an outside chance it's moody but I think moody would not have NKed Seven here. Moody has been trending townier anyway.
JC/Santy are all that's left.

Can you walk me through Madge/Moody ? Wam and Fred I agree should be locktown (moreso Fred rather than Wam)

[Freddino18]

Quick mostly-distracted thoughts:

I feel like JC is probably Town here. His play just feels so disconnected from everyone else it's really hard for me to believe he is actually paired with someone.

Santy is kind of a toss-up for me. I really like their content D3 and they come across as very authentic. OTOH, I am reasonably certain that they are a far better player than I am and I think there's a decent chance they could snow me easily. I still find Somi's play to be quite scummy. Though if Seven is Town I am somewhat less inclined to believe in scum!somi.

Which leaves the scum team as moody, bessie, and I guess Madge? I have higher confidence in Fred's townslip than Madge's and bessie is very unlikely to push Fred the way that she has as a teammate.

My investigation keeps coming back to here. Someone help me dig? Thea, what's with the soft 180 on Madge?

[Freddino18]

Sorry I’m typing in bed and didn’t flesh that thought out fully.

Santy and Moody are mafia in both worlds (Santy, Moody, JC) or (Santy, Moody, bessie). So we need to eliminate the odd one out (JC or bessie) to determine which is the correct worldview.

If its going to be between Bessie and I, go ahead and take me out. I'm pretty sure we're both town and she's a better player than me, so she'd have a better chance of proving a solve than I would.

For what it's worth, my role PM also says I'm VT since we're kind of mass claiming.

I disagree with this assessment. You have different strengths and weaknesses. Bessie is stronger early and mid game, you are stronger in end game. Mak disparages you for your vig shots in PYP, but my dude, we were playing against Swiss, Fonti, and Sabrar—one of the strongest scum teams possible. I've mentioned a couple of times now how you brought home the town victory in final 3 in the first game we played together. Bessie is A+ class player bordering S class, but her weakness lies in situations like that. She has difficulty reevaluating, so if scum plays in a manner that is consistent with her predefined view of how town should play, they will slip past. In the aforementioned F3, on the other hand, you were able to suss out the scummer that was highly town read up to that point.

In terms of proving a solve, as you put it, you come out ahead. Bessie doesn't make cases or theorize. You made an argument here yesterday that I found to be well thought out. The premise (that Seven is mafia) happened to be wrong, but the logic stemming from that premise was reasonable.

Can you answer the following three questions?

1) Do you believe Wam is town based on his claim or otherwise?
2) Do you believe his results are legitimate / non-manipulated?
3) Do you agree with the town slips from Madge and Fred? If not, which steps in the reasoning do you think either of them falls apart?

Currently, I think you have the information necessary to solve much of the game. The advantage you have is that you know you are town, whereas the rest of us would have to flip you in order to know your alignment. If your conclusion is the same as mine for the above three questions, you're closer to the solve than any of us.

JC, please push this angle. Feel free to ignore 1 and 2, as I believe you already answered them adequately earlier in the thread.

[Freddino18]

List of possible reasons for Sev's death:

tinfoil is bessie/wam/madge

Thank God Madge came in clutch I dont know if I was going to switch my vote on time lol

scummy pop in

frfr if bessie is wolf always go Santy toMorrow. also reread somi's posts they were v wolfy

Most recent Big Take

FOR FUCKS SAKE SEVEN WHO ARE YOU VOTINGFOR

I was going MOODY BUT THEA VOTED BESSIE

Points at Moody, not unique

Fred's "town slip" is now void.

Technically, I am not cleared; putting this in.

Vote: Santy

I'm sorry Santy, but I can't seem to get down to a team where you're not in it :/

*Bonk*

Bad seven. You are even apoligizing wtf you know Im not a wolf here and are just scared of the possibility of me fooling you, I called you out on this where you are just worlbuilding and fitting the pieces as if I were a wolf but arent pointing to why you wolfread me or sus me because you cant find anything (or if you did, talk aboit ir so we can discuss it. Otherwise its super dismissive and unfair to me tbh)

I did actually review somi's post and could write an essay on his wolfiness.

Big stinko here

I think scum has 1-2 PRs. I do not think they are result-manipulating roles. I have an idea of what one might be, but it's best left unsaid at the moment.

This was on my original list, but after Wam's claim of getting blocked, it is slightly less relevant.

Madge - town

I think Madge's play today regarding the guilty result on bessie is town-indicative. I am considering two scenarios, scum!Madge with town!bessie and scum!Madge with scum!bessie. In town!bessie scenario, I don't think it is likely for Madge to have come up with thoughts like these:

@everyone: did anyone receive some sort of night action result on N1?

Post truncated here by Fred, link intact.

Looking through the posts, I can't actually discount a scum!Madge/scum!bessie scenario. Scum!Madge would know that it was possible that I did have a genuine result on bessie and thus would be liable to have the speculations about Amnesia/JoAt/Tracker as she had. That being said, I think her speculation surrounding Wam's alignment and motivations likely stem from a town mindset. Her progression through her thoughts on Wam's claim are written in a way as if coming from a genuine stream of consciousness. This also resonates as genuine:

but I CAN'T

Had to cut a lot out of this, but Seven seemed to be the only one who thought we may have miscleared Madge.

Currently, I am voting Santy as I believe he has the highest chance to be mafia. I'll have a final post by the end of tonight with my thoughts laid out since I won't be here tomorrow.

Vote: Santy

I'm sorry Santy, but I can't seem to get down to a team where you're not in it :/

More pointed at Santy.

sussed*

Madge Town Slip

for a setup, with 13 players i'd imagine we have a third party. given it's a mountainous game (is that the right term?), i'd expect 2-3 scum, but i am no expert scum balancer.

No, but thank you. I htought it was the opposite of role madness, where there's only a couple of power roles. (I could have looked that up too I guess but I didn't because as somi said you're all luccky to be playing with me

@Seven: This bit.

Where did you get the information that the game is low PR?

I'm sure you'll figure it out, everyone else has apparently lol

From the perspective of Madge in the first quote:

There are two types of games: Normal Games (which Madge referred to as Mountainous) and Role Madness games. In the former, there are a majority of vanilla players and a few PRs. In the latter, every player has a PR.

Because Madge is not a PR, she knew we weren't in Role Madness and, therefore, in a Normal Game. I initially didn't see this as really telling as Thea did because I didn't initially understand the dichotomous perspective. In my mind, games were a gradient between Role Madness (All PRs) and Mountainous (No PRs) with any number of PRs in between.

I do think it is possible Madge knew we were in a Normal Game based on there being goons on the mafia team. However, I think it's not as likely as her simply being town due to the way she has spoken about it.

With Bessie flipping as a goon, this last bit is more relevant.

Bessie/Santy/Moody is the scum team.

More blazing takes from early d3

Assume Somi scum. bessie's vote here was opportunistic (it's forced):

Vote: Heury

As was this:

As of now, heury is the only wagon I'm happy with.

Both were attempting to save somi. Bessie put heury at 4. Moody stated he wouldn't switch, keeping the wagon stable. They likely anticipated I would switch to her, my previously stated preferred elimination. Madge would be deciding vote who was following Mak who likely would have come on end of day supporting heury elim based on his prior appearance patterns and reads.

Points to Santy / Bessie / Madge team.

Alright, the rabbit wants blood. My read, based on all of Sev's outlandish claims is that Madge and/or Santi are scum. If I am wrong, then scum is just petty.

[moody7277]

Walk me through here.
You thought Fred was town, and bessie was town. And you thought yeeting fred so that he could kill bessie was best course of action? Rather than just killing bessie directly with the elim?

No, unless you meant I thought bessie was scum. I believe Fred's claim about his power, and figured he would be dead either way and we should get some use of his ability. If it's your assertion that we should have let scum choose to take him out instead of freeing them to pick someone else, then you might have a point.

[Freddino18]

Vote: Madge

[JC_DADDY25]

JC, just to clarify, this is depression/impostor syndrome making you feel like everyone is against you, right? The rabbit says you're good, but I do want an explanation.

Seriously didn't think Bessie was scum, figured she'd be elimmed, Wam would be NKed, I'd be elimmed today, and scum would win.

My comment about me, bessie, and moody was sarcasm, but hey that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I still am waiting for explanations on *why* did you have those reads. And were pushing Seven+me aka 2 town.

Do you have new reads?

It's the way I felt from the flow of the game and what made the most sense, apparently I was wrong.

At this point, all I know is that I'm town. I'll have to reread but I'm going to watch the Texans game, then spend some time with my grandkids when they get here, so probably went start until later tonight.

[Wam]

Fred I like your analysis but I have been thinking about it and I think only santy, Thea or me kills seven overnight.

I'm town I ahve a clear on Thea so must be santy.

Reasons:

1) seven only player with experience playing with santy
2) Ignoring the cop and using the RBer is an experienced scum player which takes out JC and Fred
3) Been scum reading somi sant as Fred has neatly summarised
4) Think madfe would have gone Thea over seven if they were shooting a townie with result

vote santy

[moody7277]

I guess more people want Santy to be the play today than JC. To me they're equally good elims, so I can go ahead and put a vote down for them Monday morning before I head to work. Bonus for Madge, I really don't think we need to run it all the way to deadline toDay.