Are we human or are we dancer mafia (game over, Dancers win!)

[Freddino18]

not communicating effectively?

[bessie]

Daily bark!

#1 and #2 are logical reasons to infer that I am/was gambiting, but are not reasons that support the idea that I am scum. #3 is not logical and contradicts your statement that I was looking for reactions. Which is it: am I trying to quickly eliminate you, or am I looking for reactions?

Your premise is incorrect. #1 and #2 are reasons I think you are non-town, i.e., scum.
#3 is a logical assessment that is supported from #1 and #2.
Both, You are looking for reactions from the players to gage if you an push a quick elimination of me.

Additionally, if you believed I was looking for reactions, as you stated, it would not be sensible for you to vote me. Additionally, you did not yourself consider that my result could have been due to tampering, and instead voted me immediately. In my experience, this sort of reaction tends to come from caught scum. Townies tend to be more contemplative about what is going on and come to the conclusion that the result was tampered with.

I don’t understand why you believe it is not sensible to vote for a scum read.
I did consider that you may have a real but manipulated result, but concluded it is still likely you are scum. Refer to #1-3 above.
The general assessment that “townies tend to act this way, and scum tends to act this way” holds no credence with me. Individuals may act in ways that do not fit your general categories.

@Madge @Wam I don't have anything further I wish to claim (yes, I'm aware this just makes it further look like I'm gambiting). But Wam, you of all people know that I'm good.

Noting this soft claim.

What is the soft claim?

That you and Wam have had some kind of out-of-thread communication. Like, you have a power that somehow revealed yourself as town to Wam, and you are reminding him of this. Or Wam has an investigative result, and you have a power that lets you know Wam investigated you, of which you are now informing Wam. Or you’re masons. Or some other power.

My reads are also crap lol. If Bessie flips scum, I'm going after JC next.

Vote: Bessie

Noted.

Why did you note this?

Fred voted for me. I am acknowledging I have seen his vote. And to remind myself later that this vote was made without giving reasons. I infer that the reason is your claimed night result.
This quote goes along with the following Fred quote, in which Fred faked concern and offered to unvote, but didn’t. Why did you not comment on that?

You’re good to go. I wrote it in my diary instead.

Noting for later. Did Seven claim another power here?

It took me a while to understand what you were getting at. We once had a role that revealed diary notes after they died. No, that's not what I meant. Why would you point this out? -1 for role fishing.

How am I role fishing? You inferred you had a diary power. I am pointing out that you have claimed or soft-claimed 2.5 powers.

This is disingenuous: you voted Heury D1 to secure an elimination. Fred was your preferred, and after Thea voted Heury, you told her you would switch to moody or wam to secure an elim, so it's not like you were hard pushing heury. D2, you weren't pressuring heury at any point until crunch time. You only asked him a few soft questions with no indication that you were FoSing him.

Heury was on my votable list on D1. Heury’s content did not improve on D2. I gave reasons for my vote when I voted for Heury.
I haven’t explicitly FoS’d anyone in this game. So I guess by your logic, I shouldn’t have voted?

Interestingly, I also came across this while looking through your ISO:

Where did Mak go? I was hoping he would post.

Which supports my speculation here that you were anticipating Mak returning at the end of the day.

Yes, I was hoping Mak would post. He’s confirmed town and his opinion carries weight.

Right, the first post came right after you voted. Your vote put the wagons at 4-3 heury. You remained on heury after what I believed to be an obvtown post. There is no conflict about your vote in the post you linked in terms of heury's alignment, only in terms of honor (eliminating someone who was having an irl thing).

Yes, I did have a conflict of honor, not of my scum read.

If Heury flips town, Somi + Seven are scum.

Noting.

Why are you noting this here? It's out of order based on your sequential post-quoting playstyle. Answer: Agenda. -1

I found that post when I reviewed the end-of-day voting. Are you worried about George’s final read of you?

@bessie

Without going into details.im happy the only way my result on Seven is wrong is if he's a godfather specifically aimed at my role.

Are you at all concerned that your claimed result “Seven is vanilla town” contradicts Seven’s direct and soft claims?

Is Godfather or roles that could mess with an investigative result common here or not?

Since I saw mentioned that game was non bastard I wasnt taking them into account but now questioning myself since godfather was mentioned as a possibility wowee

Godfather would not be considered bastard on xkcd.
AdumbroDeus is not originally from xkcd, his home site is Smashboards. If I remember correctly, Godfather (and other roles that give fake investigative results) are considered not-normal, I’m not sure if the roles are considered bastard. Seven is from Smashboards and could probably clarify.

Actually, I'd consider it essential that we get a full claim from everyone today.

I don’t support mass claims.


I’m too tired to argue with Seven as to why I’m not an A+ mafia player and I’ve already spent an hour and a half on this post. But thank you Seven I know that remark was sincere.

While I'm on the topic, you all should know that Santy is an S-Class player. He mentioned that we were in champs final together—there's a reason for it.

Wow congrats Santy! Heury, Theallieza, and Seven have represented xkcd at Champs! We tried to get Madge to go last year but she was too busy.


Hi Fred! Do you have any updated reads?

I think it would be useful to see the remaining players claim: Moody, bessie, madge, Fred.

Might as well cross bessie off that list, cause she ain't doing it.

the man knows me well.jpg (56.74 KiB) Viewed 193 times

More later Hoku is getting under my desk and pushing my chair away from my computer. I think he is trying to tell me it's dinner time.

[Seven]

Godfather's aren't considered bastard (here or elsewhere). A VT godfather would be bastardy, however.

[Seven]

How am I role fishing? You inferred you had a diary power. I am pointing out that you have claimed or soft-claimed 2.5 powers.

I have claimed one thing only. Any other allusions are illusions of your own making. My diary = OOG (Out of Game @Fred) commentary. My statement to Wam was because I picked up yesterday that he had an inno on me after saying he was confident I was town with the only reason being "gut."

[Freddino18]

This quote goes along with the following Fred quote, in which Fred faked concern and offered to unvote, but didn’t.

Hi Fred! Do you have any updated reads?

1. Did not see the answer, was on for a few minutes, missed the post that said yes, and when I came back people were already calling me out for lying. Much like my mom telling me to do laundry, now that I'm in trouble, I ain't doin that shit.

2. Yes, not telling you though. I do have a game plan though, which hinges on your flip. If Seven was lying, we get a scum, if not, I start in on my next scum read.

To note: At this point, Bessie is pushing for my reads list so hard that I will be voting for her, regardless of EOD needs, until one of us is dead. I am officially Pissed Off

[Freddino18]

Hey @Bessie what's your role?

[madge]

This is stream of consciousness as I read. I'm run off my feet with this temporary job change so I don't have time to do as much as I normally would, v sorry.

My workload has gotten a lot more intense, and will be so for another two and a half weeks.

vote bessie

Sorry, is there a reason we're not voting for bessie? Seven has never claimed to be anything other than VT, Wam says he's VT, VT wouldn't lie (Seven would, but I digress), voting for bessie will get us info about Seven and whatever source of info he has, go some tiny way to confirming wam, etc. If bessie flips town then we have a huge mess to untangle but that mess seems to involve two people who lied (Seven, Wam) and so seems on net a good thing? Like seriously, I hope on the pages I haven't read yet bessie is getting yeeted because at this point I don't see how we can choose someone else.

(also I wrote the above before LG accused me of not itneracting with Bessie this game, which I have but whatever)

Like yes I said JC was scummy due to activity levels or w/e but my confidence in that is not near my confidenc ein a guilty verdict!!!!

I see these claims as completely consistent:
- Unnamed player has an ability to send results to other players, sends cop result on Bessie to Seven
- Seven claims guilty result, as she should
- Wam sees Seven is VT, as he should, and claims it, as he should

I think in xkcdia godfather is non-bastard but naive miller is? That would be my vibe. So if you're a miller you'll know it. But Seven could be scum and "godfather" to cop as VT.

@Seven: Don't weasel unless it's to actually clarify beyondf what my questions anticipate. Is this result you have on bessie a) an actual bona fide in-game investigation result of some sort, or b) is it your way of claiming your Very Accurate Read? If a), is the investigation unambiguous (e.g. 'bessie is scum' or 'bessie and heury are incompatible alignments') or is it ambiguous (e.g. 'bessie was the only one who visited EGW last night', given scum could have a ninja?)

I don't want to claim yet, but I will if THE PEOPLE demand it. I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting VT Seven to explicitly came how he came across a "result" that bessie was scummy.

@Fred: while I agree that bessie is the best vote candidate right now, I would not want you to be making votes based on emotional shit, make a quick angry vote like I did for Seven yesterday and then vote your real scumread. that said my case is that Seven's result.

Speculation: perhaps there's a cop who sends results (there was one in B99), and Seven received a result.

Speculation: wam could be scum rolecop (is it bad that I love the little image in my head of scum!wam freaking out about a copped vanilla townie has a guilty result)

Readslist - now in order!
Townie:
Thea(behaviour, result)
Wam(claim)
Fred (vibes)

Neutral:
Seven (claim,result)
Moody* (other people's opinions)

Voteable:
Somi/Santy* (vibes, other people's opinions),
JC (vibes),
Bessie (result)

In order
(indicates where my read comes from)
*denotes people who were alts to a town wagon

I think Thea is solid town: scum!wam defending scum!bessie wouldn't dare put the last member of the scum team (there's no way they have 4 right?) as another town read.

Claims:
Seven - scum result on bessie
Wam - VT cop. VT result on Seven, Thea

Non-Vibes, Facts, Extra Firm Reads:
Mak - conftown, will sheep

Conditional reads: If Santy flips scum then Thea is almost certainly town (because if Thea was Santy's scummate he wouldn't try to specifically dig up this point), and Seven is a sliver more likely to be scum.

[Santygrass]

@Madge , the bessie check that Seven claimed is completely false and fake.

What is your read on bassie ignoring that? It seems like you are addressing bessie in a weird way, making a read on them that just relies on other people and doesnt tackle bessie at all lol

[Santygrass]

Like, there is no concistency in an 'unnamed player' sending a result only on n2 , but not n1. And the setup having two investigatives roles is just nuts, and like basic design level bad in a setup this small (only counterpoint to this, would be that mafia has a way to counter investigatives, so the checks lose weight regardless)

[Freddino18]

@Madge , the bessie check that Seven claimed is completely false and fake.

Based on what? Also, to Madge, it was due to the result, now I'm refusing to change for 3 reasons: 1: The result. 2: Cleaning-the-room-already stubbornness. 3: Bessie being a butt.

[Santygrass]

This quote goes along with the following Fred quote, in which Fred faked concern and offered to unvote, but didn’t.

Hi Fred! Do you have any updated reads?

1. Did not see the answer, was on for a few minutes, missed the post that said yes, and when I came back people were already calling me out for lying. Much like my mom telling me to do laundry, now that I'm in trouble, I ain't doin that shit.

2. Yes, not telling you though. I do have a game plan though, which hinges on your flip. If Seven was lying, we get a scum, if not, I start in on my next scum read.

To note: At this point, Bessie is pushing for my reads list so hard that I will be voting for her, regardless of EOD needs, until one of us is dead. I am officially Pissed Off

Asking for you to share reads is positive for town , if you wanna throw a tantrum be my guest but thats not it.

Read my post above, as in Seven is a checked Vanilla Town lying about having a check.

Other than the check and you being annoyed at someone for wanting to know your view? Why do you sus bessie?

[Freddino18]

Asking for you to share reads is positive for town

Asking for an essay is negative for my mental health and your odds of not being voted. I appreciate you're trying to make me seem like scum, but this is me doing it for you, so please use this as your evidence and kindly stop asking.

[Santygrass]

@Madge , the bessie check that Seven claimed is completely false and fake.

Based on what? Also, to Madge, it was due to the result, now I'm refusing to change for 3 reasons: 1: The result. 2: Cleaning-the-room-already stubbornness. 3: Bessie being a butt.

Wam claimed cop already. Seven is Vanilla town that has no way to have a guilty result. Simple as.

*Sips juice*

If you are going to vote someone just because of some emotional thing, then you should reassess because if bessie is town, you are more likely than not screwing all of us.

If you want to fix past mistakes in reads from this game, acting this way is not it. We still have like, 4 more days so take a breather and chill. What bessie did to you is like, super mild imo. You dont want to see how obnoxious I can be when I want to pressure someone.

At the end of the day even if someone is pressuring or not to have answers, is still a game and the people is playing to try to solve and win, there are no personal feelings / attacks behind it (or there shouldn't be. Right now you are tiptoeing that with how you are replying to bessie)

[Freddino18]

What's your role?

[Santygrass]

Asking for you to share reads is positive for town

Asking for an essay is negative for my mental health and your odds of not being voted. I appreciate you're trying to make me seem like scum, but this is me doing it for you, so please use this as your evidence and kindly stop asking.

Its not an essay though. Its your thoughts, they can be as vague as you want.

But if you are town, if you dont share where your head is at, how are other towns supposed to find you?

I do think you are town, but that doesnt mean that I am 100% sure you are town and will potentially slack off and fool me. If you are town then you are another set of eyes solving with me that I want to take advantage of. Dayphase is long, so you are not pressured to do it asap or anything like that, but sharing how you are looking at stuff / what you think is super valuable. And if you are town there is no wrong read / thought to share on thread th

[Santygrass]

What's your role?

VT

[Santygrass]

not communicating effectively?

(Also you're the only one that replied to my question)
But yeah, p much this would an answer . I dont usually assume scum is missplayong while making a worldview though, since I think is much more likely that scum always decides to either bus, or go for a save on a partner.

Without a red flip, the votecounts reads have less weight, but I will try to put my thoughts in JC in specific which feels the most wolf-shaped looking at it fmpov.
Wanted to let the VC sink in on thread and put my thoughts later, but forgot about it and now its too late for me haha

[Santygrass]

Also, sorry if I come off as harsh when speaking now Fred. Please dont take it as an attack and moreso me trying to lend you a hand and giving you some ice to cool off .
There shouldnt be pressure or attacks, just fun and solving.

Unless you are a wolf. Then yes be scared *gives killer glare*

[madge]

@Madge , the bessie check that Seven claimed is completely false and fake.

What is your read on bassie ignoring that? It seems like you are addressing bessie in a weird way, making a read on them that just relies on other people and doesnt tackle bessie at all lol

where did seven say it was fake? i never said it was fake

my read of bessie is that she's impossible to read. i forget who said it upthread but the person who said "bessie as town is the towniest town that ever towned. bessie at scum is just town".

[madge]

EBWOP i never said it was fake???? I am so scattered lol, i meant to say "i never saw her say it was fake" - did i miss something because my analysis and vote is based on seven being at least honest about havingt some sort of non-reads-based reason to find bessie scum

[Freddino18]

The only wrong way to play Mafia is to deliberately sabotage your own faction. Let me play how I play.

[Santygrass]

EBWOP i never said it was fake???? I am so scattered lol, i meant to say "i never saw her say it was fake" - did i miss something because my analysis and vote is based on seven being at least honest about havingt some sort of non-reads-based reason to find bessie scum

Can go and look for it, but Seven said they caught Wam softing cop with a check on them. + No one claiming a role that is able to verify sending information to Seven.
Seven own role is never able to get info on their own, so it should be another people role . And I think the only ones who hasnt claimed VT are wam (cop) and Bessie. (Correct me if im wrong)
So unless you think bessie sended them a guilty result on themselves to seven...

Like, even if that role exists and is amongst town, then we have a confirmed guilty if they claim , and two investigatives (wam + them). No way in hell an investigative just doesnt claim here to assure the bessie yeet and possibly counterclaim wam here

But its pretty likely / almost obvious to me that isnt the case because Seven was just lying with the guilty result from the start. If it were real, they would've never outed SoD ~

[Santygrass]

Now I go to sleep frfr. Fred, you're able to play however you like, Im stating what would help me and I assume also help rest of town . But your point is fair and most of all I want you to consider what I said about cooling off and taking this as a game and stuff.

Gn thread

[Seven]

Night!

[Freddino18]

EBWOP i never said it was fake???? I am so scattered lol, i meant to say "i never saw her say it was fake" - did i miss something because my analysis and vote is based on seven being at least honest about havingt some sort of non-reads-based reason to find bessie scum

Can go and look for it, but Seven said they caught Wam softing cop with a check on them. + No one claiming a role that is able to verify sending information to Seven.
Seven own role is never able to get info on their own, so it should be another people role . And I think the only ones who hasnt claimed VT are wam (cop) and Bessie. (Correct me if im wrong)
So unless you think bessie sended them a guilty result on themselves to seven...

Like, even if that role exists and is amongst town, then we have a confirmed guilty if they claim , and two investigatives (wam + them). No way in hell an investigative just doesnt claim here to assure the bessie yeet and possibly counterclaim wam here

But its pretty likely / almost obvious to me that isnt the case because Seven was just lying with the guilty result from the start. If it were real, they would've never outed SoD ~

I have not claimed, people are calling me VT due to my D1 slips