Are we human or are we dancer mafia (game over, Dancers win!)

[madge]

Yes but you were laughing when I was freaking out, and I was upset (and I would not have made that joke vote if I thought there was any way scum could get a quickhammer or whatever)

So was your phone really out of battery the other Day? Like, were you actually AFK for EOD? I should probably just wait to ask you that question until after the game tbh as I'm curious from a completely-serious point of view rather than a could-potentially-be-lying POV so maybe hold off on answering

[Seven]

I'll answer anyway. Yes, I was at a county fair on like 5% battery and hours away from home/a charger and was getting very little signal. I refreshed a couple of times but decided it wasn't worth the hassle.

[madge]

I figured that was a gambit too lol

[Wam]

@bessie

Without going into details.im happy the only way my result on Seven is wrong is if he's a godfather specifically aimed at my role.

[moody7277]

@moody: how do we know we're one miselim away from ELO? ARe we informed of ELO? I think the general rule is you allow town 2-3 miselims? and with that the case, we're on our last one?

That's based on the assumption pretty much everyone is making that we have three scum, in which case we are at 6-3, and a miselim would put us at 4-3 D4.

@Seven: Thanks for the refresher. I think I can actually see your point on Madge well enough to accept that she is more likely than not town. Fred I think was just confused about the rules (as you said, he's a newer player), and take that as NAI.

[Wam]

Interestingly I think the fred 9ne is stronger. I could easily see madge putting something similar as a mafia goon.

But working through it.

Town
Wam
Seven
Thea

Meta town read - bessie

Town slip madge, Fred

Means scum team is Moody, JC, santy.

vote JC

[Santygrass]

Is Godfather or roles that could mess with an investigative result common here or not?

Since I saw mentioned that game was non bastard I wasnt taking them into account but now questioning myself since godfather was mentioned as a possibility wowee

[Santygrass]

sussed*

Madge Town Slip

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

for a setup, with 13 players i'd imagine we have a third party. given it's a mountainous game (is that the right term?), i'd expect 2-3 scum, but i am no expert scum balancer.

No, but thank you. I htought it was the opposite of role madness, where there's only a couple of power roles. (I could have looked that up too I guess but I didn't because as somi said you're all luccky to be playing with me )

@Seven: This bit.

Where did you get the information that the game is low PR?

I'm sure you'll figure it out, everyone else has apparently lol

From the perspective of Madge in the first quote:

There are two types of games: Normal Games (which Madge referred to as Mountainous) and Role Madness games. In the former, there are a majority of vanilla players and a few PRs. In the latter, every player has a PR.

Because Madge is not a PR, she knew we weren't in Role Madness and, therefore, in a Normal Game. I initially didn't see this as really telling as Thea did because I didn't initially understand the dichotomous perspective. In my mind, games were a gradient between Role Madness (All PRs) and Mountainous (No PRs) with any number of PRs in between.

I do think it is possible Madge knew we were in a Normal Game based on there being goons on the mafia team. However, I think it's not as likely as her simply being town due to the way she has spoken about it.

‎
Fred Town Slips

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

do mafia have daychat? it's probably in the rules which i did read ut didn't memorise.

The rules are a general ruleset with allowances for daychat but we don't even have a confirmation that there are actual scum.The rules are the vaguest on actual mechanics that I have ever seen. It's either that this game is entirely vanilla, or Adum is hiding a big stinker (wth is the name for one of those games?) (also I always phone it in until I do my in-depth analysis)

Feels faked.

The rules seem to be intentionally ambiguous, this was a valid question. If there's no night elim, I have a theory about the gamerule.

The mafia faction always has a night kill.

Not always, there are some infection-type games.

The Fred town slips are stronger because he is newer to the game. The first game he played was atypical, so he doesn't really have the foundation behind Normal Games. Like Madge, he slipped being vanilla here. Additionally, he wasn't aware that there is a mafia team and was speculating that the Dancers were rather some sort of cult faction.

Also ty for this. Fred quotes/post is something that I caught up and part of the reason I was tonereading them as innocent town so I agree. Madge one I sae allie mention it but didnt understood it so the normal game/Role madness difference is good insight there, yeah.
I can also say that compared to their D1 posts, what they are posting here just has a lot more content and direction, so at least their self meta they did in the past page seems to add up haha

[Santygrass]

Interestingly I think the fred 9ne is stronger. I could easily see madge putting something similar as a mafia goon.

But working through it.

Town
Wam
Seven
Thea

Meta town read - bessie

Town slip madge, Fred

Means scum team is Moody, JC, santy.

vote JC

Can you elaborate on the bessie meta?

[Theallieza]

Hihi , I think I only have played with Seven here, I joined this forum just to play with them again hopefully haha~
Pleasure to meet you all ! Let me know if someone is around just to chat for a bit, I did backread stuff and have some thoughts, but I am way better at getting a grasp on the game / making reads just chatting in realtime with people.

I saw that the slot I subbed in had some votes yesterday, so the people sussing there can elaborate on the reasons would help for a start. Peace Peace~

Thank you for subbing in! We are always low on subs so you being able to step in so quickly is greatly appreciated.

I have a soft spot for good subs and I like what I'm seeing from you so far. I'm sure I will come back to you as I read through in detail.

[Santygrass]

@moody: how do we know we're one miselim away from ELO? ARe we informed of ELO? I think the general rule is you allow town 2-3 miselims? and with that the case, we're on our last one?

That's based on the assumption pretty much everyone is making that we have three scum, in which case we are at 6-3, and a miselim would put us at 4-3 D4.

@Seven: Thanks for the refresher. I think I can actually see your point on Madge well enough to accept that she is more likely than not town. Fred I think was just confused about the rules (as you said, he's a newer player), and take that as NAI.

The point is, that as scum, that sort of confusion with rules is just much more unlikely to happen, so we should have to assume that the newer player is posting those stuff to appear lost on purpose, which is very rarely the case with newer players (hence the naive/innocent easy find)

[Wam]

Interestingly I think the fred 9ne is stronger. I could easily see madge putting something similar as a mafia goon.

But working through it.

Town
Wam
Seven
Thea

Meta town read - bessie

Town slip madge, Fred

Means scum team is Moody, JC, santy.

vote JC

Can you elaborate on the bessie meta?

It's hard as I'm not a player with copious notes (or any notes). But I have played on and off with bessie for many years.

But if I had to boil it down it would be town Bessie is very obviously town. Scum bessie is town by most measures but not.as obviously as town bessie. This game feels like her town meta but her scum play is always improving!

[Theallieza]

Scum team is Seven, Santy, Madge.

I say we start with Seven, but am good with either of the three.

I'm interested in hearing more details about how you came to these conclusions.

[Theallieza]

Collecting claim related stuff:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Ha, I have a guilty result on bessie.

Vote: bessie

Ha, I have a guilty result on bessie.

Vote: bessie

This is podracing

Vote: bessie

Ha, I have a guilty result on bessie.

Vote: bessie

No, you don't.

Vote: Seven

I'll answer for her to make George mad. I'm known for gambiting and this isn't one of them. And if she really thought I was gambiting, she wouldn't be voting me.

Gambit = Lying / Reaction testing right?

if so, why do you think Scum!Seven is doing that start of day? Is moreso my question.

I think Seven is looking for reactions.

And if she really thought I was gambiting, she wouldn't be voting me.

You apparently don't know what I think.

Vote: Seven

Seven, please post a full investigation list.

N2: bessie

So Seven is lying town. I'm a VT cop, N1 seven came up as vt. Night 2 Thea, came up as vt.

So.thats a town core of 3 which should be enough!

So all of this...

Wam and Seven's claims directly contradict each other. No way both can be telling the truth. I can verify Wam at least is telling the truth about his result on me. Based on this, Seven seemed to know that Wam had a result on him, and doesn't seem to be pushing back against Wam contradicting him, so I think the most likely conclusion and the most consistent with Seven's meta in particular is that Seven is lying Town.

I don't think that Wam is likely to be scum here, though I did seem him claim a clear on someone who was Town as mafia before (Stellaris, I think it was).

I don't care for bessie's reaction to this and will need to spend some time rereading her. If she is scum it has been a long while since she has snowed me so completely, but I suppose I can't rule it out.

[Santygrass]

Interestingly I think the fred 9ne is stronger. I could easily see madge putting something similar as a mafia goon.

But working through it.

Town
Wam
Seven
Thea

Meta town read - bessie

Town slip madge, Fred

Means scum team is Moody, JC, santy.

vote JC

Can you elaborate on the bessie meta?

It's hard as I'm not a player with copious notes (or any notes). But I have played on and off with bessie for many years.

But if I had to boil it down it would be town Bessie is very obviously town. Scum bessie is town by most measures but not.as obviously as town bessie. This game feels like her town meta but her scum play is always improving!

Got it, if you're able later some pointers / some posts to signalize what do you see as obvtown from bessie it would help!

Cause like, I was also townreading them when I was reading up, but just from PoE I find other people townier but you seem pretty confident on that and I want to absorb the most out of your read haha

[Santygrass]

Collecting claim related stuff:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Ha, I have a guilty result on bessie.

Vote: bessie

Ha, I have a guilty result on bessie.

Vote: bessie

This is podracing

Vote: bessie

Ha, I have a guilty result on bessie.

Vote: bessie

No, you don't.

Vote: Seven

I'll answer for her to make George mad. I'm known for gambiting and this isn't one of them. And if she really thought I was gambiting, she wouldn't be voting me.

Gambit = Lying / Reaction testing right?

if so, why do you think Scum!Seven is doing that start of day? Is moreso my question.

I think Seven is looking for reactions.

And if she really thought I was gambiting, she wouldn't be voting me.

You apparently don't know what I think.

Vote: Seven

Seven, please post a full investigation list.

N2: bessie

So Seven is lying town. I'm a VT cop, N1 seven came up as vt. Night 2 Thea, came up as vt.

So.thats a town core of 3 which should be enough!

So all of this...

Wam and Seven's claims directly contradict each other. No way both can be telling the truth. I can verify Wam at least is telling the truth about his result on me. Based on this, Seven seemed to know that Wam had a result on him, and doesn't seem to be pushing back against Wam contradicting him, so I think the most likely conclusion and the most consistent with Seven's meta in particular is that Seven is lying Town.

I don't think that Wam is likely to be scum here, though I did seem him claim a clear on someone who was Town as mafia before (Stellaris, I think it was).

I don't care for bessie's reaction to this and will need to spend some time rereading her. If she is scum it has been a long while since she has snowed me so completely, but I suppose I can't rule it out.

Seven is always lying in regards to their claim tbh. Wam checked them as VT hahah, there's not much room for anything else

[Theallieza]

Vote moody

I think there are very few scum teams at this point that don't include moody.

I think Wam should target either Santy or JC tonight, both of whom are potentially on the chopping block and both of whom have claimed VT. If Wam is NKed, I think that should still leave us with enough cleared townies to solve.

[Santygrass]

Vote moody

I think there are very few scum teams at this point that don't include moody.

I think Wam should target either Santy or JC tonight, both of whom are potentially on the chopping block and both of whom have claimed VT. If Wam is NKed, I think that should still leave us with enough cleared townies to solve.

Do you have JC unpaired with someone in particular?

[Theallieza]

Vote moody

I think there are very few scum teams at this point that don't include moody.

I think Wam should target either Santy or JC tonight, both of whom are potentially on the chopping block and both of whom have claimed VT. If Wam is NKed, I think that should still leave us with enough cleared townies to solve.

Do you have JC unpaired with someone in particular?

I don't have JC strongly unpaired with anyone except Fred and Seven but I don't think either of those players are mafia.

I have them kind of weakly unpaired with everyone because they seem kinda oblivious to everything going on, but I'm not sure that is actually alignment indicative or just how JC is.

[Santygrass]

If someone also wants to do it to sanity check me in my read, I think rereading EoD1 and do like, a gamestate check looking at wagons and how votes shifted. Because I strongly thought at the moment that there had to be a wolf being voted in the pool of {Glue/Heury/JC/Moody} , which now leaves us with Moody/JC . And to me JC felt the slot where people talked about being lhf/sussed like the other three, but less people voted, which is kinda the main reason on why they are wolf shaped to me

[Theallieza]

Is Godfather or roles that could mess with an investigative result common here or not?

Since I saw mentioned that game was non bastard I wasnt taking them into account but now questioning myself since godfather was mentioned as a possibility wowee

Not super common, but it happens and is considered non-bastard in our games.

[Theallieza]

Interestingly I think the fred 9ne is stronger. I could easily see madge putting something similar as a mafia goon.

But working through it.

Town
Wam
Seven
Thea

Meta town read - bessie

Town slip madge, Fred

Means scum team is Moody, JC, santy.

vote JC

I think the Fred slip is fairly strong. I think there's a possible world where I'm wrong about Madge. I have been vaguely worried about a bessie/Madge team. They weirdly haven't really interacted at all this game.

[Theallieza]

Current claims:
Wam (N1 - Seven VT, N2, Thea VT)
Thea - VT
Seven - N2 result on bessie
JC - VT
santy- VT

I think it would be useful to see the remaining players claim: Moody, bessie, madge, Fred.

[Theallieza]

Actually, I'd consider it essential that we get a full claim from everyone today.

[Wam]

Actually, I'd consider it essential that we get a full claim from everyone today.

Agreed